S03.E07: Goodnight Elizabeth

[jewel21]

Quote

Liz's plan does not go as expected, putting herself, Isobel and Michael in danger. Eduardo confides in Alex.

Airdate: 09/06/2021

[Katesgr811]

Not sure how I feel about this one other than I am into Nathan playing Jones.

[jewel21]

I've been really enjoying seeing Michael and Rosa interacting with one another and how she's not scared to stand up to his prickly ways. It's an interesting dynamic. 

[RachelKM]

I feel like we got some interesting information from this episode. But overall, it felt like mostly setup. 

I suspected since we first learned that Michael was the son of the dictator that Jones was that dictator.  That should make for some interesting story going forward and an interesting dynamic between Michael and Max.  Michael has always been on the outside a bit from the twins.  But now he and Max are related.  Max is, genetically speaking, Michael's biological... uncle, I guess.  I'm not sure. But a clone is essentially the same as a twin. 

I'm still enjoying the mixed character pairings, this week Michael and Rosa. It makes the show seem more ensemble and less segmented.  The last two season isolated too many characters.  Though, I'm still waiting for Alex's thread to be integrated.  I hope this March 11, 1969, plot is the start of that.

The one thing I hated was Maria, and now Kyle, being stuck in respective comas. And this was two weeks in a row with effectively no Kyle. I want Kyle back, you dicks!

[Cristofle]

I suspected this, and yet now that it happened I'm still kind of bummed because I just haven't gotten over the damage last season did to my interest in Michael. I'm not altogether surprised - who Jones IS in general was still created and decided by Carina (AKA that he is the "dictator") and of course Michael is at the center of it as a result, but I really didn't want Michael to be at the center of the Jones story. So that deflates my interest in Jones somewhat. Also, outside of the fact that Michael is my least favorite Pod Squad member and one of my least favorites of any of the main characters, I think having Jones be the ultimate Big Bad maybe blows the load a little too soon? Of course, it's entirely possible he has an overinflated sense of importance, lol, and that there are worse aliens out there. 

So that IS Max's body and Max is trapped inside of it somehow. I'm kind of confused about Max after this episode. He has to be something other than simply a straight clone of Jones - because you'd think if he were an identical genetic clone, he'd come with all the imperviousness Jones has, but Max is clearly capable of becoming very weak. Of course, Max isn't a serial killer, so maybe that's the whole thing. He hasn't killed scores of people the way Jones has. Not sure how to get around that, lol. And it's interesting that Jones wants Max's body longer term, as Liz figured out. 

A huge plot hole is that you'd think somewhere in all this DNA testing, the Pod Squad would have tested their DNA against each other. If Max is a clone of Michael's father, they should share roughly half their DNA. No one ever checked that or noticed it? Yikes, lol. This gang really ISN'T well matched against Jones so far. 

I enjoyed Rosa forgoing attempts at alien powers and just straight up shooting Jones to knock him on his ass. Basically Rosa tonight.

Jones IS still choosing to kill the most annoying people by offing Deputy Racist, but I have to think that won't last forever, lol.

I don't know how I feel about the fact that so many government people have known all along about the Pod Squad (Jesse knew they were aliens and it seems Kyle's uncle does too, down to knowing Michael is an alien and Alex is in love with him). It feels like it takes some of the urgency is taken out of the whole thing. That said, I'm glad Kyle is at least ALIVE and hopefully will be okay.

The scenes between Maria and Jones are HELLA creepy. But I kind of want to know what happened in 1969. LOL. I want Maria to fight the good fight (although she currently appears as hopelessly outmatched as the rest of them) but I also want to see. 

[tvwatchergordis]

What an episode. I finally understood how Jones is controlling Max. They probably explained it earlier but I finally got that he's in his body. I originally thought that they switched places but no. Jones took over his body.

I had a feeling that Jones was shady. His "goodness" made me uneasy. But I never expected him to be Michael's father or the Dictator. That shocked me. LOL at Jones not caring about killing his own son though. does that make Max his biological father too since he's a clone? This subject is so confusing have something like this on Superman & Lois too. Jones is smart he figured out the plan pretty fast. Jones tricicking Liz the way he did was nerve wracking. For a minute I thought he would really harm her or that Max would break thru in that last minute but no. 

Gotta say that I loved Michael's scenes with Rosa this episode & him helping her with her super hearing abilities. More scenes with them. 

😄 at Eduardo knowing Alex is in love with Michael. Everyone knows how they feel about each other except them. The creation of Dark Sky was interesting so it was to contrast what Jesse Manes(& the Manes) were doing with the aliens. 

What can Maria know that Jones wants so badly? I guess we'll find out in the next episode. 

 

 

[Cristofle]

It seems like they are going to have to majorly weaken Jones in order for Max to break through to the surface, and the pickle is how do they do that when nothing they know about aliens so far has done much of anything to Jones and he's more than willing to keep killing people to keep his strength.

I forgot to say - Liz punching Jones was HILARIOUS, because Jeanine is so much shorter than Nathan. She seemed to have to stand on her tiptoes and STILL punch way up. 

Edited September 7, 2021 by Cristofle

[Lady Calypso]

Well, the reveal of Jones being Michael's father wasn't surprising to me. There were theories right from the start of the season that Jones was likely the dictator, so it was only a matter of time before Michael found out. I actually do like this plot for Michael, as well as Michael helping out Rosa. He's finally getting good stuff not centered around a love triangle, so I'll take whatever I can get. It'll be interesting to see how that affects the three Pod Squad members going forward.

Michael/Rosa is a great pair. I'm so happy they're actually utilizing the cast this season and not separating them. Rosa has barely interacted with half the cast, so I love them mixing it up. And I really am enjoying Rosa this season. Hell, she even got to interact with a new character! Rosa's path for this season is MUCH better now that Racist Wyatt Long has been written out. 

Poor Maria and Kyle. Both in comas, both for different reasons, and we don't even know WHAT kind of coma Kyle is in, just that he was injected with something.

Eduardo and Alex's scenes were ok but Alex needs to get back to the ensemble of it all, or at least have Kyle wake up so he has a main character as his scene partner again. 

Liz has been pretty good since her return to Roswell. She got to confront Jones and even though he figured it out very quickly, I enjoyed watching her try. It was very obvious he figured it out, though.

 

[RachelKM]

Hey, it just occurred to me that Michael is going to have to accept that DNA is not determinative. He was waxing all emo over being the dictator's son.  But Max is his clone and isn't a complete sociopath. So Michael has lost his "I was born bad" bullshit excuse. He's going to have to accept that if he's a douche, it's his choices that make him a douche, not his DNA.

4 hours ago, Cristofle said:

A huge plot hole is that you'd think somewhere in all this DNA testing, the Pod Squad would have tested their DNA against each other. If Max is a clone of Michael's father, they should share roughly half their DNA. No one ever checked that or noticed it? Yikes, lol. This gang really ISN'T well matched against Jones so far. 

I can accept this.  It's impressive enough that Liz identified three strands of DNA.  But, with only four samples - Liz, Michael, Max, and Noah - it would be hard to establish what about their DNA is familial.  And that is assuming they compared Noah, Max, and Michael to see how similar Max and Michael were as opposed to Noah and that their DNA functions operates like human DNA. 

[Cristofle]

4 minutes ago, RachelKM said:

Hey, it just occurred to me that Michael is going to have to accept that DNA is not determinative. He was waxing all emo over being the dictator's son.  But Max is his clone and isn't a complete sociopath. So Michael has lost his "I was born bad" bullshit excuse. He's going to have to accept that if he's a douche, it's his choices that make him a douche, not his DNA.

I wish I believed this, rather than this is going to make Michael MORE emo and whiny about his lineage, but I have no faith in that. It's not like he's improved on that front this season. He's more likely to completely blow past the implications for Max and focus entirely on how this makes him feel about himself, lol.

Re: the DNA, it is possible that familial DNA doesn't work the same way, but it seems more likely that they never...even tried? Like, you'd think that after they realized that Max and Isobel were not siblings as assumed (unless they are related - lots of spec going around that Isobel saying Jones feels like family means she's in on the alien relation train too and perhaps Louise was Jones' sister) that they would have at least tried to figure out if any of them were related. Maybe they did and maybe it just doesn't show up the same way (or Liz doesn't understand what to look for since for all her alien scientist boasting, there is likely a WHOLE lot she doesn't understand about alien genetics) but if they just never tried and it's perfectly noticeable once they do, awkward. 

[peachmangosteen]

I didn't see theories about Jones being the dictator/Michael's dad so that actually surprised me. I am interested to see where it goes.

I hope somehow Kyle and Maria can like linkup in their minds or something lol

Alex is so superfluous. They really need to get him back in the orbit of the others or get rid of him imo.

[Cristofle]

It was a mistake to keep Alex so isolated from the rest of the cast (a couple brief scenes with Michael and Liz aside) for this long into the season. The rest of the gang should be clued into what is going on with Deep Sky. It was interesting at first, and last night made it somewhat interesting again because the information was linked to the past, but in general, I've started to feel about Deep Sky like it's maybe two steps above Liz's California research. It IS at least centered on alien lore, so it's not entirely the same, but it's so isolating and that makes it less impactful. I am hoping now that Alex is aware that a government entity knows who Michael is (even if he's Kyle's uncle) he will clue Michael in and that will move him forward. 

So Liz seemed to think that some part of Max could hear her. Interesting, but I kind of hope not? :/ It seems awful if Max is entirely aware of what Jones is doing, and has to watch as Jones just goes on a killing spree using his body. Isobel was not conscious while Noah was using her as a meat puppet, and I kind of hope Max isn't either because if he is, that's REAL dark on a level I don't think this show is willing to accept or embrace. 

[shapeshifter]

The opening expository dialog was duller than dirt.

But then LOL Holy Star Wars Bat Kids! when Jones said "Hello, son" to Michael.

So, 1969? Will there be hippies? 

 

10 hours ago, RachelKM said:

Max is, genetically speaking, Michael's biological... uncle, I guess.  I'm not sure. But a clone is essentially the same as a twin. 

What are the odds that when Max re-emerges the first thing he hears is Michael saying, "How're you feeling, Uncle Max?"
Or maybe "Cousin Max."

 

 

[RachelKM]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

What are the odds that when Max re-emerges the first thing he hears is Michael saying, "How're you feeling, Uncle Max?"
Or maybe "Cousin Max."

 Michael is all about the drama.  I'm expecting a "Welcome back, Dad."

[jqdeco]

Really good episode. I agree with everyone that has said this season is better then last season.  I am loving Jones and kudos to Nathan Dean. He must be having a ball with playing Jones.  I am also loving Rosa the last few episodes.  Loved her showing up with a gun. To bad it didn’t slow down Jones.  

[ellieart]

11 hours ago, Cristofle said:

Re: the DNA, it is possible that familial DNA doesn't work the same way, but it seems more likely that they never...even tried? Like, you'd think that after they realized that Max and Isobel were not siblings as assumed (unless they are related - lots of spec going around that Isobel saying Jones feels like family means she's in on the alien relation train too and perhaps Louise was Jones' sister) that they would have at least tried to figure out if any of them were related. Maybe they did and maybe it just doesn't show up the same way (or Liz doesn't understand what to look for since for all her alien scientist boasting, there is likely a WHOLE lot she doesn't understand about alien genetics) but if they just never tried and it's perfectly noticeable once they do, awkward. 

The only thing I can think about: if the trio ends up being related in one way or another, how will Michael and Maria feel about dating/sexing each other 😂

[tennisgurl]

I agree with everyone that I really like the amount of mixing of characters this season has been really great, with us getting a lot of surprisingly good scenes between Rosa and Michael this week. It feels a lot more like an ensemble show this season instead of it being a bunch of subplots that are loosely tied together by geographical location. This episode felt more like set up for some bigger things to happen soon, but I still liked it, this season in general has been pretty strong, especially compared to last season.

Nathan is just having a grand old time playing Jones, and while I do miss Max I am excited to watch him pet Lucky and cackle maniacally for a awhile longer. I suspected that he might be the dictator which does certainly explain some things, and this will of course lead to one of this shows favorite things...Michael angst. Especially now that this means Max is his...father? Uncle? Clone cousin? It has always felt weird to me how many assumptions the Pod Squad have made about their bio relationships, like assuming that Isobel and Max must be twins because they were in a pod together, turns out they were super wrong about pretty much everything. 

So is Max still conscious inside of his body while Jonas is controlling him? Isobel mostly just blacked out when she was being controlled, which was also super messed up but watching your body doing horrible things and being unable to do anything about it seems to be even more terrible. Poor Max, he should really take a few personal days after this. 

I miss Kyle, although at least now we know what's going on with him and that he will hopefully be alright. At least his uncle seems like he is "only" morally grey and not fully evil and is trying to help him, even if he's stuck in a coma. I am there with Alex on missing Kyle's pep talks, this show is desperately missing its resident voice of reason. This is just a whole mess, Maria and Kyle are both in coma's, Max is processed, and the alien dictator possessing him just laughed off everyone's attempts to stop him. At least Liz got a good hit in and Rosa got to shoot him, and Maria is still holding strong with whatever he is trying to find...or now anyway. 

Does everyone know about the aliens? Is there a newsletter that none of the main characters get? Hopefully Alex tells everyone what is going on soon with Dark Sky and especially with Kyle. Alex's subplot felt the most disconnected from the rest of the show, but I did like him talking to Kyle and missing him and his Kyle speeches. Same Alex, same.  

[shapeshifter]

12 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Does everyone know about the aliens?

As they said it back on OG Roswell: "Welcome to the ever-burgeoning 'I know an alien' club."

Edited September 8, 2021 by shapeshifter

[AnimeMania]

Roswell, New Mexico's Maria Seizes Control With Her Directorial Debut

Maria DeLuca (Heather Hemmens) gives interview about directing this episode.

[Cristofle]

22 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Especially now that this means Max is his...father?

Biologically, their DNA would appear to be parent and child. So that's weird. LOL. It's a weird connection, because of course Max isn't his father, but he has identical DNA to his father.

I want to feel sorry for Michael that Jones at least gives every impression that he could not be less interested or concerned if Michael lives or dies, but for some reason I'm just finding it funny. Every step of the way, he's seemed less interested in Michael than Max OR Isobel. I have to think he's more invested than he appears, but on the surface, he's about a half step from needing Michael to wear a name tag to remember who he is. 

Of course, I was also laughing at him gleefully revealing all of Max's lovesick secrets. Poor Max. First the letter in S1 and now this episode. He's about to ASK to be put back in the pod when he comes to the surface, lol. 

[KittenPokerCheater]

I'm sorry, the big pink glowy penis/sword is just too over the top.  I'd have more respect if Jones used the Famous Hand Print of Death on his victims instead.

I liked Michael this episode but I do miss some of his angst and snark.  But on someone else, not Alex (who deserves so, so much better).

I missed Kyle like candy.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

I'm sorry, the big pink glowy penis/sword is just too over the top.  I'd have more respect if Jones used the Famous Hand Print of Death on his victims instead.

I liked Michael this episode but I do miss some of his angst and snark.  But on someone else, not Alex (who deserves so, so much better).

I missed Kyle like candy.

If I get down on one knee, can I marry this post? 

LOL. Not any more over dramatic that these damn scripts, am I right?

[BiAnCa1412]

Hi everyone! It's been a while since I've watched the episode, but upon rewatching, i've noticed that maria's lipcolor is amazing. Does anybody know what product that might be?