S11.E02: Acheron: Part 2

[Mr. Sparkle]

There's so much stretching required, even on a show where dead bodies come back to life and eat people. I just sit back and watch, because otherwise it would be a boring show about farming and trying to catch rats. 

[BasilSeal]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Exactly what made Yumiko think she had "grounds for expedited entry?"

er, because her picture was on a board with the heading 'clear these people for expedited entry to the commonwealth'

[BasilSeal]

On 8/31/2021 at 12:15 AM, Persnickety1 said:

I remember the glory days when I would plan an entire watch party around every episode with a special menu and appetizers and drinks.  

Now it's worthy of maybe a few pizza rolls heated in the air fryer.  

And that would be the generic pizza rolls, not the brand name.  

I don't really get the concept that there's some sort of golden age of TWD to look back to, it's always been like this, 

 

this is a revue from the end of season 2

https://mostlyfilm.com/2012/04/11/planks-vs-zombies/

it highlights the same shortfalls we mention now, i don't think the show has got worse, it's just that the novelty has worn off and we're less forgiving, as someone else said re the appearance of the latest identikit psycho villains, 'not again'. 

[Mr. Sparkle]

15 minutes ago, BasilSeal said:

I don't really get the concept that there's some sort of golden age of TWD to look back to, it's always been like this, 

I don't think the show used to be much better, there were always flaws in logic and the need to suspend disbelief, and certainly some clunker episodes. In fact, I think it's been better in the last 2 seasons than it was in the few seasons before that. 
Personally, I just used to know a lot more people who watched it and talked about it, both on social media and irl. I recently saw somebody for the first time in a while, and he was like "please tell me you're not still watching the Walking Dead!" I just looked at him and laughed. 

15 minutes ago, BasilSeal said:

this is a revue from the end of season 2

Season 2 took a lot of crap for them being holed up on that farm and talking. I know it was because of budget reasons. 

[BasilSeal]

44 minutes ago, Superclam said:

I don't think the show used to be much better, there were always flaws in logic and the need to suspend disbelief, and certainly some clunker episodes. In fact, I think it's been better in the last 2 seasons than it was in the few seasons before that. 

Agreed, that review was written by a friend of mine and i think many of the flaws that it outlines are the same one we've been complaining about here, nothing's changed, they just got a bigger budget and a bigger cast and the show's universe has expanded, but's it's still essentially inconsistent characters doing dumb illogical things for some reason, interspersed with some visually effective set piece zombie fights and apocalypse porn. the reason people don't watch it anymore is because it's not offering anything new. I guess we're still onboard because we like this sort of thing and are prepared to tolerate it's shortcomings in order to see what happens.

Personally i thought the season where they killed ShutUpCarl was the nadir, i gave up on it then and never watched the second half of the season, i do think the subsequent seasons have been better 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Season 2 took a lot of crap for them being holed up on that farm and talking. I know it was because of budget reasons. 

I actually enjoyed Season 2 quite a bit. I liked the show more when it was a smaller world and a smaller story about a group of people trying to survive. Once they got to Alexandria and started introducing all these big communities and the cast blew up is when I started losing interest, and killing off the last remaining characters I still cared about didn't help either.

Granted the show was never perfect but it has changed in some very fundamental ways that I do not consider improvements. 

[Mr. Sparkle]

I think this sums up the whole situation:

 

[BasilSeal]

43 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Stupid characters doing stupid things in an effort to ratchet up "drama".

that's 11 years worth of the Walking Dead in one sentence, right there.

[tennisgurl]

I was really looking forward to Maggie coming back and giving Negan a long deserved kick to the balls, but I’m pretty disappointed by her story. It’s just more boring speeches and a bunch of new characters that don’t stand out from the other new characters. Say what you will about Princess, but at least I can’t mistake her for anyone else. I was pretty meh on the Commonwealth story when we got into the season and excited for Maggie, but it’s ended up reversed. I find the Commonwealth plot way more interesting than Maggie and Negan competing over who can yammer on more while red shirts drop left and right. 

[Persnickety1]

On 9/3/2021 at 11:16 AM, Superclam said:

I don't think the show used to be much better, there were always flaws in logic and the need to suspend disbelief, and certainly some clunker episodes. In fact, I think it's been better in the last 2 seasons than it was in the few seasons before that. 
Personally, I just used to know a lot more people who watched it and talked about it, both on social media and irl. I recently saw somebody for the first time in a while, and he was like "please tell me you're not still watching the Walking Dead!" I just looked at him and laughed. 

Season 2 took a lot of crap for them being holed up on that farm and talking. I know it was because of budget reasons. 

Yes.  

The ratings tell the tale.  No matter the criticism, ratings were huge, unlike the past few seasons.

So "glory days" refers to what the ratings reflect, not reviews.  Many of us looked forward each week to this show, and the ratings supported that.  

[BasilSeal]

On 9/8/2021 at 4:45 PM, Persnickety1 said:

Yes.  

The ratings tell the tale.  No matter the criticism, ratings were huge, unlike the past few seasons.

So "glory days" refers to what the ratings reflect, not reviews.  Many of us looked forward each week to this show, and the ratings supported that.  

ratings don't make a show any good, they make it a commercial success. It's clearly less popular than it was at its peak, but it's misleading to directly compare viewing figures now with 10 years ago because how people watch shows has changed. 10.3 million people watched the series finale of Breaking bad back in the day, at a time that TWD regularly pulled in over 16 million for mid season episodes that consisted mainly of Andrew Lincoln being chased round the same bit of dingy forest by a reanimated corpse. I don't think anyone would want to argue that TWD was a better written show than BB though.

People liked zombie shows and TWD did zombies *really* well, now the novelty has worn off because it's essentially doing the same thing over again but with a bigger cast and budget.

[Persnickety1]

18 hours ago, BasilSeal said:

ratings don't make a show any good, they make it a commercial success. It's clearly less popular than it was at its peak, but it's misleading to directly compare viewing figures now with 10 years ago because how people watch shows has changed. 10.3 million people watched the series finale of Breaking bad back in the day, at a time that TWD regularly pulled in over 16 million for mid season episodes that consisted mainly of Andrew Lincoln being chased round the same bit of dingy forest by a reanimated corpse. I don't think anyone would want to argue that TWD was a better written show than BB though.

People liked zombie shows and TWD did zombies *really* well, now the novelty has worn off because it's essentially doing the same thing over again but with a bigger cast and budget.

I've had two strokes and I'm not fully caffeinated yet, but I admittedly cannot wrap my brain around what point you're belaboring regarding my post about missing the "glory days" of this show and hosting watch parties.  

Honestly, I don't get why you've chosen such a benevolent comment and run with it, but to each his own.  

I shall just wish you well and hope you enjoy this season.  😂

[BasilSeal]

48 minutes ago, Persnickety1 said:

I've had two strokes and I'm not fully caffeinated yet, but I admittedly cannot wrap my brain around what point you're belaboring regarding my post about missing the "glory days" of this show and hosting watch parties.  

Honestly, I don't get why you've chosen such a benevolent comment and run with it, but to each his own.  

I shall just wish you well and hope you enjoy this season.  😂

Perhaps i misread your comment, i took it to mean that you thought earlier seasons of TWD must have been better than the current ones because they got more viewers, but anyway, it wasn't intended as snark, just  discussion.

I often hear people say they're falling out of love with the show and think it used to be better, but i wonder if we're viewing past seasons through rose coloured specs because IMO the old seasons had exactly the same failings as the current ones WRT writing, characterisation and confused themes, just with poorer production values and fewer characters. I think it's more a case of us, the viewers, becoming jaded and bored with the lack or progression. i just don't buy that there's some golden age of TWD we can hark back to and say 'if only the show was like that now' because the show has always been the same, imperfectly realised characters doing dumb things for dumb reasons spiced up with the occasional bout of "hey, look over there! Zombies! how cool is that! diversions thrown in".

but that's just my opinion, other equally valid ones are available ;)

[OoohMaggie]

25 minutes ago, BasilSeal said:

I often hear people say they're falling out of love with the show and think it used to be better, but i wonder if we're viewing past seasons through rose coloured specs

Apart from the odd episode or two I haven’t rewatched any of the previous seasons, initially I just kept putting it off but now, because it’s become so disappointing I’m afraid I would start snarking at the episodes I remember so fondly. I never used to watch through critical eyes but I’m sure there must have been plenty of “Oh! Please” moments just as there are today. 
I’ve promised myself that I will start at S1 E1 the very same night that the show officially ends, could be fantastic, could be a mind numbing ordeal 🤔

As I didn’t know any different at the time, it will be interesting to see if the departure of Frank Darabont is noticeable.  I think the rose coloured specs may tie into the days when the Walkers were genuinely scary and were central to the show, instead now they are just bit players in some contrived, silly scene full of fake danger 🙄

[BasilSeal]

8 minutes ago, OoohMaggie said:

I’ve promised myself that I will start at S1 E1 the very same night that the show officially ends, could be fantastic, could be a mind numbing ordeal 

you could always liven it up with some sort of drinking game, get some vodka and take a shot every time Shane rubs his head. see if you can make it to the end of the pilot without passing out.

[Captain Asshat]

28 minutes ago, BasilSeal said:

you could always liven it up with some sort of drinking game, get some vodka and take a shot every time Shane rubs his head. see if you can make it to the end of the pilot without passing out.

Drink every time Coral is not, in fact, in the house he was told to get into.

Edited September 10, 2021 by Captain Asshat
Forgot his true TWoP name.

[Nashville]

48 minutes ago, Captain Asshat said:

Drink every time Coral is not, in fact, in the house he was told to get into.

[Smad]

3 hours ago, OoohMaggie said:

As I didn’t know any different at the time, it will be interesting to see if the departure of Frank Darabont is noticeable.

IMO the most you notice it is with the zombies. You realize in S2 he's gone once the zombies are just dumb and slow. Imagine if they stuck with semi-smart, semi-fast zombies. We wouldn't be at the stupid we are now where zombies have to be stealth, hovering above ground, completely silent, teleporting and multiplying like the Matrix to be a danger. Or even if they just made it so that you have to knife/shoot them at a specific point. Only the brainstem is active according to Jenner, yet zombies are always taken out by stabbing/shooting the regular brain which the zombies don't even use.

[madmax]

7 hours ago, BasilSeal said:

I often hear people say they're falling out of love with the show and think it used to be better, but i wonder if we're viewing past seasons through rose coloured specs because IMO the old seasons had exactly the same failings as the current ones WRT writing, characterisation and confused themes, just with poorer production values and fewer characters. I think it's more a case of us, the viewers, becoming jaded and bored with the lack or progression. i just don't buy that there's some golden age of TWD we can hark back to and say 'if only the show was like that now' because the show has always been the same, imperfectly realised characters doing dumb things for dumb reasons spiced up with the occasional bout of "hey, look over there! Zombies! how cool is that! diversions thrown in".

but that's just my opinion, other equally valid ones are available ;)

I remember complaints even in the "glory days" of the show about contrived writing, plot armor, lame characterizations.  So it wasn't some great golden age, it was the same show as it's always been.  Either you enjoy it or not.  Take it with a grain of salt, know that there will be some awesome moments sprinkled among the mundane.  That's how I watch it.

[PurpleTentacle]

So what exactly was the problem with the dude on the other side of the door? They were standing there talking for like half an hour? What would have been the problem with opening the door, letting him in and closing the door again? Am I crazy or are the writers?

Also why do these people still bother with fighting against herds of walkers? We've established quite thuroughly last season that you can just walk and talk amoung them, as long as you aren't too loud. Just do that.

 

[PurpleTentacle]

On 9/4/2021 at 2:17 AM, BasilSeal said:

that's 11 years worth of the Walking Dead in one sentence, right there.

Hey that's not fair. Season 1 had characters being smart. Of course then AMC fired the showrunner and slashed the budget and that was that.

[CletusMusashi]

I did actually watch the season pilot, but it was a good while ago, when Amazon Prime was first airing it for free.

It was not good enough to watch a second time. Which leads to a problem, because I just caught this second one, and... I forget...

Why again were they doing that underground dungeon crawl through the zombie tunnel?

[Iguessnot]

On 1/7/2023 at 2:54 AM, CletusMusashi said:

I did actually watch the season pilot, but it was a good while ago, when Amazon Prime was first airing it for free.

It was not good enough to watch a second time. Which leads to a problem, because I just caught this second one, and... I forget...

Why again were they doing that underground dungeon crawl through the zombie tunnel?

I think they claimed it would be quicker to their destination and they were trying to avoid the bad guys on the road. HOWEVER, I remember someone saying that the latest hooligans attacked at night. So that begs the question of why our group decided to take this journey in the dead of night.