The Winchesters Anticipation

[Lastcall]

Watched one of the TVLine interviews and I'm starting to change my mind on Dean's role in the show and the trailer. Jensen said having Sam narrate was tricky because of where Dean is in the timeline. I think that means Heaven. Now I think the scenes of Dean in the trailer might not be in the show at all. The trailer throws out some big claims for Dean. He needs (not wants) to find out the true history of his parents, There ARE questions left unanswered, Dean is on a new mission and whatever that is has him looking pretty serious. So, if the Dean scenes are in the show, he is in Heaven and something is wrong that he needs to investigate before Sam gets there. However, if those scenes were only for the trailer, we could have the Heaven we saw in the finale and Dean is dropping in on friends and family to reminisce. Got to say that I will be very disappointed if they go that route after what I saw in the trailer.

[Aithne]

7 minutes ago, Lastcall said:

Watched one of the TVLine interviews and I'm starting to change my mind on Dean's role in the show and the trailer. Jensen said having Sam narrate was tricky because of where Dean is in the timeline. I think that means Heaven. Now I think the scenes of Dean in the trailer might not be in the show at all. The trailer throws out some big claims for Dean. He needs (not wants) to find out the true history of his parents, There ARE questions left unanswered, Dean is on a new mission and whatever that is has him looking pretty serious. So, if the Dean scenes are in the show, he is in Heaven and something is wrong that he needs to investigate before Sam gets there. However, if those scenes were only for the trailer, we could have the Heaven we saw in the finale and Dean is dropping in on friends and family to reminisce. Got to say that I will be very disappointed if they go that route after what I saw in the trailer.

Yeah, I'm banking on this investigation being relevant for a reason, not just out of curiosity and to reminisce. I think what would make most sense, if he's in Heaven, is that he has to prevent something from befalling the last members of their line (Sam and Dean the Younger), and the key is in a hunt his parents went on, but perhaps don't remember. He needs to figure out what happened before he can save Sam and DtY. 

[Nick24]

7 minutes ago, Lastcall said:

Watched one of the TVLine interviews and I'm starting to change my mind on Dean's role in the show and the trailer. Jensen said having Sam narrate was tricky because of where Dean is in the timeline. I think that means Heaven. Now I think the scenes of Dean in the trailer might not be in the show at all. The trailer throws out some big claims for Dean. He needs (not wants) to find out the true history of his parents, There ARE questions left unanswered, Dean is on a new mission and whatever that is has him looking pretty serious. So, if the Dean scenes are in the show, he is in Heaven and something is wrong that he needs to investigate before Sam gets there. However, if those scenes were only for the trailer, we could have the Heaven we saw in the finale and Dean is dropping in on friends and family to reminisce. Got to say that I will be very disappointed if they go that route after what I saw in the trailer.

There is one issue with Dean being in Heaven. Why couldn't he just go to Mary and John and ask them? Or why did he decide to go on that mission alone without Mary/John? Or why does Heaven look so dark? Hm, maybe there are weather issues in Heaven too. *

* Just in case, I am not complaining, just wondering :)

[ahrtee]

Here's an interesting (to me) thought:  when someone is mind-wiped (or if the world is reset, like Balthazar did during the Titanic episode), do the people impacted remember all the different timelines once they get to heaven?  That is, maybe Dean *can't* ask John and Mary because all they remember is how their lives eventually played out, and everything before was wiped out.  So, if there's some danger from before that, Dean has to go back in time to see how things were *before* they were changed.  Remember that they only remembered what happened in the past because the angels (Cas or others) *wanted* them to remember, just like they never found out how many times they'd been in heaven before DSOTM.  Of course, Ash remembered, but I can assume that heaven is outside of time.  Or...my head is starting to hurt.  

We never did get an answer if mind wipes affect more than just the people involved, as in the fallout?...like the dead doctor in Lisa's living room, John's boss with his eyes burned out which apparently never happened, or why people thought Samuel had a heart attack?  So maybe those so-called mind wipes were more of a time reset for the whole world, or at least that part that relates to Winchesters (which I guess could play into Chuck's "rewriting.")  Now my head *really* hurts.

[Aithne]

Ahhh, resetting time a la Balthazar. Now there's one I hadn't thought of, but it fits very nicely - they are on a hunt and something throws them back to the very beginning, before they met, and things play out the way they do in our timeline.

[Lastcall]

If Dean's part of the trailer is in the pilot, then the trailer shows Dean is the Now story. Jared said he thinks there was 5 years between 5x19 and 5x20. If this is between those two episodes then the timeline shouldn't be "tricky" for Sam to narrate some of the story. If it's in Heaven, then there is way more going on then the beautiful relaxing one song ride to meet Sammy we saw in the Finale. 

That's why I'm slightly worried the Dean scene in the trailer was strictly to get fans to watch the pilot. I do think Jensen and Robbie realize the backlash they would get after getting everyone excited to see Dean again even for a minute or two. 

[Nick24]

19 minutes ago, Lastcall said:

 Jared said he thinks there was 5 years between 5x19 and 5x20. 

Personally, I am not buying it at all. If there were 5 years, they would've showed it on screen like they always did before even with 2-weeks-time-jumps. Singer isn't a good director imo, but even he imo wouldn't have forgotten that little detail

[Hana Chan]

23 hours ago, Aithne said:

John is a good person who got real messed up by his circumstances, and that's the tragedy of him as a father. It loses some resonance if he was never a decent person to start with. 

John was always presented on the show as a complex and tragic character and the show has spelled out very heavily that the overwhelming majority of his bad actions were a result of unresolved trauma over Mary's death. Not that their marriage was perfect (as no marriage is) but he genuinely loved his wife and losing her so abruptly and violently destroyed him. He went from a loving family man to being obsessive, a control freak and forcing both his sons to become soldiers (both to help in avenging their mother and to protect them from what he now knew was out there).

I was out of the country so I just caught the trailer and while I was very dubious and unenthusiastic about the premise, I wanted to give it a chance because I do love SPN so much. But holy smokes... this was terrible. If a trailer is supposed to give you the feel of a show and reel you in, this failed miserably. The production values are awful and cheap looking. Very little of the costuming looks like it belongs in that era, which had a very clear and distinct style. The effects and monsters looked terrible. I won't go into the cast and how the actress playing Mary doesn't look like she could fight her way out of a tea party let alone become the figure that we knew in the original series, but don't get me started on the ridiculous "meet cute" moment that ended up with badass hunter Mary punched in the face multiple times. I get that CM is a new production company that wouldn't have a huge budget for the show right off, but even given that it looks cheaply made. The original series didn't have a big budget for its first season and managed to create a compelling atmosphere and (for the most part) good storylines. Rather than SPN, it feels like the only that it's missing here is a talking dog. All the action is cartoony and over the top.

And for all the BS that Jensen wasn't going to have much (if any) of a physical role (in order to tamp down the controversy of Jared being shut out of the show), seeing him on the screen did anger me a little bit. This isn't just him narrating the show as has been argued before we saw the trailer, but him having an active physical presence. My guess is that the network balked at not having the original characters there in some way to link the spinoff to the original (since the show itself can't manage that on it's own) and Jensen will have to have at least some kind of an on-screen presence. Which just rubs salt in the wounds of those who believe that the SPN legacy belongs to both him and Jared. Dean wasn't SPN on his own and making this all about him wanting to learn about the parents that he grew up knowing makes zero sense (especially given that Sam never knew his mother under her resurrection and never knew John prior to losing Mary).  Sam wanting to know more about his parents would make more sense, but this is Jensen's vanity project so we can't have that.

This is just a mess on every level.

[Hana Chan]

On 5/20/2022 at 3:18 PM, Aithne said:

The show will do fine.

That remains to be seen. It has some serious challenges in that it needs to find an audience with two groups. The first, the original SPN fans where many are openly rejecting it already. They're not enthusiastic about the concept and a lot of the comments on YouTube have been pretty savage (and no, they're not just from bitter JP fans the way it's been implied by some). Failing getting a majority of SPN fans to stick around, it needs to find an audience with those who might never have seen the original series and that, IMO, my be steeper hill to climb. TW needs to both being linked to the original series while also being able to stand on its own.

On 5/20/2022 at 2:09 PM, Nick24 said:

I don’t get, why so many people are worried about SPN canon and so mad at Jensen and Robbie.

Very simple... because SPN was what it was because of both Sam and Dean as characters and Jared and Jensen as actors. Jensen latching onto the legacy for himself did anger a lot of people, though I will argue that after seeing that dumpster fire of a trailer, most JP fans are thrilled that he's not going to have anything to do with it. Trust me... we're happy with how Walker is playing out and that Independence looks pretty fantastic (and doing what a spin off should  -  have a link to the primary series while still being original and able to tell its own story).

[Nick24]

49 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

Which just rubs salt in the wounds of those who believe that the SPN legacy belongs to both him and Jared. Dean wasn't SPN on his own and making this all about him wanting to learn about the parents that he grew up knowing makes zero sense (especially given that Sam never knew his mother under her resurrection and never knew John prior to losing Mary).  Sam wanting to know more about his parents would make more sense, but this is Jensen's vanity project so we can't have that.

This is just a mess on every level.

JP already himself showed total disrespect to SPN legacy with his praising Dabb's/Singer's finale, because that finale was insulting for both of the characters. Then he showed unbelievable level of disrespect to Dean/JA with his comment [link below]. 

Quote

It was a success story — it was Dean’s success story.....[Dean] ultimately gave his life to have his No. 1 on the planet live as normal a life as possible

Don't get me started on his comments to Robbie Thompson on Twitter

The fact, that JP was one of the leads doesn't mean that JA/RT/the CW have to go ask permission from JP. I doubt that JP asked permission from Chuck Norris to make a Walker reboot, which imo they were propping up in SPN series finale. My apologies if he did ask.

Link:

https://variety.com/2021/tv/features/jared-padalecki-supernatural-walker-defining-deaths-1234852596/

Feel free to disagree

Edited May 24, 2022 by Nick24

[Nick24]

40 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

Dean wasn't SPN on his own and making this all about him

Then why all of a sudden it didn't stop Dabb/Singer from making the finale all about Sam? Or Sera Gamble from making her seasons all about Sam?

Again, feel free to disagree

41 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

Which just rubs salt in the wounds of those who believe that the SPN legacy belongs to both him and Jared.

There is no SPN legacy after Dabb/Singer and Co. totally destroyed it.

Once again, feel free to disagree.

Edited May 24, 2022 by Nick24

[hypnotoad]

Supernatural was about Sam and Dean. Both of them.

No I don't think anyone needed to ask JP's permission to make a prequel but I can understand (somewhat) why fans get up in arms over this stuff. I'm sorry but if JP had announced a prequel that was about Sam searching for the truth about their parents and that JP was narrating it with no mention of Dean or JA, do you really believe the Dean/JA faction would have been happy? Come on. I certainly don't think JA would have thrown a hissy fit on twitter like JP but I fully believe the Dean/JA fans would have.

Quote

Then why all of a sudden it didn't stop Dabb/Singer from making the finale all about Sam? Or Sera Gamble from making her seasons all about Sam?

Over the course of 15 seasons, there were plenty of Dean centric seasons and storylines as well as Sam centric seasons and storylines.

Quote

JP already himself showed total disrespect to SPN legacy with his praising Dabb's/Singer's finale

So his praise of the finale negates his 15 seasons on the show? I will respectfully disagree with that. He either said he liked the finale to be politically correct to his bosses or he really liked it and maybe that just proves he doesn't have good taste in writing. I hated the finale. Actually to be more specific I really hated the last 2 seasons.

I didn't think much of the prequel trailer but at the same time I never thought the world need a walker texas ranger reboot - so what do I know?

[tessathereaper]

What don't people get?  This is NOT SPN, this is The Winchesters, set in the SPN Universe.  It's not SPN season 16 or SPN Season 0. 

Dean was his own person too.  SPN was Dean and Sam's story. But Dean's allowed to exist outside and do things without Sam. 

The Winchesters is John and Mary's story, with a touch of the future involved in the presence of Dean and whatever mystery he is trying to solve.  There is no reason Sam needs to be involved in this though I suspect he may have something to do with the over all story but his presence isn't necessarily needed.  It's a prequel taking place before either of them are born.

[Nick24]

33 minutes ago, hypnotoad said:

Over the course of 15 seasons, there were plenty of Dean centric seasons and storylines as well as Sam centric seasons and storylines.

Taking to the writers thread

2 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

Dean was his own person too.  But Dean's allowed to exist outside and do things without Sam. 

I wanna like it more than 100000x

Edited May 24, 2022 by Nick24

[Aeryn13]

1 hour ago, Hana Chan said:

That remains to be seen. It has some serious challenges in that it needs to find an audience with two groups. The first, the original SPN fans where many are openly rejecting it already. They're not enthusiastic about the concept and a lot of the comments on YouTube have been pretty savage (and no, they're not just from bitter JP fans the way it's been implied by some). Failing getting a majority of SPN fans to stick around, it needs to find an audience with those who might never have seen the original series and that, IMO, my be steeper hill to climb. TW needs to both being linked to the original series while also being able to stand on its own.

Very simple... because SPN was what it was because of both Sam and Dean as characters and Jared and Jensen as actors. Jensen latching onto the legacy for himself did anger a lot of people, though I will argue that after seeing that dumpster fire of a trailer, most JP fans are thrilled that he's not going to have anything to do with it. Trust me... we're happy with how Walker is playing out and that Independence looks pretty fantastic (and doing what a spin off should  -  have a link to the primary series while still being original and able to tell its own story).

Jensen aquired the necessary rights and made it into a project. JP has no claim on that project. If he wanted one  he could have made one himself. Instead he made his own vanity vehicle which is doing fine for the CW. I don't see why the two of them can't go their separate ways. And everyone can ignore the show they have no interest in. Never watched a second of Walker and if I don't like the Winchesters after 1 or 2 eps, I wouldn't keep watching it either. Unlikely I'll touch SPN itself ever again either after its dreadful ending.  

[ahrtee]

Hmmm....Maybe Dean in heaven learns that history has been changed, and that Sam was never born.    

Dean would be spending his time trying to figure out how things were changed and fix them so that Sam will be born.  That would give the story the importance and urgency that the trailer is indicating, plus keep Sam in mind. 

Sam will be the focus of the story, even if he's not physically there.  Would that make people happier?

Frankly, I don't understand so much anger and bitterness about something we know nothing about.  Nobody has said that Sam would be completely ignored or denied.  I can't imagine a Dean story without at least mentioning Sam. 

If you're angry that Jared isn't involved, don't watch.  You don't have to trash something that hasn't happened yet.  

Edited May 24, 2022 by ahrtee
Additional thoughts.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, tessathereaper said:

What don't people get?  This is NOT SPN, this is The Winchesters, set in the SPN Universe.  It's not SPN season 16 or SPN Season 0. 

Louder, for the people in the back.

3 hours ago, Hana Chan said:

The production values are awful and cheap looking.

I stopped reading right after this.

[Lastcall]

I get why Sam fans are so upset that he isn't on the show yet because I was mad at how badly Dean was treated under Dabb for the last four seasons. JP has stated repeatedly that he loved the finale and it's his favorite episode. JA obviously still has something he needs to say about Dean and wants to show John and Mary aren't the monsters some fans think they are. 

I had no expectations for this show before the trailer. I figured Dean would narrate similar to Sheldon in Young Sheldon or maybe a point of view telling stories to people in the roadhouse like How I met your Mother. My big fear was it would be the Mary show and John would be the damsel in distress. This trailer changed all that. This is the John I want to see and the thought that Dean is not only on screen but has a story makes me very hopeful for this show. 

I understand all the negativity but getting anything at all is a minor miracle. At the very least, I'm happy that Andrew Dabb does not get to have the last word on Supernatural. Jensen getting an opportunity to make a final statement on Dean Winchester is a good thing and that's great for Dean fans too. Unfortunately, that might not be enough to keep the show going. 

[goyour-own-way]

As far as production values, I'm no expert but I did think the demon getting thrown by the van looked pretty bad, and the costuming for Mary looks more '90s than '70s. Other than that, I didn't have any problems. And the amber hue is an interesting choice  as contrast to SPN's blue/gray color scheme, I like it. 

[Hana Chan]

40 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Instead he made his own vanity vehicle which is doing fine for the CW.

Walker is hardly a "vanity vehicle". The one thing I will agree with is that it's doing well on the CW - well enough that they greenlit a spinoff where Jared will not be appearing. That to me speaks highly of how strong WI is and that Jared and the network believe that it will be able to stand on its own as a series and not need Jared to bridge the two. WI will focus on Walker's ancestor but it doesn't require anyone to watch Walker in order to understand and enjoy it. We won't have Jared's character researching his family history to try to understand the feud between his and their rivals. The shows are linked, but not so much that one can't just watch one and enjoy it. 

TW isn't like that. I don't see that it's going to have much appeal outside of the SPN audience, though the feel that I got from the trailer feels like they're trying to pull in a younger audience because it has more of a teen show feel. Spin offs are hard to get right and many of them pale badly in comparison to the show they were based on. The ones that fail, like "The Lone Gunmen" (X-Files) usually do because they cannot stand on their own while the ones that succeed do. 

27 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

If you're angry that Jared isn't involved, don't watch. 

And I won't be. I wanted to give it a chance because I do like Jensen and I love SPN but this looks awful. And Jared/Sam not only not being involved but openly shut out in order for Jensen to film his SPN fanfiction was going to set off a segment of the SPN fandom. Like it or not, Jared and Sam do have fans and they've generally been a lot more generous to Jensen and his projects than I've seen returned by many of Jensen's fans. 

[gonzosgirrl]

Of course they are going to 'use' Dean/Jensen for the pilot - he has the history, the recognition and the fanbase to draw people in for a look. I doubt we will see him in every episode, even though we'll hear him. I'm okay with that.

[gonzosgirrl]

4 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

Like it or not, Jared and Sam do have fans and they've generally been a lot more generous to Jensen and his projects than I've seen returned by many of Jensen's fans. 

I don't know what social media you look at, but this, IMO, is patently untrue. The vast majority of Jensen  fans just ignore Jared's existence. The fans hating on Jensen and The Winchesters actively seek out any mention of him/it and trash it.

[Aeryn13]

7 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

Walker is hardly a "vanity vehicle". The one thing I will agree with is that it's doing well on the CW - well enough that they greenlit a spinoff where Jared will not be appearing. That to me speaks highly of how strong WI is and that Jared and the network believe that it will be able to stand on its own as a series and not need Jared to bridge the two. WI will focus on Walker's ancestor but it doesn't require anyone to watch Walker in order to understand and enjoy it. We won't have Jared's character researching his family history to try to understand the feud between his and their rivals. The shows are linked, but not so much that one can't just watch one and enjoy it. 

TW isn't like that. I don't see that it's going to have much appeal outside of the SPN audience, though the feel that I got from the trailer feels like they're trying to pull in a younger audience because it has more of a teen show feel. Spin offs are hard to get right and many of them pale badly in comparison to the show they were based on. The ones that fail, like "The Lone Gunmen" (X-Files) usually do because they cannot stand on their own while the ones that succeed do. 

And I won't be. I wanted to give it a chance because I do like Jensen and I love SPN but this looks awful. And Jared/Sam not only not being involved but openly shut out in order for Jensen to film his SPN fanfiction was going to set off a segment of the SPN fandom. Like it or not, Jared and Sam do have fans and they've generally been a lot more generous to Jensen and his projects than I've seen returned by many of Jensen's fans. 

Disagree on what Walker is and absolutely on the respective generousness of fan groups, not remotely has that support been there. Which frankly would be fine by me if everyone would just ignore the respective other and their projects.

JP got Sam fanfic filmed when all is said and done with SPN. If that is still not enough, I can't help it. I honestly wouldn’t need Jensen or Dean's participation either in the spin-off as it will sink or swim on its own premise. Though I can understand the buisness decision to do otherwise. Likely just for the Pilot, I reckon.

[Nick24]

24 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

And I won't be. I wanted to give it a chance because I do like Jensen and I love SPN but this looks awful. And Jared/Sam not only not being involved but openly shut out in order for Jensen to film his SPN fanfiction was going to set off a segment of the SPN fandom. Like it or not, Jared and Sam do have fans and they've generally been a lot more generous to Jensen and his projects than I've seen returned by many of Jensen's fans. 

How can you claim that, if you haven't seen that prequel yet and you are not going to? Sam might take a part of that story even if JP doesn't participate. You do not know that.

24 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

And I won't be. I wanted to give it a chance because I do like Jensen and I love SPN but this looks awful. And Jared/Sam not only not being involved but openly shut out in order for Jensen to film his SPN fanfiction was going to set off a segment of the SPN fandom. Like it or not, Jared and Sam do have fans and they've generally been a lot more generous to Jensen and his projects than I've seen returned by many of Jensen's fans. 

SPN became total fanfiction when Dabb and Berens wrote Red Meat in s11

Edited May 24, 2022 by Nick24

[Hana Chan]

3 minutes ago, Lastcall said:

JA obviously still has something he needs to say about Dean and wants to show John and Mary aren't the monsters some fans think they are. 

The problem I have with focusing on them at such a relatively young age and retconning John's understanding of the supernatural world. It's easy to like characters before they're broken and damaged. John was clearly a wonderful and kind man before Mary died and we know that losing her under the circumstances that he did turned him into the obsessive and bitter man that we met in season one. Maybe a more interesting premise, if the point was to understand his parents would have been for Dean/Jensen to explore the immediate years after Mary's death and see John slowly learn about what was happening in the world around him. That would make a lot more sense and fit in better with the canon.

And I'm sorry, but I fail to see how TW will do anything to address the problems that Jensen's fans (and in their opinion, Jensen himself) had with the finale. It won't change anything about Dean's story. Maybe another option would have been to focus on Dean's namesake as he learns more about his family history and the uncle that he was named for. But then, that might deprive Jensen of the opportunity to do his Dean cosplay and his fans to act as his he and only he was SPN.

[Aeryn13]

8 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

The problem I have with focusing on them at such a relatively young age and retconning John's understanding of the supernatural world. It's easy to like characters before they're broken and damaged. John was clearly a wonderful and kind man before Mary died and we know that losing her under the circumstances that he did turned him into the obsessive and bitter man that we met in season one. Maybe a more interesting premise, if the point was to understand his parents would have been for Dean/Jensen to explore the immediate years after Mary's death and see John slowly learn about what was happening in the world around him. That would make a lot more sense and fit in better with the canon.

And I'm sorry, but I fail to see how TW will do anything to address the problems that Jensen's fans (and in their opinion, Jensen himself) had with the finale. It won't change anything about Dean's story. Maybe another option would have been to focus on Dean's namesake as he learns more about his family history and the uncle that he was named for. But then, that might deprive Jensen of the opportunity to do his Dean cosplay and his fans to act as his he and only he was SPN.

Yeah sure, add salt to the wound by making a show about Sam's son and legacy ONLY. Added bonus in having a Dean Winchester that now has bubkis to do with Dean Winchester. You seriously think Dean fans would be the ones that brings joy to? Have another Sam 2.0 show? That would be the single worst project I could imagine.

Edited May 24, 2022 by Aeryn13

[Nick24]

14 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

Maybe another option would have been to focus on Dean's namesake as he learns more about his family history and the uncle that he was named for. But then, that might deprive Jensen of the opportunity to do his Dean cosplay and his fans to act as his he and only he was SPN.

Sure. Apparently we haven't caught up with Dabb's crap. We need to carry on his character and throw Mr Dabb money for using his pet.

[goyour-own-way]

16 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

But then, that might deprive Jensen of the opportunity to do his Dean cosplay and his fans to act as his he and only he was SPN.

That's pretty insulting. Jensen IS Dean, just like Jared is Sam. Neither one of them can "cosplay" as their own characters on a TV show. (I also don't think Walker is Jared's vanity project, just his next project post-SPN, not my cup of tea but I'm not going to complain under every post about it on Twitter either)

And it's funny that you're claiming Jensen fans are acting like he and only he was SPN because from what I've seen, we're all assuming Jared will have some part to play in the prequel eventually. I wouldn't be surprised. He is not being excluded from anything, that drama is a year old and has been explained and dealt with by J2. I don't know why some people can't let it go. 

Edited May 24, 2022 by goyour-own-way
Spelling error

[goyour-own-way]

19 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

The problem I have with focusing on them at such a relatively young age and retconning John's understanding of the supernatural world. It's easy to like characters before they're broken and damaged. John was clearly a wonderful and kind man before Mary died and we know that losing her under the circumstances that he did turned him into the obsessive and bitter man that we met in season one. Maybe a more interesting premise, if the point was to understand his parents would have been for Dean/Jensen to explore the immediate years after Mary's death and see John slowly learn about what was happening in the world around him. That would make a lot more sense and fit in better with the canon.

I have always wanted a prequel showing John learning the ropes and raising the boys (if only it could've been done back when JDM was available). But I also think it  would be a hard sell, even more than The Winchesters, for the fandom. The biggest reason being Dean and Sam would be recast, and J2 was lightning in a bottle, I don't know if I could ever follow along with another 2 actors in those roles. 

[Nick24]

28 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

And I'm sorry, but I fail to see how TW will do anything to address the problems that Jensen's fans (and in their opinion, Jensen himself) had with the finale. It won't change anything about Dean's story. 

It can change this in the hands of good writers/producers. This applies to Jensen Ackles and Robbie Thompson

Edited May 24, 2022 by Nick24

[ahrtee]

32 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

And I'm sorry, but I fail to see how TW will do anything to address the problems that Jensen's fans (and in their opinion, Jensen himself) had with the finale. It won't change anything about Dean's story.

We won't know what it'll be like till we actually see what they do.  (There's always the butterfly effect.)  And those who boycott the show just on general principles won't find out at all (unless they read about it in SM).  

[Nick24]

43 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

 That would make a lot more sense and fit in better with the canon.

And still people keep talking about some mysterious canon

[gonzosgirrl]

53 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

But then, that might deprive Jensen of the opportunity to do his Dean cosplay

This right here? Is a prime example of the disrespect shown Jensen by Jared stans. Reducing him to 'cosplay' of a character he embodied for 15 years of his life, who he's shown nothing but respect for? Is just plain nasty. And Jensen has been nothing but supportive of the show, its legacy, and of Jared and Sam and the brothers. Always. If Jared was any kind of decent friend, he would call off his hordes in no uncertain terms and let these people (99.9% of whom AREN'T JENSEN) make their show and earn a living. But that would require giving up the victimhood his fandom revels in.

Edited May 24, 2022 by gonzosgirrl

[goyour-own-way]

Jared did speak on the Twitter drama a bit today on Michael Rosenbaum’s podcast. Any JP stans who continue to attack Jensen need to understand they’re doing it for themselves, not Jared. 

[gonzosgirrl]

That's a start. Unfortunately, it is too mild and will fall on deaf ears.

And it's literally the least he could say after a year of letting his fandom trash his 'brother' relentlessly.

[goyour-own-way]

Just now, gonzosgirrl said:

That's a start. Unfortunately, it is too mild and will fall on deaf ears.

I’m not sure anything Jared could say now would undo the damage done a year ago. Once some fans latch onto something, it’s almost impossible to get them to let go. Which is why I was so disappointed when the prequel drama was made public in the first place, it should’ve been resolved privately between two friends.

[Bergamot]

1 hour ago, goyour-own-way said:

from what I've seen, we're all assuming Jared will have some part to play in the prequel eventually.

Yes, I am assuming that. Even in the pilot episode; I didn't expect to see as much of Dean as we do see in the trailer that has been released. But maybe Dean gets in the Impala and catches sight of the green army man in the door, and it reminds him of Sam.

[Lastcall]

1 hour ago, Nick24 said:

SPN became total fanfiction when Dabb and Berens wrote Red Meat in s11

Amen, I think that was the episode where Dabb firmly took over the show.

1 hour ago, Hana Chan said:

And I'm sorry, but I fail to see how TW will do anything to address the problems that Jensen's fans (and in their opinion, Jensen himself) had with the finale. It won't change anything about Dean's story. Maybe another option would have been to focus on Dean's namesake as he learns more about his family history and the uncle that he was named for. But then, that might deprive Jensen of the opportunity to do his Dean cosplay and his fans to act as his he and only he was SPN.

I'm not convinced Jensen is as happy with the finale as he has claimed. If he now believes it was the best ending then why is he in this prequel and why is he pushing a 10 episode last case short season. Now, if Dean's "now" is between 5x19 and 5x20 then the finale stands. His last case pitch could be before 5x20 also but doing anything starts unravelling Dabb's story. No matter what people say about the finale, Dabb wrote it as Dean dying on the first hunt without Chuck's protection. Having a mission and last case between those two episodes starts to change Dabb's plan. If Dean's "now" is in heaven then it unravels the story even further. I see why people that loved the finale would hate that but the easy fix is not to watch the show at all and be happy with the 15 season story they got.

[Nick24]

11 minutes ago, Lastcall said:

Now, if Dean's "now" is between 5x19 and 5x20 then the finale stands. 

I hope not,  because in this case all I will be thinking about is rusty nail waiting for Dean. I wouldn't like that nightmare

[Casseiopeia]

[tessathereaper]

3 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Louder, for the people in the back.

I stopped reading right after this.

Right?  It looked good.  

2 hours ago, Hana Chan said:

The problem I have with focusing on them at such a relatively young age and retconning John's understanding of the supernatural world. It's easy to like characters before they're broken and damaged. John was clearly a wonderful and kind man before Mary died and we know that losing her under the circumstances that he did turned him into the obsessive and bitter man that we met in season one. Maybe a more interesting premise, if the point was to understand his parents would have been for Dean/Jensen to explore the immediate years after Mary's death and see John slowly learn about what was happening in the world around him. That would make a lot more sense and fit in better with the canon.

And I'm sorry, but I fail to see how TW will do anything to address the problems that Jensen's fans (and in their opinion, Jensen himself) had with the finale. It won't change anything about Dean's story. Maybe another option would have been to focus on Dean's namesake as he learns more about his family history and the uncle that he was named for. But then, that might deprive Jensen of the opportunity to do his Dean cosplay and his fans to act as his he and only he was SPN.

 How does AFTER Mary's death help with understanding his parents relationship? She's dead, there is no relationship.  Dean KNOWS about what John turned into, he lived it, he experienced first hand and he suffered for it.  Yes when it was happening at first he was too little to fully understand but he could look back on it and do so.  And given that Sam was going down much the same obsessed path at one point in relationship to Jessica's death, except Dean was there to point it out, clearly simply knowing about the supernatural does not therefore mean you'll deal with things in a good way.

And don't even mention the abomination that is Dean 2(no blame on the actor of course), it felt like Dabb was using the excuse of naming kids after relatives as a way to erase Dean.  He figured the only way to do a new show was with another character named Dean Winchester to replace our Dean after he purposely tried to make sure there was no possible way forward(which he said he wanted to make it as hard as possible to do another show, he wanted to make sure HE had the last word, which he certainly didn't deserve).  I have little doubt he did it as an insult. 

Now as for changing Dean's story?  If this takes place after 15.20 and before Sam gets there that right there will change Dean's story - he actually isn't just driving a highway waiting for Sam.  That's something that actually is helpful because I know I had a problem with "Oh Dean just drives waiting for Sam, it won't take long heaven time but yeah he doesn't do anything, he doesn't visit anyone, his life in heaven won't even start until Sam shows up".  

ETA:

That picture of Jensen and Drake was cute. A lot of people are like that with eyedrops, they need someone else to put them in.  All I know is that these young actors seem really sweet and very excited.

Edited May 24, 2022 by tessathereaper

[Nick24]

11 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

And don't even mention the abomination that is Dean 2(no blame on the actor of course), it felt like Dabb was using the excuse of naming kids after relatives as a way to erase Dean.  He figured the only way to do a new show was with another character named Dean Winchester to replace our Dean after he purposely tried to make sure there was no possible way forward(which he said he wanted to make it as hard as possible to do another show, he wanted to make sure HE had the last word, which he certainly didn't deserve).  I have little doubt he did it as an insult. 

That was cute. A lot of people are like that with eyedrops, they need someone else to put them in.  All I know is that these young actors seem really sweet and very excited.

There is only one Dean Winchester in SPNverse. THE Dean Winchester.

Edited May 24, 2022 by Nick24

[Nick24]

58 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

(which he said he wanted to make it as hard as possible to do another show, he wanted to make sure HE had the last word, which he certainly didn't deserve).  I have little doubt he did it as an insult. 

Did Dabb really say that?

Oh, now I loathe him even more than I did before

[tessathereaper]

I can't remember the exactly words he used but he did basically say he wanted to make it virtually impossible for the show to have anywhere to go in the future.  

[Aithne]

13 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

I can't remember the exactly words he used but he did basically say he wanted to make it virtually impossible for the show to have anywhere to go in the future.  

Then I'm doubly glad to support TW going forward. Imagine coming into a show in its fourth season, not even being showrunner until more than a decade in, and feeling that entitled to the final word. 

Edited May 24, 2022 by Aithne

[Nick24]

34 minutes ago, Aithne said:

Then I'm doubly glad to support TW going forward. Imagine coming into a show in its fourth season, not even being showrunner until more than a decade in, and feeling that entitled to the final word. 

Even more ridiculous, that he came in S4 as CO-writer with Loflin, he wasn't full solo writer until S8 mid-finale, and then he again became only CO-showrunner with Singer. Wow, the man was really full of himself.

[FlickChick]

5 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

This right here? Is a prime example of the disrespect shown Jensen by Jared stans. Reducing him to 'cosplay' of a character he embodied for 15 years of his life, who he's shown nothing but respect for? Is just plain nasty. And Jensen has been nothing but supportive of the show, its legacy, and of Jared and Sam and the brothers. Always. If Jared was any kind of decent friend, he would call off his hordes in no uncertain terms and let these people (99.9% of whom AREN'T JENSEN) make their show and earn a living. But that would require giving up the victimhood his fandom revels in.

This times 1000!!! If I were Jensen after that public fiasco of a post from Jared, I would have nothing to do with him in the future. Even if Jared had a few words of "we're okay" days later, the harm would be done. And apparently, reading these posts today, the harm is still raging. So much for "brothers".

[Nick24]

Probably that thought was already mentioned, but still, I've been thinking, maybe it can turn out, that 15.20 happened in AU Chuck hadn't destroyed and Dean is just on Earth now.

Or somehow after 15.19 Sam and Dean ended up in different universes and now Dean is trying to find his way back to his universe using Mary/John story 

Or in 15.20 after that vamp nonsense Dean didn't die but ended up in AU (maybe Cas was trying somehow to help, but something went wrong). Then Dean thought we was in Heaven, but when AU!Sam showed up he realized that he was alive just in AU and now Dean's on that road to find way home and Mary/John past would be some kinda key. It would explain why that place is pretty dark and why Sam cannot be there

Also Mary and John could be AU!Mary and AU!John from the universe Dean ended up in. Now Dean is trying to figure out, how things with his parents turned out to be in AU, what's the difference and what was the key point, which caused that difference between our universe and that AU. And that knowledge would help him not just come back home, but also to change some things in the present of our universe

Edited May 24, 2022 by Nick24

[Nick24]

Nothing here

Edited May 24, 2022 by Nick24

[Nick24]

Nothing here :)

Edited May 24, 2022 by Nick24