Trials and Tribulations of Juicy and Tre...

[zoeysmom]

According to the article I post upthread-62.2% of the defendant's in fraud cases get prison time.

[LotusFlower]

I just can't get past her BK concealment and perjury pleas. She tried to hide all of her earnings related to RHNJ ($150K+ bank account, non-executed book contract and executed contract documenting her hefty salary increase). Then she lied about it and lied about it some more.

  

This has always been my issue-Tresa saying-"I knew nothing", but several of the properties were in her name only.  Sounds like she knew a little something.  Oh my out beach house is in my name only. . . how did that happen?

Two really good examples. Two of the many reasons why Teresa can not, and will not, play dumb and say it was all her mastermind husband.

[zoeysmom]

In Teresa's plea agreement there is a section which discusses sentencing . " This office can not and does not make any representation or promise as to what guideline range may be found by the sentencing Judge, or as to what sentence Teresa. Giudice will ultimately receive."

Many times in plea agreements there will a provision along the lines of "the Government will not object to defendants receiving probation", or it will say the plea agreement is based on defendant doing 18 months with nine months in a half way house and nine months house arrest.  This plea led me to believe the Government is not really all that agreeable to straight probation.  Or it could be a simple as this particular judge does not want any pleas with a specific sentence as part of the plea.

[LotusFlower]

In Teresa's plea agreement there is a section which discusses sentencing . " This office can not and does not make any representation or promise as to what guideline range may be found by the sentencing Judge, or as to what sentence Teresa. Giudice will ultimately receive."

I cited that exact sentence. (But I admit my posts are probably long-winded, so I don't blame you for missing it!). It's crucial to this discussion. Sharp eye!

[zoeysmom]

  

Two really good examples. Two of the many reasons why Teresa can not, and will not, play dumb and say it was all her mastermind husband.

I would have loved to have had a transcript of her presentence interview.  Imagine no Heather MacLean and no one actually speaking for her.  No one to object to questions.  The probation officer being able to use outside materials.  I bet it was interesting.  Most people don't like to be played.  Since she is an author I would have whipped out of few of her blogs-where she denies all culpability for everything and talks about how smart she is.

[LotusFlower]

Many times in plea agreements there will a provision along the lines of "the Government will not object to defendants receiving probation", or it will say the plea agreement is based on defendant doing 18 months with nine months in a half way house and nine months house arrest.  This plea led me to believe the Government is not really all that agreeable to straight probation. 

Right. Why would they? They're prosecutors. Their job is to prosecute.. They represent the People, with a capital P. Those of us who pay our taxes and obey laws. They want justice for US! (well, also for their Office!). Joe and a Teresa are crooks. They don't feel sorry for them. They're not cutting deals for them. They want the strictest of punishment.

I understand some thinking the judge might go easy on Teresa, but the Feds? It makes no sense.

[LotusFlower]

I would have loved to have had a transcript of her presentence interview.  Imagine no Heather MacLean and no one actually speaking for her.  No one to object to questions.  The probation officer being able to use outside materials.  I bet it was interesting.  Most people don't like to be played.  Since she is an author I would have whipped out of few of her blogs-where she denies all culpability for everything and talks about how smart she is.

Interesting. I wonder if the probation officer was that on the ball. Teresa can't control how she's edited on the show, but she's certainly in control of what she writes, ahem, has ghost-written for her. I've avoided her blogs this season because she's so full of shit. Does she really deny culpability?

[LotusFlower]

I don't see how she could claim Joe was the mastermind and she just innocently signed forms. This involved fake W-2s and her claims of being an executive assistant or a realtor with an income of $15,000 per month on loan documents with her signature. Unless she tries to claim Joe forged her signature or something, she is caught in her own lies.

Another good example of Teresa's direct involvement. Did Joe have a gun to her head, forcing her to sign fake W-2 forms, or inventing this high-paying "executive assistant" job? I don't think so.

I don't know how much of a sentence she'll get. That chick on Mob Wives that helped her husband embezzle Union funds only got four years probation and no jail time. And the Feds had her on wiretap.

Less charges, and less serious charges. Also, it's interesting to note that when she appeared in front of the judge at sentencing, she didn't blame her husband for even a second, and he really was the conspirator. She had to assume full responsibilty for her actions. That's how it works.

Edited September 13, 2014 by LotusFlower

[zoeysmom]

Interesting. I wonder if the probation officer was that on the ball. Teresa can't control how she's edited on the show, but she's certainly in control of what she writes, ahem, has ghost-written for her. I've avoided her blogs this season because she's so full of shit. Does she really deny culpability?

When that Heather Maclean was writing them for her. . . .remember the infamous "Napalm", Teresa was all about how she didn't get money for magazines, and didn't do this and didn't do that and how all her words were her own.  To me the most telling segments were I think Season 4. . . she lied about pretty much everything and many people referred to that as the season she was ganged up on at the Reunion.  She was brutal, conniving and malicious. . . some like her husband might very well have called her a c.u.n. . . . 

 

All of Teresa's writings are fair game.  I know it bothers people when I say they (the probation and judge) are allowed to use material that many don't consider evidence, but they do.  During the time of much of the filming and the writing of these blogs. . .Teresa was on notice she was under investigation.  She was put on notice when the US Attorney's Office filed the Objection to Discharge, back in September of 2010.  So I have absolutely zero sympathy for her being "ambushed" with her own words.

[zoeysmom]

  

Two really good examples. Two of the many reasons why Teresa can not, and will not, play dumb and say it was all her mastermind husband.

here is the document that best supports your statement-lengthy but then it starts talk about Teresa and all her solo acts of concealment.  http://mnconsumerattorney.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/giudice_ust_cplt_obj_to_discharge1.pdfhttp://mnconsumerattorney.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/giudice_ust_cplt_obj_to_discharge1.pdf

[LotusFlower]

here is the document that best supports your statement-lengthy but then it starts talk about Teresa and all her solo acts of concealment.  http://mnconsumerattorney.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/giudice_ust_cplt_obj_to_discharge1.pdfhttp://mnconsumerattorney.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/giudice_ust_cplt_obj_to_discharge1.pdf

Oh no! File not found!

[MsTree]

Thanks to the Juiceys and those like them (bunch of crooks!) all the honest people have to jump through many hoops, give up their first born child and bleed several pints of blood just for a re-fi...never mind an initial mortgage. This, even with FICO scores around 800! Bastards!

[happykitteh]

 

Lastly, there won't be any talk of "Joe was the mastermind" or "I only signed what was put in front of me." If Teresa tries this, she undermines the whole plea deal, one that includes many stipulations, including admitting her guilt and accepting responsibility for the charges to which she pled guilty. She not only had to agree to this in the signed plea deal, but to then do so in front of the judge at sentencing. Again, denying or diminishing her role in the crimes is contrary to what she agreed to, and would work against her, not in her favor.

 

What if, God forbid, Teresa only gets house arrest or probation and says in an interview or on the show (IMO, Andy will want her back if she's not in prison to do a Tre As Struggling Single Mom storyline) that she really was innocent but for the sake of her and Joe agreed to plea, blah, blah, blah, and continues with the victim role? Can she get into legal trouble for allocuting in front of the judge but denying responsibility to the public or does that not matter since she's not under oath when speaking on the show or to media? I just can't see Tre letting go of her "poor vitimized me" routine if she's not in prison. I understand she has to say she's guilty in front of the judge but what about after?

[LotusFlower]

What if, God forbid, Teresa only gets house arrest or probation and says in an interview or on the show (IMO, Andy will want her back if she's not in prison to do a Tre As Struggling Single Mom storyline) that she really was innocent but for the sake of her and Joe agreed to plea, blah, blah, blah, and continues with the victim role? Can she get into legal trouble for allocuting in front of the judge but denying responsibility to the public or does that not matter since she's not under oath when speaking on the show or to media? I just can't see Tre letting go of her "poor vitimized me" routine if she's not in prison. I understand she has to say she's guilty in front of the judge but what about after?

That's a good question. I don't think she'd ever say she was totally innocent, but she could continue throwing Joe under the bus, and/or diminishing her role, which is the opposite of what she's going to allocute to in Court. My sense is she can't, but I really don't know. Zoeysmom is our thread expert here; maybe she knows or can research this point.

The plea agreement states that Teresa's offense number was lowered 2 points because of her acceptance of responsibility in the signed plea deal, contingent on continued acceptance through the date of sentencing. As for after she's sentenced, it doesn't say. Interesting Q. (Frankly, I don't think this strategy would serve her well. It might fool and/or please some of her more gullible fans, but lying to a judge in open court? She's lose not just respect, but any chance at redemption and forgiveness. Much smarter to accept responsibility, keep at it, and try to move on. But legally? Again, I'm not sure).

Edited September 13, 2014 by LotusFlower

[jinjer]

Is "Teresa not doing time" all a bluff on Joe/Teresa's part to keep their kids not worried all this time that both their parents are going away?  Maybe they do have a good idea that their sentences won't be served concurrently and that is all it is?

 

Someone above noted that only 62% of fraud cases serve time - that means that almost 40% don't.  That's pretty good odds for Teresa - especially since Joe is going to college.  And she is the one earning the money to make restitution.  Put that in the mitigating pile.  1/2 of the couple goes in, 1/2 pays and 40% of fraudsters don't do time.  I think the IRS charge is what got those celebs mentioned above time - not mtge fraud.  

 

I don't think her comments on RHNJ can go into the aggravating pile for the judge the way those same comments aggravate the viewers because Teresa can say they are scripted comments to move along the drama - that she is supposed to generate viewer reaction and that she has for the past 4-5 seasons.  Same with the closet full of clothes - "They're comped for publicity!"  The dog?  "Didn't you see the name of the puppy store?  More publicity/freebie!"  "We paid for nothing!  The fancy cars? Comped!"  "Boobs? - Business expense!"  I think everything on the show they can claim is make believe.  All the stuff off the show is much more aggravating.

 

I think the car-port is the construction that they were building to connect the parent's garage apartment to the house that Joe Go and Melissa supposedly ratted them out on according to some Gorga-hate online website. lol.  Boy is Heather in the O.C. way behind the times.  Both Melissa and Teresa have had porte cocheres for years!  

[zoeysmom]

Oh no! File not found!

Try this:  http://media.trb.com/media/acrobat/2010-09/56001042.pdf

 

it can be found by Googling Teresa Giudice Objection to Discharge Complaint

[Higgins]

I'm not saying she can deny responsibility but, her attorneys  can be much more nuanced than that as they argue her case at the sentencing. Things are not as black and white as some may wish they were. There is a distinction between taking responsibility for one's part in it and being the person who thought up the scheme.  The section of the plea you are referencing as if it it is significant , is standard wording. The prosecutor is never bound by promises as they are not the the authority on sentencing. The judge has the only sentencing discretion. The judge considering that she didn't plan the scheme would be mitigation or that she was involved in charitable actions or she has no prior convictions. Aggregation is the treatment of all counts and sentences as one, or the way they group counts to determine sentencing guidelines. It is a very complicated computation.

 

There was no trial so, how do you know who planned the scheme especially the mortgage fraud? How do you know if Joe came up with it and Teresa participated but didn't plan it? You don't think that matters? That doesn't mean she didn't knowingly participate. There are nuanced differences and if we were to only consider what the prosecutor presented without judicial discretion , why would we need a judge in sentencing? If everything we need  to determine the sentence is written in the plea agreement like you seem to think, we wouldn't need the judge to determine sentencing.

Edited September 13, 2014 by Higgins

[zoeysmom]

Is "Teresa not doing time" all a bluff on Joe/Teresa's part to keep their kids not worried all this time that both their parents are going away?  Maybe they do have a good idea that their sentences won't be served concurrently and that is all it is?

 

Someone above noted that only 62% of fraud cases serve time - that means that almost 40% don't.  That's pretty good odds for Teresa - especially since Joe is going to college.  And she is the one earning the money to make restitution.  Put that in the mitigating pile.  1/2 of the couple goes in, 1/2 pays and 40% of fraudsters don't do time.  I think the IRS charge is what got those celebs mentioned above time - not mtge fraud.  

 

I don't think her comments on RHNJ can go into the aggravating pile for the judge the way those same comments aggravate the viewers because Teresa can say they are scripted comments to move along the drama - that she is supposed to generate viewer reaction and that she has for the past 4-5 seasons.  Same with the closet full of clothes - "They're comped for publicity!"  The dog?  "Didn't you see the name of the puppy store?  More publicity/freebie!"  "We paid for nothing!  The fancy cars? Comped!"  "Boobs? - Business expense!"  I think everything on the show they can claim is make believe.  All the stuff off the show is much more aggravating.

 

I think the car-port is the construction that they were building to connect the parent's garage apartment to the house that Joe Go and Melissa supposedly ratted them out on according to some Gorga-hate online website. lol.  Boy is Heather in the O.C. way behind the times.  Both Melissa and Teresa have had porte cocheres for years!  

Teresa and Joe had to declare those "comped" assets and they did not-I hope the Government's "Objection to Discharge Complaint" upthread explains what they were required to do.  In order to say something is "comped" there has to be someone on the other end saying they "comped" it.  It is the same as when someone says-their defense is they said it for the show!! First there needs to be someone who will attest it was scripted from production.  If they don't have anyone to attest to a script -I guess they could say they lied to  make themselves look better, hurt another cast mate or create drama.  Maybe it is just me-but if I am up on fraud charges I don't think my best defense would be "I lie whenever it suits me and if is for pecuniary gain-all the more reason to lie." 

 

Best example of something on the show going before the Court-Season 1 Teresa was shown paying $100,000.00 in cash for furniture.  When called out on where the money came from and where the furniture was-Teresa produced $16,000.00 receipt.  The Court was satisfied  with her proof.  The Court believed the scene was embellished for the sake of the show but not without proof.

 

Most of these fraud charges occurred before Teresa and Joe were really popular.  Most occurred before the shooting of Season 2 and the BK fraud continued throughout the shooting of Season 2.  So gifts of Maserati  and closets full of expensive designer clothes are unlikely.  I mean who did she know-Kim D.?  The government set forth in its "Objection To Discharge" that Teresa created a corporation and opened a bank account in her name only, ran money through it an made close to $200,000.00 in debit card purchases.  There is quite a section in the "OTD", that goes into great detail all of Teresa's solo acts of fraud.  Including lying under oath and hiding income and assets.  .

 

So can she say the mortgage fraud was all Joe's idea-she can say anything, but the Court is aware that for a very looooooong time what these folks existed on were ill-gotten gains from fraudulent mortgage loans.  The BK fraud seems to be mainly on her.  Defense counsel can say anything they want on behalf of their client but there is nothing saying that the Court will buy it.  I always keep in mind that whatever is asserted buy the defense, the Government has had an opportunity to respond.

[Higgins]

Whether you like it or not, the children are a consideration.

[zoeysmom]

Whether you like it or not, the children are a consideration.

They are and Teresa is rolling the dice that it will keep both parents out of prison concurrently.  If I were Teresa's counsel I would be nervous right about now that perhaps they were so many delays that this position is losing some of its punch. 

[Higgins]

Delays are so common. It is not unusual at all, it happens more often than not. If the court didn't determine there was merit to the request, they could deny the postponement.

[zoeysmom]

Delays are so common. It is not unusual at all, it happens more often than not. If the court didn't determine there was merit to the request, they could deny the postponement.

I was referring more to the number of chances they had to set things right.  They have been in negotiations since October of 2010, for the various BK fraud allegations.  I think the Giudices kept pushing for no time and no crime and very little if any fines or forfeiture.  Even Teresa's  BK attorney gave an interview that she could possibly be facing jail time and Teresa turned it on Jacqueline-"go talk to my attorney" and that was filmed in 2011.    I agree continuances are common place-I am referring more to the pre-indictment years.  I just think that Giudices were hoping the more delays the better chance it would go away.

 

These last two sentencing continuances-I agree very common and in this case I am certain there are a ton of documents and the parties have to reach an agreement what the actual dollar amount of the fraud is and probably a ton of character stuff.

Edited September 13, 2014 by zoeysmom

[LotusFlower]

I'm not saying she can deny responsibility but, her attorneys  can be much more nuanced than that as they argue her case at the sentencing. 

I agree that Teresa and Joe engaged in this joint crime spree, and getting sentenced together, in front of the same judge, is significant. Joe's plea deal is harsher, and will undoubtedly reflect that he cooked this up. I don't think Teresa's lawyer will be nuanced about this - I think he'll state it loud and clear. But Teresa's dirty hands are all over this scheme. Her RHONJ salary, her paid appearances and book deals, her W-2 forms, etc... She has to take full responsibility for these, per the terms of the deal, where she stated her role was not minimal. To blame Joe, or to play dumb, is the opposite of what she needs to do.

There are nuanced differences and if we were to only consider what the prosecutor presented without judicial discretion , why would we need a judge in sentencing? If everything we need  to determine the sentence is written in the plea agreement like you seem to think, we wouldn't need the judge to determine sentencing.

The plea agreement was not written solely by the prosecutors, but by the US Attorneys Office and defense counsel jointly. So both sides agreed to this. But then at sentencing, they'll argue for different things, which, of course , is where the judge comes in. Operating from the same source (the plea deal), the prosecutors will be pushing for the harshest of sentences, and the defense will be asking for leniency, but again, both sides are making their case using the same agreement and the same offense numbers. The only question mark is whether or not Teresa's lawyer will be successful in lowering her offense number due to family considerations, which is possible, but in my view, a long shot. So while the judge of course has discretion, she's using her discretion in the context of the sentencing guidelines put forth in the plea.

[LotusFlower]

Is "Teresa not doing time" all a bluff on Joe/Teresa's part to keep their kids not worried all this time that both their parents are going away?  Maybe they do have a good idea that their sentences won't be served concurrently and that is all it is?

They have no idea what their sentences will be, or whether or not they'll serve concurrently. Their lawyers can tell them what they can reasonably expect, based on the sentencing guidelines, but that's it. It's all up to the judge.

 

Someone above noted that only 62% of fraud cases serve time - that means that almost 40% don't.  That's pretty good odds for Teresa - especially since Joe is going to college.  And she is the one earning the money to make restitution.  Put that in the mitigating pile.  1/2 of the couple goes in, 1/2 pays and 40% of fraudsters don't do time.

Do we know Joe isn't working? Is he not working, since we don't see it on tv, like Teresa? Regardless, I think their current employment status is irrelevant, since they can make no promises re: employment and future earning potential post-conviction. That applies to Teresa as well as Joe.

[Higgins]

They have no idea what their sentences will be, or whether or not they'll serve concurrently. Their lawyers can tell them what they can reasonably expect, based on the sentencing guidelines, but that's it. It's all up to the judge.

 

Do we know Joe isn't working? Is he not working, since we don't see it on tv, like Teresa? Regardless, I think their current employment status is irrelevant, since they can make no promises re: employment and future earning potential post-conviction. That applies to Teresa as well as Joe.

Except nobody will employed if they are both in prison. That's a given.

[LotusFlower]

Except nobody will employed if they are both in prison. That's a given.

But that's just stating the obvious. Why is anyone sent to prison on fraud charges if allowing them to work is a more expedient way of making restitution?

[zoeysmom]

They have no idea what their sentences will be, or whether or not they'll serve concurrently. Their lawyers can tell them what they can reasonably expect, based on the sentencing guidelines, but that's it. It's all up to the judge.

 

Do we know Joe isn't working? Is he not working, since we don't see it on tv, like Teresa? Regardless, I think their current employment status is irrelevant, since they can make no promises re: employment and future earning potential post-conviction. That applies to Teresa as well as Joe.

This is kind of sad but Joe worked under his father's contractor's license.  I know after Superstorm Sandy he and his dad's company were doing construction on storm ravished homes.  Now that his father is gone he doesn't have a license to work under.  Doubtful he will be able to get bonded with his fraud convictions and obtain his own contractor's license.

 

I really don't know what else Joe is cut out to do-all his work seemed to be construction or landlord related.  I guess at 48 or whatever he will be when he is released he could get back into working as a carpenter or mason.  Maybe his brother or brother in law will be able to provide him with some work. 

 

Judging from the property it looks like most of Joe's work went into adding and improving Camp Giudice. 

 

As to Teresa-if her Bravo gig goes away I cannot imagine what she will do for a living.  She probably can't work as a buyer for retail stores because she won't be able to be bonded.  Maybe there is another reality show out there for her.  I sincerely doubt after this year's accommodations that Bravo had to do for Teresa due to her precarious self-inflicted situation that even with probation there will be much of a Bravo paycheck waiting for her.  Even with her daughters she really can't carry the show.  Maybe she will sell her story?  Make paid appearances telling her story?

[LotusFlower]

I really don't know what else Joe is cut out to do-all his work seemed to be construction or landlord related.  I guess at 48 or whatever he will be when he is released he could get back into working as a carpenter or mason.

In Italy? LOL! Cuz he might be deported. Although even I don't think he'll be deported. It's a possibility, though. More employment opportunities over there, I would think.

As for Teresa, I also think she's toast with Bravo. But you never know - they have such low morals and low standards. But ratings are still King, and since the show is down ratings-wise, I think they'll pay attention. As for writing a book, aren't there laws against profiting on your crimes?

[Jennifersdc]

I don't think Juicy will end up getting deported either. He's not exactly a danger to society (well I guess unless he's behind the wheel) and has pretty strong ties here that I would think call for our "mitigation" theory.

I think it's curious though that "inside sources" think he will, while Teresa still only gets house arrest.

IMO the chances of both are about the same.

Excuse any spelling/grammar. At a bar with my insane Florida Gator husband watching a pretty dreadful performance. I was thinking about lying on the floor and praying to get God to intervene, but I don't think he gets involved with college football either (contrary to some opinions).

[Jennifersdc]

I think it's laying not lying on the floor. Excuse is that lying has been a big part of our conversation.

[LotusFlower]

I think it's curious though that "inside sources" think he will, while Teresa still only gets house arrest.

I think those "inside sources" are just staffers at Radar Online and other similar sites that write whatever they want to drive traffic. They know nothing.

As for the Gators and God - you're on your own! But I think God will give your husband preference over Teresa, what with those sins and idolatry and all...

[Jennifersdc]

Oh yes - we're on our own re Gators. My husband's on his fifth bourbon (I'm on the fourth of sheer boredom). But God may have more interest vs Teresa (more Tim Tebow, less Aaron Hernandez).

[LotusFlower]

Oh yes - we're on our own re Gators. My husband's on his fifth bourbon (I'm on the fourth of sheer boredom). But God may have more interest vs Teresa (more Tim Tebow, less Aaron Hernandez).

Ah! I see your point. LOL!

[zoeysmom]

I don't think Juicy will end up getting deported either. He's not exactly a danger to society (well I guess unless he's behind the wheel) and has pretty strong ties here that I would think call for our "mitigation" theory.

I think it's curious though that "inside sources" think he will, while Teresa still only gets house arrest.

IMO the chances of both are about the same.

Excuse any spelling/grammar. At a bar with my insane Florida Gator husband watching a pretty dreadful performance. I was thinking about lying on the floor and praying to get God to intervene, but I don't think he gets involved with college football either (contrary to some opinions).

I think Juicy is here to stay.  Although I have this little visual of the Giudices shortly after sentencing, grabbing the kids, sneaking on a boat and departing via the Caribbean to Italy and much like the "Sound of Music" arriving in the hills of Italy singing and holding hands.  Of course in my version the Giudices would all be offering a middle finger salute.

 

Zoe's dad and a college classmate flew to attend their alma mater's game this weekend.  I like football but what a waste of frequent flyer miles.

[Lablover27]

I don't think Juicy will end up getting deported either. He's not exactly a danger to society (well I guess unless he's behind the wheel) and has pretty strong ties here that I would think call for our "mitigation" theory.

I think it's curious though that "inside sources" think he will, while Teresa still only gets house arrest.

IMO the chances of both are about the same.

Excuse any spelling/grammar. At a bar with my insane Florida Gator husband watching a pretty dreadful performance. I was thinking about lying on the floor and praying to get God to intervene, but I don't think he gets involved with college football either (contrary to some opinions).

 

Jennifer, you obviously didn't get the prayer right.  "Our fatha who art in heaven......give us jelly bread..."  NEXT TIME JELLY BREAD!  Dang, I'm gone for one day and the Gators lose, Iowa Hawkeyes lose, USC loses.  Apparently, I forgot to pray for our jelly bread!  

 

Great reading tonight!  

[LotusFlower]

Jennifer, you obviously didn't get the prayer right.  "Our fatha who art in heaven......give us jelly bread..."  NEXT TIME JELLY BREAD!  Dang, I'm gone for one day and the Gators lose, Iowa Hawkeyes lose, USC loses.  Apparently, I forgot to pray for our jelly bread!  

Wait - I think the Gators pulled out the win! Jennifer's prayers worked! Teresa - there's hope.

[jinjer]

Isn't it mandatory deportation?  They (meaning the feds) could jerk it around for awhile and if he had cooperated and say that his presence was needed for cooperation purposed had he actually given them something, but unless Joe shows his life is in danger in Italy, I thought that deportation for these crimes was mandatory.

[zoeysmom]

Isn't it mandatory deportation?  They (meaning the feds) could jerk it around for awhile and if he had cooperated and say that his presence was needed for cooperation purposed had he actually given them something, but unless Joe shows his life is in danger in Italy, I thought that deportation for these crimes was mandatory.

No it is not mandatory.  Each case is weighed and heard separately.  Joe has been here since age one, married has a family he has far more working in his favor for staying than going.

 

If he is deported he never has to repay the money.  At least if he is here there is a chance. 

[Muffyn]

I think it's laying not lying on the floor. Excuse is that lying has been a big part of our conversation.

So Theresa was both laying and lying on the floor?  Laying on the floor while she lies about almost everything in her life? 

[jinjer]

From writers digest.com

Lay vs. Lie Chart

Infinitive    Definition         Present    Past    Past Participle    Present Participle

to lay      to put or place     lay(s)      laid     laid                  laying

something down

 

to lie     to rest or recline    lie(s)       lay      lain                  lying

 

So I think Teresa was lying down if it is right.  She would be laying pamphlets on the floor.

[Rhetorica]

So I think Teresa was lying down if it is right. She would be laying pamphlets on the floor.

Correct. You lay a blanket down and lie upon it. Or you are laying a blanket down and are lying on it. But with Teresa's grammar, she's just liaring down.

[Higgins]

What kind of pamphlets?

[Giselle]

What kind of pamphlets?

Cleansy ones.

[Giselle]

Correct. You lay a blanket down and lie upon it. Or you are laying a blanket down and are lying on it. But with Teresa's grammar, she's just liaring down.

So Theresa can lay out an argument as to why she should get probation for her sleazy actions, she'll just go to prison if she lies about it. If she does go to prison she will lay a blanket down on her prison cot and lie upon it until her cell is tossed before lights out.

 

I wonder if she's watching Orange Is The New Black for prison tips? Is Joe watching Oz?

[Jennifersdc]

The mystery of the porte cochere is solved! The Giudice's started it after they filed for BK. I guess they couldn't wait to go out and start spending all that money they were sure they so cleverly hid from the BK court.

Totally randomly saw a reference to the episode were Jaq calls out Teresa on her bullshit. Where Teresa was acting as if she was as Fabulicious as ever, but selling stories about her troubles to tabloids (who can forget My Life Without Joe and the golden retriever). By this point the BK Trustee had already accused them of filing a fraudulent petition so Teresa going to jail was also a possibility. But Teresa's still spending away. Jaq mentioned the spending sprees on the wine room, carport, garage and furniture. She forgot handbags.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Jennifersdc

[motorcitymom65]

The mystery of the porte cochere is solved! The Giudice's started it after they filed for BK. I guess they couldn't wait to go out and start spending all that money they were sure they so cleverly hid from the BK court.

Totally randomly saw a reference to the episode were Jaq calls out Teresa on her bullshit. Where Teresa was acting as if she was as Fabulicious as ever, but selling stories about her troubles to tabloids (who can forget My Life Without Joe and the golden retriever). By this point the BK Trustee had already accused them of filing a fraudulent petition so Teresa going to jail was also a possibility. But Teresa's still spending away. Jaq mentioned the spending sprees on the wine room, carport, garage and furniture. She forgot handbags.

I remember that and I loved it. I know lots of folks were mad because Jaq went there, but I think she had just had it with Teresa at that point. I always thought that was the real reason Teresa was pissed at Jaq. She was the first and only person (to my knowledge) that ever questioned the fact that they were broke (and telling the tabs all about it for a price), yet spending on the show like everything was great and her only problem was her whore of a SIL. Yep, Jaq may be in the exact same position and may well have looted Signature Apparel to pay for all her botox and plastic surgery. If so, I will be just as happy for someone to call her out on that.  The one thing I will say about Jaq and Chris - if they were doing some shady stuff, they were smart enough to not come across as materialistic as Teresa did. Teresa running through the streets looking for Chanel, refusing to sit on a used toilet, guilting Juicy into a 10th anniversary present they had no money for. This was all on Teresa and we all knew there was no money for any of it. 

[Kerrey92]

Teresa and Joe Guidice frustrate me to no end.  

 

First, I believe that they had NO BUSINESS being cast on this show.  They started with their illegal ways before being on the show and I think are true grifters and con artists.  It drives me nuts that Teresa makes ANY MONEY off being on this show, because she should have never been on it in the first place.  Joe and Teresa didn't have a pot piss in and never have had the wealthy life that was supposed to be the premise for this show in the beginning.  

 

Second, I believe that Melissa and Joe had a sense of what was going on with Teresa and Joe and it was why they were so hell bent on getting on the show to expose her.  It probably ate them up that Teresa and Joe were allowed to build this empire on the backs of a fraud.  As the show went on, I think that Caroline and Jacqueline were clued in to what was happening as well.  By then, Teresa was the break out star and Bravo and the cast wasn't going to mess with the ratings juggernaut that was Teresa.  

 

Third, these people on this show can totally and 100% stand behind Teresa and Joe and still acknowledge the wrong doing and their part in it.  Not ONE PERSON, including the new people, will go on record to say that the Guidices have done something wrong?  What is up with that?

 

If one of my close friends or family members did what the Guidices did, I would still stand by them.  If they are truly my friend, I would want to support their trials and tribulations but would them know that I don't condone their actions or approve of what they did.  Not one person on this show has said one thing negative about the Guidices and I smell the producers hand in that.  When this was filmed, the producers still thought that that the Guidices were a huge draw and had lots of fans.  Now that the ratings are dropping, we might see a different story.  

 

Everything Teresa said is BULLSHIT, but that's because she's a con artist.   Her whole attitude about needing protection from God (as if He doesn't have bigger things to worry about) and going through a difficult time makes me infuriated.  She needs to get some jail time to understand that she's done something wrong.  I don't get the sense that she believes that she did.  She is so caught up in the con; she doesn't even know the truth.  She's terrible.

 

I swore I wasn't going to watch because I didn't want to give the Guidices the ratings and I HATE watching them.  They make my blood boil.  

[LotusFlower]

Third, these people on this show can totally and 100% stand behind Teresa and Joe and still acknowledge the wrong doing and their part in it.  Not ONE PERSON, including the new people, will go on record to say that the Guidices have done something wrong?  What is up with that?

I agree with your whole post, but I've been on a tear about this particular point. As for the new cast members, I think the lure of fame and fortune and the excitement of the reality tv cameras supersedes everything. Teresa was the star of the show, and they probably felt (or were told ) they had to kiss her ring to be viable on the show themselves. Even Amber, who's wanna-be lawyer husband made a big stink about associating with the Giudices, and claims to know what they did, expert that he is, sobs over the pity party that is Teresa, and acts like this is a travesty befalling her new friend. They are all playing their part and reading off the same script. And they're doing it for the Bravo paycheck, and their spot on the show.

[zoeysmom]

Kerrey-I am going to start with your first paragraph I wholeheartedly agree-the Giudices had no business being cast on the show.  In fact they would not allow Bravo cameras near their Paterson home with the freaking linoleum floors.   When the moved into the mansion it was not finished as they were waiting for more fraudulent loan money and stealing tenants rent money from their partners.  Teresa was a fraud from day one, never could stand her.

 

I think Melissa said it best when she said she and Joe, Kathy and Richie all wanted on the show for opportunities. I don't think they were aware of the depth and length  of the Giudices fraud.  If Teresa would have been nicer to them instead of the three season fight they probably would have all have seen greater success.

 

At some point either here or on Atlanta some cast member needs to take a stand on the pressure of working with convicted felons and the pressure to sympathize with their plight.  It really isn't fair to the rest of the cast and the idea that Bravo/NBC/Universal continues to employ these felons is ridiculous.  I am sure Bravo would want someone in their employ who committed fraud prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. 

 

Today TeResa came out with a negative comment about Teresa Giudice (at long last!). Her comment was essentially she and her family have done nothing but pray for Teresa and her family over their plight and her thanks was to have Teresa and Victoria Gotti participate in gossip that hurts her family.   I hope she has the courage to stand her ground come Reunion time-if the Giudices have been sentenced.  I think Caroline made the statement last year when she left the show-"I just can't anymore."

[LotusFlower]

^^ Interesting. Didn't Kenya call out Apollo's crimes in some kind of manner?