S02E03: Is the Total Black, Being Spoken

[aghst]

Quote

Jackie hatches a plan to discredit the assistant district attorney. Decourcy hopes to use Jenny against her husband. Siobhan receives some welcome news. Jimmy Ryan faces problems far worse than a guilty conscience.

Grace is going to get smacked in the face hard when she finds the cold hard truth about her sons Anton and Kelvin.  Now Anton cooking up murder, even though the cops are all over his younger brother.

Jackie tries yet another angle to get Decourcy, making a witness lie vs. Dee, who tries to stir up some trouble in the Rohr household by going to see Jenny and Benedetta, casually mentioning that the drug dealer informant who got Benedetta messed up was murdered.

Jenny is glad someone killed the slime who put took advantage of her daughter.  She also went from singing Annie Lennox songs to a church choir.  They're really stretching to give her some story lines aren't they?

Siobhan is pregnant, hopes Decourcy will be happy about the news.

Jackie tries to taunt Dee about Siobhan leaving him when his career is going nowhere while she's on the way up.  Dee goes back at him about catching him and Jackie is about to swing at him but Dee dares him to try.  Talk about emasculation!

So Jimmy Ryan didn't last long.  Cathy is a gangster.  She smuggles in dope into prison and gives it to him instead of her husband Frank?  Guess the actor was no longer available for this season.  She tells him he better not sniff it since she had to hide it in her you know what.

Again these Boston working class chicks are suppose to be tough but she's going to sell dope and kill her brother in law?  Her husband is in prison and she's already in a lot of legal troubles so she doubles down on crime!

I don't remember so much baggy clothes in the '90s though.  Actress is attractive but they're burying her under very unattractive clothing.

[ketchuplover]

I call BS on not searching her YKW.  

[LoveLeigh]

I am lost. Why did Jackie and Decourcy become enemies? And how did Decourcy mess up the trial? Frank was found guilty.

[aghst]

Jackie is sleazy and Dee is honest.  I thought there was something in season 1 about him wanting to clean up Boston.

I don't think it's so much the trial as the big shootout massacre.  Remember, both were trying to catch the Ryans in the act.  BPD was closing in on catching the Ryans trying to rob another bank but Jackie made sure to rush the FBI in, to take credit for the bust, to deny BPD and DeCourcy, or both.

Instead it was a bloody mess.

[Bluesky]

2 hours ago, LoveLeigh said:

I am lost. Why did Jackie and Decourcy become enemies? And how did Decourcy mess up the trial? Frank was found guilty.

He messed up by giving the brother full immunity in exchange for his testimony. On the stand he admitted killing someone and they couldn’t charge him thanks to the deal Decourcy gave him.  

[Robert Lynch]

Why did they change actors for the husband role? 

Edited April 12, 2021 by Robert Lynch

[meira.hand]

7 minutes ago, Robert Lynch said:

Why did they change actors for the husband role? 

I was also confused at first but from their conversation  I realized it was not Frankie. To quote from Reddit:

pacmanlad0607: No, that's Tommy from season 1. In the conversation Cathy & Tommy were having, Tommy mentions how she's holding up after what happened to Frankie & not letting the kids know. Tommy's head is shaven & he has a scar now.

This seems to imply Frankie is dead (the actor playing him is now in the main cast of Debris, so I guess they had to disappear him:)

[Robert Lynch]

5 minutes ago, meira.hand said:

I was also confused at first but from their conversation  I realized it was not Frankie. To quote from Reddit:

pacmanlad0607: No, that's Tommy from season 1. In the conversation Cathy & Tommy were having, Tommy mentions how she's holding up after what happened to Frankie & not letting the kids know. Tommy's head is shaven & he has a scar now.

This seems to imply Frankie is dead (the actor playing him is now in the main cast of Debris, so I guess they had to disappear him:)

That is really something. Thanks!

[Bluesky]

49 minutes ago, meira.hand said:

I was also confused at first but from their conversation  I realized it was not Frankie. To quote from Reddit:

pacmanlad0607: No, that's Tommy from season 1. In the conversation Cathy & Tommy were having, Tommy mentions how she's holding up after what happened to Frankie & not letting the kids know. Tommy's head is shaven & he has a scar now.

This seems to imply Frankie is dead (the actor playing him is now in the main cast of Debris, so I guess they had to disappear him:)

She told that lady outside that she wasn’t seeing her husband anymore in jail.  

[kathe5133]

I never liked Jimmy.  He was such a whiny fuck up!  I'm glad he's gone.  I do admit though, this season isn't holding my interest like season 1 did.  But, I'm going to hang in there.  I'm hoping it will pick up.

[Msample]

So where is Cathy going to get her heroin from now? 
 

 

[LoveLeigh]

6 hours ago, Bluesky said:

He messed up by giving the brother full immunity in exchange for his testimony. On the stand he admitted killing someone and they couldn’t charge him thanks to the deal Decourcy gave him.  

Why did Jackie and Decourcy become enemies? And how did Decourcy mess up the trial? Frank was found guilty. Was it because Jimmy was Jackie's informant? 

[aghst]

2 hours ago, Msample said:

So where is Cathy going to get her heroin from now? 
 

 

She's going to go directly to Anton, let him put it in her you know what, so that she can smuggle more smack there.

[Bluesky]

13 hours ago, LoveLeigh said:

Why did Jackie and Decourcy become enemies? And how did Decourcy mess up the trial? Frank was found guilty. Was it because Jimmy was Jackie's informant? 

Decourcy blames Jackie for the death of his colleague at the site of the attempted armor car heist.   Jackie had no business going to that operation and because of Jackie they lost the surprise element.    

[TV Diva Queen]

I just watched this episode last night and have come to the conclusion that I have absolutely NO IDEA WHAT'S GOING ON!  NONE.  Learning that the guy Cathy went to see in prison was NOT her husband was the straw that broke the camel's back.  

Does Jackie do any police work? Or does he just go back and forth to the DA's office and the DOJ office and recite quotes.  Its laughable and not in a good way.  I'm here to see if Nana knows what her boys are up to and if she's part of it.  

[tennisgurl]

Jimmy has always been a selfish whiny fuck up, so I am not unhappy that he's gone. Karma is a real motherfucker. I sure did not see that one coming, I thought Cathy would come around on the guy, not shoot him and presumably take his drug supply. 

Grace is going to be devastated when she realizes what her sons are up to, ouch. 

Thanks to everyone who reminded me of why Jackie and Decourcy have such a mutual hate on now, its been awhile. Its always funny to see Jackie having to deal with people who don't just do exactly what he expects them to, like the kid this week and the fed at the bar. He acts like a kid who's pouty because he got caught in a lie. Always ask to see ID when someone claims to be law enforcement. 

[DoctorAtomic]

On 4/11/2021 at 9:57 PM, aghst said:

Jackie is sleazy and Dee is honest.  I thought there was something in season 1 about him wanting to clean up Boston.

 

11 hours ago, Bluesky said:

Decourcy blames Jackie for the death of his colleague at the site of the attempted armor car heist.   Jackie had no business going to that operation and because of Jackie they lost the surprise element.    

Decourcy also overreached in the trial last year too, and in giving immunity too soon, I forgot which character got on the stand and said he was the one who killed Kelly (?), which happened before the show started iirc. I think that guy was Jackie's CI so he didn't want him on the stand. 

That's also true at the end about Jackie too, but I didn't read it as him deliberately screwing up the operation, and you could argue it was a similar overreach. Maybe Jackie was more motivated for himself to get the collar. 

That's the thing I'm not liking about this season. I liked it way better when they were on the same side and were pushing boundaries to 'clean up Boston'. I think Decourcy's words were "I want to tear this machinery [the city] apart." I think it was kind of a narrative mistake to make Decourcy bad at his job on overreaching at the trial. Maybe you still need him to lose, but it was entirely a self-inflicted error. It may have been better for Jackie to cop to knowing who killed Kelly at the end, so Decourcy was kind of stuck and still lost, but did the best he can. 

tbh, This whole each of them going at the other seems limited and repetitive to me already. 

[Bluesky]

5 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

 

Decourcy also overreached in the trial last year too, and in giving immunity too soon, I forgot which character got on the stand and said he was the one who killed Kelly (?), which happened before the show started iirc. I think that guy was Jackie's CI so he didn't want him on the stand. 

That's also true at the end about Jackie too, but I didn't read it as him deliberately screwing up the operation, and you could argue it was a similar overreach. Maybe Jackie was more motivated for himself to get the collar. 

That's the thing I'm not liking about this season. I liked it way better when they were on the same side and were pushing boundaries to 'clean up Boston'. I think Decourcy's words were "I want to tear this machinery [the city] apart." I think it was kind of a narrative mistake to make Decourcy bad at his job on overreaching at the trial. Maybe you still need him to lose, but it was entirely a self-inflicted error. It may have been better for Jackie to cop to knowing who killed Kelly at the end, so Decourcy was kind of stuck and still lost, but did the best he can. 

tbh, This whole each of them going at the other seems limited and repetitive to me already. 

Being true to Boston in the 1990’s, the FBI was not working with the Boston Police in fighting to clean up Boston.   John Connolly was a local guy and FBI agent.  Whitey Bulger was Connolly’s informant and Connolly allowed Bulger to murder many people, and get away with it.   
 

Jackie didn’t screw up the operation on purpose but it doesn’t matter, because of his selfishness and grandstanding he got the cop killed.  

[DoctorAtomic]

They already handwaved why Jackie kind of does what he wants so that's not a big deal for me within the context of the show. I think they mentioned Bulger last episode. It seemed like Jackie knew he was an informant, but not his own informant. 

[aghst]

53 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

They already handwaved why Jackie kind of does what he wants so that's not a big deal for me within the context of the show. I think they mentioned Bulger last episode. It seemed like Jackie knew he was an informant, but not his own informant. 

It's different from season 1 in that he has a skeptical boss in the new US Attorney.

In season 1, Jackie was living off the reputation of a big time bust.  He was looking to stay relevant.

In these first 2 episodes, it seems like he has to impress his new boss, who's heard all the rumors.  In particular, she wants to find out if Jackie is the one who got that Assistant US Attorney high on coke and dumped her in front of the hospital.  She threatens the former FBI agent who's in charge of hospital security and tries to get the Assistant US Attorney to talk.

My guess is at some point she will talk or maybe just write down that yes it was Jackie who gave her the drugs?

But if this show is going to continue, they're not going to get rid of the Jackie character because he's one of the stars, maybe the biggest name in the cast.

So Jackie will find a way to wriggle out of it and keep his job.  In season one, he got caught with his mistress showing up at his home and Jenny hasn't thrown him out.

This season, in addition to his boss, Decourcy is trying to prove that Jackie killed Clay Roach.

If he gets caught, watch him turn out to have some info. that keeps him from being put in jail.

[DoctorAtomic]

Would the US Attorney be his 'boss' technically. I don't know how DOJ works. 

I don't know if 'impress' is the right word, but I will concede she's not as enamored as everyone else with Jackie's big bust (please tell me someone has seen Police Squad) so he is trying to see what he can do for himself in this new environment. In terms of the Asst., yes, he is certainly in hot water if anyone finds out, but she seemed much like a willing participant so I won't go so far as to say he coerced her into anything. 

The added thing I've seen is that the US Attorney doesn't like either Jackie or Decourcy which leads me to believe they'll be joining forces. 

I haven't watched this whole episode yet so I'm sure I'll be yammering on some more later in the evening. 

[DoctorAtomic]

On 4/11/2021 at 1:57 PM, aghst said:

Grace is going to get smacked in the face hard when she finds the cold hard truth about her sons Anton and Kelvin.

This is the most interesting plot for me. I feel like the youngest (Kelvin?) isn't really being seen as a teenager here more than an issue to them. She's going on about how she raised him and I'm wondering how much raising she really did. It was an interesting contrast that the kid Jackie was trying to shake down didn't roll at first. 

I'm just not interested in the leftover threads from last season. (It probably doesn't help that the hiatus was so long, but that's probably me.) It's only three episodes, so they might tie in later, but being an isolated thread isn't taking me in. 

I'm not interested in the baby drama either. Both of them have interesting things going on otherwise. If seems derivative to me. It would be more interesting if they were both career driven and that was their common bond. Their fight on careers was far more interesting. 

I forgot that Jackie was being threatened with forced retirement, so 'impressing' the US Attorney makes more sense. 

 

[TV Diva Queen]

14 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Would the US Attorney be his 'boss' technically. I don't know how DOJ works. 

I don't know if 'impress' is the right word, but I will concede she's not as enamored as everyone else with Jackie's big bust (please tell me someone has seen Police Squad) so he is trying to see what he can do for himself in this new environment. In terms of the Asst., yes, he is certainly in hot water if anyone finds out, but she seemed much like a willing participant so I won't go so far as to say he coerced her into anything. 

The added thing I've seen is that the US Attorney doesn't like either Jackie or Decourcy which leads me to believe they'll be joining forces. 

I haven't watched this whole episode yet so I'm sure I'll be yammering on some more later in the evening. 

The US attorney is the head.  The Director of National Intelligence is a direct report to the USAG.  Under the DNI is the FBI.  This is what I believe from reading my "spy" novels.  I'm can very well be wrong.  LOL  

[DoctorAtomic]

I don't think it really matters too much. The US Attorney threatened Jackie with forced retirement which I forgot. Although he resisted it seemed like he knows the threat is real. I think the point was she wasn't going to put up with him running around doing what he wanted anymore. That's why he's making up this case about Ward and bthe informant. She seemed to have bought it in this episode, and Jackie's trying to get her off his back. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I found this - https://www.fbi.gov/about/faqs/who-monitors-or-oversees-the-fbi and https://www.justice.gov/jm/jm-9-2000-authority-us-attorney-criminal-division-mattersprior-approvals

So, yes and no. It looks like the US Attorney has considerable latitude in their district. The only thing I really know is when Guliani prosecuted the mob under RICO for the first time, so that makes sense because it was his idea and how they did everything. 

It looks like she can't fire Jackie directly, but she still has considerable leverage. He has to report his investigations to her, and she can direct what he actually investigates. 

It's a fair enough buy in for me on the show. Conclusion - Jackie having to 'impress' her to avoid forced retirement seems legit. 

Given Jackie bagged the big crime family before the show started, then it seems the prior US Attorney can him a lot of leeway to do what he wanted. That US Attorney would have had to prosecute the case. It would have been a huge win for whomever that was. Again, beating the mafia catapulted Guliani into the mayorship of NYC. I could imagine something similar here. 

 

[DoctorAtomic]

On 4/11/2021 at 1:57 PM, aghst said:

So Jimmy Ryan didn't last long.  Cathy is a gangster.  She smuggles in dope into prison and gives it to him instead of her husband Frank?  Guess the actor was no longer available for this season.  She tells him he better not sniff it since she had to hide it in her you know what.

Again these Boston working class chicks are suppose to be tough but she's going to sell dope and kill her brother in law?  Her husband is in prison and she's already in a lot of legal troubles so she doubles down on crime!

I'm wondering how much effort they're going to put in finding who did Jimmy. It's not like he was a model citizen. He is a CI for Jackie, so I would think he'd be motivated to find out. 

Where does Cathy think she's going to get supply from now? Does she even know Jimmy's supplier? I'm not sure he's going to be so willing to seemlessly supply Cathy even if she does find him. I know Jimmy convinced him of a new market and steady money, but he doesn't strike me as being overly greedy for the hassle of dealing with Jimmy. 

[Msample]

5 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I'm wondering how much effort they're going to put in finding who did Jimmy. It's not like he was a model citizen. He is a CI for Jackie, so I would think he'd be motivated to find out. 

Where does Cathy think she's going to get supply from now? Does she even know Jimmy's supplier? I'm not sure he's going to be so willing to seemlessly supply Cathy even if she does find him. I know Jimmy convinced him of a new market and steady money, but he doesn't strike me as being overly greedy for the hassle of dealing with Jimmy. 

Even if Cathy finds Jimmy's connect, they sure as hell aren't gonna give her heroin on "credit" .  Unless her plan all along was she had the money but now she'll get it "direct" and cut out the hassle of dealing with Jimmy to get it. 

[DoctorAtomic]

When she hung up the phone on Jimmy, I took her exasperated sigh to mean she didn't actually have the money for him, but given how quick she got it moved in prison, I suppose that could be misplaced, and in fact she was resigning herself to do him.

I guess she assumed Jimmy would continually front the money for the product and she would just pay that off after she sold it, but there's no way their supplier is going to operate on credit. They made it clear that she really couldn't stand Jimmy in this episode. I don't know if she knew he was using too. 

If she does have the money, it shouldn't be a problem. She was talking about needing the money to save the shop, and for all she knew Jimmy could have been quoting her a price that was high enough so he could take his own cut of it before buying the stuff. I just don't know how she's going to find the guy. 

I think she's in way over her head and isn't a tough as she thinks. Even with the money, there's no way the dealer is going to just jump into business with her. 

[kathe5133]

After thinking about it, that was quite a large brick of heroin Cathy had there.  We know she only put two little bags in the balloon that she slipped in, and she only handed one balloon to the inmate she was visiting.  She can't have gone back to the prison enough times to unload all of that, one balloon at a time, without raising suspicion.  Hmmm.  This will be interesting..

[DoctorAtomic]

She did tell Jimmy she needed more the next time they talked. He was surprised she moved it so fast. 

Why ask for more otherwise though? 

[Orbert]

I guess I saw Cathy's dope dealing differently.  I figured she sold that first batch, then got another batch from Jimmy, all with no intention of paying for it.  He fronted her $10K worth of heroin, enough to save the salon and pay some bills, then shot him.  She may not have actually sold all the heroin yet, but that doesn't matter.  Whatever money she gets from it is hers now, then she's out.  I didn't think she had any intention of going into business with Anton.  It was all a long con to get rid of Jimmy and make a bunch of money at the same time.  That's why she kept saying she'd pay him, to string him along.  Even that phone conversation was carefully worded.  She never did actually say she had the money.  That sigh was her getting up the nerve to do what she felt she had to do.

That last scene with her meeting the kids at the bus, she was smiling and very happy, for the first time in a long time.  Jimmy's gone, the salon has been saved, business will eventually come back (or so she believes), and all is well.

[DoctorAtomic]

I guess my confidence in her playing a long con isn't that high, but that's entirely plausible. I guess since Jimmy fronted the money, she actually doesn't owe Anton anything. I would have wanted to see at least a brief scene outside of the prison as to where she was selling though. 

[Lastwaltz]

Anyone else notice the Morphine songs in the background? A nice nod to Boston music history, too. I think I watch this show more for the Boston-ness of it than the plot. Sloppy accents aside : )

[Orbert]

I never understood how she was supposedly going to sell thousands of dollars worth of H by smuggling it into the prison two tiny bags at a time inside her.  It just doesn't seem like she could move enough product that way to make it worthwhile, but I don't know.  That's what got me thinking about how she didn't really want to do it (peddle smack), and maybe was never planning on paying Jimmy back in the first place.

[DoctorAtomic]

I don't think she was planning on paying him back. I would have liked a little more of her process going up to making the decision on offing Jimmy. The tricky point I think we're looking at is that she asked for a *second* brick. So it seems to imply she got rid of that first one quickly, according to Jimmy's reaction. 

[Orbert]

Yeah, that was another clue.  She was getting as much out of him as she could, before offing him.  We never saw her actually moving any of it, except for the one prison visit.  That's doesn't mean that it didn't happen off-screen, but it was a lot to move.  She was betting on Jimmy being stupid enough to take her at her word and come up with another brick, and she was right.