Nitpicking

[dustylil]

We did see Lane working with Rory at events at the Independence Inn.

[BC Mama]

We did see Lane working with Rory at events at the Independence Inn.

 

That's true. I had forgotten about that. :) But, I still don't see that being able to pay for her massive cd collection!

[dustylil]

Yes, Lane certainly did seem to have a large cd collection! Astonishingly so, given that she would have to listen to much of it in secret :)

 

 Perhaps Mrs. Kim paid her for work done in and for the antique store.

[junienmomo]

Paris and I have a table for two, and I'm sure there are seats to spare on the topic of Bracebridge anachronisms. 

Bracebridge really fell apart for me when Sookie and Lorelai had this discussion at the beginning.

SOOKIE: Jackson, I told you, this dinner is not just about food. We are recreating an authentic 19th century meal.
LORELAI: The servers are all gonna be in period clothing, they're gonna speak period English. Here, look at the
costumes

 

 

 

Then Jackson shows up looking more like Henry VIII than Prince Albert. What were they thinking? The 19th century started with Jane Austen and ended with electric lights and automobiles, for goodness' sake. A sixth grader could have fact-checked this one for DP.

And the language: ai-yi-yi. I could *almost* go along with Rune when he suggested just talking like an old man would be better than learning Old English, except it's Rune, and it would turn my stomach to agree with him. 

 

Just to push my last nits out of this episode, both Rune and Bootsie could have been eliminated from GG without breaking my heart. I do appreciate Rune's roll in the Sookie/Jackson date, but he could have magically disappeared after that.

Oh, and the harpist pictured while Richard was talking about Prague was NOT playing the music we heard. 

OK, I'm out.

 

[dustylil]

I confess to never having paid all that much attention to The Bracebridge Dinner episode.  I somehow had thought they were attempting to create a meal from the Tudor period. But the nineteenth century! Yikes! There is all sorts of information on the formal and informal British cuisine of that period - including cookbooks of that era as well as cookery manuals translating the terms and methods for twentieth and twenty-first century readers and cooks. For a chef of Sookie's eminence, the meal should have been easy-peasy. Not a testament to her talents and skills. It was not as if she was being required to use the kitchen equipment and appliances of that time. Even a capable home cook should have been able to manage the preparation of a dinner from that era.

And as junienmomo indicated the nineteenth century covered a lot of ground with a large number of technological, social, economic and cultural developments. What part of the century were they going for? Victoria's reign?  That alone covered more than sixty years. Even the way food was served went through a number of changes.

Apart from the questionable menu choices (peacock pie was standard fare at fancypants - OK, fancy breeches - dinners some centuries earlier, I believe), what was with the faux Olde English? Surely the well read Rory could have pointed out to Lorelai and Sookie that in the era of Charles Dickens, George Eliot, the Bronte sisters, and Arthur Conan Doyle, people did not speak as if they were contemporaries of Geoffrey Chaucer.

I will refrain from commenting on the musical issues concerning the dinner. Although I will express my gratitude that although there was a harpist, it was not Drella.

Edited October 28, 2014 by dustylil

[junienmomo]

Oh! Oh! Drella!!! So many things wrong with that part. 

First that harp does not weigh a hundred pounds, Drella's harp is smaller than mine, and mine weighs only 81 pounds.

Second, harpists don't get gigs of that nature except under extraordinary circumstances, and the Independence Inn would not allocate a budget for a daily harpist.

Finally, the professional harp market is so competitive that no one has the job security to behave the way Drella does, I don't care how "great" she is. LOL

[txhorns79]

Second, harpists don't get gigs of that nature except under extraordinary circumstances, and the Independence Inn would not allocate a budget for a daily harpist.

 

Without having any idea what a harpist might cost per day, why couldn't they budget to have someone playing the harp daily?  I'm not saying it's the best use of money, but I figure you can pretty much have whatever you want at the Inn if you are willing to pay for it.   

 

 

For a chef of Sookie's eminence, the meal should have been easy-peasy. Not a testament to her talents and skills. It was not as if she was being required to use the kitchen equipment and appliances of that time. Even a capable home cook should have been able to manage the preparation of a dinner from that era.

 

Was there some point in the episode where Sookie said she was unable to manage the dinner, or that she didn't know what food would be needed to make an authentic 19th century meal?

Edited October 28, 2014 by txhorns79

[dustylil]

Sookie was seen panicking over the preparation of the dinner in at least two separate scenes.

[junienmomo]

LOL the bit with Sookie forgetting the word for salt was both ridiculous and funny.

Out of character for someone who is so focused on her menu all the time.

[junienmomo]

Della seemed to be a "harpist in residence" which is only typical at the Ritz-Carlton type of hotel. On or around the year 2000, this kind of harpist would be paid around a couple of hundred dollars for a two hour tea gig. Presuming we only saw Drella on a few booked occasions, it's plausible that she was frequently called in. Still seems overboard for a small-town but upscale Inn, but hey, this is both fiction and TV.

Here's a link to the person who says she taught the actress to fake the harp playing, which she did very well IMO.

[txhorns79]

Sookie was seen panicking over the preparation of the dinner in at least two separate scenes.

 

That doesn't really answer my question.  We've seen Sookie having moments of panic over normal meals throughout the series.   That's just her process.  Did she say during the episode she wasn't going to be able to manage the dinner or didn't understand what kind of food went into a 19th century meal?   That seemed to be the suggestion of the original comment I quoted. 

 

 

Della seemed to be a "harpist in residence" which is only typical at the Ritz-Carlton type of hotel. On or around the year 2000, this kind of harpist would be paid around a couple of hundred dollars for a two hour tea gig.

 

I'll be honest in that $200 for two hours of playing doesn't seem like a huge expense.  I would agree though that having a harpist come in to the Inn to play daily would be a little much.  

Edited October 28, 2014 by txhorns79

[junienmomo]

"Did she say during the episode she wasn't going to be able to manage the dinner or didn't understand what kind of food went into a 19th century meal?"

No, she never said that. With the exception of the salt joke, there were no issues with the preparation of the food. She did call for peacock pie which is 18th century, and she did start to run the servers through their lines, which was also not 19th century, so she did participate in the wrongness. With her Washington Irving comment, she did at least get his century right. Who did the menu planning and server script writing is unknown.

Oops except that Washington Irving was American, not English.

Sloppy attention to detail by the writers seems to be the most obvious reason.

Edited October 28, 2014 by junienmomo

[dustylil]

Sookie also participated in the costuming choices which were also considerably  off base.

 

I merely commented on the level of hysteria Sookie  was demonstrating concerning the preparation of what was a fairly straightforward meal for friends and neighbours and for which there were ample sources to guide her.

 

As to the writers lack of attention to detail, I guess their focus was - and continued to be - I Love Lucy and Elizabeth Taylor's love life. Oh, and assorted aspects of popular music.

 

 

[Kohola3]

I have attended several Renaissance era dinners and they are not really authentic in any way.  The hosts do what they can but have to be somewhat realistic about modern constraints.  People of that era ate with their fingers but I doubt the Bracebridge employees would appreciate grease all over their clothes. I wasn't at all concerned about the whole lack of continuity. It was a dress up party not a history lesson.  I doubt anyone was graded on accuracy.

[dustylil]

Kohola3, when I first watched the episode, I too thought it was some kind of Renaissance Dinner. An upscale version of a visit to Medieval Times as it were!

However, it wasn't until I was reading junienmomo's post of yesterday that I learned that the dinner was supposed to be set in the nineteenth century - some four hundred or so years later than the language, clothing, music, and at least some of the food would suggest.. Now I wouldn't have expected complete adherence to the food and dining customs of Britain in the 1800's, but I don't think a nodding acquaintance with them would be too much to ask. After all, why call the meal something it clearly was not? If it was simply called an Olden Days English Supper, I would not have raised (or picked) a single nit.

On reflection, the whole business does remind me of the utterly bizarre depiction the showrunners gave us of the Kim family's Seventh Day Adventist religious beliefs and practices.

[txhorns79]

Now I wouldn't have expected complete adherence to the food and dining customs of Britain in the 1800's, but I don't think a nodding acquaintance with them would be too much to ask.

 

Why?  I can't imagine the WB's target audience cared, or even noticed, since the whole thing was meant as a backdrop, not a history lesson.  I'm with Kohola on this.   These types of dinners aren't really meant to be anything more than just a colorful meal.  Though I did appreciate that this was a new-ish nit to pick, so kudos to you junie!  It's always nice to have a new topic to discuss, and not just the same old, same old. 

[BC Mama]

I keep thinking that Paris would really enjoy being apart of this conversation!

[blueray]

I've always thought it was a Renaissance dinner but I've only seen it a few times. I wish that they paid more attention to details.

[txhorns79]

I keep thinking that Paris would really enjoy being apart of this conversation!

 

Heh.  Could you imagine?  She'd yell at all of us, make us cry and then go to her crafts table.

[jb0495]

Major nitpick. I'm watching "They Shoot Gilmores" and Dean just broke up with Rory on the dance floor. He causes a scene and Rory leaves, then some time goes by, a few minutes I'm guessing and Lorelai comes back onto the dance floor looking for Rory.

Except, Lorelai was sitting on the benches of the dance floor with Luke while he is repairing her shoe. How did she not see Dean blow up at Rory?? Were they sitting outside and didnt notice Rory walk out? Then she magically reappears right after Kirk wins, convenient so she could cry with Lorelai but annoying because they couldn't win.

That part of the episode always frustrates me.

[Taryn74]

Heheh, I'm with you on that one.  I never mention it because TSG,DT is such a favorite episode, but...yeah.  I don't get it either.

 

And then in the next episode, Lorelai wonders how Luke didn't notice that Rory and Dean broke up at the dance!  You didn't even notice, Lorelai!  LOL.

[txhorns79]

One thing that I noticed on rewatch, was in Raincoats and Recipes, Jason clearly wants Lorelai back and is not going to take no for an answer until they can talk.  In the next episode, Sookie says they got Jason to leave the Dragonfly by telling him his condo was on fire, and we never hear from him again.  Now I can understand that the writers wanted to move on to Luke and Lorelai being together, but it was so weird that Jason just vanished into oblivion after making such a big show of trying to get Lorelai back.     

[junienmomo]

LOL, after all the LL scenes I missed getting, it's a small payback that Jason disappeared without one more Emily-like hissy fit. He was weirdly funny, though.

[dustylil]

Jason's burst of bravado wasn't that unusual in the series. For instance, in Written in the Stars at the town meeting - during the discussion of the impact on the town of the likely ending of their relationship - Luke said he would leave town if he and Lorelai broke up. Break up they did  but Luke stayed n Stars Hollow. He didn't even make a pretence of going fishing during the outburst of ribbons! And to the best of my recollection, nothing further  was ever said about it.

[G. Coop]

Jason clearly wants Lorelai back and is not going to take no for an answer until they can talk. In the next episode, Sookie says they got Jason to leave the Dragonfly by telling him his condo was on fire, and we never hear from him again. 

 

It was lazy writing on AS-P's part, I'd say. Jason showing up was clearly just a plot device to propel the argument between Luke and Lorelai that leads to their first kiss. Once that was done, Jason was no longer of use to her storyline. 

 

Luke said he would leave town if he and Lorelai broke up. Break up they did  but Luke stayed in Stars Hollow.

 

I never really thought Luke was serious about that, it seemed more like something he just said to shut Taylor up. But speaking of that particular town meeting, I recently rewatched the episode on Netflix and I still adore Lorelai's proud "Show them the horoscope!"

[txhorns79]

It was lazy writing on AS-P's part, I'd say. Jason showing up was clearly just a plot device to propel the argument between Luke and Lorelai that leads to their first kiss. Once that was done, Jason was no longer of use to her storyline.

 

I think this summarizes it best.  He served his point to propel the plot, then he vanished forever. 

[scarynikki12]

I want to know how Jess was a senior in the third season.  Just before he left Stars Hollow in season 2 he was doing so poorly in school that he was all but guaranteed to repeat his junior year.  Rory tried tutoring him that one episode and he goofed off the entire time, went to get ice cream, got in the accident and then went back to Liz.  Luke gets him to agree to committing to his studies as part of his return but there's no indication that he made up the work to advance to the next school level.  No indication that he'd gone to summer school to get caught up (which is the obvious fanwank but some in show confirmation would have been nice), or that Luke got the school to agree to some extra credit in the final weeks of school to just get his grades to passing level.  Nothing.  All I can do is make assumptions and we all know what they say about people who assume things.

[Guest]

One thing that I noticed on rewatch, was in Raincoats and Recipes, Jason clearly wants Lorelai back and is not going to take no for an answer until they can talk.  In the next episode, Sookie says they got Jason to leave the Dragonfly by telling him his condo was on fire, and we never hear from him again.  Now I can understand that the writers wanted to move on to Luke and Lorelai being together, but it was so weird that Jason just vanished into oblivion after making such a big show of trying to get Lorelai back.     

But there was a three month time jump, so to be fair, we don't really know what happened during that time. 

[dustylil]

Speaking of Jess  and his education, it  bothered me that Luke insisted that Jess attend Stars Hollow High School. Jess hated  the place. And it was not as if  Luke himself had fond memories of it (and his glory days as Butch!).  Unless Jess was legally obliged by the judicial system to be enrolled full-time in a secondary school (something viewers were never told), why not consider alternatives?  One of Luke's closest friends  had her GED and Luke had considerable respect for what she had done with her life. I wonder why that route wasn't even discussed as an option.

[txhorns79]

But there was a three month time jump, so to be fair, we don't really know what happened during that time.

 

That's true.  I guess it just bothered me how he simply disappeared, when the reality is that he probably would have at least returned once more to have it end properly.   

Edited November 3, 2014 by txhorns79

[BC Mama]

That's true.  I guess it just bothered me how he simply disappeared, when the reality is that he probably would have at least returned once more to have it end properly.   

 

True. But, for the sake of the narrative, it would have been nice if they maybe had Digger catch sight of Lorelai and Luke's first kiss, and then walking off.

[junienmomo]

True. But, for the sake of the narrative, it would have been nice if they maybe had Digger catch sight of Lorelai and Luke's first kiss, and then walking off.

 

Eek! BC Mama, I love your posts, but we have to keep the kiss between L&L, please? (Junie falls over in a faint :)

One fanfic did a nice job by having Jason send flowers and call, at which point Lorelai made it perfectly clear and he really disappeared after that. Can't remember which fanfic, though. 

[junienmomo]

Has anyone noticed that the Gilmores made a big deal about Rory's trust fund, but no one ever mentioned one for Lorelai?

The only real discussion for Rory was if she should have it earlier than 25 years old. 

At 16, I would have imagined that the trust fund for Lorelai would have been planned, if not set up already. Bankers weren't quite as fast back in the olden days as they are now. 

By age 25, the Gilmores had regular contact with Lorelai. They would have known that money would help. It also would have helped for the inn. Curious that Trix was willing to humiliate Lorelai over poverty, but not freely give her the pittance it would have taken to tide her over. 

Oh, well, at least Rory will have some money available post-election. She can pretty much choose her future. 

[dustylil]

I had always assumed that Lorelai had formally rejected any trust fund money that in the normal course of events would have come her way as a Gilmore at the age of 25, 30, 35. or whatever Wasn't her unwillingness to accept family help (in this instance money) one of the many things about their daughter that so exasperated Emily and Richard?

 

Much to my continued chagrin, I have no personal experience with such matters. But I would think Lorelai would be entitled to refuse to receive any funds  once she was of an age to make an informed decision.

[txhorns79]

By age 25, the Gilmores had regular contact with Lorelai. They would have known that money would help. It also would have helped for the inn.

 

I think Emily and Richard had very limited information about Lorelai's life at the time, and their relations with her, were at best, cold.  Even later on, when they regularly saw each other, I can't imagine Lorelai would have accepted any help from them for the Dragonfly.   

[dustylil]

I think Lorelai made the correct decision for herself concerning Gilmore family money. Totally apart from the bracing and character building aspects of living in poverty :)

Look how manipulative Richard was hoping  to be with Rory and her trust fund when she hadn't returned to Yale after living in Hartford with her grandparents for some months. And  they were very fond of Rory. (This was before the premarital sex issue.)

Assuming they had similar control/oversight over any trust funds of Lorelai until she was well into adulthood, imagine how the senior Gilmores would act towards someone they had been at loggerheads with since she was in grade school.

[BC Mama]

Eek! BC Mama, I love your posts, but we have to keep the kiss between L&L, please? (Junie falls over in a faint :)

One fanfic did a nice job by having Jason send flowers and call, at which point Lorelai made it perfectly clear and he really disappeared after that. Can't remember which fanfic, though. 

 

That kiss is epic and must never go!! 

[txhorns79]

One fanfic did a nice job by having Jason send flowers and call, at which point Lorelai made it perfectly clear and he really disappeared after that. Can't remember which fanfic, though.

 

It's sad when fan fiction offers more closure than the actual show.  Though I guess going the other way, the danger of fan fiction is that you get treated to couple pairings you'd rather not think about.  I'll let your imagination take it from there. 

[junienmomo]

LOL, txhorns, I know what you mean. Being a GG newbie, I've been reading lots of old fanfic. I had to stop one which had essentially created a magic Luke, who could solve everyone's problems effortlessly, in full tux and dancing backward.

 

On the other hand, there are fanfics like Mag68's work. Her Seven Weeks really filled that gap for me. https://www.fanfiction.net/s/3997131/1/Seven-Weeks

[larapu2000]

Whenever they're in a scene in the kitchen at either inn with Sookie, there are always fantastic concoctions or massive fruit/food platters all over the island and counters, with people like Lorelai PICKING OFF OF THEM WITH THEIR HANDS.  First of all, that shit gets wrapped in plastic and put in the cooler for health code and food preservation reasons, secondly, no one, and I mean no one, can eat off of a platter for guests, and thirdly, HOW COULD SOOKIE LET SOMEONE PUT THEIR GRUBBY PAWS ON THE FOOD??

 

The other thing that bugs is I don't know how big the inn was, or how large their meal service was, but Sookie always had at least 2-3 or more staffers running around the kitchen, cooking with her,. which is way too many.  

 

My last nitpick about Sookie's kitchen goes back, once again, to the island.  It's like whomever was directing the episode thought that kitchens are full of platters and desserts, when they are always put neatly away in coolers, freezers, or dry storage.  A good kitchen is one where it is difficult to find the food.

[txhorns79]

First of all, that shit gets wrapped in plastic and put in the cooler for health code and food preservation reasons, secondly, no one, and I mean no one, can eat off of a platter for guests, and thirdly, HOW COULD SOOKIE LET SOMEONE PUT THEIR GRUBBY PAWS ON THE FOOD??

 

I agree about doubting that someone like Sookie is going to let people put their hands on the food.  As to the food itself appearing, I chalk that up to tv.  They wanted to show what a wonderful chef Sookie was, so they showed us the food as well.  Had it been the other way, I can imagine the complaint would be something like: "They always say what a great chef Sookie is, but she never actually seems to make anything."   

 

 

I had to stop one which had essentially created a magic Luke, who could solve everyone's problems effortlessly, in full tux and dancing backward.

 

Paris groaned and opened her eyes.  She had too much Founders' Day punch.  As she sat up in bed, she used a sheet to cover herself and gazed around wearily to try to adjust her eyes to her surroundings.  A bright early morning sun shone through the windows.  Paris' eyes darted around the room, taking in details.  All she could make out was that the walls were covered with pictures of someone she did not recognize in various dance poses.  The bed suddenly shifted, and Paris turned to see an older woman, wrapped in a caftan, lying in the bed, staring intently at her.   

 

"Good morning, lover."  Miss Patty purred. 

 

Fade to credits.   

Edited November 4, 2014 by txhorns79

[junienmomo]

Paris groaned and opened her eyes....

 

 

O.M.G. Words fail me. ROTFLMAO

 

On Sookie:

Forget about Sookie not letting other people touch the food. In S1 I would have shut HER down for health violations. She had open wounds, for goodness' sake. 

On S1 Luke:

As much as it pains me to say something bad about my beloved Lucas, receiving my diner bill freshly pulled out of his crotch area is a little over the top. 

[BC Mama]

On S1 Luke:

As much as it pains me to say something bad about my beloved Lucas, receiving my diner bill freshly pulled out of his crotch area is a little over the top. 

 

Another season one Luke nitpick is how in the early days, Luke is a great diner chef, but clearly not a gourmet! In Emily in Wonderland, Emily asks how his caesar salad dressing is prepared, and he replies that he'll have to ask Paul Newman! But, by season 5 and 6 he has the talent of a gourmet chef, who is even able to impress Sookie with his pork chops! 

[Luciano]

Whenever they're in a scene in the kitchen at either inn with Sookie, there are always fantastic concoctions or massive fruit/food platters all over the island and counters, with people like Lorelai PICKING OFF OF THEM WITH THEIR HANDS. First of all, that shit gets wrapped in plastic and put in the cooler for health code and food preservation reasons, secondly, no one, and I mean no one, can eat off of a platter for guests, and thirdly, HOW COULD SOOKIE LET SOMEONE PUT THEIR GRUBBY PAWS ON THE FOOD??

I remember that scene where her old chef friend comes over for a visit and he starts chopping vegetables without even washing his hands. He had been outside just 2 minutes earlier. Ick.

[larapu2000]

Also, because it can't be said enough, the totally bullshit "we can't get financial aid because of the $75,000" that Richard gifted to Lorelai, at a time when it would not have been on her FAFSA form that she filled out for Rory.  Also, Rory can fill out her own FAFSA forms.  And with Ivy League schools, their endowments are so ridiculously large, that everyone gets grants and other financial aid unless you're a rich fancy pants.  She was the valedictorian of a prestigious private school and got no scholarships from Yale either?  

 

It's like television and movie writers never attended college themselves. My parents always made a decent living, but when my sister and I were in college at the same time, the government practically threw free money at us, and I went to a state school.  Lorelai carrying on about not wanting Rory to have loads of student debt when she got out of college is soooooo stupid, it's like free money (if you get the Stafford loans, not the private student loans) because of the ridiculously low interest rate, and she would have known that Rory would be getting a trust fund from Richard and Emily some day, so Rory could pay back her debt then if she chose to do so.

 

I know it was a plot device intended to carry on the Friday night dinners, but a really great, nice thing to do for character development would have been for Rory and Lorelai to keep doing the FND because they wanted to.  Oy.

[Taryn74]

HOW COULD SOOKIE LET SOMEONE PUT THEIR GRUBBY PAWS ON THE FOOD??

 

 

I handwaved most of that away for the sake of TV land.  The one that really got to me, though, was ATOPAF when there was a cat in the kitchen.  Of the Inn.  Where they prepare and serve food to paying guests. 

 

OMG.

[Kohola3]

What happened to the Rory Gilmore Science Center building or whatever the heck it was called that the elder Gilmores were going to build at Yale?  It was mentioned once and then never again.

 

Something like that would cost multi-millions to build.  I know the Gilmores are wealthy but I can't see even a high level insurance executive having that kind of money.  The whole idea was ludicrous.  In more ways than one.

[txhorns79]

Something like that would cost multi-millions to build.  I know the Gilmores are wealthy but I can't see even a high level insurance executive having that kind of money.  The whole idea was ludicrous.  In more ways than one.

 

I was thinking it was family money that would finance that thing.  I got the impression that while Emily and Richard were well off, Trix was uber-wealthy (just from the mentions of her having donated a wing at the hospital and having houses in Connecticut and London), so perhaps Richard and Emily inherited a sizable chunk of change when she died. 

 

But you were right that it seemed like a giant waste of money to donate all that money to Yale.

Edited November 5, 2014 by txhorns79

[junienmomo]

Well the Huntzbergers were positioned as Rupert Murdoch, so the Gilmores could well have assets in the many millions, particularly after Richard inherited. I don't see their lifestyle in any way as a billionaire's lifestyle.

 

As to a waste of money to donate to Yale, that was the way of the Gilmore society. Put your money where you want it, not where it will do the most good. 

[txhorns79]

As to a waste of money to donate to Yale, that was the way of the Gilmore society. Put your money where you want it, not where it will do the most good.

 

I meant more of a waste in terms of the donation seeming random and disconnected to anything involving its namesake.  For example, if they donated a new building for the English department, I could see how that would relate to Rory.  As it was, the Lorelai Gilmore Planetarium was a little strange.