Nitpicking

[takalotti]

As to the townies not knowing the date that Luke's father died, I never thought it was surprising. Do people generally recall the anniversaries of the deaths of people outside their immediate circle of family and close friends? And not meaning to be cold, but why would they remember? It wasn't a shocking event and  he had been ill for some time. Did the family even have a funeral (with all the attendant town rituals) or was he just quietly buried beside his wife?

Normally, I'd agree that it shouldn't be surprising for the townies not to know the date of William Danes' passing. But the way (my memory of) the episode played it out, Patty treated Luke's dark day like this big unsolvable mystery no one had ever been able to figure out despite all their best efforts at digging up intel. If they really were as curious as they seemed, it wouldn't have been so difficult to figure it out.

[dustylil]

I agree completely takalotti.  It was just taking issue with the idea that townies would know the date that Luke's father died.

 

Also, given Luke's habit of being somewhat economical with the truth - especially on emotional issues - when it suited him, we don't know if he would have admitted  the accuracy of a link had anybody broached the subject with him over the years. The "mystery" may have been solved  but the solution denied.  

[Artsda]

 

As to the townies not knowing the date that Luke's father died, I never thought it was surprising. Do people generally recall the anniversaries of the deaths of people outside their immediate circle of family and close friends?

This is a town that celebrates everything basically in the town history, including the most quirkiest and oddest things. For this town, I think it didn't make sense. They dumbed everyone down to make the day sound like a huge mysterious thing "ooh Luke's dark day, he can't go anywhere that day." Just to have Lorelai try and put the mystery together and get the information from Luke. Patty knows everything, she would have figured out the reason for the "dark day" in a minute instead they have it this mystery nobody's known or figured out for decades?

 

The Danes were originals in Stars Hollow, with all the hoops and drama Luke went through for his uncle's funeral (that the towns members also knew) to have him buried next to his dad and have people pay their respects, it doesn't make any sense at all people like Taylor etc.. wouldn't know or remember the time frame that William passed. He owned the town hardware store, he was a public figure everyone knew. 

[readster]

This is a town that celebrates everything basically in the town history, including the most quirkiest and oddest things. For this town, I think it didn't make sense. They dumbed everyone down to make the day sound like a huge mysterious thing "ooh Luke's dark day, he can't go anywhere that day." Just to have Lorelai try and put the mystery together and get the information from Luke. Patty knows everything, she would have figured out the reason for the "dark day" in a minute instead they have it this mystery nobody's known or figured out for decades?

 

The Danes were originals in Stars Hollow, with all the hoops and drama Luke went through for his uncle's funeral (that the towns members also knew) to have him buried next to his dad and have people pay their respects, it doesn't make any sense at all people like Taylor etc.. wouldn't know or remember the time frame that William passed. He owned the town hardware store, he was a public figure everyone knew. 

 

 It was the classic: "We have to make everyone else stupid for the story to work" plot device because that's exactly what it was. I figured out it had to do with Luke's parents or one of the parents from the get go. I mean this from the town knowing about the "rift" between Lorelai and Rory about 5 minutes after it happened. I mean, come on!

[Kohola3]

I bet nobody asked East Side Tilly.  She apparently knew everything milliseconds after it happened..

[pinklemonade]

Brought to you by my season 7 re-watch. (I don't hate it, don't hate me.) In Unto the Breach in the opening scene Lorelai and Sookie go to Weston's to pick up the cake, and don't actually pick up the cake!!! They go in, Lorelai says hi I'm here to pick up the cake, she pays, and they just leave as she says well that's done. But you don't have the cake! It gets me every time. 

[readster]

Brought to you by my season 7 re-watch. (I don't hate it, don't hate me.) In Unto the Breach in the opening scene Lorelai and Sookie go to Weston's to pick up the cake, and don't actually pick up the cake!!! They go in, Lorelai says hi I'm here to pick up the cake, she pays, and they just leave as she says well that's done. But you don't have the cake! It gets me every time. 

Exactly! Was this an invisible cake? Like Wonder Woman's invisible jet in the Smithsonian? What a great cake! You can't see it and no calories!

[Artsda]

I never understood the cake picking up either! She paid, said she had to pick it up, they stroll out sans cake. I was so confused if I missed something and it was really she had to pay for the cake.

[junienmomo]

...and i'm not sure if this is so much a nitpick as a gripe, but does anyone else think Lorelei is really insensitive at the end of "A Messenger, Nothing More"? 

Yes, but she shows insensitivity frequently.

• Half the things she says to her mother
• Sookie having to sit high in the concert even though she got the tickets. All so Rory could improve her social standing at Chilton
• Being "all in" with Luke, but still secretly seeing Chris when she knows it's a sensitive topic (I describe this as insensitive only when I'm feeling kindly towards Lorelai, otherwise it's a sign that she's not girlfriend material for any decent man)

[readster]

Lorelai has constantly been insensitive about things. She gets it from Emily who thinks she can say what she wants and the world will bow to her ideology. That's one of the main reasons why the two couldn't ever see eye to eye, they are way a like. 

[lottiedottie]

I'm sure this has been talked about ad nauseum but the set dressing is laughable--I just watched A Vineyard Valentine...and I'm seriously supposed to believe they ate outside in the dead of winter?  And the vibrant green, fully-leaved trees when they are back in Stars Hollow? Come on show, it's like you're not even trying!

[moonb]

Yeah, I've only rewatched A Vineyard Valentine once, and I didn't get all the way through it, but yes. Martha's Vineyard, in Massachusetts? In mid-February? Sure, nice time for a walk on the beach. It seemed like GG was confusing New England for maybe Virginia or Florida.

[lottiedottie]

I assume this is a nitpick rather than general episode chat, but OMFG. I can't stand Taylor. That guy is a world class asshole and I can't believe that Luke doesn't beat the shit out of him for the stupid crap he has pulled. I just started season 7, and the incident where Kirk drives Taylor's car into the diner because Taylor insisted on a traffic camera? How did Luke not lose his shit over that? Any scene with Taylor raises my blood pressure. Annoying fucker. 

 

That's what I think is most bothersome about this show--it tries to present the various interpersonal relationships to reflect actual issues people would have (mother/daughter, boyfriend/girlfriend, neighbors etc) but the stuff that some of these people, like Taylor, get away with is so OTT and unrealistic.

[solotrek]

How did Luke not lose his shit over that?

 

He did kind of lose his shit, but at that point murder aside, not much else Luke could have done. I think Kirk making the makeshift Kirk's across the street and not seeing how awful that was (ie. not at all thinking of helping Luke with repairs or paying Luke for the lost business) was much more annoying to me.

[lottiedottie]

He did kind of lose his shit, but at that point murder aside, not much else Luke could have done. I think Kirk making the makeshift Kirk's across the street and not seeing how awful that was (ie. not at all thinking of helping Luke with repairs or paying Luke for the lost business) was much more annoying to me.

It just seems like no one ever calls Taylor out on his bullshit. God, he is such an annoying character. HATE him! LOL

[Aloeonatable]

Taylor would probably sue.

[junienmomo]

Taylor's lucky Luke didn't sue or evict him in season 4 when Taylor installed the window from the ice cream store to the diner.

After being so sensitive to his father's belongings in season 1 during the spruce, it's OOC for Luke to not at least go searching for the stolen items. There was a whole friggin' wall of his dad's hardware store stuff including, I presume, the dancing pork chop. Poof gone, and Luke didn't do a thing about it except yell once.

Stupid way for the writers to expand/remodel the diner's main 'stage.'

[readster]

 

It just seems like no one ever calls Taylor out on his bullshit. God, he is such an annoying character. HATE him! LOL

 

 Taylor's got worst and worst as the series went and the went with Kirk. Seriously and the town's reason for letting Taylor getting away with all of this crap over the year? Gypsy: "He has some good ideas most of the time, he's our Papa Doc." Which I believe was one of the stupidest things ever said. Also, when they said his position was Town Selectman, ok this is how this works: The Board of Selectmen (BOS) is similar to a Town or City Council.  However, there are some differences in the powers and responsibilities of a Board of Selectmen and a Town Council depending on the Town Charter and State Statutes.  For example, the BOS may be the legislative body for the Town if the town has a town meeting form of government.  Since Waterford has a Representative Town Meeting,(RTM), the RTM is the legislative body in town.  In Waterford the First Selectman is a full time elected official paid $91,141.02 annually and the two Selectmen are part time elected officials that are paid a stipend of $1,552.96 annually for their service. unless the First Selectman is specifically granted the particular authority.  In particular, all contracts must be approved by the BOS and then signed by the First Selectman except for the Board of Education and some contracts that other Boards, such as the Utility Commission, are permitted to execute.   In administering the Town, the First Selectman acts in the name of the BOS.  The BOS is also charged with ratifying the Capital Improvements Plan developed by the First Selectman. The Charter also empowers the BOS to make appointments to the following boards and commissions:  Planning & Zoning Commission; Building Board of Appeals; Flood and Erosion Control Board; Recreation and Parks Commission.

Other responsibilities of the BOS in the Code of Ordinances include:  review all departmental budgets; review Town Agreements with outside towns, boards, and commissions; accept or reject bids with and without prejudice; approve the disposition of surplus Town property by the Purchasing Agent; approve disposition of Real Estate Town Property whose value is less than $10,000; accept or reject any bids on Town Property; approve the First Selectman’s Fleet Management Plan for the next fiscal year; approve special assessments for highway improvements; establish regulations regarding bulky waste and recyclable collections; issue licenses for mass gatherings of more than two hundred persons; direct snow removal from specified unaccepted streets; maintain a set of technical specifications and guidelines for restoring utility trench excavations within Town right of ways and provide the guidelines to the RTM.  When the BOS performs these functions is determined by the First Selectman who sets the agenda for BOS meetings.

 

  So, apparently Taylor was granted special power by the Mayor to pull all of this crap off over the last 7 years. Some of the stuff Taylor did like the summer festival or winter lights were well into his power. Getting zoning rights and property ownership for his business, also within his rights but if you look at all the other crap he did like spending money on stupid things he did made no sense. Not to mention he was THE ONLY SELECTMAN. All towns need at least three unless otherwise changed by the city council. The mayor can't grant there be only one person in charge of all that. Of course if Taylor was making around 90K a year, I don't think I would want to get out of office either. Of course, we knew Taylor was married, his mother was still alive, he had kids somewhere and his brother was married with a family. Yet, apparently he had nothing better to do than be a dick to everyone, especially Luke and Kirk followed him around and did his bidding like Taylor was him pimp.

[Artsda]

The worst was when he tried to stop them from renovating The Dragon Fly, he was just bitter and awful to Lorelai who just wanted to make a business and bring a run down place back to life. 

 

I never felt sorry for him when he didn't get a single town vote or was sitting alone in the store. Everyone showed their disdain for him and it still didn't make him change.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Artsda

[readster]

I also hated his reasons for not wanting the Dragonfly renovated because it would harm a historical piece. I'm like, what? It was a ran down business that closed for several reasons. Lorelai, Sookie and Luke poured a lot of money into that and came up with an incredible building and business design. Granted, Lorelai didn't know a thing about money management but still. Not only did she forecast breaking even but the place became a bigger success than she had planned and made the money back. Though we never heard if Luke was paid or not it was Taylor's job since the Dragonfly sat as a business property, which as I explained his job to determine property sales and business and residential uses his reasons for trying to keep from being renovated were completely absurd. If Stars Hollow would have been a real place, the Mayor would have removed him from office because leaving the Dragonfly to rot would have brought down property taxes and business venue prices. He was so stupid and of course, Kirk tried to help him. The man had no brain his head it was: "Ok Taylor, tell me how high to jump!"

[Artsda]

I always found him shady and thought he wanted the Inn for himself. He should have been trying to help them get an old structure looking great again, instead he just did the opposite. Some of his ideas were just moronic, like the traffic camera when there hasn't been an accident in a decade. He on one hand claims to want to keep Sleepy Hollow true to historic roots then the other he wants Big Brother watching intersections when there's no reasons.

 

I wish they would have had Madeline and Louise share scenes or met up with Colin and Finn. I could picture the 4 of them being hilarious to watch in scenes. It kind of felt like in the later seasons Colin and Finn replaced Madeline and Louise's spots on canvas. Instead of Paris's sidekick's, we got Logan's. 

Edited April 8, 2015 by Artsda

[readster]

Taylor was just power hungry and loved it when he got his way and the town just fell over agreeing to his half assed ideas. I mean they were really bad. I agree with Madeline and Louise but that was also due to them working on other shows (two which failed and two which they got fired from). Why Colin and Finn were brought into the series too. They wanted Logan to have the 2.0 versions because they wrote off Rory and Paris's roommates becoming the "new" Madeline and Louise despite positive reaction from critics and fans of the show. Because they wanted to focus on the affair and Paris losing it from Fletcher dying. Of course as we saw that was a big disaster in the end and when the actresses who played Madeline and Louise were busy with other shows Colin and Finn were shoved front and center and then Rory got her college sidekicks. 

[blackCatCollins]

rewatching Lorelei out of Water- Taylor is making EXTENSIVE renovations to the building before Luke signs the lease. in what world is that a) legal and b) something Luke would allow?

Edited April 18, 2015 by blackCatCollins

[junienmomo]

rewatching Lorelei out of Water- Taylor is making EXTENSIVE renovations to the building before Luke signs the lease. in what world is that a) legal and b) something Luke would allow?

The most likely reason is that Taylor did whatever the hell he felt like. However, it's plausible, especially in a small town, that the landlord would allow renovations to start before the paperwork was finished. 

Certainly Luke had already indicated that he wouldn't be a friendly landlord, however, TPTB were already shredding Luke's character so badly that he was rapidly becoming a noisy doormat. 

The guy with the crazy good looks and L/L chemistry in S1, who actively parented Jess in S2 by banning cigarettes and more was being beaten down by Jess and others by S3.

By S4 things had gotten so bad that Luke just yelled but did nothing when Taylor put that window between the diner and the soda shop. All of his father's things that he so lovingly preserved in S1 just disappeared without any comment. Stupid TPTB decision.

[John Potts]

Another thing that bugged me about "Taylor the Dictator" - when he tells Jackson that he has to move his greenhouse 2 inches, why would anyone respond by "Well I will run against you as Dictator of Stars Hollow!" WTF? Wouldn't your first response be "How can we remove that town ordenence?" (well, the first would be asking Taylor if he could overlook that rule, but that was always going to be a non-starter). Yes, if there really was no other way to change it other than changing the man at the top, fine, but presumably there was some way of altering the town's laws. Really it was a dropped thread because once Jackson wins it's never heard of again and Taylor resumes his duties. Couldn't we have seen Jackson finding it was a huge, nagging burden of petty responsibility and eventually quit it?

[LeafontheWind]

Another thing that bugged me about "Taylor the Dictator" - when he tells Jackson that he has to move his greenhouse 2 inches, why would anyone respond by "Well I will run against you as Dictator of Stars Hollow!" WTF? Wouldn't your first response be "How can we remove that town ordenence?" (well, the first would be asking Taylor if he could overlook that rule, but that was always going to be a non-starter). Yes, if there really was no other way to change it other than changing the man at the top, fine, but presumably there was some way of altering the town's laws. Really it was a dropped thread because once Jackson wins it's never heard of again and Taylor resumes his duties. Couldn't we have seen Jackson finding it was a huge, nagging burden of petty responsibility and eventually quit it?

I am pretty sure we did have a few instances where Jackson was shown to hate his selectman duties. There was once episode where he won't go into a store (I think Taylor's market to get Sookie's crazy pregnancy food requests?) because he is afraid of bumping into people who have been nagging him about stuff they want. Lorelai offers to go for him, but only in exchange for something she wants from him. And he says "Et tu, Brute?" (I am sure I butchered the spelling there) implying that even his friends have betrayed him now that he is the guy in charge. There is another time that Lorelai tries to get him to sign some papers pretending they are produce orders when they are really selectman approvals, and then Sookie says she can forge his signature instead.

Not saying that makes this a fleshed out storyline or anything, but his frustration with the position was addressed a little before Jackson up and quit.

Edited April 23, 2015 by LeafontheWind

[dustylil]

As LeafontheWind states, it is in both We Got Us A Pippi Virgin and Emily Says Hello that we learn of Jackson's woes as town Selectman. Although I don't think it was ever made clear how Taylor resumed his post. Perhaps it was like a beauty pageant where if for any reason the winner can't fulfil the duties of the position, the job  goes to the runner-up.

Edited April 23, 2015 by dustylil

[readster]

As LeafontheWind states, it is in both We Got Us A Pippi Virgin and Emily Says Hello that we learn of Jackson's woes as town Selectman. Although I don't think it was ever made clear how Taylor resumed his post. Perhaps it was like a beauty pageant where if for any reason the winner can't fulfil the duties of the position, the job  goes to the runner-up.

 

 It was actually suppose to be in Emily Says Hello where Jackson basically comes into Taylor's store saying he is giving him his job back. The scene was cut from the script originally because the episode was too long. Of course as a result, Taylor was just magically Selectman again. That was also one of the few times that they actually did what a town selectman really does in real life. The drawing of district lines, papers for property, ect. It felt like all of a sudden the writers wanted to put in that Taylor really did have a job to do but then decided to go back to: "Taylor the Dictator" because they didn't want to try and do both the build up and resolution to Jackson having his job. It was so rushed and as I said, it was cut from the script on how it was resolved. I also hated how Taylor wanted things just done not talk, no professional meetings or anything. He just wanted something, the town wanted him to shut up and go away so they agreed on his stuff. It made Stars Hollow look extremely stupid and it was old after season 2. 

[zentero]

I have been watching and rewatching and of course the more you watch the more you can nitpick.  I found it odd that Luke and Lorelai sleep on different sides of the bed at different times.  Don't most couples choose a side of the bed and always sleep on that side?  Also the lack of PDA is just about ok except that Lorelai walked down the street holding hands with both Christopher and Max...but never with Luke.  Why?  And...Luke was dressed nicely most of the series even though in plaid but by season 7, the plaid became one colour and insipid and his make-up or lack of it made him look washed out.  His eyes which were quite a feature and very nice in the past became small and un-noteworthy.

[junienmomo]

Given my meager understanding of the showrunners, I believe that the PDA of those three relationships were carefully choreographed:

• Max the teacher/father figure/Ken doll for the perfect fantasy wedding 
• Christopher as the eternal playmate - fun and laughs all the time, but no substance for building a real-life partnership
• Luke - the "One True Pairing" as it's called, was intended to be grounded in their friendship

I also think that Lorelai adapted emotionally to her current partner, IMO one of her big flaws, because she didn't state what she wanted, and when she did, it tended to backfire. Think a thousand yellow daisies, or the elopement ultimatum.

TPTB were not good at writing L/L as the shippers wanted them to be written. I tend to believe that's because ASP didn't even have the OTP Luke as a male character in her basic story. She simply had other plans for the story, perhaps, as amensisterfriend has suggested, the GG were not meant to exit the series with OTP at all.

When it became clear that commercial viability required an OTP, the Palladinos needed to respond in order to keep the series going. This they did rather poorly, damaging both Lorelai's and Luke's characters in the process.

In terms of the Lorelai character arc, I see following:

• The Max relationship demonstrated the flaws in Lorelai's ability to keep to her promise that she would never impact Rory's life with her love life
• The Christopher relationship was intended to help Lorelai recognize that she wouldn't really want the fantasy of the nuclear family with Chris as the head
• The Luke relationship showed how unprepared Lorelai was for an adult relationship (also true for Luke, but my comment here is about Lorelai as the protagonist)

 

The season 7 look and feel was on purpose, I believe, for both Lorelai the Stepford wife to Chris, and Luke in his decline from the "glory" that was the OTP.

Edited April 25, 2015 by junienmomo

[txhorns79]

The Max relationship demonstrated the flaws in Lorelai's ability to keep to her promise that she would never impact Rory's life with her love life

 

I think that promise was more about how Lorelai would never involve Rory in her dating unless the relationship became serious.  I mean, I don't see how it would be possible to reasonably promise that Rory's life would never be impacted by her mother's love life, unless Lorelai literally intended never to have a love life again. 

[zentero]

Wow...thanks for the perspective junienmomo.  Very interesting and what a shame.

[tyrolean]

I´m just rewatching "A messenger, nothing more": Lorelai is at Luke´s and looks at the postcards Rory sent. There is one with the Picture of Trinitá dei Monti in Rome, even though in the next scene Rory and Emily are just arriving in Rome...

[dustylil]

With respect,  would postcards of that venue only be available in Rome? Or could Rory buy them elsewhere? Given that Emily and Rory had already been in Italy for some time and  how well organized Rory was purported to be, could she not have picked up such postcards beforehand? I know I sometimes do that when travelling. After all, she had been in Rome previously and she probably knew which sites had special meaning for her (or for those to whom she was sending the cards).

Edited May 2, 2015 by dustylil

[GreenScreenFX]

I am honestly NOT trying to troll... I thought Taylor was gay and everyone knew it. Did I miss something? He wasn't "out" but certainly not hiding.

[GreenScreenFX]

Taylor was the gayest gay to ever gay...I cant even gay

And I'm gay

[junienmomo]

I am honestly NOT trying to troll... I thought Taylor was gay and everyone knew it. Did I miss something? He wasn't "out" but certainly not hiding.

 

GG was undeniably weird with respect to stereotypes of sexual orientation. Several arguably gay/bi stereotypes that never outed themselves (Michel, and Gypsy for example), Christopher a metrosexual, Jackson - well whatever Jackson was, and the heteros Morey, Dean, Jess, Luke and Logan. Actually, now that I think of it, most of the Yale guys seemed to have fairly normal hetero stereotypes.

The only female gay stereotype besides Gypsy was the woman in the Festival of Living Art, and the jokes there were simply cruel and totally unnecessary to the story. One of the real low points for the GG series.

[txhorns79]

I am honestly NOT trying to troll... I thought Taylor was gay and everyone knew it. Did I miss something? He wasn't "out" but certainly not hiding.

 

I would say the show sometimes suggested, through the use of stereotypes, that some characters may be gay, but never delved into the issue head on.    

Edited May 2, 2015 by txhorns79

[junienmomo]

In the pilot, about 27 minutes in, when Lorelai and Rory are arguing in the diner, Lorelai's burger makes more rotations than Linda Blair's head in the Exorcist. With tomato, without, turned here, turned there, I was totally distracted when I noticed it.

[JayInChicago]

It makes me want a hamburger!

[JayInChicago]

In Kill Me Now, Cinnamon the cat is a he.

In Cinnamon's Wake, Cinnamon is a she...

[takalotti]

Postmortem sex change!

[dustylil]

Of course in Kill Me Now Trix is quite dead. She too has a post-mortem transformation.

[JayInChicago]

And then she gets reincarnated as that weird cousin! Trix got around.

[dustylil]

New incarnations were kind of common in the series. Mick, Drella, Mrs. Traister, Sasha as well as Trix, (and I may be missing a few) all came back as different people :)

[Iseut]

Do we ever hear anything more about April's other potential dads? If Anna and Luke were in a long term relationship, it seems a little odd that she'd have slept with two other men in close enough proximity so as not to know who fathered her child. Or did she just give April some random names to make the science project feel more dramatic? Then those guys must have been REALLY freaked out when April approached them. Also, wouldn't Anna have any qualms about the whole school knowing she was a prime candidate for the Maury Povich show?

[lulu1960]

One of friends of Colin and Finn I believe was a SH student at one point in an earlier incarnation

[readster]

Do we ever hear anything more about April's other potential dads? If Anna and Luke were in a long term relationship, it seems a little odd that she'd have slept with two other men in close enough proximity so as not to know who fathered her child. Or did she just give April some random names to make the science project feel more dramatic? Then those guys must have been REALLY freaked out when April approached them. Also, wouldn't Anna have any qualms about the whole school knowing she was a prime candidate for the Maury Povich show?

 

 You would think that wouldn't you? We were also to think that Anna said Luke was going to be a deadbeat dad and he said she might have been right. Since when?

[txhorns79]

We were also to think that Anna said Luke was going to be a deadbeat dad and he said she might have been right. Since when?

 

Did she say he was going to be a deadbeat dad or just that he didn't like kids? 

[dustylil]

Just that he didn't like kids. He initially denied that he felt that way but then Anna proceeded to list all the anti-child things he had said or done when they were seeing one another. At that point, he agreed that she may have been right.

 

Also, Anna didn't give April the names of potential fathers. Anna seemingly knew all along that it was Luke. For whatever reason, the whole paternal parent issue was never discussed between mother and daughter. April  herself gleaned the three names from reading old letters.

Edited May 8, 2015 by dustylil