MAFS Social Media, Spoilers & Speculation

[psychoticstate]

On 10/4/2016 at 0:01 AM, ctbabe said:

I am thinking maybe the show purchased the tickets but they were not responsible for the entertainment. Sonia hosting a party, meeting up with Jaime and Tom hosting them on a boat wasn't a producer or show driven thing. 

 

I am thinking Neil had a worse experience than Heather did and was still able to remain friends with everyone. I just think it shows the kind of person she is. Despite Derek's habits and lashing out, I don't think he is a bad person at all. I believe he would be a very loyal friend. There is a reason why everyone on the show is close to him, they definitely must see what we don't since they are insiders.

Also to people saying he is playing the victim. I don't get that. After the 'long selection' process and preparing of one's mind to get married on a reality show, it would be devastating to be dumped on tv after 10 days because of one's bad habit, without given the chance to grow and change. Instead of going offcamera to mend, he is thrown on camera and constantly asked how he feels. It must be difficult, i empathize with him. He is human. 

I also read comments abt him not taking ownership of his behavior. If after reading the post episode's interviews, watching the show and following him on SM, you still don't think he blames himself for the demise of the marriage, I have no comments. I think he blames Heather for giving up too quickly. It's like you sign up for a 6weeks job, do you quit  after 10days because you have a 'terrible' coworker or manager? Nope. You express out your concerns, manage the situation and exit after 6weeks. Just my thought 

I totally agree with you.  

Neil had a pretty bad experience but he stuck in there and honored his commitment.

I don't get the massive Derek hate. I don't know if it's people who just didn't like him from the get go or what but I feel more sorry for him than I do for Heather.  I don't think he tried to force anything on her; it just seems as though she shut down immediately after the wedding and decided it wasn't going to work, for whatever reason.  If it was a pot issue, I get it.  I don't smoke and it would bother me.  But if that's the case, she should have been very specific with the "experts."  I would have said that was a deal breaker for me. 

I'm not saying that some of the comments and actions made by Derek are okay but I do understand where they were probably coming from.  He was matched, he just got married and then to have your new wife (a STRANGER!) act as though she wanted nothing to do with you, didn't even want to get to know you or talk to you unless she was hammered, I would be upset, frustrated and angry too.  She was condescending of him on day one or two of the honeymoon; it was doomed from the start.

I'm curious to know exactly what behavior is he not taking ownership of?  What do people want him to do?  Admit he shouldn't have made the milk comment?  Did he say he was sorry?  I honestly don't remember.

But what about Heather?  Shouldn't she apologize to him for not even giving the relationship a chance? 

I don't know - - it's a two way street and at least Derek was willing to stick it out for the six weeks and try.

[ctbabe]

48 minutes ago, psychoticstate said:

If it was a pot issue, I get it.  I don't smoke and it would bother me.  But if that's the case, she should have been very specific with the "experts."  I would have said that was a deal breaker for me. 

I totally agree with everything you said. My issue is IF smoking pot was a deal breaker, why give him permission to attempt the deal breaker? Derek did an interview where he discussed this. 

http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/married-at-first-sights-derek-divorcing-heather-was-terrible-w440364

The key note:

'The account executive feels he was "honest and open and remained true to myself throughout the process." And he finds it "strange" that Seidel had such an issue with his smoking, since he says he "asked her about it on the first night, and she did not seem to have a problem with it."

However, he says she "later told me that she determined on her own that I [smoked] too much. When I asked why she didn't tell me she felt like that [initially], she explained that she decided to test me instead to see what I would do."

Why TEST someone with something she hayes that much and it's the dealbreaker? That's so wrong.. 

[gonecrackers]

1 minute ago, ctbabe said:

Why TEST someone with something she hayes that much and it's the dealbreaker? That's so wrong.. 

I kind of get that - she didn't know him at all so maybe she just left it to him to see what he thought of as occasional. Daily, to me, especially waking up to it everyday, is an addiction & is not occasional. If anything I'd love to see the questions they answered because usually they somewhat define it, like, once or twice a week, once a day, etc.

I could've been okay with Derek if he hadn't been so nasty in his lashing out. Except for her 'classy' comment, she hasn't once insulted him to his face (that we've seen), to the 'experts', or in any TH's. He, however, was lashing out not just about her but was insulting to all women. As far as I know he never apologized for anything. Did he ever even take any responsibility for the breakdown of the process between them, because I missed it if he did. All I've seen of him besides the behavior I already mentioned has been him moping, whining & complaining about Heather. I understand if he was hurt, but how someone handles difficult emotions says a lot about their character.

I think I would've left too just because I would not want to be yelled at anymore. They're strangers & he's already comfy yelling at her; who wants to deal with that toxicity?  No one, I think, except for Sonia I guess...

[Evil Queen]

Remember what is said is what he is saying. He has shown us he will lie if it suits him. He lied to the "expert" about Heather texting him back. Which I think he figured it would suit some sort of pity for him and the "expert" would get into it with Heather in some way for it. Yet Heather stated to the Pastor what she said exactly and he looked a little taken aback but we never say him question Derek on why he would lie. As for the smoking he isn't even saying what he asked was ok to smoke. He could have said nothing to say it was pot and just started lighting that up. She could have given him the benefit of the doubt and hoped it was one time and that was it but first thing ever morning there he was with it. I think if it had been a cigarette it wouldn't have ended up a big deal but the fact is no matter what if Derek isn't getting his way he will start whining and showing his true colors. I also think its more to it then just the smoking. Maybe it was how he handled himself after that but I still think there is more to it we are not being told. It was enough to just be over. Sometimes there is no giving someone a chance depending on what happens or how someone behaves. I can imagine each of us has deal breakers we wouldn't be able to get past no matter what else we might see that we like about that person. BTW, he is still high in his scenes. Even with meeting Heather and Rachel, he was high there. The guy is so not an occasional user. As gonecrackers, said he is the only one whining and complaining still. He hasn't said a nice thing about Heather at all. When he doesn't like things because its not his way he starts acting like a kid having a tantrum. His saying she should have had the divorce papers was a great example of that too. He has made it pretty clear in a past episode why his relationships don't last too. He never takes responsibility for his part of things but puts it on everyone else. With this he has not once apologized for his behavior or actions. He has never said anything about what he could have done different during the short time with Heather. He has blamed her for it all because she wouldn't give him more of a chance. I think the chance she gave him saw who he truly was and that was it. It wasn't a good guy that just once in a great while got high but a man child that doesn't know how to go through a day without his high and how to talk/treat women. Isn't he the one that said he wanted to be married so he could change himself or something along those lines?

[psychoticstate]

1 hour ago, ctbabe said:

Why TEST someone with something she hayes that much and it's the dealbreaker? That's so wrong.. 

Agree, 100%.  Testing someone is bullshit.  You are setting that person up for failure.  

If Heather makes it a practice to test someone immediately, it would be no wonder that her relationships don't work. 

[jenrising]

But that's his version of the story, and as we've seen, Derek filters everything that happens between them through his "I'm open and wonderful and she's not fair to me" POV.

10 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

I kind of get that - she didn't know him at all so maybe she just left it to him to see what he thought of as occasional. Daily, to me, especially waking up to it everyday, is an addiction & is not occasional. If anything I'd love to see the questions they answered because usually they somewhat define it, like, once or twice a week, once a day, etc.

Yep. The so-called "test" was a chance to see if it was going to be a problem. Her trying to be open-minded. But then if he smoked every single day it would become clear this wasn't a casual thing but a serious habit. There's a world of difference between the two. 

[Jellybeans]

Ugh.."testing" someone smacks of game playing.  

[gonecrackers]

1 hour ago, jenrising said:

But that's his version of the story, and as we've seen, Derek filters everything that happens between them through his "I'm open and wonderful and she's not fair to me" POV.

Yep. The so-called "test" was a chance to see if it was going to be a problem. Her trying to be open-minded. But then if he smoked every single day it would become clear this wasn't a casual thing but a serious habit. There's a world of difference between the two. 

Exactly. It's not like she set him up for failure. He went ahead & did what he was going to do &, maybe, what he normally does. She didn't know him at all so she needed to see what he would do to figure out IF this was going to be an issue or not. When she brought it forward as an issue, he became defensive & nasty, again showing his true colors.

Honestly if someone were to show me the worst of them right away (or at least something I couldn't deal with), then I'd see it as a blessing.  This doesn't get dragged out with more chances to hurt each other.

The show won't let them move on & is making Heather out to be the evil one because it's their failure, not the couple, not even Derek's. It's the failure of the show & they can't stand it that someone said this is not right & I'm out.

Edited October 6, 2016 by gonecrackers

[ctbabe]

She set him up for failure. . I don't drink and smoke and I can't tolerate it but I decided to TEST my spouse to see how he would do even though Its my dealbreaker. HOW DOES THIS MAKE SENSE? You give someone the permission to do something you hate then you complain about it.. it either you hate it or not... 

I have read most of the MAFS  interviews and I have seen Derek admit that he was impatient and could have handled things better. From the interview, Derek hasn't lied about anything. He has been open abt everything. Even Rachel said he is authentic. He has been forthcoming abt his shortcomings. Even Pastor Cal, highlighted derek's issues and Derek retweeted the link. Abt the texting issue, he and Jaime cleared it on unfiltered. 

Edited October 6, 2016 by ctbabe

[gonecrackers]

15 minutes ago, ctbabe said:

She set him up for failure. . I don't drink and smoke and I can't tolerate it but I decided to TEST my spouse to see how he would do even though Its my dealbreaker. HOW DOES THIS MAKE SENSE? You give someone the permission to do something you hate then you complain about it.. it either you hate it or not... 

I have read most of the MAFS  interviews and I have seen Derek admit that he was impatient and could have handled things better. From the interview, Derek hasn't lied about anything. He has been open abt everything. Even Rachel said he is authentic. He has been forthcoming abt his shortcomings. Even Pastor Cal, highlighted derek's issues and Derek retweeted the link. Abt the texting issue, he and Jaime cleared it on unfiltered. 

Granted there seems to be a lot that wasn't shown regarding him as well & that's not shocking. I certainly never thought he was lying, although I was concerned about the text thing but okay that was settled. And he did ask if he could smoke. But I still don't see how she set him up for failure. She didn't offer the 'whatever it was' he was smoking; he lit up as often as he did by his own volition. I think the word 'test' was probably an unfortunate choice, as I think it was more of an observing type thing, rather than 'test'. I would be observing someone's behaviors & habits too, especially in that situation. I wonder if he ever admitted his mishandling to Heather; it seems like they'd be on better terms if he was more openly contrite with her.

Since they purposefully coupled someone with a fear of dogs to a two dog owner (& not one 'expert' has yet to explain that), maybe they ignored the 'occasional' here, or something else, to put these two together to create this drama, but it blew up in their faces since she wouldn't play the game with them, like Sonia seems to be doing.

They obviously love drama, & are really milking this one, as well as gotten everyone talking. Mission accomplished.

Edited October 6, 2016 by gonecrackers
forgot words!

[qtpye]

I honestly think what happened is nothing more mysterious then negative attraction.  I have seen it before with one of my friends.  This friend had a guy who was just crazy about her and we all thought he was pretty nice looking decent guy. My friend was almost repulsed by him.

It was not that she thought she was so much better then him, he just was nothing she was into.

I think Heather attraction level for Derek at the wedding was very low.  However, she understood how the brides on this show often get raked over the coals for not finding their grooms immediately attractive, she fibbed and said he was okay.

As she got to know his personality, he became even less appealing to her.  Again, this is not indicative of him having a bad personality, but it was not what she was looking for.

Then she probably was disappointed that he was not more settled in life.  I do not think Heather is a gold digger, but she probably is into a mature ambitious type and he, rightly or wrongly, looked like a loser to her with his wannabe rapper status and his (supposed since it has not been confirmed) pot smoking.

I could tell as a woman, that she was done by the end of the honeymoon.  I knew that when she was pedaling ahead and not putting effort into her appearance, that this was her way of not leading him on, because I had seen it before.

They were both in a no win situation.

It probably was awful for Derek, but from what I understand there are many women on social media who would love to date him, so I think he is going to come out of this situation better then he came in. 

Who knows...maybe his rap career will take off.

[Snarklepuss]

18 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

Agree, 100%.  Testing someone is bullshit.  You are setting that person up for failure.  

If Heather makes it a practice to test someone immediately, it would be no wonder that her relationships don't work. 

I don't agree with this.   Heather wasn't setting him up for failure, she was just seeing what he would do by himself.  It would have been too easy for him to hide the truth from her or minimize it if she let him know how she felt right away.  She just wanted to know where he was coming from.  In that sense, this whole show is a "test" after which the participants decide if they want to stay married.  If the participants let each other know every minute when they didn't like something that would be absurd and counterproductive to forming any kind of relationship.  Sometimes people are just reserving judgment until such time that they have the information they need.  I don't think she was handing him a noose or anything, she was just seeing how much he would engage in the behavior before saying anything, which is probably a wise policy, especially if she didn't want to rush to judgment too soon and ruin something that could have been great.

That said, Heather had a legitimate reason for wanting to know the truth.  Unlike IMO, smarmy Tom who deliberately and self-servingly tests Lilly to see how "materialistic" she is all because he has to soothe his fragile ego from feeling bested by her in terms of a career or whatever it is that threatens him about her and to reassert his superiority over her.  Very different motives between Heather and Tom, IMO.

[gingerandcloves]

27 minutes ago, Snarklepuss said:

 

That said, Heather had a legitimate reason for wanting to know the truth.  Unlike IMO, smarmy Tom who deliberately and self-servingly tests Lilly to see how "materialistic" she is all because he has to soothe his fragile ego from feeling bested by her in terms of a career or whatever it is that threatens him about her and to reassert his superiority over her.  Very different motives between Heather and Tom, IMO.

Ugh, seriously. I was disgusted by the way Tom was acting over dinner, when Lily said she was too busy to write her vows. And after she had given him that very thoughtful gift, too. And he was all, waa-waa-waahh, in the car while she was working. Get over yourself, dude. She throws him a super nice birthday party and gives him a lovely, personal gift and he's all, She doesn't pay attention to meeee! He should be glad he has a sweet, thoughtful, hard-working wife who doesn't mind him spending half his time surfing. 

The flowers bugged me. I have no patience for people who put absolutely no thought into a gift. It has nothing to do with the monetary value of it. I would rather get no gift at all than one with no thought put into it.

[BunnySlippers]

2 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

I don't agree with this.   Heather wasn't setting him up for failure, she was just seeing what he would do by himself.  It would have been too easy for him to hide the truth from her or minimize it if she let him know how she felt right away.  She just wanted to know where he was coming from.  In that sense, this whole show is a "test" after which the participants decide if they want to stay married.  If the participants let each other know every minute when they didn't like something that would be absurd and counterproductive to forming any kind of relationship.  Sometimes people are just reserving judgment until such time that they have the information they need.  I don't think she was handing him a noose or anything, she was just seeing how much he would engage in the behavior before saying anything, which is probably a wise policy, especially if she didn't want to rush to judgment too soon and ruin something that could have been great.

That said, Heather had a legitimate reason for wanting to know the truth.  Unlike IMO, smarmy Tom who deliberately and self-servingly tests Lilly to see how "materialistic" she is all because he has to soothe his fragile ego from feeling bested by her in terms of a career or whatever it is that threatens him about her and to reassert his superiority over her.  Very different motives between Heather and Tom, IMO.

That's exactly what happened with Derek: as soon as he didn't like something, he lashed out at Heather. And look where that got him. But, according to him, it's all Heather's fault.

In this episode, Heather said a few times that she wondered if she'd been too rash with her decision. And, if I understood her correctly, she also said that when Derek had walked in the door for that meeting, she got some of that initial attraction back she'd felt at the wedding. So, yes, she had felt some attraction to him at first. But, again, as soon as it seemed like Heather was a lost cause, Derek lashed out.

I don't even know why they had to have that meeting. And I didn't like Rachel at all. She just felt too eager to have something happen, and her prodding didn't help. I think she just made things worse. And why ask when they wanted to get divorced? What exactly did they want to accomplish with this? Did they think Heather was going to suddenly change her mind? Or did they want the drama (which Rachel seemed quite eager to watch)?

Apparently, they won't let these two people go until the show's over. It seemed to me like that preview of Derek having dinner with a woman was a date. So now we'll have to watch Derek trying to pick up someone else?

About Tom, yes, he had to bring up the "people who want a nice car" thing again. Ugh. It's one thing to live frugally, but it's quite another to chastise others for not having the same lifestyle and same aspirations as him. I don't know why they paired someone like him with Lilly, who specifically said in this episode that she's ambitious and wants to make a lot of money. So what will happen between these two when the magic of the sex wears off?

And yes, like someone mentioned before, Tom made his sad little flower arrangement sound like he was giving her some special surprise. I wonder if Lilly thought that he'd bought her some jewellery or something. And his vows: he just changed a few words here and there. I don't think a lot of thought went into that. And still, he criticized her for not writing some new vows.

I'm on the fence about Lilly working in the car. On one hand, if she had clients in town and she had a lot of work to do, then I don't blame her and it was needy and self-centered of Tom to complain about it. But if she was supposed to relax and wasn't supposed to work while they were driving, then I can understand his frustration. But she did go to the beach with him and did try to do something that he enjoyed, and he should give her credit for that.

[ChristmasJones]

In the most recent clips with Heather, she seems extremely resolute in her decision. She said something about how she is the only one who needs to be OK with her decision because its her life, and she is right. It doesn't matter what any of us think , or Derek, or the experts.  

[Nikkerpotomous]

I think a lot of nastiness coming from Heather is not necessarily directed at Derek, I feel if you read in between the lines it is directed at the staff of the show.  In Unfiltered, she made the comment how  "no one else has to live this decision".  That to me is directed at them, not Derek.  I am sure she got a lot of pressure from them to stay in it, when she put her foot down, it became a problem.  Thank goodness she travels so much for her job, that they can't just pound on her door all day waiting for her to come out.  I really wonder if she came to them after the wedding and they asked her to just give it through the honeymoon, and if when sparks didn't fly she said "I did what I said, I'm done."

Also, when is unfiltered filmed?  After the whole season was filmed, correct?  If so, Nick and Sonia are still together.  When Jamie asked the question about the honey-do list he said how he just bought a "honey-do" calendar for the the both of them, and was waiting for it to come in the mail."

Many of us have asked/been asked "how do you know if someone in the one?"  For me, the answer was someone who you love enough that you are willing to look past their flaws/negative traits.  That being said, maybe that is why I have a skewed opinion on the men this season.  As much as I might dislike some of them, I feel bad for them.  Someone might have a really bad temper, and they might need someone willing to deal with that temper for the long run to help them change it.  So many of our bad habits come from our parents, and we deal the same way we saw things being dealt with growing up.  People can and will change if they love someone enough.

Yes, Derek was snarky and snappy, but that is something that could have been worked on, he could have learned to stop for a moment before reacting.  It looks like Heather is REALLY into yoga and it's teachings, maybe she could have shown him how to relax with that instead of the 'supposed' weed.  Nick is the same. He holds things in until he snaps.  He needs someone who is sweet and understanding enough to deal with him until he can loosen the valve and let things out a little at a time.   Someone who realizes that he says the most hurtful thing to vent, not because he means it.  I'm not saying it is OK, but I am pretty sure there are things we all do that if it were on TV, someone would watch it and say "what a d!&k move!".  IMO, working on and changing a behavior is admitting you are wrong, and being sorry.

Last point before I move on is the subliminal messaging in this show.  Background music plays SUCH a HUGE role in making us have an emotion, and they do it  so much on this show.  Oh, Nick is a jerk *insert angry music*.  Feel bad for Nick *insert violin music*.  TH from all different times are used as a side of the same scene to support what they WANT you to feel.  3 different outfits while talking about the same subject?  I think not.  Mostly, they use Unfiltered and the other 15 min. one to manipulate before the current episode airs, as well as to get emotions running before the next airs.  I know you all are not dumb and know this, but it is interesting to watch things out of order, or take certain things out of the equation and see how your perception changes.

PS- the way these women use the word "like" ALL THE FLIPPIN' TIME drives me BONKERS!!!  Valley Girls went out of style in the '80's, please stop!! 

[Evil Queen]

1 hour ago, Nikkerpotomous said:

"like" ALL THE FLIPPIN' TIME drives me BONKERS!!!  Valley Girls went out of style in the '80's, please stop!! 

Just had to say something but being I was actually born and raised in that valley....I would drive you crazy because I do say the word like to many times myself. Its just how I have always been though. Yes when I say OMG it sounds very valley girlish. LOL I catch myself doing it at times when I am typing out things as I think them too but when I see it I can correct it. While I can't stop it when I talk. Does that make sense? LOL Heck my Chicago born dad would poke fun over it at times when I was growing up. The others that are not even valley girls just seem to use it for whatever reason but is no the only thing either, there is all those "um" in sentences over and over again and a few other things that are not even words at all said that drive me nuts. 

Oh I wanted to add about the music...I get what you are saying. Its moments like those that I end up rolling my eyes and saying things like "give me a break". Yet I do know that it does add to the scenes in trying to sway the viewers to feel a certain way towards whoever, and that is who they are targeting it towards since there are always going to be those of us that see it for what it is and start rolling the eyes and feeling the opposite for one reason or another. LOL

[gonecrackers]

10 hours ago, Nikkerpotomous said:

I think a lot of nastiness coming from Heather is not necessarily directed at Derek, I feel if you read in between the lines it is directed at the staff of the show.  In Unfiltered, she made the comment how  "no one else has to live this decision".  That to me is directed at them, not Derek.  I am sure she got a lot of pressure from them to stay in it, when she put her foot down, it became a problem.  

I didn't see nastiness as much as defensiveness, & definitely it could be what you're saying. They don't like her as she's getting such an obviously bad edit.

10 hours ago, Nikkerpotomous said:

Many of us have asked/been asked "how do you know if someone in the one?"  For me, the answer was someone who you love enough that you are willing to look past their flaws/negative traits.  That being said, maybe that is why I have a skewed opinion on the men this season.  As much as I might dislike some of them, I feel bad for them.  Someone might have a really bad temper, and they might need someone willing to deal with that temper for the long run to help them change it.  So many of our bad habits come from our parents, and we deal the same way we saw things being dealt with growing up.  People can and will change if they love someone enough.

I understand your soft heart on this issue, but no one can change anyone else. Any real, lasting changes has to come from that person for him/herself, not for the spouse or anyone else.  That sometimes happens but more often does not, even when they are really in love. The spouse will just end up being very miserable for life, or as long as they stay - & it gets even worse if kids are brought into that situation.

But they don't get to choose themselves in this situation so they either have to live with it or move on.

Edited October 7, 2016 by gonecrackers

[ctbabe]

1 hour ago, gonecrackers said:

understand your soft heart on this issue, but no one can change anyone else. Any real, lasting changes has to come from that person for him/herself, not for the spouse or anyone else.  That sometimes happens but more often does not, even when they are really in love. The spouse will just end up being very miserable for life, or as long as they stay - & it gets even worse if kids are brought into that situation.

But they don't get to choose themselves in this situation so they either have to live with it or move on.

The person has to want the change as you said but what if the person never knew they have an issue. That's what I think Nikker is saying. Sometimes upbringing make some behavior seem like the norm. It takes someone on the outside to point out the less obvious. What is normal to you might not be normal to the other person. I don't think everyone knows all their flaws.. 

[Evil Queen]

1 hour ago, gonecrackers said:

I didn't see nastiness as much as defensiveness, & definitely it could be what you're saying. They don't like her as she's getting such an obviously bad edit.

I understand your soft heart on this issue, but no one can change anyone else. Any real, lasting changes has to come from that person for him/herself, not for the spouse or anyone else.  That sometimes happens but more often does not, even when they are really in love. The spouse will just end up being very miserable for life, or as long as they stay - & it gets even worse if kids are brought into that situation.

But they don't get to choose themselves in this situation so they either have to live with it or move on.

Agree there was no nastiness from Heather I thought...unlike Derek who every time its something he doesn't like or want to her he lashes out with nothing but nastiness. He really does act like a child have a tantrum over not getting there way. 

As far as the changing, I wanted to add to what you said that not only can you not change another person but more so is that the case when it comes to certain things. Anger was an example used. If someone has a temper that is really bad you can't make that person change it. IF its so bad it gets to a certain level no one should stick around for that...whether its physical or verbal. Same with things like drugs and alcohol as well. These are things a person has to change about themselves and want to do so. There are many other things as well that can fall under that category as well. While there are little things that one might change for someone but even then you can't make a person change who they are to fit your own needs/wants. Otherwise it comes to the point of trying to mold someone to be how you think they should be for you. Which at that point one should ask themselves what they like/love about the person, why they want them to change and what they can change about themselves as well. 

5 minutes ago, ctbabe said:

The person has to want the change as you said but what if the person never knew they have an issue. That's what I think Nikker is saying. Sometimes upbringing make some behavior seem like the norm. It takes someone on the outside to point out the less obvious. What is normal to you might not be normal to the other person. I don't think everyone knows all their flaws.. 

While that could be a case, it doesn't mean they will listen or have to. Its still up to the person to change. Its not something anyone else can make happen. There are many times one grows up with certain behavior and learns its not normal so they would rather not act that way or be around that if they see it in others. I grew up with a narcissistic mother. I took the crap from her because I didn't know anything about that stuff growing up. I knew it wasn't right how she was but before knowing what it was exactly that was her issue, I just knew that my friends parents didn't act in that way. There is no changing who she is though. My sister is the same kind of person as her on top of being an drug addict and alcoholic. While since I am not that way I am like a black sheep of the family. I do not want my kids around that kind of behavior and I knew from the time before I had kids not to act the way they do.  Sometimes you have to step away from those with "flaws" or whatever issues because no matter what they will never change and they do not get that they have problems. The older a person gets the less chance of them ever seeing it and changing for the better. In my case, I decided to limit contact with my mother to where its just email and no contact for my sister. That is for my well being and so my kids never have to be around that. When its damaging type of behaviors it gets to the point that its up to you to decide to stick around it or get away from it.  While if its little things like how they clean or squeeze toothpaste even that is stuff that is small and can be looked past. You have to just look at where it falls on the line of being hurtful to your well being or just something that annoys you. If its annoying then maybe learn to look past it if its worth it because no matter what the person you are with will do something at some point to be that way. LOL 

[gonecrackers]

1 hour ago, ctbabe said:

The person has to want the change as you said but what if the person never knew they have an issue. That's what I think Nikker is saying. Sometimes upbringing make some behavior seem like the norm. It takes someone on the outside to point out the less obvious. What is normal to you might not be normal to the other person. I don't think everyone knows all their flaws.. 

True, but my point was one shouldn't marry someone with the intention of changing them, that's all.

[gonecrackers]

Well stated, Evil Queen, & we are in a similar boat, so I get where you're coming from. Spouses, friends, adult children, etc- no matter how much we love the person/people, we are not therapists. And even therapists can't change people; they have to want it for themselves.

Edited October 7, 2016 by gonecrackers

[ctbabe]

1 hour ago, gonecrackers said:

True, but my point was one shouldn't marry someone with the intention of changing them, that's all.

I don't think when Doug married Jaime, he signed up for marrying someone with extreme issues. BUT he took time to get to know her and found out that she has some redeemable qualities. You are right that no one should marry someone with the intention of changing them BUT at least give them the opportunity to change themselves before running. 

[Nikkerpotomous]

Gone Crackers & ctbabe - I think you said what I was trying to say in less words.  In real life we get that choice "Is this person worth dealing with this certain piece of BS for the rest of my life?"  Or you flat out tell them I cannot deal with XYZ.  This is coming from experience. Like Gone Crackers said - don't change for the person, but it can allow someone to see the consequences of their actions.  I had to break off an engagement due to behavior- but it was that realization that if he didn't change that I REALLY would walk that made him want to change.   I'm not saying we have a perfect relationship, but it has allowed for better communication and actions over the years.

This applies to certain people because their spouses KNOW they have an out after 6 weeks, and it is a good time to see if (a) that person is worth it (b) they will put in the effort to change.  

I'm not sure if my thought processes is coming out as clear here as it is in my head.

[Paddywagon]

Everyone has issues, but I think temper and lashing out issues are different than let's say, fear of abandonment or someone being a messy person, or trust issues, or being a lousy cook.

People don't address their temper problems by being with someone who can deal with it. They change because they get rejected and it gives them a wake up call.  Only then do they face the consequences of their bad behavior and (hopefully) accept the need to change. The desire to change has to come from within.

Someone who commits to a person that regularly lashes out also needs to get help.    Likewise, thinking one person can change another's angry behavior by putting up with it and showering them with love is called enabling.

Edited October 7, 2016 by Paddywagon

[gonecrackers]

46 minutes ago, ctbabe said:

I don't think when Doug married Jaime, he signed up for marrying someone with extreme issues. BUT he took time to get to know her and found out that she has some redeemable qualities. You are right that no one should marry someone with the intention of changing them BUT at least give them the opportunity to change themselves before running. 

He'll have to live with that decision & that's his issue LOL.

41 minutes ago, Paddywagon said:

Everyone has issues, but I think temper and lashing out issues are different than let's say, fear of abandonment or someone being a messy person, or trust issues, or being a lousy cook.

People don't address their temper problems by being with someone who can deal with it. They change because they get rejected and it gives them a wake up call.  Only then do they face the consequences of their bad behavior and (hopefully) accept the need to change. The desire to change has to come from within.

Someone who commits to a person that regularly lashes out also needs to get help.    Likewise, thinking one person can change another's angry behavior by putting up with it and showering them with love is called enabling.

^^^ Yes, yes, & absolutely YES!

[psychoticstate]

On 10/6/2016 at 6:08 AM, gonecrackers said:

Exactly. It's not like she set him up for failure. He went ahead & did what he was going to do &, maybe, what he normally does. She didn't know him at all so she needed to see what he would do to figure out IF this was going to be an issue or not. When she brought it forward as an issue, he became defensive & nasty, again showing his true colors.

Honestly if someone were to show me the worst of them right away (or at least something I couldn't deal with), then I'd see it as a blessing.  This doesn't get dragged out with more chances to hurt each other.

The show won't let them move on & is making Heather out to be the evil one because it's their failure, not the couple, not even Derek's. It's the failure of the show & they can't stand it that someone said this is not right & I'm out.

Maybe so did Heather.  Remember one of her best friends saying something about how Heather sabotaged relationships (or something to that effect because I don't remember the exact words.)   If we are going to take Derek's account at face value, he asked her first which would indicate to me that he was checking with her in order to respect her wishes and not just go ahead and do what he normally does. Otherwise, why ask?  

21 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

I don't agree with this.   Heather wasn't setting him up for failure, she was just seeing what he would do by himself.  It would have been too easy for him to hide the truth from her or minimize it if she let him know how she felt right away.  She just wanted to know where he was coming from.  In that sense, this whole show is a "test" after which the participants decide if they want to stay married.  If the participants let each other know every minute when they didn't like something that would be absurd and counterproductive to forming any kind of relationship.  Sometimes people are just reserving judgment until such time that they have the information they need.  I don't think she was handing him a noose or anything, she was just seeing how much he would engage in the behavior before saying anything, which is probably a wise policy, especially if she didn't want to rush to judgment too soon and ruin something that could have been great.

That said, Heather had a legitimate reason for wanting to know the truth.  Unlike IMO, smarmy Tom who deliberately and self-servingly tests Lilly to see how "materialistic" she is all because he has to soothe his fragile ego from feeling bested by her in terms of a career or whatever it is that threatens him about her and to reassert his superiority over her.  Very different motives between Heather and Tom, IMO.

I guess we see it in a different light.  To me it's no different than if I told my boyfriend that I was okay with him straying when I clearly don't approve of cheating and then being upset if he strays.  To me, that's not only game playing but says that you aren't a very trusting or honest person.   And maybe Heather isn't trusting because of her past relationships but I still think it's a shitty thing to do to someone else.  

If Heather really had an issue with smoking, she should have said so immediately.  Then Derek could have said fine, I won't smoke or I'm sorry but that's part of my lifestyle.  

Part of the problem with the Heather and Derek situation is that all this happened off camera so we have no idea exactly what happened, what tone was used, what was said, in what context, etc.   Maybe Heather was 100% to blame; maybe Derek was 100% to blame; maybe both were equally at fault; or maybe MAFS was to blame.  It's hard to say. 

[ChristmasJones]

I tend to think that it was Derek's response to the problem rather than just the problem itself. Heather may have been "eh" about the problem (smoking, etc), but his response when they had disagreement about it is what pushed her over the edge.

[stuckin60s]

adding to gingerandcloves, his vows were just the original ones with a few words added.  This, to me, is not writing new ones.  Lilly could have just done the same thing while sitting at the table.  I agree the editors are trying to make Tom look like a slacker, don't think they have to work too hard

[Jellybeans]

Anyone reading the spoilers?

[Snarklepuss]

3 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

I guess we see it in a different light.  To me it's no different than if I told my boyfriend that I was okay with him straying when I clearly don't approve of cheating and then being upset if he strays.  To me, that's not only game playing but says that you aren't a very trusting or honest person.   And maybe Heather isn't trusting because of her past relationships but I still think it's a shitty thing to do to someone else.  

If Heather really had an issue with smoking, she should have said so immediately.  Then Derek could have said fine, I won't smoke or I'm sorry but that's part of my lifestyle.  

Part of the problem with the Heather and Derek situation is that all this happened off camera so we have no idea exactly what happened, what tone was used, what was said, in what context, etc.   Maybe Heather was 100% to blame; maybe Derek was 100% to blame; maybe both were equally at fault; or maybe MAFS was to blame.  It's hard to say. 

I think it's just so easy from an armchair to say that Heather should have said something right away, but when I put myself in her place I don't think that's realistic or fair to expect of her.  She went into this like anyone else, with high hopes and a "wait and see" attitude because she like everyone at first really wants things to work out.  I can understand having mixed feelings about it and not knowing how to handle the situation without ruining things completely.  I don't blame her for hanging back.  Her gut must have been telling her that no matter when she told him it wouldn't have been well received.  It's a sticky subject to bring up with someone you've only just met that you may in fact have hoped to fall in love with.  As it is I doubt she ever could have anticipated the negative response she actually got from him.  So much for her being honest with him.

Edited October 7, 2016 by Snarklepuss
broken arm typos

[ctbabe]

39 minutes ago, Jellybeans said:

Anyone reading the spoilers?

What spoiler?  I havnt seen any recent ones. 

[Jellybeans]

13 hours ago, ctbabe said:

What spoiler?  I havnt seen any recent ones. 

Well I saw Nick's IG recent video during the hurricane evacuation and someone noticed the doorknob had a "just married, do not disturb" sign on the door.  The video was obviously taken by a person since it was moving a bit.  

[ctbabe]

3 hours ago, Jellybeans said:

Well I saw Nick's IG recent video during the hurricane evacuation and someone noticed the doorknob had a "just married, do not disturb" sign on the door.  The video was obviously taken by a person since it was moving a bit.  

I definitely think they are together. The producers are editing things to fit their narratives. 

[Jellybeans]

57 minutes ago, ctbabe said:

I definitely think they are together. The producers are editing things to fit their narratives. 

...and Tom who is "cheap" apparently bought Lilly an engagement ring. 

[ctbabe]

14 minutes ago, Jellybeans said:

...and Tom who is "cheap" apparently bought Lilly an engagement ring. 

Yeap.. the engagement ring is real.. I think he is a minimalist but he knows he needs to try harder to keep Lilly. 

[Jellybeans]

Just now, ctbabe said:

Yeap.. the engagement ring is real.. I think he is a minimalist but he knows he needs to try harder to keep Lilly. 

And there is nothing wrong with being a minimalist.  I am one.

[gonecrackers]

6 hours ago, ctbabe said:

I definitely think they are together. The producers are editing things to fit their narratives. 

I won't be too surprised if they (Sonia & Nick) stay together for decision day, but I will be surprised if they make the 6 months. Sonia might not want to look like she's giving up, but it wouldn't last.

Edited October 8, 2016 by gonecrackers
Clarifying that I meant Sonia & Nick, not Tom & Lily

[ctbabe]

51 minutes ago, gonecrackers said:

I won't be too surprised if they stay together for decision day, but I will be surprised if they make the 6 months.

They (Lilly and Tom) are still together.. you can figure it out from the snap chat and pictures. 

[gonecrackers]

1 hour ago, ctbabe said:

They (Lilly and Tom) are still together.. you can figure it out from the snap chat and pictures. 

Ooops; I actually meant Sonia & Nick.  I'm thinking Sonia might cave on decision day, to not look like she's 'giving up', but that it won't last.

[ctbabe]

2 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

Ooops; I actually meant Sonia & Nick.  I'm thinking Sonia might cave on decision day, to not look like she's 'giving up', but that it won't last.

I agree.. i think Sonia and Nick made it past the 6weeks mark. I definitely think they might still be together or very close friends. 

[Evil Queen]

8 hours ago, ctbabe said:

I definitely think they are together. The producers are editing things to fit their narratives. 

SM can do this as well. Its been proven to in the past. How many last season assumed Neil would stay with Sam because of all her crazy crap on SM? Thankfully he was smart enough in the end to want that divorce. If Sonia is smart she will do the same. Nick has to many issues he needs to take care of and he needs to grow up a lot before ever being in a real relationship....let alone being married. 

[Snarklepuss]

I wouldn't take 'just married" signs as any indication of Sonia and Nick making it past decision day.  As @Evil Queen said, there were plenty of social media hints last year to make us think Sam and Neil made it but look what happened.  In fact I'm often more skeptical when it seems one way that it's really the opposite because I'm sure the show tells them to keep quiet and at most send out disinformation to confuse people.  The exception to that being Tom and Lilly because I think they're probably still together like it seems they are.

If Nick and Sonia did go on past 6 weeks I'd still be skeptical and wonder if it wasn't done for appearances sake on Nick's part the same way I felt that when Tres stayed with Vanessa and Ryan with Jaclyn.  In both cases I felt that the men didn't want to seem like creeps for ducking out so soon after having sex with their spouses, so they stayed with them to make it look like they really gave it the ol' college try.  I didn't buy that with either of them nonetheless.  That said, I am hopeful that Sonia won't buy it with Nick if he tries to pull that on decision day.  I would never trust him again after his hurtful alcoholic truth telling outburst.  IMO there is just no coming back from what he said.  I just hope she has more sense than to say she wants to continue even if he wants to.

Edited October 9, 2016 by Snarklepuss
broken arm typos

[ctbabe]

6 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

That said, I am hopeful that Sonia won't buy it with Nick if he tries to pull that on decision day.  I would never trust him again after his hurtful alcoholic truth telling outburst.  IMO there is just no coming back from what he said.  I just hope she has more sense than to say she wants to continue even if he wants to

If you read Nick's knot interview abt decision day, whatever decision was made was agreed upon. I think they agreed to stay together at the 6weeks mark. Maybe he would be more OPEN without the cameras. 

http://www.theknotnews.com/married-at-first-sight-nick-outburst-sonia-granados-13845

'He is quick to admit that decision day was difficult. “Decision day is stressful, and we both openly acknowledge that,” he says. “But I think we trust and respect one another to not pull a fast one last minute. I’m sure there will be a conversation about what we are thinking of deciding and why at some point.” '

[Evil Queen]

10 hours ago, ctbabe said:

If you read Nick's knot interview abt decision day, whatever decision was made was agreed upon. I think they agreed to stay together at the 6weeks mark. Maybe he would be more OPEN without the cameras. 

http://www.theknotnews.com/married-at-first-sight-nick-outburst-sonia-granados-13845

'He is quick to admit that decision day was difficult. “Decision day is stressful, and we both openly acknowledge that,” he says. “But I think we trust and respect one another to not pull a fast one last minute. I’m sure there will be a conversation about what we are thinking of deciding and why at some point.” '

I skimmed that because as with all things written on the show its to make it look a certain way. Just as the SM its all to try to make you believe things will work one way over the other. The article from what I can tell skimming it as just like all the rest so very one sided and never really calls people out for their BS but hey no matter what he is fake and not sorry for his behavior. He has been fake from day one. He wasn't into her at that time and hasn't been and never will be. Its been to obvious. Sorry but I do not buy his fake introvert crap either. He is far from it and has major alcohol problems from how it looks. On top of it he has no clue how to have a conversation without drinking, so I can't imagine them having one about decision day unless he is drunk. Then depending on how it goes he could have another outburst or just slur his way through it saying stuff that have nothing to do with the topic. I don't care what anyone says, if a man says those words to you/about you (drunk or not) there is not going back. Not unless you enjoy being that sort of treatment...which to me says a person has a lack of self respect if they do. If Sonia goes back she will lose respect from many watching and even more so if they claim to want to stay married on decision day. As Snarklepuss said, if they by chance do it will be more for appearance than anything else. After all he still wants to try to sell his clothing line and get more to rent his place so coming off horrible in the end won't be good for that. 

[stuckin60s]

just saw that next weeks episode is another honeymoon for the two couples.  hope they don't expect Heather and Derek to show up!!

[Evil Queen]

47 minutes ago, stuckin60s said:

just saw that next weeks episode is another honeymoon for the two couples.  hope they don't expect Heather and Derek to show up!!

I saw that and all I could do was roll my eyes and ask why. This is just a frickin joke at this point. Pepper has no clue at all since this is her bs idea from what it said. 

[Enero]

4 minutes ago, Evil Queen said:

I saw that and all I could do was roll my eyes and ask why. This is just a frickin joke at this point. Pepper has no clue at all since this is her bs idea from what it said. 

Exactly. And how "realistic" is that? A newly married couple being able to take two honeymoons within six weeks? Yeah this show is the real deal. RME. And I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale. :/

[gonecrackers]

I saw the second honeymoon thing & thought they must desperately be running out of ideas.

Lilly is working a lot - she has time for another vacay?

[cardigirl]

8 hours ago, stuckin60s said:

just saw that next weeks episode is another honeymoon for the two couples.  hope they don't expect Heather and Derek to show up!!

I thought it was about visiting the in-laws this week?