S07.E15: The Dying of the Light

[CooperTV]

Quote

Clarke (Eliza Taylor) and Octavia (Marie Avgeropoulos) mount a desperate rescue mission as the Disciples close in on what they want.

Original airdate 9/23/2020.

Edited September 17, 2020 by CooperTV

[KittenPokerCheater]

So I'm guessing there's going to be a lot of "rage, rage" against it?

[ParadoxLost]

I wonder if they hadn't decided to kill off Bellamy if they would have quite literally dropped Bellamy into the part Olivia's torturer love interest played this episode and that would have been how Bellamy snapped out of it.  I think what happened to Madi would have been more powerful if it was Octavia, Clarke, and Bellamy in that room at the end.  But the writers suck that way.  I'm not totally against things I don't want to happen happening.  But I want them to milk it for everything its worth.  Wallow in the character moment and bring on the feelings.

Anyway... I tend to think that with Emori in danger of dying and Madi locked in in the finale that Clarke that there is going to be some kind of ascension thing at the end and they will all be reunited again in some kind of Lost ending where everyone waits until all the people they care about show up.  That or they just whack everybody at once and they all end up on the other side.  I doubt this means we'll see Bellamy again.  There is probably some kind of have to be alive to ascend clause.  Otherwise Octavia wouldn't have given up her shot*.

With all the discussion of the war really being a test this episode, it occurs to me that this show is badly enough written that I don't really find it credible that anyone on this show could pass the test.  I wonder if they will try that anyway,  Well maybe Murphy.

*sorry when they said Becca had gone to the "other side" I got a Hamilton ear worm going...  the other side...Eliza.

[KittenPokerCheater]

The only people I'm interested in anymore are Raven, Emori, and Murphy, Miller (and his boyfriend), and Indra.  Everyone else can go float themselves.

I'm still pissed off about how they killed Bellamy.

More thoughts later, perhaps.

[quarks]

So. Uh. That was an episode of television that certainly made narrative choices.

1. Yay, Emori is...mostly alive!

2. Clarke, I don't want to sound critical, but you'll be of considerably more help to Madi if you keep your hands in decent shape instead of ripping apart the skin on your hands on rocks.

3. Again, I don't want to sound critical, but I kinda feel the Bardo people could have given Madi new, more comfy clothing that did not have rips in the elbows before doing mind torture on her.

4. FINALLY, someone tells Cadogan the correct translation!  Though, gotta ask, Madi, why not bring this up PRIOR to the torture!

5. War is a lot of things other than a test of might, Cadogan!

6. Full credit to Jordan's actor trying to get through that "The red toxin told me the truth!" speech, but...uh.

7. However, on that subject, how would the red toxin know about this alien test/war thing, and why did it take Jordan several episodes to realize that the red toxin was saying, Everything You Have Figured Out Through Korean Is Correct? If I understood the red toxin thing - and let me be the first to admit that I may not have - I thought it played on existing fears? Jordan didn't know about aliens or the code or any of that the first time around (last season) so how would the toxin have been able to tell him about this? And he wasn't around for the second dose of toxin this season - he was part of the group that had already been sent to Earth. So either this is a complete retcon of the red toxin thing or someone thought we didn't have enough setup for "Hey, Clarke has to push a lever in yet another test in the series finale" and chose this terribly clumsy speech for that setup.

8. I don't mind Madi as a concept, and I think the young actress has been doing a good to great job and should, if she recovers from what is increasingly sounding like/looking like a just terrible introduction to television acting, have a decent career ahead of her. 

But I don't like the effect Madi has had on Clarke as a character. It's not that I don't get or believe that Clarke would have developed an unhealthy attachment to Madi given that she had pretty much no other contact with anyone else for five years, and even before that, her relationships with most people were not exactly what could be called stable or healthy. And of course Clarke is/was dealing with massive amounts of trauma, so an attachment disorder is honestly pretty credible.

But the end result has been to turn Clarke from the complex, strategic character of seasons 1-4 into this "WE HAVE TO SAVE MADI MADI IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN EVERYTHING MADI MADI MADI" person. And, bluntly, this character is considerably less fun to watch.

This was the center of my issues with the fifth season, which is why I so welcomed the respite from this in the sixth season, where Madi was still a focus, but not the only focus, and again earlier in this season, where Clarke willingly left Madi behind in order to go save people. But now, in the last two episodes, we are back to MADI MADI MADI MADI. And in this case, it's not just not nearly as fun to watch as the (limited) bits of Clarke we saw earlier this season, but it's also taking time away from answering all of the many ongoing questions from this season.

7. Rather belated realization that you put your mother through hell, Clarke!

8. Uh, Clarke, GAIA is HOT, quite possibly queer, and RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF YOU what is this "I'll have nothing left" crap if you lose Madi? Not to mention that last I checked, Niylah was still running around the place.

9. EMORI YOU ALWAYS MATTERED TO ALL OF US NOT JUST MURPHY

(sniffle)

10. This is why people should carry around hand sanitizer in this show! Sure, they don't have to worry about COVID, but they do have to worry about possibly doing emergency surgery/cauterization with very dirty hands!

11. "We moved the bridge to a strategically advantageous location" is one of the worst excuses yet for "this set is too small to fit all of the characters we needed here and we can't afford to build another set so we decided to sorta do some location shooting, just hoping that no one would realize just how many shows have shot in that exact spot in that park." 

12. Wait. You're taking the word of ONE PERSON instead of making even the slightest attempt to get a second opinion before mercy killing Madi?

13. Well done, Madi! Your little "Hey, I'll sacrifice myself," not only meant that your brain got fried, but you also doomed humanity unless Clarke can pull next week's lever in time!

So. As said, this was an episode of television. Which chose to spend time showing Gaia teaching Clarke to meditate (I have to assume this will be a plot point next episode, because otherwise, wait, what?) and spend time showing Clarke and Octavia deciding to mercy-kill Madi only to run off and leave the poor helpless girl there without any food or water or any way to get off that chair into a slightly more comfortable position, like, as parents, you two suck, but also, why did we waste time on that "We're gonna shoot Madi" scene if they weren't going to it, instead of spending time answering ANY NUMBER OF ONGOING QUESTIONS, LIKE:

1. Is anyone - anyone - going to try to start a long term colony on Prison Planet? I know it's been used as a prison, but it also seems to have fertile soil and relatively decent weather and the show spent a fairly significant amount of time there. While I'm at it, why didn't any of the Bardo people sent there just leave that cabin area and go exploring and set up a nice little place somewhere else? It was much nicer than Bardo, Bardo people!

2. Are Murphy, Emori and Raven going to start up a threesome? (Assuming Emori lives, of course.)

3. Are the remaining people back in Sanctum (the surviving Wonkru, surviving Sanctum people, surviving criminal people) setting up a way to capture and kill ANYONE who tries to return there? (We may actually get an answer to this next episode, so I'm being a touch unfair here).

4. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE DOG?????

5. Is anyone at Sanctum trying to figure out how to switch to solar power so they can turn off the reactor and not have a repeat of the problems earlier this season?

6. Why did Octavia feel called to this Anomaly thing last season?

7. Are Echo and Niylah still alive? Are they going to hook up?

8. Is that the only remaining piano in the universe?

9. What happened to everyone on the Eligius 3 ship? (I know, I know, they waited in orbit until the CW made a decision about the prequel, but...)

10. Who built these stones? (I know, I know, prequel.)

11. IS ANYONE ON THIS SHOW EVER GOING TO GO, WAIT, THIS PLANET HAD AN INTELLIGENT LIFE FORM WITH A WRITING PATTERN SUSPICIOUSLY SIMILAR TO KOREAN?????? YOU MEAN WE AREN'T ALONE IN THE UNIVERSE, OR AT LEAST WEREN'T? THIS IS AMAZING! DO YOU THINK THERE ARE OTHER ALIENS OUT THERE?????

12. Are all of the characters going to end up on separate planets?

13. Was ALL of the Snow Planet frozen, or were parts maybe slightly habitable?

14. How many of the remaining main characters will survive?

15. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE DOG??????????????????

....and so on, but you get my point.

It's possible that this show will shock me. But as it is, I feel deeply skeptical that it will be able to wrap up all of the existing plot lines (how many Bardo people will EvilHeda kill, will Emori survive the emergency surgery, are Echo and Niylah still alive and if so what the hell are they doing, what's going on in Sanctum right now, will Octavia and Clarke stop Cadogan in time, are Indra, Gaia, Hope, Jordan and Miller ever planning on trying to dig out those collapsed hallways to save everyone else in the bunker, just to name the major ones) AND provide a satisfying ending for any of the characters except maybe the dog, let alone provide a satisfying ending to the show, in just the one remaining episode. And at least part of that is because this episode made little to no attempt - other than the Raven/Emori conversation and, more arguably, the Octavia/Levitt conversation - to get us to that satisfying ending.

But I've been very wrong before. Let's hope I'm wrong again.

[thuganomics85]

It was admittedly hard for me to enjoy this episode with Emori knocking on death's door, and me in fear that she was going to die at any second.  At least she's still clinging on for now, but I'm about 50-50 on wherever she is going to make it through all of this or not.  Part of me is still thinking/hoping that all of this is happening now so that she'll pull through come finale time, but another part of me is thinking they'll kill her so that Murphy (and Raven) will be in rage mode, and play their part in the final battle.  Speaking of which, not sure what to make of Emori saying she loves Raven as well.  Did she mean that in a romantic way?  Because she sincerely seems to love Murphy as well.  Does she love them both and we're going for some kind of poly relationship here with those three?  Kind of confused about that.

Glad that Levitt ended up turning on the Bardo gang at the end, but I agree that it would have been more impactful had Bellamy been in his place the entire time, instead of getting killed off.  But, hey, maybe one of Octavia's love interest will get a happy ending!

Since they didn't kill her now, I'm guessing they might find some way to get Madi out of her vegetable state.  If not, I don't see Clarke surviving the finale, because after all of her loss and angst, I don't see her having the will to live for very long.

Glad Indra is in a "Lets just kill Bill as quickly as possible!" frame of mind.  I just wish she had that same mindset for freaking Sheidheda...

No update on Echo or Niylah, so I'm thinking they're going to pop in unexpectedly to help save the day when things look dire.

So, Bill now has the answer he needs and is preparing for war.  Meanwhile, Sheidheda was released by Clarke and Octavia to be a "distraction", and his whereabouts are currently unknown.  My best guess is that he'll find some way back to Sanctum, and be a final obstacle for Murphy and Raven (and hopefully Emori!), while Clarke, Octavia and the rest of the gang (assuming they find a way to get them to Bardo) will be dealing with Bill and his ilk.  But I could totally be wrong here, so we'll see how it all plays out next week!

 

 

[quarks]

....not to get overly conspiracy minded here, but it occurs to me that Eliza Taylor and Bob Morley may well have gotten an initial or revised script for this episode while filming the episode where Bellamy died - a death that was apparently scripted during the filming for that episode, and which ended up changing the scripts for the previous episode and this episode. 

I'm now kinda wondering if their comments on the initial script for this episode had anything to do with whatever happened BTS during the filming of episode 13?

[KittenPokerCheater]

26 minutes ago, quarks said:

'm now kinda wondering if their comments on the initial script for this episode had anything to do with whatever happened BTS during the filming of episode 13?

What were their comments?  Where can I read them?

[quarks]

2 minutes ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

What were their comments?  Where can I read them?

I have no idea what their comments were. As far as I know Eliza Taylor and Bob Morley haven't said anything publicly? 

We know, though, that Stephen Amell and Grant Gustin do get network and draft scripts (or in Amell's case, did), as does Kennedy McMann over on Nancy Drew. They've all talked about it.  So although The 100 is with a different production company, it's at least possible that Eliza Taylor also gets copies the network scripts, more or less when the networks do, in time for her to comment on them through her management if she has an issue. And she and Morley would presumably have gotten the shooting scripts for this episode while shooting episode 13 - again, in just enough time to raise any comment with the studio/network. 

Outside of safety issues, most of the time, the actors' comments go nowhere - again, Amell, Gustin and McMann are all on record about this, as are multiple supporting cast members. I think it's safe to assume that the same is true for The 100. 

That said, we now know that the network/shooting scripts for this episode probably included a scene that asked Eliza Taylor to portray a character having to consider mercy-killing her child just a couple of months after Taylor's miscarriage.

We also know that Morley abruptly left the show just three episodes away from the series finale, and that the show had not planned for this - that has been very clear in the later behind the scenes promo bits, including the one for this episode. And that the departure probably came fairly close to getting the shooting scripts for this episode. 

As I said earlier, the CW shows write on set to incorporate various changes (usually budget related) all the time and last minute changes are not at all unusual. Deciding to kill off a main cast member while shooting that episode? That's unusual. That's not to say it can't or won't happen - I mean, obviously, in this case, it did - just that it's unusual. 

But this is also just me speculating. 

 

[CooperTV]

1 hour ago, quarks said:

We also know that Morley abruptly left the show just three episodes away from the series finale, and that the show had not planned for this - that has been very clear in the later behind the scenes promo bits, including the one for this episode. And that the departure probably came fairly close to getting the shooting scripts for this episode. 

 

He didn't quit the show three episodes from the finale. I know JRoth would want to put blame for his spitefulness and crap work environment for his two leads on Bob but that's not what happened.

[tennisgurl]

Considering Madi was apparently rendered brain dead and Clarke almost had to mercy kill her, in one of the last few episodes of the whole series, its amazing how not invested I am. The only parts I was really interested in was the fight to save Emori, because I still love her and she and Murphy are some of the few characters I still care about, the rest was just shockingly boring. More running through boring halls, more boring bad guys doing boring bad guy monologues, more of "MADI! MADI! MADI!" over and over, I just want this show to end so I can enjoy my memories of when this show didn't suck. We are really going to end not with a bang, but with a whimper arent we? 

So everyone in Bardo gets the fight training, even the med tech guys! So I think it finally officially got through to Octavia's boyfriend that his side might just be the bad guys, which is good because he is pretty much the only person we actually know from Bardo. Really, thats a big issue with all of the new factions introduced this season, we dont really know them, so how can we care about them and what happens to them? I know I shouldn't complain about spending more time on random idiots instead of our actual main characters, but if we are spending so much time on all of these new people and their drama, couldn't they at least make us care about them or establish anything really about them?

I dont hate Madi, and I think the actress is doing a good job, but she suffers from a problem that happens when shows add a new kid/teen character, they are given this really undeserved sense of importance by both the narrative and the characters. Suddenly its all about protecting the kid character and everyone running around bending over backwards for the kid character and the kid character is now the key to everything, and the new chosen one, and now cousin Oliver is the new main character and the center of the world for the actual main character. I dont hate the idea of giving Clarke a kid exactly, but I dont really like how its played out. The best things about Clarke are her strengths as a leader, that she is willing to make terrible hard choices for the greater good, that she tries to put the needs of the many over the needs of the few, even if the few is her or the people she loves, its what makes her so compelling. She cares deeply for her people and will do anything to protect them, while trying to hold onto a moral core. Now, while she does still care about people, its all MADI MADI MADI and Madi always comes first and she will sacrifice anyone for Madi and she talks about Madi all of the time and while Clarke used to have complicated motivations, now her motivations are basically "Save Madi and yell her name over and over" and cry about Madi and maybe get some other stuff done too. And its not just Clarke, everyone is all about Madi and Madi is what everyone will give everything up for, its just this intense level of importance given to this one character, when no one else has ever really been given that treatment. I mean, way back in season one, pretty much all of our characters were teens in a constant state of danger, some even younger than Madi, and no one was endlessly fretting about them. Hell, the whole reason they got dumped on Earth in the first place was to be used as the radioactive equivalent of those birds they sent into mines to see if there was anything toxic in them. I guess maybe thats the point, that our gang want to do better than the generation before them, but its really annoying how its all playing out. 

So Clarke finally gets an idea of what Abby went through whenever Clarke would throw herself into danger because now Madi is doing the same thing and the cats in the cradle and the silver spoon...

So with Madi running off to give herself up to Bill the Boring, this just makes Bellamys death even more pointless. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad. 

I am hoping that, now that Murphy and Emori have almost died about twelve times this season, they are in the free and clear for the finale, but you never can tell with this show. Their plot was decently intense, and I usually spent most scenes away from them hoping to get back to them. 

Edited September 24, 2020 by tennisgurl

[Taryn74]

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Now, while she does still care about people, its all MADI MADI MADI and Madi always comes first and she will sacrifice anyone for Madi and she talks about Madi all of the time and while Clarke used to have complicated motivations, now her motivations are basically "Save Madi and yell her name over and over" and cry about Madi and maybe get some other stuff done too. And its not just Clarke, everyone is all about Madi and Madi is what everyone will give everything up for, its just this intense level of importance given to this one character, when no one else has ever really been given that treatment.

Couldn't agree more. I never disliked Madi, I thought she made a fine addition to the show, but I liked her the most when she was in Commander mode and would basically tell Clarke to step aside because she had a job to do and Clarke's whiny ass was getting in her way.

[quarks]

15 hours ago, CooperTV said:

He didn't quit the show three episodes from the finale. I know JRoth would want to put blame for his spitefulness and crap work environment for his two leads on Bob but that's not what happened.

(nods)

Thus why I used the words "abruptly left." Not quit, left.

I'm not saying he quit. I am saying that there is at least a possibility that he read the script for this episode and raised objections through his management, and that was a factor in his sudden, unexpected termination. I find it difficult to impossible to believe that JR just woke up one morning and said, you know what, let's fire the guy even if it means suddenly rewriting the next three episodes, even though the next one is already in rehearsals/getting blocked, the one after that just finished up with network/legal and the finale has just been sent off to network/legal. Dealing with that costs actual money, and the end of the season is not when you want to find yourself dealing with increased costs. As said, these sorts of abrupt terminations/quietly pushing someone off a show happen all the time, but generally not during filming unless drugs are involved, and sometimes not even then. (See, Glee.) 

And yeah, I know about the rumors that Morley and JR had some sort of falling out before filming started for season 7, and that Morley also requested time off for personal/health reasons. But my guess is - and it's just a guess - that whatever happened during the filming of episode 13 was something new. Something new on top of other things, sure, but still, something new. 

 

[ParadoxLost]

26 minutes ago, quarks said:

I'm not saying he quit. I am saying that there is at least a possibility that he read the script for this episode and raised objections through his management, and that was a factor in his sudden, unexpected termination. I find it difficult to impossible to believe that JR just woke up one morning and said, you know what, let's fire the guy even if it means suddenly rewriting the next three episodes, even though the next one is already in rehearsals/getting blocked, the one after that just finished up with network/legal and the finale has just been sent off to network/legal. Dealing with that costs actual money, and the end of the season is not when you want to find yourself dealing with increased costs. As said, these sorts of abrupt terminations/quietly pushing someone off a show happen all the time, but generally not during filming unless drugs are involved, and sometimes not even then. (See, Glee.) 

I don't think its unreasonable to make the leap that the original draft of this was along the lines of Bellamy deciding to bring Clarke when he started to believe it was a test not a war and Shepherd was putting Madi at real risk and at the end Bellamy was the one who had to mercy kill Madi and went through with it.  I could see that creating enough of a conflict that JRoth decided to kill him off.

Because really,, Bellamy could have been dropped into those scenes with very little changing.  And last minute halting the mercy killing and leaving Madi aware and totally helpless and alone in enemy territory made no actual sense.  At all.  Clarke wouldn't have done that.   Especially not for some nebulous reason of Shepherd can't represent all of humanity because there might be consequences..  At a minimum she would have left someone behind until she got back.

It feels a lot like Bellamy was supposed to be in these episodes and taking him out of them was not a whim because there is so much stuff the are hand waving as they go along.....shit we can't have both Madi and Bellamy dead....shit Clarke wouldn't leave Madi alone but we need Octvia in the finale and they don't know how to operate the stone...shit we dropped a bunch of rocks on Emori to give a reason to go back to Sanctum and Raven has to do that....damn I guess we just act like this makes sense.

[SourK]

The thought of someone having to kill their own kid because they got there too late to rescue them is horrible enough that I cried, but I felt manipulated into it. Especially when they just suddenly decided not to kill her and instead leave her alone where she was. I also don't understand why they changed their minds -- I thought they were going to kill her because she's catatonic and there's no way to reverse it, but I guess it had something to do with the code in her head?

Also confusing: how did Octavia's boyfrined know that opening the bridge would bring people across? He didn't know two of them randomly ate Sheidy's pills. And those were the only two who got grabbed, so... what was his plan if no one ate the pills?

ALSO, there are too many convoluted ways to use the bridge, now. I don't get it.

23 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Speaking of which, not sure what to make of Emori saying she loves Raven as well.  Did she mean that in a romantic way?  Because she sincerely seems to love Murphy as well.  Does she love them both and we're going for some kind of poly relationship here with those three?  Kind of confused about that.

 

I think she meant it in the way people love their close friends. Ring-cru is one of the things that legitimately warms my heart on this show -- thought I notice only Emori cared that Echo was MIA.

I do have a weird feeling that the writers are kind of keeping Raven in the wings of this relationship, and that, if either Murphy or Emori dies by the end of this, she'll end up with whoever's left.

[quarks]

3 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

I don't think its unreasonable to make the leap that the original draft of this was along the lines of Bellamy deciding to bring Clarke when he started to believe it was a test not a war and Shepherd was putting Madi at real risk and at the end Bellamy was the one who had to mercy kill Madi and went through with it.  I could see that creating enough of a conflict that JRoth decided to kill him off.

 

Yep.

Bob Morley has been relatively open about his issues with clinical depression, and how that's made him more aware of disability issues/rights - and essentially, in that scene, three able bodied people decided that the right thing to do was to kill off a completely aware and alert teenager just because her body was paralyzed - without making the slightest attempt to see what other options might be available. (I mean, to start with, there's a computer hooked to her brain which might allow Madi to communicate.)

So that's a problem right there. Add in that his wife just had a miscarriage and I honestly can see Morley raising an objection to the scene or saying that he would be unable to do it.

3 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

It feels a lot like Bellamy was supposed to be in these episodes and taking him out of them was not a whim because there is so much stuff the are hand waving as they go along.....shit we can't have both Madi and Bellamy dead....shit Clarke wouldn't leave Madi alone but we need Octvia in the finale and they don't know how to operate the stone...shit we dropped a bunch of rocks on Emori to give a reason to go back to Sanctum and Raven has to do that....damn I guess we just act like this makes sense.

The big clues, I think, are the speeches from Jordan and Octavia. Jordan's speech made very little sense in context and flat out contradicted things said in season 6. My guess is that Jordan's speech was originally a dialogue between all of the characters - including Jordan -- and Bellamy about what Cadogan and Bardo were really doing, with the stuff about faith coming from Bellamy, not Jordan. (It would fit Bellamy's earlier scenes.) Jordan would have focused on the linguistics.

I also think it's safe to assume that Bellamy, not Octavia, was the original one to join Clarke on the LET'S SAVE MADI train, though Octavia may well have decided to come as well. No offense intended to Octavia at all, but her "I'm not letting you do this alone, Clarke," is just...not really an Octavia thing to say, even leaving aside that going with Clarke meant leaving Hope again. That's a Bellamy thing to say. Octavia agreeing to let EvilHeda provide the distraction instead of providing the distraction herself, also, not exactly completely in character. It's quite possible that in the original version Octavia zipped off to provide that distraction, using her knowledge of the place, as Clarke and Bellamy rushed off to save Madi.

[quarks]

4 minutes ago, SourK said:

Also confusing: how did Octavia's boyfrined know that opening the bridge would bring people across? He didn't know two of them randomly ate Sheidy's pills. And those were the only two who got grabbed, so... what was his plan if no one ate the pills?

I think Levitt overheard someone else tell Cadogan that the pills had been activated, and Cadogan saying, whatever. So Levitt knew that at least two people had taken pills.

But that whole subplot is, I think, another indication that this episode went through a lot of last minute changes - and it also explains one of the problems with last week's episode.

In last week's episode, EvilHeda stopped in the middle of killing/threatening Madi to explain to her and to us about the pills, then conveniently enough left the pills behind. As a number of people noted at the time, it made no sense for EvilHeda to bring up the pills, given that his entire goal was to kill Madi, not discuss interplanetary transportation. Especially since in the end EvilHeda and Madi travelled by Magic Knife, not Magic Pills.

Again, just a guess, but my guess is, in the original version where Bellamy was alive, he had the pills - after all, he had earned the trust of Bardo people by betraying Clarke and Friends, so it's not out of the question that they would have given him the pills. This would also have allowed Bellamy to start or continue to regain Clarke's trust - by offering her a way to get to Madi.

[ParadoxLost]

2 minutes ago, SourK said:

The thought of someone having to kill their own kid because they got there too late to rescue them is horrible enough that I cried, but I felt manipulated into it. Especially when they just suddenly decided not to kill her and instead leave her alone where she was. I also don't understand why they changed their minds -- I thought they were going to kill her because she's catatonic and there's no way to reverse it, but I guess it had something to do with the code in her head?

I took that as because they found out that Shepherd got the code they needed to rush off to stop Shepherd from dooming humanity by failing the test and they didn't have the appropriate time to mercy kill Madi in that moment so they would come back and mercy kill her later.

And that was not realistic because

1) at this point Clarke gives zero fucks about Shepherd and the alien's test or war or whatever

2) they have not sold that Clarke believes in this nonsense.  Same way they didn't sell that Bellamy believed in this nonsense. 

3) Clarke certainly does not care enough to leave Madi in that chair alone in enemy territory, certainly not when she had been told that Madi knew she was there and was locked in

[Lady Calypso]

This was probably the best episode of the season and also the most frustrating one with the material in it. There was a lot of amazingly acted moments but it was all followed by shoddy writing and questionable plot threads. This one felt closest to me to the show I fell in love with (especially compared to this ENTIRE season) but it also didn't make as much sense as I wanted it to.

Clarke screaming about Madi these last few episodes is frustrating. I think they handled Clarke's relationship with Madi decently in seasons 5 and 6 (even with season 5 being a big Clarke and Madi season and I didn't like season 5 at all). I think this season has made their relationship utterly annoying. And this is no fault on Madi as a character or the actress! I quite like Madi and I totally see why she was chosen to be the Special One (even though I loathe the trope). But it's how it's affected Clarke as a character that pisses me off. Clarke has suddenly lost something to her, and I think it has to do with how independent she's been and how she hasn't had her SOLE focus just on her daughter. But now it's all about Madi and with how this season has already sidelined Clarke to the point where she's basically only showed up for 30 minutes of the entire season in the first 12 episodes, it just adds to the frustration. It might have been better... had Clarke actually had any sort of plot of her own before these last few episodes. 

And watching Madi in that last scene and how Clarke AND Octavia were ready to kill her on the spot instead of pausing to find a solution was just bizarre. Obviously Madi is brain dead because Cadogan pushed hard. Maybe it's easier to see the way out because the show intentionally left her still alive. I personally even would have found it more interesting HAD she been actually dead. But having her trapped in her own body is TERRIFYING. This definitely is one of the worst things this show has done. But it still makes me sad that Clarke was ready to kill her own daughter seconds after finding out her fate. After episodes of Clarke screaming about Madi and the need to save her to the point of killing her best friend to do that (unsuccessfully), NOW she's willing to let her daughter die? And then they also decide to leave her alive once they hear that Cadogan has the key? It's just a convenient way to stall for time for them to save Madi and nothing else. It just shows that Madi will find her way back and be fine in the final episode.

It's similar to how they just confirmed Emori's fate for me and how she WILL live. I'm not mad about that since I want Emori to live so the most stable couple in the show can have their happy ending (and I also hate the typical dying tropes that they touched on in this episode with all the goodbyes) but it's still VERY BLATANTLY OBVIOUS with how they left Emori's fate up in the air at the end and how they still all got back to Sanctum. It would be pointless if they killed her off at the beginning of the final episode.

I will say that the Raven and Emori scene was very touching. It was definitely the best scene in the episode for me. That whole subplot worked well because the acting was top notch from everyone involved. Luisa did an AMAZING job with her scenes and Richard Harmon definitely was the star of the episode for me. We got a taste of grieving Murphy without actually needing to have Emori die and it worked for me. 

At this point, I would have rather 40 minutes of Murphy, Emori, Raven, and Jackson.

[ottoDbusdriver]

One question -- when Clarke and Octavia disappeared on Earth after being recalled by the nano-tags neither one of them had guns in their hands.  But when they appeared on Bardo they both not only had guns, but had them drawn.  How exactly did that happen ?

The writers screwed up -- it's Raven's job to get stabbed, shot, and tortured, so why did Emori end up getting impaled by a piece of rebar ? #sarcasm

And who exactly buried the stone under the concrete floor ?  No one was left behind when Cadogan and his followers left Earth.  Or did the stone bury itself.  Because the stone was moved from its last known position AND buried.

Didn't someone state that Bill's people had been studying the stones for over a 1000 years -- how exactly ?
Looks like Bardo and Earth are in the same time frame, so a couple of hundred years at the maximum.

Way too many close up shots of Clarke's face this episode.  I know it was meant to be from Madi's perspective, but once was enough. And it was so close up you practically see every pore in her skin, plus you could clearly see that she was wearing makeup.

At this point, the series finale can't come fast enough -- I just want it to be over already.  Don't care about "the test" or the war or whatever nonsense it turns out to be, don't care about Madi, don't care about the aliens, don't care about Shitheda, and certainly don't care about Bill the cult leader.

This is all they could come up with for the final season -- because it is really disappointing.

[foxfreakinmulder]

5 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

At this point, the series finale can't come fast enough -- I just want it to be over already.  Don't care about "the test" or the war or whatever nonsense it turns out to be, don't care about Madi, don't care about the aliens, don't care about Shitheda, and certainly don't care about Bill the cult leader.

This is all they could come up with for the final season -- because it is really disappointing.

I couldn't agree more!

The only 2 people I care about are Murphy and Emori and they better not fucking kill her!

I noticed that about the guns too.

I bet they end this with a time jump and we'll hear a voice over of how this new and improved, living in harmony world came about from the sacrifice of their ancestors or some shit. Then the last scene will be EvilHeda  because god knows he a cartoon character and can't die, lol. 

Edited September 26, 2020 by foxfreakinmulder

[SourK]

On 9/25/2020 at 9:33 AM, Lady Calypso said:

And then they also decide to leave her alive once they hear that Cadogan has the key? It's just a convenient way to stall for time for them to save Madi and nothing else. It just shows that Madi will find her way back and be fine in the final episode.

One of the things I like about this show is that it usually swerves somehow in the season finale, and the characters end up in a horrible situation where their plans get destroyed and everyone dies. So, I'm hoping I get surprised. But right now I feel like the most obvious outcome is that Clarke takes the test on behalf of humanity, and the aliens like her so much that they heal Madi. Or, Clarke being Clarke, she threatens to kill all the aliens if they don't heal Madi.

15 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

And who exactly buried the stone under the concrete floor ?  No one was left behind when Cadogan and his followers left Earth.  Or did the stone bury itself.  Because the stone was moved from its last known position AND buried.

There was an Ice Nation symbol on the floor above it, so I guess Ice Nation had control of the bunker at some point in the past? Maybe that's one of the secrets we could learn in the spinoff series no one wants to watch.

[Isazouzi]

On 9/27/2020 at 8:13 AM, SourK said:

There was an Ice Nation symbol on the floor above it, so I guess Ice Nation had control of the bunker at some point in the past? Maybe that's one of the secrets we could learn in the spinoff series no one wants to watch.

Like how Ice Nation secretly knew how to build concrete floors? [sarcasm]

[ketose]

Almost there. Just have to make it through one more hour. Actually, 42 minutes because I won;t be watching it live.

Why is it so bad to live in Sanctum? I thought they had the bug shield most of the time. And apparently Earth is now okay after 250 years instead of 120? Maybe Monty should have woke a couple people up every 50 years or so to check instead of going to some mystery planet.

I assume they're going to do some mind drive thing and put Madi into some other body. Either that, or Clarke becomes an ascended being and just fixes Madi.

[AudienceofOne]

On 9/24/2020 at 12:13 PM, quarks said:

the end result has been to turn Clarke from the complex, strategic character of seasons 1-4 into this "WE HAVE TO SAVE MADI MADI IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN EVERYTHING MADI MADI MADI" person. And, bluntly, this character is considerably less fun to watch.

I mean they're doing this thing this season where they're contrasting the philosophies of "the personal matters" vs "the group matters" and Clarke and Friends represent the Personal and Cardigan and Idiots represent the Group. And on paper that's a perfectly fine thing except that Clarke in particular was a far more nuanced character than that and frequently struggled with that same quandary. In fact you could say that Clarke=the group and Bellamy=the personal was a framing of the original seasons. Except now we have this ridiculous thing where Clarke just runs around behaving like a crazy Madi bot and Bellamy is dead. I think I had a point I was making here. Oh yeah! This show sucks. That's where all my points end up.

On 9/25/2020 at 12:03 PM, SourK said:

The thought of someone having to kill their own kid because they got there too late to rescue them is horrible enough that I cried, but I felt manipulated into

THIS. 

I agree with everyone's comments but actually this was a well-written episode if it was in a vacuum. It is not in a vacuum. And now I'm just happy my pain is nearly at an end. One more episode!!