S01.E05: Cupid's Errant Arrow

[tessaray]

Air date: September 3, 2020

Mariner is suspicious of Boimler's new girlfriend. Tendi and Rutherford grow jealous of a bigger starship's gear.

[marinw]

This was the best epsiode yet IMO. I love some good diplomatic squabling.

And as a Canadian I squeed that a ship is named the Vancouver, even though I live on the opposite coast.

Edited September 4, 2020 by marinw

[dwmarch]

3 hours ago, marinw said:

This was the best epsiode yet IMO. I love some good diplomatic squabling.

And as a Canadian I squeed that a ship is named the Vancouver, even though I live on the opposite coast.

It was nice to see Vancouver getting some Star Trek love! The shuttles were even named after Vancouver neighborhoods:

[marinw]

How old is Mariner? In the words of Red Green (Another Canadian Treasure) "If you can't stay young, you can at least stay immature."

[marinw]

20 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

They probably should have scored the Barb/Mariner fight with the music from Amok Time.

OMG. Now I want that so much. Do they have the rights to that music?

Edited September 4, 2020 by marinw

[KimberStormer]

Really enjoyed this one!  Mariner's depth of experience in Star Trekky ways was neither unique (insofar as Barb was a match for her in that regard) nor made her Always Right as in the first couple episodes.  As usual Boimler's the weak link, the "insecure boyfriend jealous for no reason putting on a sucky persona" trope was old when, like, Saved By the Bell did it.  But I guess one must resign oneself to Boimler being an 80s sitcom throwback.  At least he made for a fun Maguffin for Mariner and Barb to spar over.

Tendi and Rutherford's story was fine but I thought sort of overdone, which is weird because obviously everything is over the top on this show.  The gushing over how cool the Vancouver is was fine.  The vision of themselves holding up the holy T-88 to the awe of their coworkers was fine.  That's the right level of over-the-top.  But the "actually I like the falling-apart Cerritos" was sort of...overly obvious? and the whole scene with the Docent guy screaming and shooting and going on about how life in the Vancouver is TOO EPIC just seemed like too much to me.  Like it's...already the premise of the show, right?  Did anyone on Taxi go around talking about how the world of taxi drivers is actually very interesting and full of humor and drama?  It's implicit in the show already, no need to scream it during the show.

It was sort of interesting to see the Captain being totally competent this week.  She was totally Picard-ish this episode, figuring out all the legitimate problems the aliens had and then telling the guy with the illegitimate problem to go screw himself.  I don't know if that's an inconsistent character or not.  (But I still think it would be better without any bridge crew scenes at all.)

I really do think they need to mix it up, though; we don't have any sense that Tendi and Rutherford even know Boimler and Mariner, at this point.  Let's have a Mariner/Rutherford, Tendi/Boimler episode soon.  Or the 2 girls and 2 boys hanging out.

This sounds negative because I am picking nits more than praising but I really did think it was a great episode altogether, the three(! in half an hour!) storylines were all good and fun and appropriately Star Trekky (really the Captain/moon plot was essentially a full episode of TNG in like 5 minutes of screentime) and I really thought it was good.  It even has a classic TOS style title.  I'm into it.

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 9/4/2020 at 9:42 AM, marinw said:

How old is Mariner? In the words of Red Green (Another Canadian Treasure) "If you can't stay young, you can at least stay immature."

I'm guessing she is in the 24-27 range, and Boimler is probably like 22, 23. 

There was a fair bit I liked about this one:

1. The nostalgia factor of running through all the various permeutations of changelings, infiltrators and such.

2. Mariner was literally on DS9! 

3. The T88 worship that Rutherford and Tendi thought they would get if they brought one back to the Cerritos

4. That Mariner wasn't (just?) motivated by jealousy over Boimler having a girlfriend.

5. The resolution of the fight being that Mariner and Barb are going to hang (or possibly more, if you want to read some hoyay into it?)

6. Freeman's perfect disgust at realizing that the 1 percenter was giving her static over the rights of him and his wife.

7. The analogy of the Vancouver is Canada with cool things like universal healthcare T88s, and the Cerritos is the U.S., with things barely holding together.

8. I liked the intro of Jet. The show needs more characters who aren't ensigns but aren't senior staff. I hope we see him again.

9. It's cheesy, but Freeman's line about Starfleet doing the impossible would have fit in in the live-action series. 

Things I didn't so much like or would have liked to have seen:

1. It would have been better if Boimler still dated Barb after the parasite was removed or didn't immediately break up with him

2. Too little of T'ana and Shaxs. In fact, T'ana only appeared in Tendi's vision of her triumphant securing of a T88. Shaxs should have gotten to express some glee at getting to blow up a frigging moon.

3. The Vancouver's captain disappeared suddenly. I don't even think she got named.

4. They probably should have scored the Barb/Mariner fight with the music from Amok Time.

5. They should mix up the lower deck characters more.

6. Also there really isn't a suitable reason why Tendi and Rutherford are doing work on the Vancouver together. First, the Vancouver has its own staff to do that. But also, the task that they were assigned seems clearly to be an engineering one. What is Tendi, assigned to Medical, doing it for? 

[ottoDbusdriver]

When is Lower Decks supposed to take place ?  According to the Stardate in this episode, it's about 3 years after the final episode of Voyager.

Because if Mariner was hanging out at DS9 as an ensign onboard the USS Quito shortly after the events of the ST:TNG 'Descent' episode, that would have been 12 years before the Stardate of this episode.  So, was Mariner serving in Starfleet when she was a teenager ?  Not buying it.

What was with the 'Trip Tucker sprinkles' reference by Boimler ?  Still pissed off that the writers of ST: Enterprise blithely killed Trip off.

What the hell was with that stupid outfit Boimler was wearing ?

And why is Mariner's uniform always partially undone ?  Even when she's on duty.

[starri]

1 hour ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

So, was Mariner serving in Starfleet when she was a teenager ?  Not buying it.

Not unprecedented, though.

[marinw]

Good point @starri. I could see Mariner being a Weslely Crusher before she became so cynical.

 

[starri]

She's incredibly capable and the daughter of two high-ranking officers.  I can absolutely see her in some kind of Starfleet ROTC.

[KimberStormer]

"Mariner = Wesley who doesn't ascend to meet the mystical koala but stays in Starfleet being cynical and unambitious after seeing all the badmirals and corrupt Starfleet Command figures" is pretty much my assumption at this point.  Although it's a little weird if she was at a bar at age 16 or whatever, I guess Wesley went to Ten-Forward plenty, so.

[Chicago Redshirt]

3 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

When is Lower Decks supposed to take place ?  According to the Stardate in this episode, it's about 3 years after the final episode of Voyager.

Because if Mariner was hanging out at DS9 as an ensign onboard the USS Quito shortly after the events of the ST:TNG 'Descent' episode, that would have been 12 years before the Stardate of this episode.  So, was Mariner serving in Starfleet when she was a teenager ?  Not buying it.

What was with the 'Trip Tucker sprinkles' reference by Boimler ?  Still pissed off that the writers of ST: Enterprise blithely killed Trip off.

What the hell was with that stupid outfit Boimler was wearing ?

And why is Mariner's uniform always partially undone ?  Even when she's on duty.

Descent had a star date in the 47000s, and Lower Deck occurs in the 57000s, so about 10 years.

It's possible that word of the events of Descent spread far and wide immediately after it happened and the flashback was shortly after Descent took place.

It's also possible that it was only declassified some time later, or that the people on the Quito were bringing it up years after the fact, in much the same way that people on the Cerritos reference things that happen a century or more ago. 

It's canon from the TNG that Wesley became an acting ensign and then a full ensign as a teenager, because he was uniquely talented. It's canon from DS9 that Nog became a lieutenant fairly quickly against the backdrop of the Dominion War, despite having no connections and in fact being from a non-Federation planet and possessing of no particularly unique talent. I don't see why it is too unreasonable that Mariner -- as a highly competent person and the daughter of an admiral and a captain -- didn't get a position in Starfleet in her teens as well. 

Kirk is thought of as an awesome alpha male stud, but some people might see him as too egotistical and arrogant. So the Trip Tucker sprinkles would bring the right dash of humility and empathy to balance that out. 

Boimler's outfit was supposed to be a joke pastiche of every cool look in history. I've not tried to figure out what the breakdown of what pieces came from what episodes, or if they did actually borrow from "cool" outfits. 

Mariner's rolled-up sleeves symbolize her being a slacker. 

[Chyromaniac]

Look - I know I posted something similar to this last week, but bear with me.  I think we all just need to remember that this is essentially a Star Trek comedy series.  A lot of the plot points and references may not make "canonical" sense or may feel exaggerated because they are, well, jokes.  That's not to say that they are all going to be funny - I have no idea what "She's as real as a hopped up Q on Captain Picard Day" is supposed to mean.  I prefer when the humor is built around satirizing the characters and situations, and not "Star Trek Mad-Libs."  Speaking of which, I do think the reference to Descent would have been funnier if it wasn't so on the nose ("Oh yeah?  I heard he had an 'evil android brother,' and one time they both joined those emo Borg!"), but I guess they think we literally want to hear these characters say the names "Lore and Data."  But still... it's just a joke.

As for moments I did enjoy - the "Kirk Sundae with Trip Sprinkles" actually did benefit from the specific names, because of course Boimler would be intimidated by those guys in particular.  Mariner's various conspiracy theories were fun - I'm trying to decide if the implication was that she was being affected by the parasite as well, and that's why she was so adversarial towards Barb.  Either way, I enjoyed her calling him "Bradward" - I hope that carries over.  Overall I liked Tendi and Rutherford's story too - although I do agree that...

On 9/5/2020 at 2:17 AM, KimberStormer said:

the "actually I like the falling-apart Cerritos" was sort of...overly obvious? and the whole scene with the Docent guy screaming and shooting and going on about how life in the Vancouver is TOO EPIC just seemed like too much to me.  Like it's...already the premise of the show, right?

Yeah - just like above, I don't think the writing needs to spell everything out for us.  Stuff like that feels intentionally pitched towards a YA audience - and while I guess it's possible that families are watching this show together, I have to assume that the audience is mostly 25-54 year olds who maybe don't need the "anything can be good if you have the right attitude!" routine.  Plus, Tendi and Rutherford are funny - but in mostly the same way.  I'd like to see more of them each interacting with other characters that aren't parodies of enthusiastic Starfleet officers, or maybe learning other aspects of their personalities.  

[ottoDbusdriver]

Yet another confusing part is why the Cerritos is falling apart -- based on the ship number, it's actually newer than the Vancouver, so .......

It feels more like the writers are are just randomly throwing out references to previous Treks they found on Google for the heck of it -- comes off as lazy.

[Chicago Redshirt]

That the Vancouver is newer than the Cerritos doesn't necessarily mean anything, really.

The Cerritos could have done more in its shorter time in service than the Vancouver (although that would run counter to the notion that it is constantly going on so many epic adventures that the engineer guy wants to transfer). Or it could be that the California class is fundamentally a more fragile type of ship than the Parliamentary class (or whatever the Vancouver is).

 Also at the end of the day, the Vancouver has a better staff and gets better equipment (ex: the T88s) than the Cerritos. From the opening credits, it seems clear that the Cerritos crew make a lot of dumb errors.

[dwmarch]

I wonder why Tendi and Rutherford are always paired up together doing the same work. That doesn't really make sense considering she's Medical and he's Engineering. Yet we see them in the same Jeffries tube doing the same things and using the same equipment. That's like having a plumber and a surgeon working out of the same toolbox. "Hand me those pliers... wash 'em first."

The T88s don't make sense either. There were tricorders and then there were medical tricorders and they were not established as being interchangeable. But this show is whimsical so I will take at face value that such devices are equally prized in Engineering and Medical because they are just that versatile.

[tessaray]

I'm starting to really like Mariner as a character. Yes, she's rude, cynical and kind of all over the place but she's smart, good at solving problems on the fly, can kick ass and is a really, really good friend. Isn't that the kind of crew member you want on your away team when it all goes sideways?  (Well, except for the fact that she probably helped it go sideways. Hah. No one's perfect.)  

It appears that at least some of the problem solving she learned from her mother. I liked the Captain getting to the last set of issues and finding out that there were only 2 people left blocking the mission, and immediately blowing the moon up.  

I still dislike the style of the animation.  It figures that I finally get a couple of interesting female Star Trek characters where I can't wait to see their backstories play out (the mother/daughter dynamics are a nice change of pace from all the guys with daddy issues I've had to watch over the years) but the visuals are distracting.  That Cartoon Network feel doesn't do justice to the characters, imo. The ships and exteriors are amazing though, as others have said.

[Anduril]

More references! I love all these references to other shows! 

[Linderhill]

On 9/7/2020 at 7:07 PM, tessaray said:

I still dislike the style of the animation.  It figures that I finally get a couple of interesting female Star Trek characters where I can't wait to see their backstories play out (the mother/daughter dynamics are a nice change of pace from all the guys with daddy issues I've had to watch over the years) but the visuals are distracting.  That Cartoon Network feel doesn't do justice to the characters, imo. The ships and exteriors are amazing though, as others have said.

This is one of my problems with the series.  I'm not a Rick and Morty fan, neither its animation or its humor does anything for me.  The call backs to the other Star Trek series are amusing but not to extent to endear this series to me.  I also kind of feel whiplash in that all of a sudden Mariner cares what happens to Boimler so much that she goes batshit?  This was one of the better episodes but characterizations are all over the place.

[Chicago Redshirt]

14 hours ago, Linderhill said:

This is one of my problems with the series.  I'm not a Rick and Morty fan, neither its animation or its humor does anything for me.  The call backs to the other Star Trek series are amusing but not to extent to endear this series to me.  I also kind of feel whiplash in that all of a sudden Mariner cares what happens to Boimler so much that she goes batshit?  This was one of the better episodes but characterizations are all over the place.

I think a) Mariner has always cared about Boimler in big and little ways (wanting to spar with him in the first episode, offering to mentor him, stopping the alien from hitting on him, setting up the situation where he could feel like the big man for spotting an untrustworthy Ferengi thatt she "didn't," getting him access to the officers' replicators) and b) Mariner was particularly triggered in this instance because of her friend having been devoured by a shape-shifter who was pretending to be her too-perfect boyfriend and the resulting PTSD. 

[Tachi Rocinante]

Recalibrating a Dyson Sphere would be a huge pain in the ass.

[QuantumMechanic]

Was that a picture of Garak on Mariner’s conspiracy board?

[johntfs]

On 6/16/2022 at 12:11 AM, QuantumMechanic said:

Was that a picture of Garak on Mariner’s conspiracy board?

Probably.  What would be the point of a Star Trek conspiracy board that failed to include Garak?