International Soccer/Football & UEFA Champions League

[ulkis]

The thing with Portugal is, it seems to me people keep favoring whoever is playing them and yet they're the ones that come through, so. Although most of the hosts on ESPN seem to be predicting Portugal now.

[proserpina65]

14 hours ago, ulkis said:

The thing with Portugal is, it seems to me people keep favoring whoever is playing them and yet they're the ones that come through, so. Although most of the hosts on ESPN seem to be predicting Portugal now.

Portugal has gotten lucky with its knockout games (if only Croatia's manager had pulled Corluka out when he got hurt!), but I'm hoping that luck will come to an end against Wales, a team which actually plays as a team.

Edited July 6, 2016 by proserpina65

[Athena]

I like Portugal, but they won their last two matches in Extra Time or Penalty Kicks. It's not exactly been a cake walk for them. They are ranked higher than Wales and I think Portugal do play better than Belgium. Either way, it should be a good game today.

[proserpina65]

1 minute ago, Athena said:

I like Portugal, but they won their last two matches in Extra Time or Penalty Kicks. It's not exactly been a cake walk for them. They are ranked higher than Wales and I think Portugal do play better than Belgium. Either way, it should be a good game today.

Given what I've seen of them so far this tournament, I think Portugal actually has been playing as even less of a cohesive team than Belgium did, and has been depending almost entirely on Ronaldo to pull them through.  I'm hoping that Wales missing Aaron Ramsey won't hurt them too badly.  I'm afraid, given the plodding football which Portugal has played so far, it will be a dull match, but if Wales can play their game, it should be good.

[ganesh]

I just don't think you want to go to the PK shootout well one too many times if you have to. Poland is an ok team, but if you're Portugal, you dig in and get that second goal in 120 minutes. But, survive and advance I guess. 

[ganesh]

Did Wales know they were supposed to play the game today?

[wanderingstar]

If Portugal ends up winning this tournament playing the way Greece did 12 years ago, I will laugh my head off.

[ulkis]

It won't be quite like Greece . . . they already have more than one goal in one of their knock-out games, heh.

Edited July 6, 2016 by ulkis

[wanderingstar]

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It won't be quite like Greece . . . they already have more than one goal in one of their knock-out games, heh.

Ha! True!

As for the other semi, I can't pick a winner. Head says Germany, heart says France. 

Edited July 7, 2016 by Gillian Rosh

[JustaPerson]

If Germany gets through this game with France to face Portugal, they'll probably feel a bit slighted that they had to go through two potential final match ups in Italy AND France while Portugal has been able to barely scrape by.

Edited July 7, 2016 by JustaPerson

[ganesh]

Scrape by? They've literally won *one* game and they're in the final. I'm not a fan of taking 3rd place teams to advance because sometimes this happens. If you're establishing that you have be in the top 2 in the group to advance, then you're figuring you have to win at least one game rather than kind of backing in. It's a lot different if you're going into game 3 knowing you have to win. Of course that screws up when there's 24 teams. 

Does Europe have that many elite squads that they need 24 teams to represent a true champion? I don't think so. 

[JustaPerson]

Well they also beat Croatia (in extra time, I know) so they've won two games to get here. *thumbs up* Yea we all know whoever Portugal face in the final, France/Germany will be more deserving of the title before they even step foot on the field. 

UEFA added the new rule very recently I think (this is the first Euros with these new rules) so maybe they'll restore the format after this? It's been a bust. 

[wanderingstar]

The 24-team format gave us the wonderful Wales and Iceland runs, so I don't know if it was all bad.

As much as they annoy me, I'd be OK  with Portugal winning on Sunday - and I say that as someone who likes both France and Germany. The fact is worse teams have won this competition  (hi, Greece!) And that was under the old format.

[Athena]

10 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

The 24-team format gave us the wonderful Wales and Iceland runs, so I don't know if it was all bad.

As much as they annoy me, I'd be OK  with Portugal winning on Sunday - and I say that as someone who likes both France and Germany. The fact is worse teams have won this competition  (hi, Greece!) And that was under the old format.

Yeah, I'm Ok with Portugal, but I much prefer France. They played well against Germany today and I like both teams.

[ganesh]

Both Iceland and Wales would have advanced from the group stages because they both finished in the top 2 of their groups. Unless you mean in the qualifying stages, but I believe they would have been in a 16 team field as well. Both finished 2nd in their qualifying group. 

Portugal was the only 3rd place team to make the quarterfinals, so I'm not seeing that the expansion gave us anything more exciting. The same teams would have been in the quarterfinals, and the unexpected teams would have made it too under the 16 team format.

I just don't think advancing with not having to secure a win in the group stages is deserving. 

[wanderingstar]

Congrats to France. I hope the final isn't dull.

[JustaPerson]

I was hoping Germany would make it through, but Mats Hummels' suspension and a slightly misfiring attack wasn't quite enough. I'll be rooting for France in the final!

[proserpina65]

Well, fuck.  All I have to look forward to now is France taking Portugal apart piece by piece.  And hopefully the referee ignoring Ronaldo's many attempts at trying to get a penalty.  I'd love to see someone wipe that smirk off his face, preferably with a 2x4.  (Yeah, it ain't right to hate someone you don't actually know enough to wish physical violence on them, but it IS Ronaldo after all.)

Okay, yeah, there are two Arsenal players in the French starting 11, and a former Gunner whom I still greatly admire, so GO FRANCE!, I guess.

(Nevermind - just reread the post and correctly the second time.)

Edited July 8, 2016 by proserpina65

[blackwing]

It seems to me that the teams in the right half of the bracket are of a much higher caliber overall than the teams in the left.  In Germany, France, Italy, Spain, I could easily see any of these teams being the champion.  They have many World Cup and Euro championships between them.  Left side... not so much.

Not sure if that's a fault of the way the groups were arranged or not, but I'm not that familiar with how the process happened.

In any event... Vive le France!  I truly despise HRH Ronaldo.  He is a jackass and a douchebag and an overall horrible human being.  I'd be hard pressed to name any athlete on the planet that is as self-absorbed as he is.  If not the top, he's definitely in the top 5.

[proserpina65]

Quote

It seems to me that the teams in the right half of the bracket are of a much higher caliber overall than the teams in the left.  In Germany, France, Italy, Spain, I could easily see any of these teams being the champion.  They have many World Cup and Euro championships between them.  Left side... not so much.

Not sure if that's a fault of the way the groups were arranged or not, but I'm not that familiar with how the process happened

Some of that had to do with underdog teams doing better than expected in their groups - Wales/England, Iceland/Portugal, the two Irelands - and then there were Spain and Belgium playing poorly and Italy playing more cohesively than usual.  Add in having some third place teams go to the knock out round and you've got unforeseen results.  But the right half of the bracket did end up packed with tough teams, that's for sure.

[ulkis]

This tweet is freaking hilarious

[ganesh]

I don't get why France isn't more patient with Ronaldo out. Nani is the only threat they have now. 

[wanderingstar]

Congrats to Portugal! The more some of the game commentators go on about Portugal not deserving to win, the more inclined I am to praise Portugal out of spite. I didn't know trophies got awarded for worthiness or prettiest football. Oh wait. They don't.

About the game: how is it that Ronaldo's departure negatively impacted France and not Portugal? It's like after he went off, France lost their momentum. Not that they didn't have chances. Gignac's and Griezmann's might have been the best. Gignac hit the post, and Griezmann headed wide. Very disappointing. But this is a fairly young France team, and they can bounce back.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Gillian Rosh

[ganesh]

As much as I protest about the format, deserve isn't got anything to do with it. You don't want Portugal to win, then beat them. France was just kind of there. 

[shang yiet]

Disappointed in France but I knew Portugal would be tough to break down. Maybe this bitter defeat on home soil will give them some much needed grit and resolve. France have a good chance to win WC 2018 once they strengthen their defense. Plus the other top nations are not at their best either.

[katha]

13 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

About the game: how is it that Ronaldo's departure negatively impacted France and not Portugal? It's like after he went off, France lost their momentum.

Because France didn't adapt to the change tactically and perhaps they also felt they could coast to a win now, though I think Deschamps has been questionable in his decision making all competition and here for the first time he was both found out and punished for it. Also, it was probably extra motivation for Portugal, particularly if they suspected that France did that deliberately and with malice (and judging by some of the reactions of the other Portugal players when Ronaldo had to leave the field, I think they did).

[proserpina65]

Worst tournament winners ever.  Portugal wouldn't have made out of their freaking group (and a relatively easy one at that) had UEFA not expanded the number of teams in the tournament.  Now I understand why people hated it when Chelsea parked the bus against Barca for two entire matches and depended upon luck to score in the Champions League.  That match was bloody awful to watch.  And what the fuck was Assholey McDoucheface doing on the touchline at the end?

Edited to note that, while I didn't laugh when he had to leave the match (because he did seem genuinely injured rather than just trying to get a free kick like he usually does), I felt nothing for him.

Edited July 11, 2016 by proserpina65

[Athena]

I'm not sure what happened to France there. I actually don't think they played badly after Ronaldo got taken off. They were still doing well with possession most of Regular time. However, they seemed to lose all resolve in Extra Time. Seriously, Portugal deserved that goal in ET since they did all the work. The French seemed to given up at that point which is disappointing. I think they were the better team going in, but they didn't have the necessary drive to finish it. 

For me, this tournament was marked best by Wales and Iceland playing so well. I guess there will be some Olympic football to watch for the rest of the summer at least.

[wanderingstar]

Quote

Worst tournament winners ever. 

Worse than Greece in '04? 

Quote

Portugal deserved that goal in ET since they did all the work. The French seemed to given up at that point which is disappointing. I think they were the better team going in, but they didn't have the necessary drive to finish it. 

Agreed on both counts. I am wondering if this was one tournament too soon for this France team. I'm hoping that's it. I just can't believe that a team with Pogba, Griezmann, Coman, etc. won't win something soon. 

Edited July 15, 2016 by Gillian Rosh

[proserpina65]

Quote

Worse than Greece in '04?

I will confess to not having seen any of the 2004 Euros, so I will revise that to "worst tournament winners I've ever seen".  I know Greece was unexpected and was managed by the same person, so possibly they were just as bad.  Did they finish 3rd in their group?

[katha]

2 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

I will confess to not having seen any of the 2004 Euros, so I will revise that to "worst tournament winners I've ever seen".  I know Greece was unexpected and was managed by the same person, so possibly they were just as bad.  Did they finish 3rd in their group?

They were managed by Otto Rehhagel, nothing to do with the current Portugal coach Santos. The format was a different one, you can't compare at all with 2016. And IMO they were dire, an absolute destructive anti-football horror show. I'm usually rolling my eyes at complaints about defensive teams beating "flair teams" with better organization, that's always been a legitimate way of playing. What Greece were doing...their only aim was to murder any kind of flow in the game. And Portugal losing to them in 2004 at home was such heartbreak, very sad. The great Golden Generation around Figo and Rui Costa, a very young (18?) Cristiano Ronaldo coming into prominence and all of them devastated by the loss. Still, Greece were a rather small nation doing their best, hard to blame them for the way they played.

In contrast, I think this Portugal team played all right. They were rather defensive and organized, but they kept the ball well, they structured well in defense and midfield, they had nice moments going forward. And they're such overachievers, a small, not very rich country...constantly making it to semis and finals in Euros. And it's not like anyone else was playing up a storm, France was inconsistent, saddled with a confused coach and only played well against Iceland and Germany, Germany has a striker problem, Italy played well but they don't have outrageous offensive talent at the moment, Spain looked a spent force, England were dire, Wales were shown up to not be quite there yet development wise by Portugal in the semis tbh, Croatia choked against Portugal, Belgium had no tactics. And the whole country seems so ecstatic with the win, probably one of their greatest sporting achievements ever? Many of the older players like Pepe, Nani, Quaresma, Ronaldo etc...they've seen so much disappointment with the NT and they've been toiling away for a decade or longer to make something happen after that traumatic loss in 2004, well done for finally winning it.

Edited July 12, 2016 by katha

[proserpina65]

Quote

They were managed by Otto Rehhagel, nothing to do with the current Portugal coach Santos.

Sorry, I was going by something I thought the announcers said during the final, but I obviously misunderstood.

[Rick Kitchen]

Celtic lost to a club team from Gibraltar.

[proserpina65]

On ‎07‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 4:18 PM, Rick Kitchen said:

Celtic lost to a club team from Gibraltar.

Oh my!

[wanderingstar]

katha, I started quoting parts of your post, but then realized I would have just quoted the whole thing. 

Portugal - and Ronaldo in particular with his snotty comments about Iceland - bugged me at the start of the tournament. But by the time they won, I was pleased for them. For the team to overcome the loss of its best player and win the tournament in which they'd had so much disappointment, well it's just a huge achievement. 

As for Greece, they're one of the few international teams that I just can't stand and for all the reasons you stated. I was ecstatic when they were knocked out of WC 2014 by Costa Rica.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Gillian Rosh

[Frozendiva]

Wales had a good song. Manics - Together Stronger (C'mon Wales).

 

Edited July 26, 2016 by Frozendiva

[wanderingstar]

Uefa Champions League Draw is out

Group A: PSG, Arsenal, Basel, Ludogorets

Group B: Napoli, Benfica, Besiktas, D Kiev

Group C: Barcelona, Man City, B Monchengladbach, Celtic

Group D: Atletico, Bayern, PSV, Rostov

Group E: Tottenham, Leverkusen, Monaco, CSKA

Group F: Dortmund, Real Madrid, Sporting, Legia Warsaw

Group G: Leicester, Porto, Brugge, Copenhagen

Group H: Juventus, Sevilla, Lyon, D Zagreb

Leicester got a winnable group. And Dortmund vs. Real Madrid should be fun.

That's all I've got.

[ganesh]

Napoli might actually advance for a change. Last time they went 4-2 and didn't.

[proserpina65]

Arsenal got a decent group for a change.  Only PSG looks to be potentially tricky.  So of course they'll lose to Basel and Ludogorets and blow out in the first round.

[ganesh]

This Arsenal keeper showed up today. 

[garnet207]

Most of Brazil's Chapecoense football team killed in a plane crash Monday night.

Edited November 30, 2016 by garnet207

[ganesh]

There was a good interview on BBC radio. I guess the city was small and the players were really popular. Like, you could catch them at the supermarket and they'd talk and take pics, etc. 

[proserpina65]

So, Arsenal got Bayern for the next round, despite finally winning their damned group.  Because of course they did.

[JustaPerson]

What rotten luck! I was hoping they wouldn't have to face each other so early. My heart belongs to Bayern, tho so I'll be rooting for them while feeling gutted at an Arsenal loss at the same time. Man, Leicester keeps dodging the big boys huh? Sevilla should be able to beat them though. I mean they've won the Europa League like 3x in a row now? Clearly they're tough.

[AimingforYoko]

PSG 4 Barca 0.

WTF?!?

[JustaPerson]

Happy that Bayern won but feeling really bad for Arsenal. I was thinking it would be 2-0 or 1-0, not 5-1!

[ganesh]

I was hoping Napoli was going to push more for a second away goal. 3-1, 4-1 really doesn't make a difference. If they're planning on shutting out Madrid on the road, that's a tall order. 

[ganesh]

This Man City game is insanity.

[proserpina65]

On ‎02‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 10:30 PM, JustaPerson said:

Happy that Bayern won but feeling really bad for Arsenal. I was thinking it would be 2-0 or 1-0, not 5-1!

Hey, all Arsenal has to do is score 4 goals at home without allowing Bayern to score any, and they'd advance on away goals.  Piece of cake!

<sobs loudly into pillow>

[ganesh]

You have got to be kidding me.