International Soccer/Football & UEFA Champions League

[DoctorAtomic]

I'm hopeful for the US because they are a reasonably good team. I don't think you can predict anything with either England or Wales. 

Not playing in Europe and potentially above average temperatures help. 

[proserpina65]

On 6/9/2022 at 2:04 PM, Fukui San said:

I don't follow Football that closely, so forgive me if this is a dumb question. Can I ask how it is that Harry Maguire seems to be both a YouTube meme for comically bad defending and an unquestioned cornerstone starter for the England team? Is one or another of those assertions inaccurate? Or is his presence a reason for hope for the US team?

His defending for the national team has been mostly really damned good.  His defending for his club team, not so much.  I wouldn't consider his presence on the team to be a reason to hope.

[Wee S]

On 6/9/2022 at 7:04 PM, Fukui San said:

I don't follow Football that closely, so forgive me if this is a dumb question. Can I ask how it is that Harry Maguire seems to be both a YouTube meme for comically bad defending and an unquestioned cornerstone starter for the England team? Is one or another of those assertions inaccurate? Or is his presence a reason for hope for the US team?

Maguire only plays for England every-so-often, usually against teams much weaker; therefore looks rock solid in defence. However, week in week out for United he regularly leaves his line, makes stupid mistakes, blames others for them but rarely leads/takes responsibility for his actions like a strong, pricy captain should. See his post cupping his ears after he scored against...Andorra (or some such team). As if that would silence his critics. I doubt he's United's captain next season - either DDG, Ronaldo or even Bruno.

[Danielg342]

This thread needs some attention...the UEFA Champions League draw came out on Monday for the Round of 16 and it's a doozy:

• Man City vs. Leipzig
• Benfica vs. Club Brugge
• Real Madrid vs. Liverpool
• Tottenham vs. Milan
• Napoli vs. Frankfurt
• Chelsea vs. Dortmund
• Porto vs. Inter
• Bayern Munich vs. Paris Saint-Germain

Aside from City-Leipzig, they all look pretty even and difficult to predict. It's also intriguing to see a repeat of last year's final in the Round of 16.

I'm an Inter guy, so, while I'm not at all worried about facing anyone in the Champions League, I am glad we drew Porto and missed out on drawing someone like Real Madrid or Chelsea. This isn't to say that FC Porto will be a cakewalk, but it won't be as daunting a challenge as it could be with other teams.

[Salacious Kitty]

Bayern and PSG! 😮

[Danielg342]

3 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Bayern and PSG! 😮

The rematch of the 2020 final should be fun too. If PSG can overcome this challenge maybe they can really can- finally- win it all.

[JTMacc99]

On 6/9/2022 at 2:30 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

I'm hopeful for the US because they are a reasonably good team. I don't think you can predict anything with either England or Wales. 

Not playing in Europe and potentially above average temperatures help. 

I just filled out my World Cup bracket for our work pool. It certainly feels like the US could advance to the round of 16.

It also feels like this tournament is headed for a semi-final match of Brazil vs Argentina on the left side and some sort of European powerhouse semi-final on the right side. That would certainly be fun to watch. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I still think the US is in a winnable group, but I'm all survive and advance. Get a lucky draw for 16. 

[JTMacc99]

On 11/18/2022 at 1:53 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

I still think the US is in a winnable group, but I'm all survive and advance. Get a lucky draw for 16. 

In my grid, I have the US coming in second and getting Senegal in the round of 16.  After that, if they were to win, I have them facing the winner of the Argentina/(France or Denmark) game. I feel pretty confident that Argentina will be winning their group and advancing to that game. 

So in other words, it would be a really good job by the US team to get to the quarterfinals before running into one of the tournament favorites.

But I would think that TODAY'S game is super important to set up any of those things happening. 

[Fukui San]

Should we start a World Cup thread or just post in here?

Looking at how the England/Iran game went, I kind of think that today's US/Wales team is pretty much everything. Both US and Wales should be expected to beat Iran and lose to England unless something goofy happens.

[DoctorAtomic]

45 minutes ago, JTMacc99 said:

But I would think that TODAY'S game is super important to set up any of those things happening. 

9 minutes ago, Fukui San said:

Looking at how the England/Iran game went, I kind of think that today's US/Wales team is pretty much everything. Both US and Wales should be expected to beat Iran and lose to England unless something goofy happens.

I'm not one to be dramatic, but this is must win for the US today, especially with England having a +4 now. I'd just harass Bale up and down the pitch all game and wear them out. With only being the first match, the 3 points is paramount over how many goals. 

I think posting in here is fine for the World Cup. 

[JTMacc99]

40 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I think posting in here is fine for the World Cup. 

I thought about starting one for the World Cup, but this is a relatively quiet topic that probably won't have much or any non-Cup activity for the next month.

So it feels like it's fine to discuss it here. 

And yeah, it sure does feel like a "Must Win" game for the US right out of the gate.

[Fukui San]

Well, for some reason I feel the need to go over the group stage advancement tie breakers.

1. Goal Differential
2. Goals Scored
3. Head to Head record
4. Goal differential in matches between tied teams (3 teams tied only)
5. Goals scored in matches between the tied teams (3 teams tied only)
6. Fair Play (Fewest yellow/red cards)
7. Literal coin flip

[DoctorAtomic]

I never get why head to head isn't the first. I beat you, but you beat someone by more than I beat them, so I lose. 

I'm not blaming officiating on the result. Clear penalty. However, the referee was not the top tier. You're giving out yellows in the 11th minute; you can't keep that up and be consistent. You have to give out like 9 of them. Then when you stop for injury

USA absolutely cannot lose on Friday, and need England to beat Wales. Someday when the USA figures out that they have to play 90 minutes in a row, they're actually going to be a squad to be reckoned. 

[Fukui San]

Thought it was a fair result. But only watched without listening to commentary. Pretty much 50/50 between US and Wales advancing. US looked like dogcrap in recent months, so this draw is better than that would suggest.

[Wee S]

I do not know how the US managed to lose that because Wales were a shambles. If it wasn't for that penalty...but then again, they should have went for the kill. I still think you will get out of the group (ENG will win it) but won't go much further. Wales has clearly let the occasion get to them, but unless they beat Iran big? Then you will go through. My Welsh ex looks unsettlingly like Gareth Bale, so I have to look away when he's on screen, or turn it over when he's being interviewed **shudders**.

Ireland aren't there, so I'm supporting:

1. France - work sweepstake 

2. NED - Who doesn't love the Dutch?

3. ARG - Lisandro Martinez has become my fave Utd player so looking forward to him going nuts on a bigger stage

[DoctorAtomic]

Wales had barely a half a chance in the run of play to get a goal. The US just had to play 90 minutes. 

[Wee S]

WELL! There you go Argentina! Shock first-round boot?

I'm glad they lost; they've rested on their laurels for too long. The Saudi football team deserved more respect as it felt ike this match was to be a walk-over. ME countries have alot to prove this world cup, so others may watch out.

Despite the awful association with MBS, I am glad for the Saudi players. They worked hard, defended like hell. I mean, I won't be adding them to the teams I support but well done on this one.

[AimingforYoko]

Shocking result. Argentina will still probably advance, but if they don't it will be as surprising as when defending champ Germany didn't four years ago.

[Wee S]

I'm off work this week due to covid, but I'm already bored/footballed out.

If only DEN hadn't been offside there, it may have redeemed it. Still in the warm-up stage and I just want to get on with it!

[DoctorAtomic]

A keeper only has a superman game like that once. He picked a good match to have it. 

Mexico isn't going to be an easy out for Argentina on Saturday if it's a must win for them, and not for Mexico. 

[DoctorAtomic]

Looks like it's super keeper day at the World Cup. 

[Wee S]

Just now, DoctorAtomic said:

Looks like it's super keeper day at the World Cup. 

I knew he was gonna bottle it! I was hoping to nap through this game, so I could watch France later in peace...but nope.

[DoctorAtomic]

Any PK stop is a good stop, but the attempt was lacking in velocity. 

[proserpina65]

20 hours ago, Fukui San said:

Thought it was a fair result. But only watched without listening to commentary. Pretty much 50/50 between US and Wales advancing. US looked like dogcrap in recent months, so this draw is better than that would suggest.

The commentary was terrible.  The American announcers aren't very good to start with and then you add in how incredibly biased they are and they just become unlistenable.  I get that Ian Darke can't call every match but there are other British announcers who are good and who are capable of keeping their national biases out of their work.  Hell, there are even a few American ones who can do that.

19 hours ago, Wee S said:

I do not know how the US managed to lose that because Wales were a shambles. If it wasn't for that penalty...but then again, they should have went for the kill.

I disagree.  Wales was something of a shambles in the first half but improved drastically in the second.  The US got lucky that Wales didn't score on their multiple opportunities in the second half.

20 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I never get why head to head isn't the first. I beat you, but you beat someone by more than I beat them, so I lose. 

Goal difference comes first because it's a better indicator of which team played better overall.

[Wee S]

And Ronaldo is gone!

Loved him for what he did in the past, but that interview was beyond the pale and he had to go. Now its time for Bruno etc to step up and show us what they can really do.

[DoctorAtomic]

24 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

Goal difference comes first because it's a better indicator of which team played better overall.

Beating the other team is the best indicator though. 

[proserpina65]

Just now, DoctorAtomic said:

Beating the other team is the best indicator though. 

Not necessarily.

[Oosala]

7 hours ago, Wee S said:

[KSA] worked hard, defended like hell.

I totally agree.  They put on a defensive master class in this match and they deserved to win (in spite of Messi's master class in diving). Just once I'd like to see Messi booked for simulation.  Also, I have no idea why I'm picking on Lionel so much!  He's a great player.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Oosala

[DoctorAtomic]

They could also not be offside 17 million times too. 

[AimingforYoko]

France pretty quickly made sure there would not be another upset today.

[proserpina65]

17 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

France pretty quickly made sure there would not be another upset today.

I was rooting for Australia, as I do have a soft spot for underdogs when they're not playing my favorite teams, but I can't deny that France ended up making it look easy.

Edited November 23, 2022 by proserpina65

[Wee S]

That 2nd goal by Japan...what a goal!

Shocked but not shocked by GER defeat, they just aren't exciting - I hope that changes going forward and they aren't an early boot.

Going to skip Spain vs Costa Rica, I just find Spain sooooo boring. 

[DoctorAtomic]

Is there just a lot of stoppage time in general at the end of these matches? You don't see typically over 5 minutes, and I'm seeing a lot of 7s. There's also a lot of offsides to me. 

[Wee S]

13 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Is there just a lot of stoppage time in general at the end of these matches? You don't see typically over 5 minutes, and I'm seeing a lot of 7s. There's also a lot of offsides to me. 

Itv and BBC have made a huge point explaining this. Basically, they are reclaiming all the time lost to stoppages incl injuries, subs, VAR etc. Pierre luigi Collina raised it that on average, the ball is in play 57 mins out of 90 so they are trying to resolve that issue.

[cleo]

Any Canadians watching today? I wasn't going to, but maybe I will.

I'm not a big soccer fan, I don't really get it lol. They just seem to run back and forth for an hour. Or two I guess. Like it's very athletic, and I'm sure there's some strategy, but I find it hard to get into.

I did watch a couple of the qualifying matches though. 

Eta I think over the last couple years I've watched maybe 3 or 4 games total. So far I have found the fans and the hoopla before and after the game the most interesting part heh.

Edited November 23, 2022 by cleo

[Fukui San]

37 minutes ago, cleo said:

Any Canadians watching today? I wasn't going to, but maybe I will.

I'm not a big soccer fan, I don't really get it lol. They just seem to run back and forth for an hour. Or two I guess. Like it's very athletic, and I'm sure there's some strategy, but I find it hard to get into.

I did watch a couple of the qualifying matches though. 

Eta I think over the last couple years I've watched maybe 3 or 4 games total. So far I have found the fans and the hoopla before and after the game the most interesting part heh.

Just think of it as slow Hockey, lol. 

[Wee S]

Here, I am not here for this 'slow' nonsense slander! I have been to football matches, 6 nations rugby, GAA matches and NFL and by far the slowest game was the NFL one! 3 hours man!! 

Anyway, should be a good game against Belgium. Well rated but always fall short. They just don't have the killer instinct France etc have.

7 minutes ago, Fukui San said:

Just think of it as slow Hockey, lol. 

[AimingforYoko]

Matches like Spain-Costa Rica don't help. Costa Rica did not attempt a shot on goal, pitiful.

[Fukui San]

1 hour ago, Wee S said:

Here, I am not here for this 'slow' nonsense slander! I have been to football matches, 6 nations rugby, GAA matches and NFL and by far the slowest game was the NFL one! 3 hours man!! 

You can think of American Football as violent, bureaucratic rugby.  

[Oosala]

I'm half German so I was bummed out.  If Gündoğan's shot hadn't hit the post...  I know, I know, it DID hit the post.  No sense playing the 'what if' game.

Also, I'm from the U.S. and I think the NFL is way overrated, and not just the Super Bowl.  I don't have enough time to follow an NFL team, even if they do play only once a week.  And the linebackers look so out of shape.  I don't wanna see that.  It's World Football for me.

5 hours ago, Wee S said:

they are reclaiming all the time lost to stoppages incl injuries, subs, VAR etc.

Thanks so much for this explanation.  I'm recording most matches and I'm adding extra time to each recording.  The stoppage time at the end of the match when that KSA man was stretchered off was something like 18 or 19 minutes.  My DVR ran out at the end of that match.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Oosala

[DoctorAtomic]

3 hours ago, Wee S said:

Itv and BBC have made a huge point explaining this. Basically, they are reclaiming all the time lost to stoppages incl injuries, subs, VAR etc. Pierre luigi Collina raised it that on average, the ball is in play 57 mins out of 90 so they are trying to resolve that issue.

I also forgot when I posted that they're doing the 5 subs also. Typically, the second half gets more stoppage because of the subs, more fouls if the game is tight, more people going down if the game is tight and if you're winning. Throw in VAR and +5 to +7 isn't that much. It's just jarring when the clock is on 98 or even 100 minutes regulation.

2 hours ago, Wee S said:

Here, I am not here for this 'slow' nonsense slander!

This is actually the double edge with the world cup. On average, any international squad isn't as good as the top pro teams. Then, there's only 3 matches to advance. You're going to get largely more conservative play. You look at any EPL game, and it's up and down the pitch, shots all over the place. The elite elite international teams, ok. Even then, they're still more conservative overall in the group stage. 

Canada is blowing these set pieces playing the ball way too long. 

Edited November 23, 2022 by DoctorAtomic

[blackwing]

Gutted for Canada.  Completely outplayed Belgium in the first half.  Alphonso Davies couldn't convert a penalty kick and then Belgium snuck in a goal just before the end of the half.

Commentators on Fox were saying that Canada should have also gotten some other calls that didn't go their way.  There seemed to be a clear shove from behind that knocked the attacker down in the box, that should have been another penalty, but I guess the officials (and the rules expert that Fox had who said he would probably let it go) didn't agree.

Belgium looked better in the second half.  I'm thankful that Croatia and Morocco tied earlier, so Canada still has a decent chance to advance out of the group.

[Oosala]

27 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Commentators on Fox were saying that Canada should have also gotten some other calls that didn't go their way.

Yes, I just read that.  I didn't watch the match but I'm glad Belgium won (I love me some de Bruyne and Lukaku).  I do hate it when there's controversy over a win though.

I have a silly question.  When do the National teams practice together?  I follow the EPL and it seems like their weeks are pretty full with EPL matches and various Cup games.  Players must practice with their clubs AND their National teams.  What a scheduling nightmare, man.

[blackwing]

9 minutes ago, Oosala said:

Yes, I just read that.  I didn't watch the match but I'm glad Belgium won (I love me some de Bruyne and Lukaku).  I do hate it when there's controversy over a win though.

I wouldn't say the win was controversial, more like Canada probably thought it should have gotten some calls.  To me, it's you win some, you lose some.  Canada definitely had many chances and just couldn't capitalise.  The Belgian keeper was amazing.

Lukaku didn't play, he is out with an injury for at least the first two games, possibly more.

[DoctorAtomic]

4 minutes ago, blackwing said:

The Belgian keeper was amazing.

He's arguably the best in the business. I've been following him for 5 years or so and there's just no drop off. 

17 minutes ago, Oosala said:

I have a silly question.  When do the National teams practice together?  I follow the EPL and it seems like their weeks are pretty full with EPL matches and various Cup games.

You look at a Messi or Lewandowski, Kane, not so much Ronaldo anymore; these guys have major minutes with the clubs + champions league, then national team duty for over 4 cycles of not only World Cup, but Euros, Copa. That's clearing 60 matches per year. 

There's a 'national team break' several times per year, where the pro leagues will go on hiatus and there will be friendlies, tournaments. Over here, it's the Gold Cup, and everyone now plays in the League of Nations. 

However, they don't always play in every match. Sometimes the big guys will sit out friendlies, even some qualifiers. Some of the pro Cup tournaments are for the 'B squad'. I think EPL has three cup series, and only one is the 'big one'. Still though, top guys are logging miles per year. I don't fault them for the major dollars they're hauling in. 

[Wee S]

I've just looked to tomorrow's fixtures and I must say, none of them appeal to me. Maybe Brazil- Serbia at a stretch; but not even Portugal (they were a fave during Figo's time but now I just can't deal with Ronaldo's drama). I think having watched all of the matches so far has fatigued me and I need a break... But who am I kidding - of course I'll be watching from the 2nd half of SUI - CAM! I just can't not watch, especially if Roy Keane is giving analysis.

[Wee S]

Rather enjoyed Uruguay v S.Korea in the end. Korea put up a good fight but even though it ended in a draw, I think Uruguay have a little bit more finesse and will get better as the group stage goes on. Nice to see Cavani again and as always, Suarez can do one.

Now Ghana, do us all a favour and humiliate Ronaldo accordingly.

[HartofDixie]

Força Portugal!

[DoctorAtomic]

Too many PKs in this World Cup.