Ratings and Scheduling: Who's the fairest of them all?

[Tiger]

I spoke to my friend at ABC Studios and she said Once is absolutely, unequivocally, definitively NOT being renewed.  ABC has already approached ABC Studios about financing for next season for every single show produced or co-produced by it, except for Once.  

[Rumsy4]

Doesn't prove anything, even if your source is correct. It could mean abc is holding off on the decision--as we already knew from Dungey's interviews. It could also mean a limited episode order, and a later start, as we have discussed in this thread previously. 

[Hookian]

4 hours ago, Mathius said:

That is possible, but if that's the case then it will probably be an even shorter final season than initially suspected.

Then again, at this point that might be a benefit.

They could finish 13 episodes in the Fall. Just don't have any breaks.

[Hookian]

3 hours ago, Tiger said:

 

2 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

Doesn't prove anything, even if your source is correct. It could mean abc is holding off on the decision--as we already knew from Dungey's interviews. It could also mean a limited episode order, and a later start, as we have discussed in this thread previously. 

Let's not forget how "reliable" his source is considering he said that Time After Time would absolutely not get the lead in slot after OUAT. How ABC has absolutely no faith in OUAT to stay at it's original slot, and what do you know it is.

Goes to show how legit his "source" is.

Edited January 13, 2017 by Hookian

[Mathius]

Honestly, his source has been more correct than not, and being wrong on one thing doesn't invalidate it.  

Really, I think the writing is on the wall.  I doubt Hyperion will be rejected, and they'll probably want to launch it in Fall rather than Spring.  A limited order is POSSIBLE, but that doesn't make it PROBABLE.  When Channing Dungey sounds more enthused about Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D and certain about its renewal than OUAT despite even lower ratings, that's a pretty obvious sign that the network is over OUAT and are ready to move on to new things.

I'm reminded of this earlier post:

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What folks like that fail to account for is that ABC will be turning over one, possibly two hours currently occupied by drama to comedy next fall.

This fall ABC had 9 hours of drama on the fall schedule.  Let's say they only do 7 next fall, which is increasingly looking like the most likely scenario.  

Grey's, Scandal, Murder, Designated, and Inhumans/Shield will take up 5 of those hours.  That means all the other existing dramas and the new pilots are competing for just two slots.

Once is done.  Everything else aside, it's basic math.

With S.H.I.E.L.D now a shoe-in for renewal due to the Marvel factor and still having a budget to spend on it, that means that the 5 hours are filled exactly.  This leaves two hours for drama, with many new pilots competing for those slots.  Two of them are another Marvel show (Inhumans) and a new Disney-based one (Hyperion), giving them the greatest chances.  Unless OUAT gets a limited order, a S7 is a no-go, and S6 will be the end.

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It could mean abc is holding off on the decision--as we already knew from Dungey's interviews. 

Ask yourself this: if getting a S7 is entirely dependent on A&E's pitch for one, do you trust them to create a good enough pitch for ABC?

Edited January 13, 2017 by Mathius

[Souris]

This is very cynical, but I wonder if there is a bit of brinkmanship going on between A&E, ABC & JMo. I believe A&E are fully prepared to go on without JMo if she doesn't re-up. ABC absolutely would be, too, if they believed the show would survive it in a profitable fashion. A&E obviously knew that JMo's contract is up at the end of S6. If she indicated to them over the summer that she possibly might not re-up (which she indicated in the podcast), then I think the way Emma and CS have been (mis)treated this season has been a direct result of that.

A&E have been dangling the Damoclean sword of Emma's death over the season. They've separated CS into separate stories and withheld major CS scenes. They made Princess Emma into a weak, infantile person who cowered to Regina. They know how protective JMo is of Emma and how much she loves her and the CS relationship. It's coming off to me as "punishment" for JMo not committing early to another season -- like, "Look what we can do to Emma." We know how petty A&E can be (ref: Shanna's story of blackballing the reporter, plus tons of defensive answers to fans and reporters). It may be a subconscious thing on their part rather than deliberate. But it feels quite pointed to me. I mean, they've never really supported Emma or JMo as much as they should, certainly not as much as Regina and Lana, so it's not like this is totally outside their M.O. But it's more concentrated. They've promised JMo we'd find out about her tattoo -- now, suddenly, it's a terse "no" to that.

Now I think JMo is playing a bit of a PR game. She's not stupid and she knows the biz. She gave the quote about being protective of Emma and not wanting to abandon the story, but at the same time saying she's not going to do this forever. She's suddenly back on Twitter and engaging with fans. It's a smart move while negotiations may (or may not) be going on behind the scenes. If it comes down to it, the fans are going to be behind her and Emma, not A&E or ABC. Fans don't really care about business decisions; they care about their favorite characters.

[Tiger]

11 hours ago, Hookian said:

Let's not forget how "reliable" his source is considering he said that Time After Time would absolutely not get the lead in slot after OUAT. How ABC has absolutely no faith in OUAT to stay at it's original slot, and what do you know it is.

Goes to show how legit his "source" is.

I dont know what you want.  I'm just passing along what I've been told.

Things change constantly in show business, but my friend has been adamant for months that Once isn't being renewed.  The network and the studio aren't even discussing it.

Edited January 13, 2017 by Tiger

[Mathius]

2 minutes ago, Tiger said:

I dont know what you want.  I'm just passing along what I've been told.

Things change constantly in show business, but my friend has been adamant for months that Once isn't being renewed.  The network and the studio aren't even discussing it.

She wants OUAT to be renewed for a final season, even if shortened, and doesn't want to believe that this is looking less and less likely.

Also, without divulging any names, can you give us an impression as to what your friend's position at ABC is, and thus how credible their info is?

Edited January 13, 2017 by Mathius

[Rumsy4]

2 hours ago, Souris said:

This is very cynical, but I wonder if there is a bit of brinkmanship going on between A&E, ABC & JMo. I believe A&E are fully prepared to go on without JMo if she doesn't re-up. ABC absolutely would be, too, if they believed the show would survive it in a profitable fashion. ....It's coming off to me as "punishment" for JMo not committing early to another season

Sorry, but this seems a bunch of extrapolation based on nothing. Emma's always acted a bit sycophantically with Regina ever since S4. It's nothing new. And the "Emma is dying" hand-wringing is just a retread of the Dark Swan plot, worked slightly differently. I listened to the JMo podcast, and she gave a very diplomatic answer--indicating nothing one way or the other. She even complimented A&E at one point when talking about Emma's costume choices, but at the same time made it clear that she was waiting for abc's decision on the Show's renewal before making any decisions. A&E's problem is likely not whether JMo wants to renew her contract, but whether abc would want to renew the show with the failing ratings.

If anything, it's likely Robert Carlyle who refused to commit to another season--which is why they increased the focus on Rumbelle this season so they could give Rumple a send-off if need be. 

4 hours ago, Mathius said:

Ask yourself this: if getting a S7 is entirely dependent on A&E's pitch for one, do you trust them to create a good enough pitch for ABC?

I actually don't think creating a good pitch is the problem. I just don't trust them to follow through. They'll probably pitch something abc wants to hear, but when it comes to actual execution, it might be a train-wreck. Although, I'm starting to doubt their ability to even paint in broad-strokes anymore. 

I think a chance of getting S7 is dependent on a bunch of different things. I do think it can go either way at this point, but I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet based on second-hand insider info.

[TheGreenKnight]

5 hours ago, Mathius said:

She wants OUAT to be renewed for a final season, even if shortened, and doesn't want to believe that this is looking less and less likely.

Well, that's a bit nasty. It may be more of a case that taking an unknown source at their word seems silly and irrational, whether or not OUAT's future or lack thereof is uncertain.

[Souris]

13 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Sorry, but this seems a bunch of extrapolation based on nothing.

Oh, yeah, it's simply my reading of the situation. Nothing but a theory! I just feel like SOMETHING is going on that's affected the storyline, Emma & CS this year, so my mind is constantly trying to make "sense" of it.

As for "sources," I'm all for healthy skepticism. I never take anything as gospel that somebody I don't know says on the Internet (and often even if I do "know" the person!). On the other hand, I've been in situations with other shows where I knew things that I couldn't reveal how I knew because it would "burn" the source. So I just take things as possible truths but not gospel.

Edited January 13, 2017 by Souris

[KingOfHearts]

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I actually don't think creating a good pitch is the problem. I just don't trust them to follow through. They'll probably pitch something abc wants to hear, but when it comes to actual execution, it might be a train-wreck. Although, I'm starting to doubt their ability to even paint in broad-strokes anymore. 

Is it me, or has ABC been too trusting of A&E over the years? They've been called "master storytellers" as if they wrote every movie in the Disney renaissance. It seems like A&E have failed in the ratings so many times, even when given higher budgets and iconic characters. They get away with a lot. Supposedly, the network stepped in for S6, but it may have happened similarly to what you just said, Rumsy4. Dungey could have said, "You need to do Aladdin", but A&E could have screwed it up.

Edited January 13, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

2 minutes ago, Souris said:

I just feel like SOMETHING is going on that's affected the storyline, Emma & CS this year, so my mind is constantly trying to make "sense" of it.

The thing is, literally all storylines have been affected this season becasue of the REC. It may feel worse for Emma/CS becasue we came off a season that had a somewhat larger focus on Emma and CS than the previous seasons. Hook and Zelena (A&E's pet) have also taken a backseat this season. I know A&E got bored with Snowing a long time ago, but one half of Snowing is literally sleeping (I think they took over the sleep-quota typically allocated to Belle). The rage-inducing double-Regina overdose is skewing everything, IMO. 

5 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

They've been called "master storytellers" as if they wrote every movie in the Disney renaissance.

A&E probably think that of themselves, and it likely led to their overconfidence in renewal.

[Hookian]

2 hours ago, TheGreenKnight said:

Well, that's a bit nasty. It may be more of a case that taking an unknown source at their word seems silly and irrational, whether or not OUAT's future or lack thereof is uncertain.

Exactly especially when said source has been wrong on numerous occassions.

5 hours ago, Mathius said:

She wants OUAT to be renewed for a final season, even if shortened, and doesn't want to believe that this is looking less and less likely.

Also, without divulging any names, can you give us an impression as to what your friend's position at ABC is, and thus how credible their info is?

How is it looking less and less likely? A random source that has been wrong numerous times is somehow in the know. Give me a break, you want to that gullible be my guest but I don't fall for stuff like this.

Also Dungey is not at all certain about AOS's future. Notice how she never mentioned AOS when she talked about the future of the show. In fact the reporter never asked about new seasons, just the future. The future for AOS could be a stint on the Inhumans here or there.

She was much more clear about OUAT than AOS. With AOS she immediately turned the topic towards the Marvel universe as a whole and also the Inhumans coming this fall. 

That to me is not a good sign for AOS. Meanwhile with OUAT she's much more clear. She said she's discussing things with Adam and Eddy, storylines, etc, before giving them the okay which I'm sure they will. 

Edited January 14, 2017 by Hookian

[Hookian]

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Ask yourself this: if getting a S7 is entirely dependent on A&E's pitch for one, do you trust them to create a good enough pitch for ABC?

Well ABC thought Split Queen was a great arc....so you know. I'm sure that the pitch will be successful. As long as JMO is in, and Colin then I'll stay. Either one bounces so do I.

[KAOS Agent]

The confirmation that cast contracts are up this season added to my belief that the show is likely done. If there is a delay or major problems with one of the new dramas ABC is developing, I could see them giving Once a short season to bridge the gap to a spring launch, but sagging ratings, a bloated, bored cast and a need to renegotiate with a lowered budget tells me that cancellation is more likely than not.

[sharky]

Well, we also have to see what happens in the next month or so. Between now and Once will be the return of Grey, Murder, AoS and Quantico in a new time slot plus the start of Scandal for this season. Once falls in the middle of those. Time After Time and Designated Survivor are in March around the same time as Once. Notorious and Conviction are essentially cancelled. So you're going to have to fill some hours and while the Futon Critic development list is long, how many of those will actually make it? And depending on what Hyperion really becomes, could it be a good pairing with Once? I know ratings aren't great but they aren't bad either and there are going to be several other factors involved that haven't played out yet. It will be really interesting to see what kind of ratings AoS and Quantico pull in the next few weeks.

[Mathius]

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Also Dungey is not at all certain about AOS's future. Notice how she never mentioned AOS when she talked about the future of the show. In fact the reporter never asked about new seasons, just the future. The future for AOS could be a stint on the Inhumans here or there. She was much more clear about OUAT than AOS. With AOS she immediately turned the topic towards the Marvel universe as a whole and also the Inhumans coming this fall. 

Yeah, read this again:

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How do you feel about the state of Marvel on ABC?
Look, we are incredibly encouraged. Season 4 of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. has been creatively the strongest season we’ve had yet. The episodes just keep getting better and stronger. And that’s another one for us that we moved from 9 to 10 and yet even though the HUD levels are softer at 10, the live-same-day has remained the same and that’s another one of our shows which regularly goes up triple digits over the seven-day period, anywhere from 100 to 110 percent.

So you see a future for S.H.I.E.L.D.?
Absolutely. I’m very bullish on S.H.I.E.L.D. and we’re also really excited about our production with Marvel, ABC Studios, and IMAX, which we are working on for next fall as well.

She just says "I'm very bullish on S.H.I.E.L.D", as in the show.  She is determined to keep it, a determination she doesn't have for OUAT.

Quote

Exactly especially when said source has been wrong on numerous occassions.

Can you list those numerous occasions?  Because the one instance of being wrong you listed...wasn't from that source, it was forum speculation. The source in question has actually been right about the change in the network going on, a change that OUAT doesn't seem to gel with at all.

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She said she's discussing things with Adam and Eddy, storylines, etc, before giving them the okay which I'm sure they will. 

No, she's allowing them to plead their case, with no guarantee that they'll sway her to order a S7.  No matter what "good ideas" for future seasons they allegedly have, there are much more factors about the show (ratings, budget, cast contracts, etc.) to consider, to say nothing of the shift in the network plus the new pilots coming in, one of which is a Disney synergy product.  I'm sorry, but the deck is clearly stacked against OUAT here.

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but sagging ratings, a bloated, bored cast and a need to renegotiate with a lowered budget tells me that cancellation is more likely than not.

EXACTLY. OUAT is just plain more trouble than it's worth at this point.

Edited January 14, 2017 by Mathius

[Hookian]

1 hour ago, sharky said:

Well, we also have to see what happens in the next month or so. Between now and Once will be the return of Grey, Murder, AoS and Quantico in a new time slot plus the start of Scandal for this season. Once falls in the middle of those. Time After Time and Designated Survivor are in March around the same time as Once. Notorious and Conviction are essentially cancelled. So you're going to have to fill some hours and while the Futon Critic development list is long, how many of those will actually make it? And depending on what Hyperion really becomes, could it be a good pairing with Once? I know ratings aren't great but they aren't bad either and there are going to be several other factors involved that haven't played out yet. It will be really interesting to see what kind of ratings AoS and Quantico pull in the next few weeks.

Barely any of those in development pilots will make it to see the light of day. The Hyperion might make it but I doubt it'll be in time for the fall, maybe the Spring. Which would work for OUAT cause they could get a final season out of it.

[Hookian]

4 hours ago, KAOS Agent said:

The confirmation that cast contracts are up this season added to my belief that the show is likely done. If there is a delay or major problems with one of the new dramas ABC is developing, I could see them giving Once a short season to bridge the gap to a spring launch, but sagging ratings, a bloated, bored cast and a need to renegotiate with a lowered budget tells me that cancellation is more likely than not.

There's no confirmation of all cast. Likely it's just the originals and I'm sure if they were to find out that S7 is the end they would have no problems with the whole 6 +1 contract they probably all have. It's the standard contract. None of the other regulars since S1 are needing new contracts. Just the 6 the show started with. Actually 5 because Lana got a new contract in the back half of S1.

JMO has no problems signing for 1 more season, more maybe would be an issue but LBR the show only has 1 more season at best no matter what A and E have in mind. Unless they plan on bringing in Moana and Zootopia or something(which would be stupid).

The only cast member I can imagine being difficult would be Bobby. If so then wrap up Rumbelle this season and send them on the merry way and maybe come back for a guest stint or two in the final season.

Notice how nowhere else in the web are people talking about the shows cancellation. Just here, I wonder why.

[Selina K]

I have been a die hard fan of the show and specifically Emma, then CS all along.  I have read spoilers with abandon. I would check the boards multiple times a day.  Over the summer I would go back and read boards I had missed or threads I had not completed during the airing season.  I hand waved Regina and was happy with the CS moments I got.  

Now I am here every few days at best. There may be half page of spoilers or maybe just one or two posts in that time.  I know fan forums are not an accurate gauge, but if you look at enthusiasm and activity here, when even your die hards are pulling back, I think you have to feel people who are in it for the money, absent other factors compelling a continuation, like no new shows, cannot be too enthusiastic about this property either.  I loved this show, and I love the potential for the stories they could have told, but the reality is there. They aren't going to tell me those stories.  A&E built a land full of interesting characters and relationships, and they just as certainly drove a stake through the heart of that land. I am sad, but not as sad as I could have been.

[sharky]

9 hours ago, Mathius said:

Can you list those numerous occasions?  Because the one instance of being wrong you listed...wasn't from that source, it was forum speculation. The source in question has actually been right about the change in the network going on, a change that OUAT doesn't seem to gel with at all.

Did you miss all the posts about how ABC wouldn't cancel Conviction because Channing Dungey's sister is on the show? That thing is all but dead.

1 hour ago, Selina K said:

Now I am here every few days at best. There may be half page of spoilers or maybe just one or two posts in that time.  I know fan forums are not an accurate gauge, but if you look at enthusiasm and activity here, when even your die hards are pulling back, I think you have to feel people who are in it for the money, absent other factors compelling a continuation, like no new shows, cannot be too enthusiastic about this property either.  I loved this show, and I love the potential for the stories they could have told, but the reality is there. They aren't going to tell me those stories.  A&E built a land full of interesting characters and relationships, and they just as certainly drove a stake through the heart of that land. I am sad, but not as sad as I could have been.

First, this is a hiatus and there hasn't been much outdoor shooting so we haven't had much to talk about. It's happened in previous years as well. And second, this trend happens to all fandom communities for a show this long. Can't remember if I mentioned it here or elsewhere, but my fanfic doesn't get as many views or comments as it used to. That being said, my tumblr feed still has plenty of fanfic and fan art in it and people still involved, but the actual fan interaction has gone down a little. Same with when I was in The Office fandom. At some point, the market for over analysis and fan-made art dwindles. Happened around season 7 of The Office for me and that went on for two more seasons. Doesn't mean that I didn't like the show -- just that I was a little done with the extra analysis and fanfic writing. I've been writing Once fanfic for three seasons now. At some point, you just run out of ideas. But I'm also not a show runner so running out of ideas isn't that big of a deal for me.

[Tiger]

Don't forget, ABC has already picked up 2.5 hrs of new programming for fall.  Based on everything I've heard and my own gut feeling, here is what I think ABC would do if they announced the fall schedule today:

Mon: Kyra Sedgewick/Designated Survivor/Reba

Tue: Middle/Housewife/Blackish/Libby&Malcolm/Marvel

Wed: Goldbergs/Fresh/Modern/Speechless/Grace

Thu: Grey's/Scandal/Murder

Fri: Standing/Documenting Love/Carol Burnett/Ken/news

Sun: AFV/DwtS/Shark

[sharky]

Where are you getting any of that from?

First, they're not moving Dancing to another night and they're not putting two new shows on Monday and Designated Survivor at 9pm. Monday is Dancing/Bachelor. It's one of the few blocks that the network has established success with. Shark is almost always going to be on Friday -- it's cheap and has an older audience, which tends to stay in on Friday. And it tends to have a male audience, which is going to be watching football on Sundays.

Second, where are you getting any of these new shows? Some of these haven't even been ordered to series or pilot by ABC -- a list of which can be found here. So you're picking random shows to fill in your grid just to fill it in. Grace? Still in script phase. So how is that on your fall schedule? And a show that has been picked for a series order isn't even in there.

And I don't see Conviction on your schedule despite your argument weeks ago that it wouldn't get cancelled because Channing would never ditch her sister.

Listen, none of us here are stupid. We know that Once is struggling and that it's going to be a close call to get a renewal. But we also know it has more of a chance to stay on the schedule than a show that hasn't even been ordered to pilot. And we know it's not going to be kicked off the schedule to be replaced by Dancing on Sunday nights.

[Souris]

FWIW, a post about TV contracts. As I think I've mentioned before (my memory isn't what it used to be!), given how contracts can be renegotiated mid-contract, we have zero idea of when anybody on Once's contract ends except for JMo, because she said so. And I think we can say with confidence that the contracts of Colin, Emilie & Bex do not end this season because they signed theirs later.

So, yeah, we are John Snow and know nothing -- except that JMo has a decision to make if there's a S7 (assuming A&E and ABC want her back).

And her take on renewals.

I could see it that ABC has indicated to A&E that the show will probably/maybe be renewed for S7 but JMo is still uncertain and negotiations are still ongoing for her to be in S7. ABC wants things from her, she wants things from ABC, and the question is whether they can come to an agreement or not. JMo strikes me as someone savvy and confident enough to play a bit of hardball to get what she wants. I would totally buy that she'd want contracted fewer episodes in S7 and not sign on for multiple seasons. Meanwhile, ABC would want a guarantee of multiple seasons.

I just hope it doesn't end up in an Angel situation. Fox would only contract with Joss Whedon for one more season, Joss would only contract for two more seasons, and in the end, there were zero more seasons because of it.

Edited January 16, 2017 by Souris

[Eolivet]

Personally I find it so hard to buy this scenario (not you, @Souris -- but your source). This person is utterly insistent that OuaT is renewed, and that this thing with Morrison is merely a negotiation, and they're asking me to believe them over my own lying eyes...

OuaT garners no awards buzz, it's not highly rated (yes, yes, it's the Evil Ratings Queen of Sunday's Crap Mountain), and as far as I'm aware, ABC isn't exactly making bank from Snow White and Captain Hook dolls -- it's Star Wars and Marvel and other things.

I'm not being told that the budget is being slashed and it's losing half the cast, including its most expensive players, as a drastically scaled-down version of its former self, to act as a stopgap until ABC launches a new show. I could believe that, maybe. No, I'm being told that not only does ABC want the show back for season 7, but for multiple seasons! They want Jennifer Morrison back, and are willing to negotiate! This show is all but renewed, and all that's left to do is iron out the creative details! And by the way, they're not ordering more Pilots for this season, but fewer Pilots! They need OuaT! It's basically a done deal!

And I'm thinking, really? ABC is fighting CW for scraps, yet they're absolutely dead-set on keeping the middling-rated veteran fantasy serial with the huge cast...why?

I'm not in the industry, I don't know anyone in the industry, but I find that mind-boggling that ABC -- the network with no NFL properties to prop up its ratings, an aging #TGIT line-up and a new Entertainment President, doesn't want to clean out all the dead wood and start over. It's asking me to believe ABC is some crappy NFL team that has a losing record, hires a new general manager and...keeps the same coach and quarterback! And all the same personnel! Because why would we ever change a thing about our team -- it's wonderful! We don't need to make any changes! We have always been at war with Eastasia!

So, when @Tiger comes in and starts talking sense -- like maybe ABC wants to air more comedies and procedurals and things that make money and maybe it doesn't make much sense to keep the middling-rated fantasy serial with the huge cast...I listen. It makes sense, because these are the moves of a network interested in actually trying to climb their way back to the top, not coast along on the bottom.

If ABC really does renew OuaT, with all its cast, for a full season order with no real budget cuts to speak of, it's no skin off my nose. But I will lose a lot of respect for ABC (not like they care or need it). Because it makes no sense to me. Not ratings sense, not budgetary sense, not awards-buzz sense, not schedule sense. I like ABC as a network -- they have some of my favorite shows. I want to see them do well. But I don't see how keeping OuaT helps them at all.

[TheGreenKnight]

True, we shouldn't take the word of someone who is utterly insistent the show is renewed seriously. No, we should take the word of someone who is utterly insistent the show is over as official news.

I'm going to continue to stick it out in the middle with the rest of the people who don't know anything (and admit it). ABC is the only one who knows what ABC will do and why. It could go either way, imo. It's certainly not a complete crater in the ratings like most of the other shows they'll have to cancel.

[Souris]

Not my source, just throwing out FWIW info!

I'm firmly in the "it could go either way" camp. IMO there are reasons I'd buy on both sides. I can see ABC wanting one more season as a stop-gap because they have so many other fires to put out. I can also see ABC wanting to just say the heck with the dwindling aging show and roll the dice with a new show.

I just know any season without JMo & Emma would be trash. But ABC would do it in a heartbeat if they think they can make some money off it.

Edited January 16, 2017 by Souris

[sharky]

38 minutes ago, Eolivet said:

So, when @Tiger comes in and starts talking sense -- like maybe ABC wants to air more comedies and procedurals and things that make money and maybe it doesn't make much sense to keep the middling-rated fantasy serial with the huge cast...I listen. It makes sense, because these are the moves of a network interested in actually trying to climb their way back to the top, not coast along on the bottom.

I don't think anyone is saying that what is being posted here doesn't make sense, but people are going to be skeptical when you say you have an insider with proof that it's definitely getting cancelled and you've only been posting here for three months while many of us have been here for years. And oh, did you see the proposed schedule with shows that haven't even been picked up and Dancing taking over Once's Sunday spot? Or the posts insisting they won't cancel Conviction because Channing's sister is on the show? And all those comedies they're going to pick up? Sure, but the four shows ABC has already ordered to series for the fall are three dramas and one comedy. I don't trust them and I don't trust this post on tumblr. There is a middle ground that is a rational middle ground that most of us are aware of because we've been here for awhile.

And as for it making money, again, Once is a fantasy show that has other revenue streams that we aren't aware of. How many ABC shows have conventions planned for the year? Or have merchandising with places like Disney or Hot Topic and Funko Pop? Let me know where I can find an Annalise Keating Funko Pop or an ABC comedies convention. Actors are fighting to get on fantasy shows because you can make money on the side from fan conventions -- and guess who gets a cut of those? All that counts towards the bottom line.

[Souris]

Outside revenue stream is definitely a consideration. I think the soundtrack is part of what kept Nashville going on ABC for longer than maybe its ratings warranted -- but that didn't save it from being canceled last season.

One thing ABC should weigh -- but I'm not sure if it does -- is how the show's quality and storyline could dry up that revenue stream if the show pisses off fans too much. Are fans going to spend a bunch of money on a convention for a show that made them angry? Fan passion tends to decline over time anyway, but I think that would be hastened along if the show goes badly. Are, say, CS fans going to want to spend money on dolls or novelizations if CS doesn't get a happy ending? Some will, some won't. Personally, if a show pisses me off badly enough, I won't spend another penny on it, regardless of how much I may once have loved it. I mean, I won't even watch an ep of Quantum Leap to this day because its finale pissed me off just that badly. If it had left me happy, I would probably have the DVDs.

You want to leave fans with a happy nostalgia if you have hopes of an outside revenue stream, not anger. The hardcore fans are the ones who spend the money but they're also the ones who are invested enough to get mad about something. GA may be annoyed but will get over it quickly, but they're not likely to go spend a bunch of money on a show anyway.

Edited January 16, 2017 by Souris

[Hookian]

Why do you link to that source? You do realize whom that is right? Hint she's not at all a reliable source. For crying out loud she said that the reason they were going to Agrabah had to do with Regina's heart and the third wish. She's a moron and nothing she says amounts to anything. 

Stop thinking her word means anything. Most of the time she's sending anons to herself.

4 hours ago, TheGreenKnight said:

True, we shouldn't take the word of someone who is utterly insistent the show is renewed seriously. No, we should take the word of someone who is utterly insistent the show is over as official news.

I'm going to continue to stick it out in the middle with the rest of the people who don't know anything (and admit it). ABC is the only one who knows what ABC will do and why. It could go either way, imo. It's certainly not a complete crater in the ratings like most of the other shows they'll have to cancel.

Me too. I believe neither of these "sources". I'm not gullible or easily persuaded. I have my own mind.

[Hookian]

4 hours ago, Souris said:

Not my source, just throwing out FWIW info!

I'm firmly in the "it could go either way" camp. IMO there are reasons I'd buy on both sides. I can see ABC wanting one more season as a stop-gap because they have so many other fires to put out. I can also see ABC wanting to just say the heck with the dwindling aging show and roll the dice with a new show.

I just know any season without JMo & Emma would be trash. But ABC would do it in a heartbeat if they think they can make some money off it.

JMO is not the only one going through contract negotiations. According to Kat the entire cast that signed from S1 is doing the same thing. TBH I think JMO will be much easier to get then Bobby. I also personally think episode order will not be an issue with her. For some reason you really have a negative view of JMO and I don't understand why.

I don't think at all that JMO is leaving this show, this is not like House. She herself said she will not abandon the show. I have faith things will work out.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Hookian

[orza]

That katmtan person is just another set stalker looking for attention who, apparently, hobnobs with some crew members. She posts low-level gossip and breadcrumbs spoilers to get page views on her tumblr. She doesn't know anything, either, and is often wrong.

[Souris]

6 minutes ago, orza said:

That katmtan person is just another set stalker looking for attention who, apparently, hobnobs with some crew members. She posts low-level gossip and breadcrumbs spoilers to get page views on her tumblr. She doesn't know anything, either, and is often wrong.

Yeah, she also said she didn't know about contracts, so she has no contract info. I think she's just guessing.

[MostlyC]

Remember our sweet mascot?  Please do not make her sad.  

She wants us to treat each other with kindness and respect.

If you feel that someone is working your last nerve, there is this awesome ignore feature that she (and I) would recommend you use.

 

[Souris]

Two drama pilots ordered by ABC.

[ParadoxLost]

1 hour ago, Souris said:

Two drama pilots ordered by ABC.

Wow.  Those sound terrible.

Lets do White Collar or The Mentalist, but with Chris Angel.

Its wrong.  I know its wrong.  But all I can think about with that time travel show is that its going to end up like that episode of South Park where everyone decides to become gay to stop the future from happening cause the future immigrants took their jobs.

[Camera One]

When these concepts are getting early orders, then hopefully, the quality of the new crop isn't great.  If you're in scandal, who will hire you?  The FBI, right?  And isn't using deception to arrest people against their legal rights?  Meanwhile, the "refugee from the future" story sounds like a complete mess in terms of how the worldbuilding would even work.  I guess the producers can always hire A&E as consultants since they did such a great job with the Land of Untold Stories refugee story.  Hope they fail and bomb so "Once" will live another day, LOL.

Edited January 20, 2017 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

Somehow I doubt too many people would be able to suspend disbelief enough to buy that now is the time refugees from the future would head to, or that they'd be coming to this time just to live normal lives instead of doing something to fix the future. It seems like an oddly timed series premise -- like the writers are maybe a year or two too late or several years too early with it. Or else it's meant to be an absurdist dark comedy.

[Tiger]

Those sound awful.

But it's important to remember that these are only ordered pilots; they havent been picked up/ordered to series.

Only dramas Inhumans, untitled Kyra Sedgewick, and untitled Reba, and comedy Libby & Malcolm have actually been ordered to series.  

[Camera One]

1 hour ago, Shanna Marie said:

Somehow I doubt too many people would be able to suspend disbelief enough to buy that now is the time refugees from the future would head to, or that they'd be coming to this time just to live normal lives instead of doing something to fix the future. It seems like an oddly timed series premise -- like the writers are maybe a year or two too late or several years too early with it. Or else it's meant to be an absurdist dark comedy.

The description stressed "conspiracy" so it sounds like one of those "full of twists" serialized dramas.  No doubt the refugees will be full of secrets they can't reveal, with secret messages and a Page 23 written by someone in town in the future, not knowing they're responsible for the ensuing chaos in the future blah blah blah blah.

Edited January 20, 2017 by Camera One

[sharky]

Libby and Malcolm was ordered to pilot, not series. So only three ordered to series and it's looking more likely that Inhumans will be instead of Shield, not in addition to. Shield scored a 0.6 this week. I can't imagine ABC renewing at that level.

I'm actually interested in Deception. Showrunner Chris Fedek created Chuck and Greg Berlanti is the superhero guru at CW. The other one sounds like Terra Nova, the dinosaur show with no dinosaurs. Only this is the country refugee show with no country.

Quote

The description stressed "conspiracy" so it sounds like one of those "full of twists" serialized dramas.  No doubt the refugees will be full of secrets they can't reveal, with secret messages and a Page 23 written by someone in town in the future, not knowing they're responsible for the ensuing chaos in the future blah blah blah blah.

So they're coming to kill baby Hitler -- if baby Hitler was born in 2014. Yep, sounds dumb. 

Edited January 20, 2017 by sharky

[Hookian]

HAHAHAHA both of those sound absolutely horrible and for sure bombs.

[Serena]

I'm actually more interested in the time traveling refugees show than the Berlanti show. The illusionist thing screams of a super special (probably white) man who's an asshole but is soooo good at his job that he can't be fired - barf, I had enough of that.

[Hookian]

With a 0.6 for Shield there is 0 chance they're gonna renew that show, it's done. Which is good news for OUAT. OUAT should definitely be getting a final season.

They averaged a 1.1 in S6A. 

Edited January 20, 2017 by Hookian

[sharky]

My only concern is that's the number Shield got the first week back from their winter hiatus. So will Once loose that kind of audience as well? Or has it stabilized enough? I really wonder how much of a renewal is going to be based on their performance after break, which doesn't really give them any chance to pivot if it's cancelled. 

[orza]

Shield came back from holiday break last week and aired a new episode on Jan 10th that got an 0.82 rating.

[coppersin]

Unless Shield's numbers go even lower, I wonder if they'll get a shortened season 5 so that Inhumans is in the fall and AoS is in the spring to take advantage of Marvel buzz because of Infinity Wars?

With OUaT it's a little trickier to see the network's benefit from another season (full or half) other than buying time until they can come up with enough new shows. How does Once do on social media? Is it in syndication anywhere?

[Serena]

Inhumans is only 8 episodes and starting in September with a 2-episode premiere, right? They could air it all and then start SHIELD after it ends, if they want to.

[Hookian]

10 hours ago, sharky said:

My only concern is that's the number Shield got the first week back from their winter hiatus. So will Once loose that kind of audience as well? Or has it stabilized enough? I really wonder how much of a renewal is going to be based on their performance after break, which doesn't really give them any chance to pivot if it's cancelled. 

Sunday's are different than Tuesdays.