Ratings and Scheduling: Who's the fairest of them all?

[Free]

8 hours ago, KAOS Agent said:

I don't really see how a reboot featuring any one character would work. The goal would be to at the very least maintain ratings, if not grow them, and dropping a bunch of characters to feature one isn't going to keep the current audience. If they went with the Regina Show because she's the favorite of 85% of the audience, that other 15% won't be sticking around, so how do you make up that lost 15%? How do they attract new viewers? And obviously, they'd lose more than that 15% because even a favorite character isn't enough to stick around if you really enjoy a lot of the others as well. I hope A&E are working towards a Last Rites type wrap up and then will do a two hour finale that will work as a finale of the show, but will have an alternate ending if the show will go on.

Reboots rarely work and more often than not it usually makes things worse.

As for losing that audience, they don't seem to care, that's how we ended up with 2 of them this season.

8 hours ago, Camera One said:

Yeah, I don't get the reboot idea either.  Clearly, A&E is running out of stories to tell with all the regulars except the well that springs eternal aka Regina.  They've also run over 2/3 of the Disney canon characters in their cul de sac of destruction.  What could they "springboard" to at this point?  

They've burned through most of the characters early on.

[Curio]

I think OUAT can pull off a "reboot" in a way that still stays true to the original show formula. I think some people immediately think of a reboot as an entire shift in the style of storytelling and drastic cast changes, but I don't think that has to happen in order to create a big rebrand for Season 7. I've mentioned this before, but going back to the Season 1 formula where everyone in the cast has their memories wiped would be a big enough change to consider it a reboot of sorts. I would consider it a reboot if it's the entire cast in cursed Storybrooke again where Snow is Mary Margaret, David is back with Kathryn, Belle is Lacy, Hook is a nerdy boat tour guide, Emma is...I don't even know what she'd be if she was cursed...and Regina is the evil Mayor. Either that, or destroy Storybrooke and make everyone live in the Enchanted Forest. It's a shame the writers completely blew it with the Wish Realm crap because an entire season where the premise focused on what would have happened if Emma grew up as Princess of Misthaven and a season-long goal where everyone slowly remembered their Storybrooke personalities would be a great reboot that sticks to the canon of the show, but is different enough to fit Dungey's needs.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Curio

[Free]

49 minutes ago, Curio said:

I think OUAT can pull off a "reboot" in a way that still stays true to the original show formula. I think some people immediately think of a reboot as an entire shift in the style of storytelling and drastic cast changes, but I don't think that has to happen in order to create a big rebrand for Season 7. I've mentioned this before, but going back to the Season 1 formula where everyone in the cast has their memories wiped would be a big enough change to consider it a reboot of sorts. I would consider it a reboot if it's the entire cast in cursed Storybrooke again where Snow is Mary Margaret, David is back with Kathryn, Belle is Lacy, Hook is a nerdy boat tour guide, Emma is...I don't even know what she'd be if she was cursed...and Regina is the evil Mayor. Either that, or destroy Storybrooke and make everyone live in the Enchanted Forest. It's a shame the writers completely blew it with the Wish Realm crap because an entire season where the premise focused on what would have happened if Emma grew up as Princess of Misthaven and a season-long goal where everyone slowly remembered their Storybrooke personalities would be a great reboot that sticks to the canon of the show, but is different enough to fit Dungey's needs.

The problem is they've claimed that there would be a return to S1 several times before.  So unless there's an actual positive change in the writing/storytelling, it's more of the same especially with yet another alternate universe storyline that they've already used up.

[orza]

I think the Black Fairy story arc will culminate in the final battle Rumple talked about in the pilot. That could serve as a good series finale, if need be. Rumple and some of other characters portrayed by high-priced actors could conveniently die heroically, significantly reducing Dungey's budget for the show. Drastic cost-cutting is typically a requirement for renewal of aging shows with declining viewership. A reboot with the same actors doesn't save money. A possible reboot could be something along the lines of OUAT:TNG with a thirty-something Henry and and the current crop of babies as young adults. They seem to like Giles so adult Gideon could be part of that. It's already canon that time passes differently in the Black Fairy's realm so that could be a way for some of the recurring characters and maybe one or two of the regulars to make the transition. A fresh cast of relatively unknown young actors who cost half as much as the current actors exploring lesser known fairy tales could be their path to more seasons.

Edited January 11, 2017 by orza

[sharky]

But then you're just starting from scratch with the show. Plus it sounds like The Descendants on Freeform. The only thing I keep going back to is Rumple dying in some crazy way that destroys Storybrooke so everyone is back in the EF and how do you get your happy ever after when you've lived in the real world? Gets you a season 7, ties up loose ends, show is over. 

[Hookian]

24 minutes ago, orza said:

I think the Black Fairy story arc will culminate in the final battle Rumple talked about in the pilot. That could serve as a good series finale, if need be. Rumple and some of other characters portrayed by high-priced actors could conveniently die heroically, significantly reducing Dungey's budget for the show. Drastic cost-cutting is typically a requirement for renewal of aging shows with declining viewership. A reboot with the same actors doesn't save money. A possible reboot could be something along the lines of OUAT:TNG with a thirty-something Henry and and the current crop of babies as young adults. They seem to like Giles so adult Gideon could be part of that. It's already canon that time passes differently in the Black Fairy's realm so that could be a way for some of the recurring characters and maybe one or two of the regulars to make the transition. A fresh cast of relatively unknown young actors who cost half as much as the current actors exploring lesser known fairy tales could be their path to more seasons.

You know there's this awesome theory that the finale will end with a new savior coming to town via portal. It's a teen girl, she will have a black leather jacket and Emma's necklace. She'll be the CS daughter of the future and she's returned to save her parents or something.

That would be awesome. A part of me thinks Gideon will become the DO and kill Rumple.

I definitely think we're losing Rumple and by default Belle. Though a part of me thinks they'll give Rumbelle a happy ending and have them leave SB and start over with their son in the land without magic. We'll see.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Hookian

[Souris]

They're not going to continue the show without at least a couple of popular current characters, because that would NOT succeed and they know it. My guess is Regina & Hook -- they're the biggest draws. They'll probably throw in Henry because he's cheap. Everybody else gets dropped.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Souris

[Hookian]

Emma as well. Since she is the main character after all and people won't stick around for just Hook when CS is a massive selling point of the show. It's either they're both in it or the majority of CS fans are out. Simple as that, CS is the main couple of the show now.

They're clearly going to replace Snowing if they haven't already IMO. I think the sure characters staying are Emma, Hook, Regina, Henry, maybe Zelena, and maybe Snowing but I could see them reduced to guest stars or recurring.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Hookian

[RedKeep]

I imagine it's not just a matter of which characters the writers would want to keep, but rather also which actors would even consider sticking around beyond season 6 and either a shortened or a full season 7. If I were Jennifer Morrison or even Ginnifer Goodwin, I'd really think at least twice about signing on to whatever experiment they've got in their heads for any potential episodes beyond 7a. And I don't think splitting up a popular couple is a huge issue for ABC at this point as long as they think they remaining character is enough of a draw. Grey's Anatomy literally started out as the Meredith and Derek story and does just fine without the latter these days. (And yes, various factors play into that, but M/D was still arguably the entire network's most popular/well-known couple for many, many years.)

[maryle]

Honestly, I don't see any reboot that too close to the current incarnation rising the rating.  Their best bet will be something of next generation show.

Anyway, if and it is a big if Jennifer (there just so much projection into what actress want) leave.

As Emma Swan as character doesn't have the treatment that she deserve and end up having a sortie a la Robin H or Will  for me it will be unforgivable. 

[Souris]

7 minutes ago, RedKeep said:

I imagine it's not just a matter of which characters the writers would want to keep, but rather also which actors would even consider sticking around beyond season 6 and either a shortened or a full season 7. If I were Jennifer Morrison or even Ginnifer Goodwin, I'd really think at least twice about signing on to whatever experiment they've got in their heads for any potential episodes beyond 7a. And I don't think splitting up a popular couple is a huge issue for ABC at this point as long as they think they remaining character is enough of a draw. Grey's Anatomy literally started out as the Meredith and Derek story and does just fine without the latter these days. (And yes, various factors play into that, but M/D was still arguably the entire network's most popular/well-known couple for many, many years.)

Exactly. If an actor doesn't have to stay on the show, I think most would choose to leave. Nobody seems particularly invested in the show anymore. Jennifer has referenced multiple times other things she wants to do, so if her contract allows her to exit after this season, I 100% expect her to leave. Lana, Colin, Jared & Bex are the only ones I could see choosing to stay (and I don't think Colin and Bex actually have a choice given their later regular contract status).

I think Grey's told ABC they can kill off half of any couple and continue on with the show.

[Eolivet]

14 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

I can't imagine them losing Emma and keeping Hook because they'd end up with a case of the Downton Abbey Dilemma, in which one half of the show's core romantic couple leaves and the other stays.

I can, because I think it would be less Downton Abbey than Vampire Diaries. I can see them pulling an Elena with Emma -- where she's either trapped in another world or goes off to be the Savior somewhere else. I can't see them killing her, but I can see her leaving (or...forcibly leaving, I don't know). And maybe Snow goes off to find her. So, Hook and Charming's main goal is to find their lost loves and have adventures, bro-ing it up together.

I see Regina and Zelena, raising Henry and Robin, and Hook and Charming, having adventures. Rumple, Emma, Snow and Belle have exited stage right. Cheap cast, check. Contractually obligated cast, check. Season 7...maybe.

[orza]

If all of the regulars have standard Hollywood 7-years contracts it will be ABC deciding who stays and who goes. They can release actors from their contracts if they want to leave or against their will for "creative reasons", or ABC can hold actors to their contractual obligations for another year if that suits their plan. In the end it will be about money and what direction they want to take the show, not whether a couple is popular with online fans.

[TheGreenKnight]

The only reason GA worked is because the main character (Meredith) stayed. Similar to Downton Abbey, Mary was the main character. Emma is the main character here, not Hook. If that happened, the show would have a larger drop in the ratings than they did in 4B. I'd rather the show go out in S6 than get a S7 without Emma.

Edited January 11, 2017 by TheGreenKnight

[Souris]

14 minutes ago, TheGreenKnight said:

The only reason GA worked is because the main character (Meredith) stayed. Similar to Downton Abbey, Mary was the main character. Emma is the main character here, not Hook. If that happened, the show would have a larger drop in the ratings than they did in 4B. I'd rather the show go out in S6 than get a S7 without Emma.

WE see Emma as the main character, but I don't think A&E remotely see Emma as the main character.

As for contracts, Jen has always referred to Once in terms of six seasons, so I suspect her contract gives her an out after S6.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Souris

[Shanna Marie]

The big question is why the network would bother trying to reboot a six-year-old series with constantly dropping ratings. It would have to come down to whether it would be cheaper and more likely successful to rework an existing series that does have an established (if dwindling) fan base than to take a chance on an entirely new series. That's where all kinds of factors come into play: what else the network has poised to launch, how many shows they might be losing this season, where they want to go as a network, as well as intangibles like buzz, merchandising and relationship to other properties.

In OUAT's favor is the merchandising and promotional value for other Disney properties. Not only is there the in-show content linking to other Disney stuff, but it's an excellent very targeted captive audience for advertising for Disney theme parks and movies. Even non-Disney movies capitalize on this targeted audience, such as the special promo for Fantastic Beasts that directly addressed this show. ABC loses that if they lose this show. It may not be the brand ABC wants, but it's the perfect fit for the Disney brand. There's a fair amount of fan engagement and buzz -- how many other shows on ABC have conventions dedicated to them? Also, as shown in that popularity analysis, this is a show that does pretty well in flyover country, which ABC seems to be trying to target.

On the other hand, ABC is also aiming toward procedurals and sitcoms, so this show doesn't quite fit that vision (unless they keep it on just for that "promoting theme parks and fantasy stuff" factor). The ratings have been sliding and even big stunts only temporarily boost ratings, so obviously something about the show just isn't working. It's probably fairly expensive to produce, given the special effects, cast size, and costumes.

I don't think A&E would be able to just present the stuff they personally want to keep if ABC does go for a renewal with a reworked version of the show. The network would probably have a pretty heavy hand in dictating what the show would look like going forward, taking into account past ratings, focus group results, Q scores, and the like. They'd have to come up with a reboot concept that's significantly cheaper to produce, both with cast and with effects and locations. I don't know how the green screen stuff compares to location filming, cost-wise. A reboot could be as minor as most of the main cast returning to the fairy tale world and rebuilding their society while fighting off villains that have sprung up since they left or as major as turning it into practically a spinoff of itself, focusing on one or two of the main cast members with an otherwise new (cheaper) cast. That could go in directions like Storybrooke High, with Henry and Violet dealing with evil alongside teen characters from stories (please, God, no), or the high seas adventures of Hook and Nemo, alongside Ariel and Ursula. As much as they'd love to make The Regina Show, I can't see the network okaying that, given that's what we have now that has the ratings falling to the point where cancellation is an option. If Jennifer Morrison's contract is up at the end of this season, her coming back would depend on what her role might be in the reboot (getting a bigger role in a different kind of story might appeal) and how important to the series the network considers her to be. They might be willing to cut other cast to pay her more to stay. Or they could use it as an opportunity to rework the series in a different direction.

But since we're dealing with the minds of network executives, there's really no telling what they'll do.

[YaddaYadda]

Looking forward to the end of all the speculation.

[Free]

29 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

The big question is why the network would bother trying to reboot a six-year-old series with constantly dropping ratings

Agree, reboots haven't worked, especially of long running series, it's only going to keep declining either way.

[Souris]

I'm pretty sure ABC wouldn't consider a reboot a long-term strategy. I think it would be just a way to eke out a S7 that is slightly profitable as a stop-gap to keep them from having to launch too many shows all at one time next fall. If by some miracle it took off, they'd welcome it, but I don't think they would expect it to.

[tri4335]

@Souris Exactly!  A season 7 for ABC is a stop-gap but they don't want to do that for the same price. Therefore, some cast will be cut as you can't save money with that many regulars. The issue is what saves them the most money while still providing some benefit. The have 8 regulars but I doubt they are all getting paid the same. Ginny, Jen and Bobby are the top three billed which would logically point to them being paid the most but only those who've seen the contracts know for sure.   What is the magic formula to go into that 7th season?  Is it a paired down cast with the same story lines or is it a completely new direction with some pullover from the current cast.  Do any of those regulars have some special language in their contracts to give them the out over ABC.  By clout and when the contracts were signed, only RC and GG would have any options with JMO having a slight chance. The rest of the cast would've been in a standard contract where ABC held the cards. This doesn't even take into account the other areas they could save money like the writing room. Maybe it is some combination of cast let go and a paired down budget for effects, writing staff costumes etc.

I write the above stating that TV is not my business but that just seems like basic ROI to me.

[Hookian]

4 hours ago, Souris said:

WE see Emma as the main character, but I don't think A&E remotely see Emma as the main character.

As for contracts, Jen has always referred to Once in terms of six seasons, so I suspect her contract gives her an out after S6.

No of course not she just gets the most screentime every season for giggles. The only reason she hasn't gotten that this season is cause of the annoying split queen BS.

JMO loves the show, loves the character, loves CS, loves A and E. This is not House. I highly doubt she will leave especially if she is made aware S7 is it.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Hookian

[Free]

4 hours ago, Souris said:

I'm pretty sure ABC wouldn't consider a reboot a long-term strategy. I think it would be just a way to eke out a S7 that is slightly profitable as a stop-gap to keep them from having to launch too many shows all at one time next fall. If by some miracle it took off, they'd welcome it, but I don't think they would expect it to.

The whole point of a reboot is for a long term strategy, like you're trying to fix problems in the long gun.  That usually doesn't work, especially for long running shows though.

[Camera One]

5 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

Looking forward to the end of all the speculation.

Yeah, seriously.  Maybe this is their latest desperate way to drum up buzz.  Why is she even giving interviews on this?  

I'm not convinced that ABC thinks there has been too much Regina or connecting that with the lowered ratings.  After all, they allowed 6A, and even thought bringing Robin back would be a good idea.

[ParadoxLost]

4 hours ago, Souris said:

I'm pretty sure ABC wouldn't consider a reboot a long-term strategy. I think it would be just a way to eke out a S7 that is slightly profitable as a stop-gap to keep them from having to launch too many shows all at one time next fall. If by some miracle it took off, they'd welcome it, but I don't think they would expect it to.

I think they figured out that they can't fix the fall, winter, and spring schedule simultaneously.

When the fall schedule started unravelling they scrambled and used Disney movies to fill the gap on Fridays and Sundays until they could roll out the game shows plus repeats and burn offs until awards season started. They did this so they could save the remaining scripted shows that weren't supposed to go on hiatus this long to fill the unexpected holes in the spring schedule. The whoops maybe cancelling both Galavant and Agent Crater in year one under new leadership wasn't that smart theory.

I think a reboot OUAT might be a continuation of that approach since the movies did decent in the ratings and had promotional tie ins and sponsors.  Just the simple Disney merch promotion for Xmas is probably a nice little bump.  I can see them doing a block of OUAT and a Disney movie through the Winter to safeguard the Spring schedule.

But they need the costs down and the show tighter to make it work.  A reboot could be as simple as trimming the cast to offset the cost of spending more time in a variety of fairytale lands instead of everyone milling around and not doing anything for eight or so episodes each arc in Storybrooke.  Heck there are only a handful of episodes in the last couple of seasons that I think wouldn't annoy the crap out of viewers of a Disney movie.  Most Disney movies being vastly superior in quality to OUAT.  Especially lately.

Then once their fall schedule is steady of the develop something else for winter, OUAT is done.

[Souris]

37 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Yeah, seriously.  Maybe this is their latest desperate way to drum up buzz.  Why is she even giving interviews on this?  

Yesterday was ABC day at the TV Critics Association conference. She was surrounded by TV reporters asking her all sorts of questions.

[Shanna Marie]

It did occur to me that there is precedent for "rebooting" a long-running show late in the game -- and it turned out to be for just one season, although that apparently wasn't the initial plan. That happened with Angel. At the end of season four, they did a hard restart, changing the setting and a lot of the concept. They kept the cast, though, just killing off one of the original cast members and getting rid of one of the new cast members (both of whom made a return guest appearance), and added a new cast member brought over from Buffy, so I don't know that it was entirely a cost-saving move. The new setting I believe was in part because the building they used for exteriors for their main set was being remodeled and wouldn't be available. I think mostly it was a case of their storyline going so far off the rails that the only way to salvage things and get another season was to essentially start over (they did a memory wipe of most of the characters and put them in an entirely new situation). Then during that final season after they did the 100th episode celebration when the network was acting 100 percent behind them, they abruptly cancelled the show.

I don't think they're quite at the so off the rails that there's no way to write their way out of it without rebooting point on this show, as bad as things are. They might be close to a Cordelia problem with Regina, though, depending on how they handle the rest of the Evil Queen stuff and Regina's behavior in the Wishverse.

[ParadoxLost]

Alias rebooted nearly every year in hopes of creating an entry point for new viewers because they felt their critical acclaim and ratings didn't line up.  I was ok with it the first time because Sydney's double agent status became an open secret to the point of ridiculousness.

[Camera One]

3 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

Alias rebooted nearly every year in hopes of creating an entry point for new viewers because they felt their critical acclaim and ratings didn't line up.  I was ok with it the first time because Sydney's double agent status became an open secret to the point of ridiculousness.

I remember that.  Eventually, I got annoyed with it, especially after the show lost its heart by abandoning her "normalcy" and just going full convoluted-spy.  Everytime I hear "Page 23" on "Once", I remember the tiresome "Page 47" from "Alias".

[Hookian]

It sounds like all regulars from S1 need to renew their contracts should they get a S7 according to JMO. Means Ginny, Josh, JMO, Lana, and Bobby.

I think Lana has a S7 on her deal cause she signed a new on in the back half of the first season.

[maryle]

I am happy that Jen clarify her intention to be a part of season 7 if there one. Never doubt it.

I think think the only cast member who seem to wanting out is R. C and the storyline this year could give Rumpled a interesting closure.  

Now, if Emma does get kill it will be at the end of A and E. 

[AshhyOut]

ABC is going to want them all to take pay cuts if they want to stay on and I really don't see why any of them would want to just for another year. I don't konw, how often do you hear about casts taking pay cuts to keep an old show going for a last mercy year?

On Futon Critic, they have a list of all pilots in development for all networks.

http://www.thefutoncritic.com/devwatch.aspx?series=&network=abc&daycode=&statuscode=1&genre=drama&studio=

I can't remember who posted some pages ago that ABC wanted comedies, procedurals and last minute working class stuff? Well looking through that list it does sound like there are an awful lot of procedurals. The comedies are listed separately and it's a long list too with some notable people making them.

It's also interesting that ABC is advertising Reba's/Marc Cherry's new pilot as geared towards Middle America and appealing to Trump voters and that it is a late buy. I mean I didn't think Desperate Housewives fit that category of working class and that's what I think of when I think of Marc Cherry but who knows.

http://deadline.com/2017/01/abc-marc-cherry-southern-drama-pilot-reba-mcentire-stars-1201882258/

I bet the Reba show and that comedy with Felicity Huffman are going to be picked up for sure. Looking at the first few years of Paul Lee's pickups, he did order quite a bit, the highest # being 15 new shows so I don't think the "can't dump too many old shows at once" is that big of a factor. Are they really going to have empty spots to throw to Once and would they really want Once as a lead in to their new series?

[Shanna Marie]

Wow, looking at that list of shows in development, it seems that I'll have a lot more free time next TV season. None of them appeal to me. That's okay, my to-be-read pile is towering, I have books to write, and I need to spend more time playing the harp.

[AshhyOut]

Oh and just for fun, here's what Lee said about Castle and Nashville at the TCAs.

“We’d love for Castle to keep going for years to come,” ABC president Paul Lee said at a TCA panel today. “There are lots of good ideas for that. I don’t want to give a glimpse to what those ideas might be, but I’m feeling optimistic that we’ve got some good ideas.”

“We don’t have any plans to end it (after Season 4),” Lee said. “Nashville has an incredibly passionate audience, so we don’t have plans other than to keep it going.”

And yes I know, Lee got fired but those words sound awfully familiar don't they? Also fans claim Castle died cause contract negotiations with Stana failed and well whose casts' contracts are up for negotiations? That said I do think Stana was more integral to Castle than any one person on Once but you dump a few of the originals and yeah I see a ruckus being raised with the crazy Once fandom. Castle's and Nashville's last year's ratings are certainly on par with Once's this season.

[Hookian]

6 minutes ago, AshhyOut said:

Oh and just for fun, here's what Lee said about Castle and Nashville at the TCAs.

“We’d love for Castle to keep going for years to come,” ABC president Paul Lee said at a TCA panel today. “There are lots of good ideas for that. I don’t want to give a glimpse to what those ideas might be, but I’m feeling optimistic that we’ve got some good ideas.”

“We don’t have any plans to end it (after Season 4),” Lee said. “Nashville has an incredibly passionate audience, so we don’t have plans other than to keep it going.”

And yes I know, Lee got fired but those words sound awfully familiar don't they? Also fans claim Castle died cause contract negotiations with Stana failed and well whose casts' contracts are up for negotiations? That said I do think Stana was more integral to Castle than any one person on Once but you dump a few of the originals and yeah I see a ruckus being raised with the crazy Once fandom. Castle's and Nashville's last year's ratings are certainly on par with Once's this season.

Nashville is on CMT but is still very much of property of ABC. That's why it was in their TCA's.

Now as far as Once goes, as long as they don't dump the main character(Emma) or the popular characters(Hook, Regina) and say that the other regulars will recur then I'm sure it will all work out well in the end.

[KingOfHearts]

It would be pretty hilarious if Lana somehow chose not to renew her contract. A&E would probably refuse to do another season if that were the case.

[Free]

On ‎1‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 10:21 PM, Camera One said:

I'm not sure why Dungey is saying any of this at all.  Half of the stuff she is saying sounds dire, but some of the stuff like:

 

 

This is already what A&E does a lot of the time.  "Frozen" ended in "Shattered Sight" and then we had the "Heroes and Villains" to intro the next arc.  "Last Rites" ended the Hades arc, and then we had "Only You"/"Untold Stories" to intro Hyde and The Evil Queen.  

It pr speak, something Paul Lee used to do before he got the boot.

Shanna: In Downton's case, it was a stronger show at that point, they had a 6 season plan even when the actor left.

[Souris]

FWIW, one blog's take on the contract situation is that it's all a part of negotiations -- ABC is probably prepared to go on without Jen if she doesn't agree to their terms.

[AshhyOut]

You know of course the biggest irony here is that S1 Once is exactly what ABC is now looking for. A procedural that has some real life situations. S1 was basically "cop" Emma and fairy tale of the week, smack dab in rural America. Remember Cinderella's big problem? Being poor, unmarried and pregnant, debating whether to give up her kid? Or Snow and Charming's affair and the fallout of a small town judgment? Small town politics and corruption? The fairy tale flashbacks gave viewers familiarity like chicken soup when you're sick.

And don't tell me A&E don't realize what S1 was. They said it in their own terms that they're going back to S1 roots which was basically "Emma in her yellow bug helping out fairy tale folks." That's what S1 was in a nutshell to them. Yet onscreen nothing remotely like that happened. So it makes me wonder if they were already put on notice and the S6 PR was them toeing the company line but had no real intentions of doing so. It's almost like S1 was produced and created by someone else.

A reboot for this show would be the easiest thing to do. There's already a successful blueprint of it too and that's American Horror Story. They center the show around another popular fairy tale with brand new characters. Yeah they've blown through all the famous one but nothing stops them from disregarding Once's canon for the reboot The ones they can't use to reboot would be Snow White and Beauty and the Beast because that's the show but all the others were minor characters. They can keep the actors taking a pay cut with a new role. Or hell, they can get rid of everyone and keep LP on as the new villain character of each arc. Or they keep LP and make Regina the new Savior, put her in a new rural world and make her solve cases. (If they do any of this, I'm totally claiming credit lol). A show like that could move on to one of the ABC cable channels.

On network, the problem is that they should've done this after the sinking of S2. They could've pulled it off even after S3 and maybe S4. Now it's too late for that I think. A&E with fairy tales is already a brand. And it seems to me like people have long memories and rebooting a "brand" is much much harder than simply rebooting a show. They failed with Wonderland. And I'm not sure how they could work in fairy tale of the week or if they're even capable of it. There's plenty out there but they're not all mainstream and that's what would get you some new viewers.

Edited January 12, 2017 by AshhyOut

[Hookian]

1 hour ago, Souris said:

FWIW, one blog's take on the contract situation is that it's all a part of negotiations -- ABC is probably prepared to go on without Jen if she doesn't agree to their terms.

That blog is ran by FFF one of the most hateful anti-Emma fans in the fandom, a pathological liar and she's a SQ shipper. Nuff said, don't believe anything she said. 

[sharky]

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And don't tell me A&E don't realize what S1 was. They said it in their own terms that they're going back to S1 roots which was basically "Emma in her yellow bug helping out fairy tale folks." That's what S1 was in a nutshell to them. Yet onscreen nothing remotely like that happened. So it makes me wonder if they were already put on notice and the S6 PR was them toeing the company line but had no real intentions of doing so. It's almost like S1 was produced and created by someone else.

But that's exactly what this season could've been -- and it wasn't. Remember the refugees from the Land of Untold Stories? Where are they now? The abrupt departure of all of that makes me think ABC has been messing with this season from the beginning, but the results in ratings haven't been all that great. So did they give notes to A&E who just made things worse? Is ABC going to have a heavier hand in the rest of the season like they did with the Frozen arc? Because not only were the ratings better, but you could tell that Disney/ABC had more control over that. As soon as Ingrid and the Frozen folks left, the rest of the season crumbled for so many reasons.

[YaddaYadda]

Season 4 started crumbling right around 4x08, imo.

[Souris]

21 minutes ago, sharky said:

But that's exactly what this season could've been -- and it wasn't. Remember the refugees from the Land of Untold Stories? Where are they now? The abrupt departure of all of that makes me think ABC has been messing with this season from the beginning, but the results in ratings haven't been all that great. So did they give notes to A&E who just made things worse? Is ABC going to have a heavier hand in the rest of the season like they did with the Frozen arc? Because not only were the ratings better, but you could tell that Disney/ABC had more control over that. As soon as Ingrid and the Frozen folks left, the rest of the season crumbled for so many reasons.

It's a different executive team in place at ABC (I'm assuming there was more shakeup than just Paul Lee), so any meddling ABC may have done this season would've been done by different people than the Frozen meddling. If ABC said to get rid of LoUS for more Regina -- screw them and their possible S7!

[maryle]

At this point every thing is up in the air but!!

Don't believe the blogger  she constantly hate on Jen and Emma.

She have a horrible nickname for Emma character.  

and she said in the past that her inside source told her that the entire cast had renew their contact. Well it doesn't seem so!!

I just watched Sleeping hollow because I did watched the first season and... Their rating is worse than ever after their new kinda reboot.   

[KAOS Agent]

If the shrinking budget is an issue with retaining the cast, there are some other things that could be offered to sweeten the contract. For example. Jen could be offered an opportunity to direct an episode. She's said in the past that she might be interested in that, but her existing contract (and other cast members potentially wanting to try it out too) made it extremely unlikely. I can see them needing to be fair given the existing contracts and not wanting a novice (like Lana or Colin) directing the show, but during renegotiation they could offer it to someone like Jen, who has directing experience and might be looking for more of a challenge than just playing Emma. This wouldn't cost them anything (it might even save a little) and help to retain one of the leads.

Unless they totally reboot for S7 with a whole new cast, I don't think the show will even retain half its current ratings. I'm out if Jen leaves and I suspect a lot of the audience will react the same way. I care about Emma's story enough to stick with the dreck we're getting now, but I'm not sticking around to see them continue to spin their wheels on tired stories for a subsection of the remaining cast. Maybe a new story could bring in new viewers because it's not as daunting to jump into the series, but new viewers won't jump into the show in its current form just with a smaller cast. I just want them to cancel at this point because I'm terrified at them writing a How I Met Your Mother destruction level season finale if they go forward to S7 without their lead. 

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

I just want them to cancel at this point because I'm terrified at them writing a How I Met Your Mother destruction level season finale if they go forward to S7 without their lead. 

I think the series finale will be terrible no matter what season it happens in. I don't trust A&E to close out the show in any satisfying way at all.

[sharky]

2 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

Season 4 started crumbling right around 4x08, imo.

I was talking more about ratings than quality. Here's a good chart -- you can see how the 18-49 rating stayed above 2.0 until the final episode of the half season, and then it just went downhill from there for the most part. Yes, Frozen itself was a big reason but I also think that Disney's control over that property created an extra quality control over the show. Once the Frozen people left, the show crashed.

[Mathius]

9 hours ago, AshhyOut said:

On Futon Critic, they have a list of all pilots in development for all networks.

http://www.thefutoncritic.com/devwatch.aspx?series=&network=abc&daycode=&statuscode=1&genre=drama&studio=

I can't remember who posted some pages ago that ABC wanted comedies, procedurals and last minute working class stuff? Well looking through that list it does sound like there are an awful lot of procedurals. The comedies are listed separately and it's a long list too with some notable people making them.

I still say that if Hyperion's pilot goes through, that's it for Once.  Why keep it when there's a new Disney synergy show to put in its place?

[Hookian]

Just now, Mathius said:

I still say that if Hyperion's pilot goes through, that's it for Once.  Why keep it when there's a new Disney synergy show to put in its place?

Because they can use OUAT to air it's final season in the fall then launch into this show in the Spring.

[Mathius]

6 minutes ago, Hookian said:

Because they can use OUAT to air it's final season in the fall then launch into this show in the Spring.

That is possible, but if that's the case then it will probably be an even shorter final season than initially suspected.

Then again, at this point that might be a benefit.

Edited January 13, 2017 by Mathius

[Free]

2 hours ago, KAOS Agent said:

If the shrinking budget is an issue with retaining the cast, there are some other things that could be offered to sweeten the contract. For example. Jen could be offered an opportunity to direct an episode. She's said in the past that she might be interested in that, but her existing contract (and other cast members potentially wanting to try it out too) made it extremely unlikely. I can see them needing to be fair given the existing contracts and not wanting a novice (like Lana or Colin) directing the show, but during renegotiation they could offer it to someone like Jen, who has directing experience and might be looking for more of a challenge than just playing Emma. This wouldn't cost them anything (it might even save a little) and help to retain one of the leads.

Unless they totally reboot for S7 with a whole new cast, I don't think the show will even retain half its current ratings. I'm out if Jen leaves and I suspect a lot of the audience will react the same way. I care about Emma's story enough to stick with the dreck we're getting now, but I'm not sticking around to see them continue to spin their wheels on tired stories for a subsection of the remaining cast. Maybe a new story could bring in new viewers because it's not as daunting to jump into the series, but new viewers won't jump into the show in its current form just with a smaller cast. I just want them to cancel at this point because I'm terrified at them writing a How I Met Your Mother destruction level season finale if they go forward to S7 without their lead. 

A reboot isn't going to retain much of that, more often than not they don't work, especially when it happens to declining long running series if ABC or the writers think that'll work.