S02.E17: Passion

[Mya Stone]

 

Angel steps up his torment of Buffy and her friends as Jenny searches for a way to restore his soul.

 

I love this episode. Love love love it. 

 

The demise of Jenny. The beginning of the end of Angelus. The pathos, the gripping pain of Giles. ASH hit this out of the park for me. His scene outside of the factory with Buffy breaks my heart to this day. 

A glimpse into Mya's mind...Angel's voiceover book-ending this episode was a go-to away message for me back in the AIM days of yore. In all it's glory: 

 

Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unwanted, unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey. What other choice do we have? Passion is the source of our finest moments; the joy of love, the clarity of hatred, and the ecstasy of grief. It hurts sometimes more than we can bear. If we could live without passion, maybe we'd know some kind of peace. But we would be hollow. Empty rooms, shuttered and dank... without passion, we'd be truly dead.

 

 

Just a gorgeous bit of writing. 

[Jazzy24]

I loved this episode. And Angel's voice over was epic!!!

-Giles and Jenny ~sniff~

-It was so creepy how Angelus was in Buffy's room stroking her while she was sleeping, Angel acting like an abusive, obsessed ex boyfriend was all around scary.

-Jenny :-( I liked her a lot

-Buffy made me sad when she said that when stuff like this usually happens she runs to Angel and Willow saying that him thinking about her hasn't changed made me really sad.

-I want to give Giles a hug

[Spartan Girl]

This episode showed just how creepy Angelus could be.  He was never this creepy in the Angelus arc on Angel, IMO.  Sure he was evil and manipulative, but it was kind of written as a sort of comic relief at times.  But THIS Angelus was creepy.

 

Poor Giles.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Spartan Girl

[wingster55]

My all time favorite episode...from the opening scene with Buffy and Xander dancing with Willow and Cordelia talking (a favorite, somewhat hidden friendship of mine) to Giles finding Jenny to the scene outside the warehouse.

Just pure greatness.  

[Dianthus]

This ep opens with Angelus stalking Buffy at the Bronze, much like Spike did in School Hard.

 

Ignoring the Problem: Giles(!) tells Buffy that she must not let Angelus get to her "no matter how provocative his behavior may become." Of course, he's been ignoring his own Inner Ripper for some time. Sadly, Buffy will employ the 'ignore your problem' strategy many times in the future, most to her detriment. Angelus also ignores Spike's warnings.

We are at our most vulnerable when we feel safest, when we dare to believe ourselves unsinkable. Like the Titanic, we are going down.

 

Dru is giving Spike a puppy named Sunshine and telling him to open up. Yes, Spike, open up to the Effulgence.

Speaking of Spike, Giles isn't the only one working up to a murderous fury toward Angelus.  

[DAngelus]

 

This ep opens with Angelus stalking Buffy at the Bronze, much like Spike did in School Hard.

 

More precisely, it's a callback to the scene of Protective!Angel observing Buffy at the Bronze, from Angel. (Angel is even is the same part of the club in both cases; Spike was much nearer the door.) The School Hard iteration is merely a preliminary riff on what was then an AU hypothetical (what if the vampire watching Buffy wasn't such an Anne Rice-cliche trained pet? He'd be kind of creepy then, wouldn't he?), but it can be ignored now that the direct contrast is being drawn here; the truth driven home, that the true Angel was never Mr. Gentle waiting to give Buffy a hand with The Three, but the murderous demon we see here, the mask now dropped, the hateful glare at the girl who "made me feel like a real human being" cutting through the room like a knife.  

 

And yes, the teaser as a whole is awesome, from the W/C friendship chat to Buffy and Xander dancing (a sign of how far they've grown, just as Willow and Cordy's conversation is;  no more the longing of "I wanna dance with you" in Prophecy Girl or the cruelty of the Bitch of the Year Dance in When She Was Bad, now it's just two friends having fun), to Angel stalking the "couples" as they leave.  And all with the perfect pulsating soundtrack of the Morcheeba song, and not a word of dialogue spoken, just Angel's narration.  Simply perfect.

 

The lateness of the hour and a desire to avoid a massive case of the sads leads me to skip past all the Jenny/Buffy/Giles/Willow bits of the episode, and since Xander is kind of pushed aside here, that leaves the Angel/Joyce scene to discuss.  I really love it, for two great David Boreanaz bits.  

 

The first is purely as David, when Joyce's groceries spill out of the bag and "Angel" (meaning Angelus pretending to be Angel) is trying to be all friendly and help Joyce pick them up, and there's this one orange that David just can't corral and so he simply knocks it right out of frame and plows right ahead with the scene.  Lovely job of staying focused, and oddly doesn't even take me out of the moment, despite the fact that I know it wasn't scripted.  I guess I can imagine Angel being all "fuck this fruit, I'm going to devastate the bitch and then kill her slowly and leave her corpse for Buffy to find; I don't really need to get all the groceries together", so it works just fine despite my knowing it's really David trying to save the take.

 

What comes later is even better, and may be my favorite bit of acting from David, ever. (Although it's tough to beat the "thoughtful" finger in Innocence, I admit.)  When "Angel" is all "Please... Why is she doing this to me?" and expecting to get some sort of emotional response from Joyce, perhaps even some awkward sympathy (come on, you know that Layabout Liam was catnip to the mom crowd back in 18th Century Ireland, and he's still very pretty), and instead Joyce is all "I'm calling the police now" and you can see Angel tighten his jaw just a little, as he's going "Fine, try this on" and then he hits her with "I haven't been able to sleep since the night we made love."  I love how David shows us Angel's thought process here, his desire to twist the screw just a little bit deeper because Joyce isn't responding the way he hoped.  (The fact that he's planning to kill her shortly anyhow and her response should be irrelevant aside;  Mr. Grand Guignol thinks of himself as an Artiste and he can't have the peons refusing to play their parts, you know.) Such fun.  

 

Mind you, Angel's response to watching Buffy and Willow get that phone call in Act 3 still makes me want to drown him in boiling oil and then set it on fire, but that's the part of the ep I'm not going to talk about here, so…I'm just going to focus on enjoying Angel's confusion when he walks right into "Sorry, Angel.  Changed the locks."  Even if Buffy should be a bit less cold and a bit more scared here, given that she apparently was unaware that Angel was just an arm's length away from her mom for over a minute.  (I mean, if Buffy had actually seen Angel menacing Joyce, she would have come racing out of the house rather than kibitzing Willow's spellcasting, I'd assume. So her reaction is a little too composed, if you look at it logically.  But I do like to see Angel squirm, so it's all good, despite that.)

 

Statistics nerd: Giles gets in nine shots with the flaming bat before he takes too much backswing on the overhead and Angel stops him.  And yes, I count them every time.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I'm gonna come right out and say it - every time I watch Passion, and I've seen it umpteen times, I always end up going, "Run, Jenny, run. Run, Jenny, run!" as if that's going to make the ending different. Like @DAngelus, I wanted to light Captain Forehead on fire when he was watching Buffy and Willow get the news of Jenny's murder, and I never liked Buffy as much due to her later thoughtlessness related to it. But this really is the best ep of the season, and the reveal of the "real" Angel, the monster that lies beneath the man. Just excellent.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Cobalt Stargazer

[wingster55]

and there's this one orange that David just can't corral and so he simply knocks it right out of frame and plows right ahead with the scene.

 

I've never even noticed that before. 

[Halting Hex]

Disturbing thought I had the other day:  we know from Release that Angel "likes [his] girls to lie still".  (A tradition he's apparently passed down, given Spike's "having" the shopkeeper in Lovers Walk…or at least that's what Willow thinks he means.)  So do we think Angel took a few minutes from doing his sketch of Jenny's corpse to, well, do Jenny's corpse, as well?

Granted, he doesn't know how much time he has until Giles gets home, and he's got to set the whole scene with the music and the flowers and the candles on the stairs (as one reviewer wrote, "God, he really does have no life, does he?"), but it would be the ultimate "gag gift to leave in [Buffy's] friends' bed", wouldn't it?

I mean, there's nothing in this episode to indicate it, but given what we learn later, I can't see it as impossible.  Just another level of distressing, now that I'm picturing the possibility.  Blech.

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎15‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 9:58 AM, Halting Hex said:

Disturbing thought I had the other day:  we know from Release that Angel "likes [his] girls to lie still".  (A tradition he's apparently passed down, given Spike's "having" the shopkeeper in Lovers Walk…or at least that's what Willow thinks he means.)  So do we think Angel took a few minutes from doing his sketch of Jenny's corpse to, well, do Jenny's corpse, as well?

Granted, he doesn't know how much time he has until Giles gets home, and he's got to set the whole scene with the music and the flowers and the candles on the stairs (as one reviewer wrote, "God, he really does have no life, does he?"), but it would be the ultimate "gag gift to leave in [Buffy's] friends' bed", wouldn't it?

I mean, there's nothing in this episode to indicate it, but given what we learn later, I can't see it as impossible.  Just another level of distressing, now that I'm picturing the possibility.  Blech.

This is the kinkiest show in history but I think even it would baulk from necrophilia (okay I know vamps are technically dead but still). 

 

Passion

The Good; Angelus's lyrical narration. Buffy and Joyce having 'The Talk' (you imagine one day Buffy will do the same with Dawn?). Jenny and Angelus' confrontation at the school. Buffy saving Giles at the factory. The twist in the tail.

The Bad; It seems rather stupid that Buffy simply warns Joyce to keep away from Angelus, because that's going to keep her safe? In the past we're told that Angelus drove Dru mad by killing everyone she loved and nailing puppies to stuff. Here he just tells Joyce that he and Buffy had sex, doesn't even do it nastily. Although Will's fish aren't nice.

Best line; Any and all of Angelus' narration. Plus Spike stopping Dru from helping Angelus "Not fair if he doesn't tag you"

Character death-1 (Jenny the 3rd recurring character to die)

Bondage-0

Knocked out-yep, Giles again

Shot-0

Women good/men bad-0

Kinky-dinky; Angelus/Spike/Dru

Questions and observations; Wonderful scene where Jonathon and friend actually come into the library to borrow some books (reminiscent of the opening scene in Friends where they turn up at Central Perk only to find the couch taken for once). Surely Angelus doesn't need an invitation to enter a public area like a school? Or has Jenny done a spell to keep him out and the school motto meant it didn't work. Equally does the invitation rule apply to cars? Presumably Angel has also been to Giles' house in order to put Jenny's body in Giles' bed. We must assume Giles and Jenny have had sex before if she has a key to his place and he's not surprised to find her in his bedroom. Once again, roses don't seem to repel vamps in the Buffyverse. Does Joyce not question why the 40+ school librarian keeps popping around the house to see her teenage daughter? Willow collapsing into Joyce's arms is a sign of how close Joyce has become to the rest of the Scoobs.

Jenny is the 3rd recurring character to die, making it one every 10 eps or so, the shock and brutality of him killing her is awful. Giles knocked out again. Willow's dad is called Ira and he seems quite strictly Jewish. Willow says she's his only daughter, what about sons? I was always surprised fanficcers didn't make more of Buffy and Willow's sleepover after Willow finds her fish? If you can restore Angel's soul why not do that to all vamps? Although Buffy the Vampire Resouler is probably not such a good series.

10/10, running out of superlatives here

[Halting Hex]

6 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

This is the kinkiest show in history but I think even it would baulk from necrophilia

Well, as I wrote, the references to necrophilia don't come until later seasons (Lovers Walk, Release), but they are there, if somewhat shaded to avoid being too jarring.  Just as when Coach Marin's final fate in Go Fish is simply referred to as "wow, those boys sure love their coach" rather than "death by fish-man gang-rape? That's gotta leave a mark.  Or, several marks".  I mean, the WB did want to avoid making things too explicit, but that doesn't mean the show was above hintage.

Heck, the cut in Faith, Hope, and Trick that I mentioned in the media thread doesn't get more explicit than "that thing with your mouth that boys like" for probably the same sort of reason.  But Buffy's shocked face clearly doesn't indicate that "half-smile" was her first thought there, either.

6 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Surely Angelus doesn't need an invitation to enter a public area like a school? Or has Jenny done a spell to keep him out and the school motto meant it didn't work.

The vampires have been there before (Prophecy Girl) and they'll be back again (Becoming, Part 1).  They didn't need a specific invitation, any more than Angel did before his first visit (Out of Mind, Out of Sight), so there's nothing to rescind.  Jenny should have packed up and gone home to finish her work, but she got caught up in the moment, unfortunately.  So I think Angel's just taunting her about the motto.

6 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Presumably Angel has also been to Giles' house in order to put Jenny's body in Giles' bed.

We'd only ever seen Giles's flat once in the series to this point (The Dark Age), so it's not surprising that we'd missed a previous visit by Angel.  (Perhaps right after that episode.  After all, Angel does save Giles's life by letting his own demon battle Eyghon, which has to be a rather horrifying moment for him, given how hard he works to keep the demon under control, normally.  Maybe this accounts for Buffy and Giles both treating Angel like a fluffy puppy with bad teeth in the ensuing What's My Line? two-parter, even though Giles's blithe dismissal of Kendra's concerns ["No, no, [Angel's] good now"] still infuriates me, knowing her fate.  But Rupert did just witness Angel risking his unlife to save Jenny, so I guess that earned Angel a few points…sigh.)

6 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Once again, roses don't seem to repel vamps in the Buffyverse.

Is that a thing?  I never knew.

6 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Does Joyce not question why the 40+ school librarian keeps popping around the house to see her teenage daughter?

Maybe Joyce is looking to get a little Book Man action out of the deal?  She was just chatting him up in Bad Eggs, and she practically leaps over Jenny's corpse to "comfort" him in Killed by Death, after all.  Things get lonely when you're a single mom, as I think she says in Fear, Itself…

6 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Willow collapsing into Joyce's arms is a sign of how close Joyce has become to the rest of the Scoobs.

The interesting thing is that they actually scripted dialogue for that entire scene (it's just unheard by design) and what Joyce is saying there is "Willow! My god, Buffy, what's wrong? Has something happened?"  So, she's aware of the dynamic between the girls, that Buffy naturally looks to protect Willow, and so when Joyce finds Willow in tears, it's to Buffy that she turns for answers.  Very B/W 'shippy, IMO.  

Of course, not as much as…

6 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

I was always surprised fanficcers didn't make more of Buffy and Willow's sleepover

There's a smallish B/W fic community, but fanficcers in general were always depressingly slack on that front.  I mean, even the producers made sure to shove Anya the Human Bookmark into bed between them in Goodbye, Iowa, once Willow started her overt interest in girls…you'd think the fandom would make something of the opportunities for f/f action earlier on.  Oh, well.

And yes, five teenage characters and not a sibling between them; very strange.  The Chinese would be proud, from a birth-control perspective.  At least Oz and Xander have cousins;  all Buffy has is a couple of unseen aunts.  Maybe that's why the Monks made Dawn, so Buffy wouldn't be the end of the Summers line? Eh, learn to let it go, guys. 

[Joe Hellandback]

4 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Well, as I wrote, the references to necrophilia don't come until later seasons (Lovers Walk, Release), but they are there, if somewhat shaded to avoid being too jarring.  Just as when Coach Marin's final fate in Go Fish is simply referred to as "wow, those boys sure love their coach" rather than "death by fish-man gang-rape? That's gotta leave a mark.  Or, several marks".  I mean, the WB did want to avoid making things too explicit, but that doesn't mean the show was above hintage.

Heck, the cut in Faith, Hope, and Trick that I mentioned in the media thread doesn't get more explicit than "that thing with your mouth that boys like" for probably the same sort of reason.  But Buffy's shocked face clearly doesn't indicate that "half-smile" was her first thought there, either.

The vampires have been there before (Prophecy Girl) and they'll be back again (Becoming, Part 1).  They didn't need a specific invitation, any more than Angel did before his first visit (Out of Mind, Out of Sight), so there's nothing to rescind.  Jenny should have packed up and gone home to finish her work, but she got caught up in the moment, unfortunately.  So I think Angel's just taunting her about the motto.

We'd only ever seen Giles's flat once in the series to this point (The Dark Age), so it's not surprising that we'd missed a previous visit by Angel.  (Perhaps right after that episode.  After all, Angel does save Giles's life by letting his own demon battle Eyghon, which has to be a rather horrifying moment for him, given how hard he works to keep the demon under control, normally.  Maybe this accounts for Buffy and Giles both treating Angel like a fluffy puppy with bad teeth in the ensuing What's My Line? two-parter, even though Giles's blithe dismissal of Kendra's concerns ["No, no, [Angel's] good now"] still infuriates me, knowing her fate.  But Rupert did just witness Angel risking his unlife to save Jenny, so I guess that earned Angel a few points…sigh.)

Is that a thing?  I never knew.

Maybe Joyce is looking to get a little Book Man action out of the deal?  She was just chatting him up in Bad Eggs, and she practically leaps over Jenny's corpse to "comfort" him in Killed by Death, after all.  Things get lonely when you're a single mom, as I think she says in Fear, Itself…

The interesting thing is that they actually scripted dialogue for that entire scene (it's just unheard by design) and what Joyce is saying there is "Willow! My god, Buffy, what's wrong? Has something happened?"  So, she's aware of the dynamic between the girls, that Buffy naturally looks to protect Willow, and so when Joyce finds Willow in tears, it's to Buffy that she turns for answers.  Very B/W 'shippy, IMO.  

Of course, not as much as…

There's a smallish B/W fic community, but fanficcers in general were always depressingly slack on that front.  I mean, even the producers made sure to shove Anya the Human Bookmark into bed between them in Goodbye, Iowa, once Willow started her overt interest in girls…you'd think the fandom would make something of the opportunities for f/f action earlier on.  Oh, well.

And yes, five teenage characters and not a sibling between them; very strange.  The Chinese would be proud, from a birth-control perspective.  At least Oz and Xander have cousins;  all Buffy has is a couple of unseen aunts.  Maybe that's why the Monks made Dawn, so Buffy wouldn't be the end of the Summers line? Eh, learn to let it go, guys. 

Yeah, Buffy/Angel is a kinky show but a lot of it is largely implied, Spike and Buffy getting to fifth base on the balcony of the Bronze probably the best example. 

Yeah, it's even mentioned in Dracula, one of the reasons we plant roses in graveyards, to ward off evil spirits. 

 Interesting, I never actually saw Goyce before Band Candy. I think folks were more into Willow/Cordy for which there is some evidence on the show. Also amazed they didn't make more of the Buffy/Will/Anya sandwich in Xander's basement. 

 Well we're told Joyce goes to Illinois to spend Thanksgiving with Arlene and her 'family' so Buffy/Dawn must have at least one more cousin?  

[Joe Hellandback]

On 7/14/2014 at 5:40 PM, Mya Stone said:

 

I love this episode. Love love love it. 

 

The demise of Jenny. The beginning of the end of Angelus. The pathos, the gripping pain of Giles. ASH hit this out of the park for me. His scene outside of the factory with Buffy breaks my heart to this day. 

A glimpse into Mya's mind...Angel's voiceover book-ending this episode was a go-to away message for me back in the AIM days of yore. In all it's glory: 

 

 

Just a gorgeous bit of writing. 

I always think of the scene in 

Spoiler

Forever when Buffy and Dawn finally fall into one another's arms. 

That was truly the ecstasy of grief

 

On 7/15/2014 at 1:54 AM, Jazzy24 said:

-It was so creepy how Angelus was in Buffy's room stroking her while she was sleeping, Angel acting like an abusive, obsessed ex boyfriend was all around scary.

-I want to give Giles a hug

Amazing how many girls on The Bronze, really liked that scene "Oh he's evil but he still cares for her..." etc etc You realise why women date men in prison. 

Yes, we all do. 

On 7/15/2014 at 9:06 AM, Spartan Girl said:

This episode showed just how creepy Angelus could be.  He was never this creepy in the Angelus arc on Angel, IMO.  Sure he was evil and manipulative, but it was kind of written as a sort of comic relief at times.  But THIS Angelus was creepy.

 

Poor Giles.

 

Because I think he was never as close to the people then as with Buffy? And this version of Angelus is still fallible, he can still be funny at times

 

On 7/15/2014 at 10:45 PM, wingster55 said:

My all time favorite episode...from the opening scene with Buffy and Xander dancing with Willow and Cordelia talking (a favorite, somewhat hidden friendship of mine) to Giles finding Jenny to the scene outside the warehouse.

Just pure greatness.  

Yeah, it's nice to see that life goes on for Buffy, she has things in her life other than her duties and lost love. I remember my jaw dropped at the scene when the kids pass a couple making out outside the Bronze and then she drops and you realise it's Angelus with a victim (Buffy's vamp sense must have been on the fritz that night?).

On 7/25/2014 at 12:31 AM, Dianthus said:

Dru is giving Spike a puppy named Sunshine and telling him to open up. Yes, Spike, open up to the Effulgence.

 

 Well it makes a change from kittens!

Spoiler

Dru babying Spike will take on a much greater significance when we see LMPTM in s7. 

On 7/25/2014 at 6:49 AM, DAngelus said:

Statistics nerd: Giles gets in nine shots with the flaming bat before he takes too much backswing on the overhead and Angel stops him.  And yes, I count them every time.

Boy, I thought I was hardcore with my stats!

On 7/25/2014 at 11:25 PM, Cobalt Stargazer said:

I'm gonna come right out and say it - every time I watch Passion, and I've seen it umpteen times, I always end up going, "Run, Jenny, run. Run, Jenny, run!" as if that's going to make the ending different. Like @DAngelus, I wanted to light Captain Forehead on fire when he was watching Buffy and Willow get the news of Jenny's murder, and I never liked Buffy as much due to her later thoughtlessness related to it. But this really is the best ep of the season, and the reveal of the "real" Angel, the monster that lies beneath the man. Just excellent.

 

For me Innocence just beats it but both 10/10

[secnarf]

3 hours ago, nosleepforme said:

Would this episode have been as effective if they had killed Oz instead of Jenny, an idea that they were originally toying with? Though for me it seems weird that they were plans to kill Oz, since he had only been introduced at the time. 

 

I think what made this episode work so beautifully is also that it is really built around Giles, giving Anthony Head the opportunity to play something other than just giving the exposition of the monster of the week.

I think that would have put a huge riff in Willow/Buffy's friendship. Would Willow have been so willing to try to restore Angel's soul, or so

understanding of Buffy in season 3 after Angel returns

?

I'm glad they killed off Jenny instead.

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎24‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 2:59 PM, secnarf said:

I think that would have put a huge riff in Willow/Buffy's friendship. Would Willow have been so willing to try to restore Angel's soul, or so

  Hide contents

understanding of Buffy in season 3 after Angel returns

?

I'm glad they killed off Jenny instead.

Agreed, loved Jenny but loved Woz more although

Spoiler

If Jenny had lived we wouldn't have needed Willow to re-ensoul Angel, Jenny could have done it. Interesting to think of Willow and Faith in season 3 going to attack Angel rather than Xander and Faith. 

[Fool to cry]

This is episode was the first time I found out what a "Molotov Cocktail" was.

[Joe Hellandback]

21 hours ago, Fool to cry said:

This is episode was the first time I found out what a "Molotov Cocktail" was.

Do you know where the name comes from?

[Fool to cry]

4 minutes ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Do you know where the name comes from?

Yeah I Googled it.

[lembergwatcher]

One of my favorite episodes.

Still it's kinda very strange (and even careless) that Jenny couldn't find a better place to translate the whole ritual thing than the classroom in place accessible for the likes of Angelus. I mean she wasn't a newbie, she knew about the danger, she knew what Angelus was capable of and - logically - had to be on alert. She could research safe at home, not in public place alone. Either she believed she could deal with Fangboy or she could run (though her clothing on that particular evening wasn't suitable for such a race). One of the most tragic moments in the whole show. It was Jenny Calendar, who deserved the second chance, not Angel(us).

[Dee]

I will always loathe that the show has Angel murder Jenny in vamp-face.

[Joe Hellandback]

6 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

One of my favorite episodes.

Still it's kinda very strange (and even careless) that Jenny couldn't find a better place to translate the whole ritual thing than the classroom in place accessible for the likes of Angelus. I mean she wasn't a newbie, she knew about the danger, she knew what Angelus was capable of and - logically - had to be on alert. She could research safe at home, not in public place alone. Either she believed she could deal with Fangboy or she could run (though her clothing on that particular evening wasn't suitable for such a race). One of the most tragic moments in the whole show. It was Jenny Calendar, who deserved the second chance, not Angel(us).

Maybe she was just doing it whilst working late? On the other hand she seemed genuinely shocked Angelus was able to enter, perhaps she did a spell to keep him out but it wasn't effective due to the motto over the door which she didn't take into account? And really was there anywhere else to take Jenny? I can't see her having her own successful spinoff?

[Halting Hex]

I think Jenny started in the daylight and didn't realize that it was getting dark.  A terminal case of tunnel vision, as she was staring at her computer, unfortunately.

11 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

And really was there anywhere else to take Jenny?

I take it you've never read Jenny/Wesley fanfic?  More seriously, I think having two adults in the group doesn't have to prove redundant.  As long as the writing is good, Jenny can be used effectively, IMO.

[lembergwatcher]

Btw, I was somehow surprised after learning that this episode was written by the same guy who did the very Season 01-ish "Some Assembly Required"...

[Halting Hex]

David Tyron King (aka "Ty") was the showrunner on the original TV version of Parenthood where he mentored young Joss, who was on the staff.  So Joss called reached out to his old mentor as a favor to do a key episode, just as he'd asked Ty to fill the gap between the season premiere and the key episode that introduced the subvillains.  And SAR, simple as it is, states the theme of the season ("loves make you do the wacky") and gooses the key 'ships (Buffy/Angel, Giles/Jenny, and early hints of Willow/Xander/Cordelia triangle).

I also like that you can tell it's the same writer because he remembered a detail from his earlier script (Cordy trapping Angel into riding in her car because she's "scared") and used it as a plot point for this one, with CC needing to use the disinvite spell on the car.  (And earlier, swapping with her grandmother.  Gee, thanks, Cordelia.  Way to toss Granny into the line of fire.)

Sad to think the man who wrote the wonderful 1st date for Giles and Jenny also wrote Angel snapping her neck.  From "wow, I guess we never really realized how much you like that chair" to "sorry, Jenny, this is where you get off" in just 15 episodes.  Sigh.

[lembergwatcher]

Quote

Xander: (hops up from his chair) Hello!
They all look behind them and see Jonathon and a girl come into the library.
Xander: Excuse me, but have you ever heard of knocking?
Jonathon: (gestures to the library before him) We're supposed to get some books. On Stalin. (nods)
Xander: (points at Jonathon) Does this look like a Barnes & Noble?
Giles: This is a school library, Xander.
Xander: Since when?
Giles: (to Jonathon) Uh, y-yes, yes, uh, third row. (gestures to the stacks) Historical biographies.
Jonathon: Thanks.

Quite funny moment.

 

Purely unintentional hint of Jonathan having (albeit briefly) his own cult of personality in S.04., when everyone worships him and even the Scoobies themselves are dependent on the short guy

Edited August 22, 2018 by lembergwatcher

[illdoc]

6 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Quite funny moment.

Forgot the bast part...after Jonathon says thanks, he & the girl go into the stacks and the Scoobies leave the library!

[lembergwatcher]

Quote

Joyce: Was he the first? (opens her eyes) No, wait. (stands up) I don't wanna know. (paces) I don't think I want to.
Buffy: Yeah. He was the first. I mean, the only.
Joyce: (stops and looks at her daughter) He's older than you.
Buffy: I know.
Joyce: Too old,
Buffy. And he's obviously not very stable. I really wish... (sits again) I just thought you would show more judgment.
Buffy: (looks at her mother) He wasn't like this before.
Joyce: Are you in love with him?
Buffy: I was.
Joyce: Were you careful?
Buffy: (looks away) Mom, this is no time...
Joyce: (gets up again) Don't 'Mom' me, Buffy. You don't get to get out of this. You had sex with a boy you *didn't* even see fit to tell me you were dating.
Buffy: (nods) I made a mistake.
Joyce: Yeah, well, don't just say that to shut me up, because I think you really did.

I wonder, did Joycie reveal to her own mother all the details regarding boyfriends and who was the first when she was Buffy's age? Btw, it would be quite interesting to learn at least a few things about Buffy's grandparents. Were they ever mentioned through the course of the series?..

[Halting Hex]

Well, not on air, but this episode does mention Buffy's grandmom in the script.

Quote

JOYCE: Well, I guess that was the talk.

BUFFY: How did it go?

JOYCE: I don't know, it's my first.

BUFFY: Well, what did you tell Grandma when you…

JOYCE: Nothing! (thinks) I don't think she knows…

A bit too cutesy, obviously.  As Buffy's existence rather gives away Joyce's deflowering and all that.

Edited October 13, 2018 by Halting Hex

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎13‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 1:42 AM, lembergwatcher said:

I wonder, did Joycie reveal to her own mother all the details regarding boyfriends and who was the first when she was Buffy's age? Btw, it would be quite interesting to learn at least a few things about Buffy's grandparents. Were they ever mentioned through the course of the series?..

Young Joyce would be a great comic! Especially if all the supernatural stuff was happening just out of frame so she was never aware of it, perhaps showing how women are picked to be the Slayer's mother (was Joyce a potential who was never called?). I assumed Buffy/Dawn's grandparents were dead, I'd love to see a bit more of the extended family, Aunt Arlene etc  

[lembergwatcher]

Quote

I swear, men can be such jerks sometimes. Dead or alive.

I take it you mean Oz, when you talk about living jerks, Willow. Who else can it be, after all?

And her belief the librarians should be celibate is just adorable. Wasn't Giles supposed to tell Willow about his orgies back in the Ripper-ish days after she came up with the plan to save him and Jenny from Eyghon's wrath?

Edited December 29, 2018 by lembergwatcher

[Halting Hex]

9 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

I take it you mean Oz, when you talk about living jerks, Willow. Who else can it be, after all?

I don't know…last we saw, Willow was sobbing her heart out to Oz over Mr "1-800-I'm-Dating-A-Skanky-Ho".  And even after the spell was broken, there was much talk about the need for extended groveling.   Things appear better here, but Willow doesn't interact with Xander at all until the top of Act 2 (she chats with Cordelia and walks with Buffy in the teaser, but nothing with Xander), so there might still be bumps in that road.

Alternatively, with Oz apparently out of town, maybe Will's worried he's no longer "groupie-free"?  Tough to say.

[Halting Hex]

Jenny Trout has gained a certain level of internet fame as an essayist, and she has strong opinions about the series.  She pushes that "Xander is a so-called 'Nice Guy'" line that I'm hardly fond of, but on the other hand she really hates Joyce and thinks her to be "a fucking terrible parent", which earns a goodly amount of points with me.  I won't link to her work (out of respect for Joe's feelings), but her domain is jennytrout.com, so it's hardly the most difficult Google you'll ever have to do.

But still, this episode (even more than Ted) brings out a goodly amount of anti-Joyce venom from Ms. Trout, so I figure it's worth an extended quote, at least.  (Gotta share the "love", right?)

Quote

Joyce berates Buffy for making the mistake of having teenage sex, and accuses Buffy of shutting her out. Except, you know, Joyce, for your daughter to be able to share anything with you at all, you have to fucking be around. Like, enough to know that your daughter has an inappropriately close friendship with a grown man who works at her school. Enough to know that she is out literally all night every night. Enough for her to trust that you’re not going to flip out and blame her when her boyfriend turns out to be an abusive psychopath. And while Joyce tells Buffy she loves her, that doesn’t erase any of that hurtful shit. Her daughter is in an abusive relationship and she blames her for it, despite signs being there since the last episode.

The bold part is a reference to the box of black roses with "Soon" on the card, that Joyce saw Buffy get in BB&B.  Is this fair?  Should Joyce have been able to see that "black roses=death" and "soon" was a direct threat?  Is she a bad parent because she let shame about her sudden Xander-lust trump what should have been her concern about Buffy's creepy swain?  I'm ambivalent, myself.

Thoughts?

On a (somewhat) lighter note:

Quote

GILES: In my years as Watcher… I’ve buried too many people. But Jenny was the first I’ve loved.

Rupert, what?  You're just going to dismiss poor Randall like that?  Did all those demonically-possessed 5-guys-1-Dierdre orgies mean nothing to you??  What a (5/6ths of a) homophobe!  Sheesh…

(To be fair, Giles does specify that he was speaking about his years as a Watcher, and the Oxford Demon-Summoning and [Mostly] Gay Orgy Society days were before that.  But that seems a thin hair to split, IMO.)

Edited April 20, 2019 by Halting Hex

[lembergwatcher]

1 hour ago, Halting Hex said:

but on the other hand she really hates Joyce and thinks her to be "a fucking terrible parent", which earns a goodly amount of points with me.

Joyce is hardly a "Parent of the Year" contest winner, but she isn't a "terrible parent" either. She's a single mother who has to work for a living in order to provide for her family and pay the bills. We don't know much about Joyce, her upbringing and her life in Sunnydale, i.e. job and other activities, to use such kind of labels IMO. Parenting is not something you can learn from the books, after all. Therefore I think Ms. Trout is a little bit too harsh here.

OTOH Joyce is shown to be too oblivious about Sunnydale (one might think she should have started asking questions after School Hard), but there's quite simple explanation for that I guess: 

Spoiler

Joss wanted to save the "disclosure of information" about Buffy's nighttime activity for season's finale.

1 hour ago, Halting Hex said:

Did all those demonically-possessed 5-guys-1-Dierdre orgies mean nothing to you??  What a (5/6ths of a) homophobe!

The difference between love and lust is very clear, I must say. One doesn't have to be in love or have any feelings for the other participants of those orgies. Besides, there is no clear cut statement about Dierdre being the only girl in Giles life back then and the only girl present at the Oxford Demon-Summoning Orgy Society's meetings. She was the sole woman in the small occult inner circle, but Rupert and Ethan could have brought more girls for post-spell casting parties. And don't forget about the brothels.

What I find really amusing is Willow's strange belief librarians should be celibate from the cradle to the grave.

Quote

Willow: Oh, yeah. It went fine. Well, it went fine until Angel showed up and told Buffy's mom that he and Buffy had... (nervously) Well, you know, that they had... you know. You do know, right?

Giles: Oh, yes. Yes. Sorry.

Willow: (relieved) Oh, good, 'cause I just realized that being a librarian and all, you maybe didn't know.

Giles: Oh, thank you. I got it.

That just reminds me of Xander's line from Some Assembly Required (ironically, both SAR and Passion were written by the same person):

Quote

[Jenny] already knows that you're a school librarian, so you don't have to worry about how to break that embarrassing news to her.

So I guess Buffy never told Willow about the Ripper and his younger days of black magic and sex orgies. Good for her.

[Halting Hex]

6 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Willow's strange belief librarians should be celibate from the cradle to the grave.

Nothing as cheaply physical as sex should come between the agape-pure love that exists between Man and Dewey Decimal System, Willow thinks.  I can see where she's coming from.

6 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

(ironically, both SAR and Passion were written by the same person)

Perhaps David Tyron "Ty" King assayed a career in Library Science before turning to screenwriting and found himself scorned by the common hussies because of it?  Or perhaps he pined from afar after a specific Library Lad/Lass and was hurt that his hopes of sneaking off to "steam up the stacks" fell victim to his inamorata's devotion to the duty station?  We may never know…we may never truly know.  Sigh. 😉

[Halting Hex]

I've referred to Liam Duke's gobsmacked reaction to the neck-snap (where he'd seemed blasé before, just assuming that Jenny would be saved [as opposed to Shan, who was terrified the whole time]), why don't I post those screencaps?  I've been meaning to clean up my desktop, anyhow.  But, it seems, I can only get 980KB at a time, and each one is almost that large.  So I'll start with the most important one, and maybe it will be just that, I don't know.

[Halting Hex]

Looking at reaction vids again (I've been meaning to archive them, so I downloaded both Liam and Shan) and I notice how wonderful Jenny's hair is in that final, beautiful scene with her and Buffy.  Quite a contrast between the piled-on-top-with-dangling-tendrils mess she had the day before.  Maybe getting the Orb of Thessulah de-stressed her tress distress? Yes?

That's hardly the first time we've seen Jenny's pile-up look, though. Indeed, we see it in the first classroom scene in IR,YJ.  I've admired that look there, saying it spoke to her having a wilder life away from school, although I wrote that I didn't know if Jenny was "fighting through a hangover or if that's JBF hair".  Given that Jenny clearly hasn't been getting any effing F-ing since Innocence, I guess the return of the stress look here puts me on the "hangover" side of the argument.  Jenny probably has a fondness for Irish coffee, which all things considered, is pretty ironic.

Speaking of…I noticed this time that, where the sketches of sleeping Buffy and Joyce were threats, the sketch of Dead!Jenny is pretty much just Angel signing his work, since it was left upstairs (wouldn't want to give the show away too soon, after all) and by the time Giles sees it, he already knows Jenny is dead, since her corpse is literally right there.  Presumably Angel didn't want Giles to think Jenny had been killed by a random burglar or any other (unlikely) possibility; he really wanted "Rupert" to know it was his work, alone.

"Hey, Buddy!  Did you see what I did there?  She does look peaceful, doesn't she?  I thought I'd leave you a little keepsake, so you can still remember the moment even after they take the body away.  No need to thank me, it was my pleasure. Love, Angel."  [/hypothetical unseen note accompanying sketch]

Bastard.  🤬

Edited March 22, 2020 by Halting Hex

[lembergwatcher]

10 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Bastard.  🤬

Whenever I rewatch Jenny/Angel scene I imagine pouring holy water on Forehead for hours. OTOH it seems slightly OOC for Angel the Scourge of Europe to kill Jenny that fast. Shouldn't he take her to his lair and do it slow and more painful?

[Joe Hellandback]

On 1/4/2020 at 2:59 AM, Halting Hex said:

I've referred to Liam Duke's gobsmacked reaction to the neck-snap (where he'd seemed blasé before, just assuming that Jenny would be saved [as opposed to Shan, who was terrified the whole time]), why don't I post those screencaps?  I've been meaning to clean up my desktop, anyhow.  But, it seems, I can only get 980KB at a time, and each one is almost that large.  So I'll start with the most important one, and maybe it will be just that, I don't know.

You should check out Geeked Out nation who has just watched Hero and still can't believe its' events. Torchwood Boy and After Show Reacts watching the same ep are terrific. 

I love reactors, having them view eps virgin and then everyone coming on to talk about it reminds me of the glory days of The Bronze. 

[Joe Hellandback]

On 3/22/2020 at 1:11 AM, Halting Hex said:

Looking at reaction vids again (I've been meaning to archive them, so I downloaded both Liam and Shan) and I notice how wonderful Jenny's hair is in that final, beautiful scene with her and Buffy.  Quite a contrast between the piled-on-top-with-dangling-tendrils mess she had the day before.  Maybe getting the Orb of Thessulah de-stressed her tress distress? Yes?

That's hardly the first time we've seen Jenny's pile-up look, though. Indeed, we see it in the first classroom scene in IR,YJ.  I've admired that look there, saying it spoke to her having a wilder life away from school, although I wrote that I didn't know if Jenny was "fighting through a hangover or if that's JBF hair".  Given that Jenny clearly hasn't been getting any effing F-ing since Innocence, I guess the return of the stress look here puts me on the "hangover" side of the argument.  Jenny probably has a fondness for Irish coffee, which all things considered, is pretty ironic.

Speaking of…I noticed this time that, where the sketches of sleeping Buffy and Joyce were threats, the sketch of Dead!Jenny is pretty much just Angel signing his work, since it was left upstairs (wouldn't want to give the show away too soon, after all) and by the time Giles sees it, he already knows Jenny is dead, since her corpse is literally right there.  Presumably Angel didn't want Giles to think Jenny had been killed by a random burglar or any other (unlikely) possibility; he really wanted "Rupert" to know it was his work, alone.

"Hey, Buddy!  Did you see what I did there?  She does look peaceful, doesn't she?  I thought I'd leave you a little keepsake, so you can still remember the moment even after they take the body away.  No need to thank me, it was my pleasure. Love, Angel."  [/hypothetical unseen note accompanying sketch]

Bastard.  🤬

Do you watch Liam Catterson? He's just doing Hush. Can't wait until he gets to the beginning of season 5, that's always the most fun, flickering the gaslight. 

[Halting Hex]

I fell hugely behind with everyone.  Maybe I'll catch up now, but it still seems a lot of work.

I think my niche is fighting against the Spuffy tide during S1 and assuring newbies that this season is pretty good on its own, not some chore to be endured until "it gets better".  To be fair, the Spike-fen do a decent job of not leaking why they can't wait for S2, but still. 

I see that Mark Ward did this episode not too long ago;  I should really catch up on him, given that he not only despised Angel the character, but also Angel the episode.  I do wonder what he'd make of Angelus.  But I lost touch with him after Halloween and I'm too OCD to simply skip ahead.  Gah!

[Joe Hellandback]

Unfortunately as he does group reactions he's pretty much on hiatus at the moment, can't hang with the other 'Gay eye for the Sunnydale Guy' boys, I prefer group reactions, always more fun. 

[Halting Hex]

Ah, good point.  Sebastian and Ashley may be sheltering together (last I heard, they were engaged), but presumably not at Mark's.  

(I saw his reaction to the Dr. Who premiere this season, which was pre-lockdown, IIRC, and that was solo, but I just assumed that was because DW is Mark's special passion [pun!] and he didn't need the gang for that.  I hadn't taken logistics into account.  Hmm.)

[Halting Hex]

Quote

JENNY (to her class): Don't forget, I need your sample spreadsheets by the end of the week.

(The bell rings, and she walks around behind her desk.)

JENNY: Oh, and I want both a paper printout and a copy on disk. Thank you.

Oh, hey, Ty King!  Look at you subtly foreshadowing that Jenny uses two separate means of hard-copying her work, and thus setting up the end of the episode.  (And, presumably, the Chekov's gun that the disk will become, when or if it is found later on down the road.)  I do like good screenwriting.

Which makes me almost excuse this bit:
 

Quote

SHOPKEEPER: By the way... (she looks back) Not that it's any of my business, really, but, uh, what are you planning on conjuring up? If you can decipher the text?

JENNY: A present for a friend of mine. (lifts the Orb)

SHOPKEEPER: Really? What are you gonna give him? 

Er, ahem, Mr. Boogedy-Boogedy Store?  I didn't hear Jenny say anything that indicated her "friend" was a man, with man parts.  Nice sexist assumptions there!

Just so you know, women can be friends with other women, without it necessarily being a pretext to "pajama party with weapons" sleepovers that turn into amazing all-night sessions of tender lesbian love, like Buffy and Willow just had.  Honestly, dude.  Not all presents that women buy are means of attracting a man's attention.  

(Although, Jenny is getting her present for a man.  And she does attract his attention.  But still.  Don't assume.)

Quote

ANGEL: It's a miracle to me. You, you put the secrets to restoring my soul in here...

David is lisping something fierce on "secrets" here.  Dude, you're in human face in this shot.  Did you put the vampire teeth in early, or something?

Quote

([Angel] starts to tear the printout in half.)

JENNY: Wait. That's your...

ANGEL: Oh, my cure? (finishes tearing) No, thanks. Been there, done that, and deja vu just isn't what it used to be. 

Oh, I don't know…

Spoiler

if you compare the two parts of Becoming, I think Buffy running Angel through with a sword and sending him to hell is a bit of an improvement on the Gloating Gypsy in part 1.  Not that Zito Kavann doesn't do a nice job, but there's always room for more. I definitely think Buffy did a better job of twisting the knife, as it were.

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by Halting Hex

[lembergwatcher]

15 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Er, ahem, Mr. Boogedy-Boogedy Store?  I didn't hear Jenny say anything that indicated her "friend" was a man, with man parts.  Nice sexist assumptions there!

Not necessarily sexism. Probably different culture where presents are viewed as "means of attracting a man's attention". Or just a simple misunderstanding. Or Jenny had all these vibes, because there were at least two men on her mind at the moment, so the poor Shopkeeper assumed... 

There's an assumption the guy got killed by Dru although 

Spoiler

I don't remember any clear confirmation of the said possibility.

 

[lembergwatcher]

Quote

CORDELIA So, Giles is going to try to kill Angel, then.

XANDER (bitter) Well, it's about time somebody did.

WILLOW (shocked) Xander!

XANDER (with attitude) I'm sorry. But let's not forget that I hated Angel long before all of you guys jumped on the bandwagon. So, I think I deserve something for not saying "I told you so" long before now. And, if Giles wants to go after the… fiend who murdered his girlfriend, I say "Faster, Pussycat. Kill. Kill."

Shame on you, Xander, shame on you! How can you be so jealous? Why don't you just accept that Buffy can find happiness with only one man and that man isn't you? Who cares that he's a blood sucking leech and a mass murderer??? ALL those people would have died one way or another, it's not his fault. Who gives a fuck about some Jenny Calendar and all those puny humans anyway??? Angel is a cool guy, unlike you, Buffy still loves him no matter what and no one can even look at him funny, not to mention suggest killing him! See how you shocked your life-long friend Willow with your petty jealousy and vindictivness. You should be more open-minded and less selfish, Xander. Grow up, boy! 

Edited October 2, 2020 by lembergwatcher

[Halting Hex]

Easy, bro.  Yes, some of Buffy's fans might hyperventilate like that…but not, crucially, Ms. Slayer herself.

Quote

BUFFY (flatly) You're right.

WILLOW What?!

XANDER Thank you.

She caveats about the (possible) consequences of Giles's actions, but she doesn't disagree with Xander on the emotions.

Indeed, this cut scene (intended for the end of Act III, just before we see Giles preparing his revenge) points that out even more clearly:

Quote

Buffy and Willow run from the house as Cordelia's car pulls up to the curb.

Garlic strings and about a dozen crosses dangle from the rearview mirror like bulky Christian air fresheners.

Lol, that would have been cute to see!

Quote

Xander is in the passenger seat, Cordelia behind the wheel. They both look shaken.

The girls go to the car as Xander and Cordelia come out and meet them at the curb.

BUFFY:  Well? Where's Giles?

XANDER:  No luck. By the time we got to the station, the cops said he'd already left. I guess they just wanted to ask him some questions.

CORDELIA:  I still don't get it. Why Ms. Calendar? She was so... harmless.

XANDER (harsh):   Because Angel's a blood-sucking coward. They pick on the harmless.

Ohh, Angel's fans wouldn't have liked that one.  (Too bad.  Truth hurts, "Precious".)

Quote

CORDELIA:  And we're sure it was Angel?

BUFFY (hard )  It was Angel, all right.

People actually wrote Buffy/Angelus fanfic, hypothesizing that Buffy loved him SO much that she couldn't resist his sinister attraction, even soulless.  Some people just don't understand Buffy Summers.  

Spoiler

Unfortunately, such "people" ended up on the writing staff in later years, but at least for now she's the real Buffy.

It's arguable that perhaps this scene should have been left in, so as to drive home how angry Buffy is.  But, I don't know…I'm not sure I want to break the rhythm of Willow crying as she gets the news/Angel smirking (die, you worthless sack of…)/Giles packing up the weapons and heading out.  So…I'm ambivalent.  

("Nice to meet you, I'm Jessica."  Oh, stop that!  Nobody likes a smart-ass!)

Quote

CORDELIA: Did Giles say... is Ms. Calendar going to... you know, be a vampire?

WILLOW No.

This exchange can go, though.  We've already seen that we're not getting Vamp!Jenny.  

(Also, Willow leaves her antecedent murky.  Does she mean "No, Giles didn't say" or "No, Ms. Calendar won't be a vampire?"  Specify, girl!  Grief is no excuse for poor syntax! Sigh.)

Quote

BUFFY:  Cordelia, will you drive us to Giles' house?

CORDELIA:  Of course.

Helpful!Scooby!Cordelia always makes me smile, though. 🙂

Quote

WILLOW:  But do you think maybe he wants to be alone?

BUFFY (as they get in): I'm not worried about what he wants. I'm worried about what he's going to do.

But this just gets reiterated at the end of the aired scene under discussion ("It's gonna get [Giles] killed"), so I can see why this scene ultimately got the chop.  Nice character notes aside.

NOT from the shooting script:

Quote

GILES:  Buffy, I understand your concern, but it is imperative you remain level-headed in this.

BUFFY:  Easy for you. You don't have Angel lurking in your bedroom at night.

GILES:  Now, see here!  What two single men do on their own time is none of your…er, yes.  Good point.  Ahem.

Btw, not only is Jonathan not called "Jonathan" in the script, but the "STUDENTS" don't even have their gender specified.  Danny Strong must have a friend in the casting director's office or something, as he keeps getting all these not-necessarily-intended-for-Jonathan roles.  (As with "Hostage Kid" in WML2)  

Spoiler

So I guess we can't put all of the blame on Jane Espenson, after all.  Hmm.

 

Edited October 3, 2020 by Halting Hex

[lembergwatcher]

Yes, but why was Willow so shocked with Xander's mere suggestion someone should've dusted Angel? Xander was just Captain Obvious.

[Joe Hellandback]

On 10/3/2020 at 4:08 AM, Halting Hex said:

Easy, bro.  Yes, some of Buffy's fans might hyperventilate like that…but not, crucially, Ms. Slayer herself.

She caveats about the (possible) consequences of Giles's actions, but she doesn't disagree with Xander on the emotions.

Indeed, this cut scene (intended for the end of Act III, just before we see Giles preparing his revenge) points that out even more clearly:

Lol, that would have been cute to see!

Ohh, Angel's fans wouldn't have liked that one.  (Too bad.  Truth hurts, "Precious".)

People actually wrote Buffy/Angelus fanfic, hypothesizing that Buffy loved him SO much that she couldn't resist his sinister attraction, even soulless.  Some people just don't understand Buffy Summers.  

  Reveal spoiler

Unfortunately, such "people" ended up on the writing staff in later years, but at least for now she's the real Buffy.

It's arguable that perhaps this scene should have been left in, so as to drive home how angry Buffy is.  But, I don't know…I'm not sure I want to break the rhythm of Willow crying as she gets the news/Angel smirking (die, you worthless sack of…)/Giles packing up the weapons and heading out.  So…I'm ambivalent.  

("Nice to meet you, I'm Jessica."  Oh, stop that!  Nobody likes a smart-ass!)

This exchange can go, though.  We've already seen that we're not getting Vamp!Jenny.  

(Also, Willow leaves her antecedent murky.  Does she mean "No, Giles didn't say" or "No, Ms. Calendar won't be a vampire?"  Specify, girl!  Grief is no excuse for poor syntax! Sigh.)

Helpful!Scooby!Cordelia always makes me smile, though. 🙂

But this just gets reiterated at the end of the aired scene under discussion ("It's gonna get [Giles] killed"), so I can see why this scene ultimately got the chop.  Nice character notes aside.

NOT from the shooting script:

Btw, not only is Jonathan not called "Jonathan" in the script, but the "STUDENTS" don't even have their gender specified.  Danny Strong must have a friend in the casting director's office or something, as he keeps getting all these not-necessarily-intended-for-Jonathan roles.  (As with "Hostage Kid" in WML2)  

  Reveal spoiler

So I guess we can't put all of the blame on Jane Espenson, after all.  Hmm.

 

Interesting about Danny, Magic Jane was always the big Jonathon fan, maybe she kept getting him more screentime? 

[lembergwatcher]

Beating Angel with a fiery baseball bat was cool. Although instead of just beating the shit out of his girlfriend's killer, shouldn't Giles try to, you know, set the bastard on fire? Or burn Angel's hair? Can you imagine Captain Forehead without his precious hair? It sure as hell won't kill him, but the coolness factor?.. That could have been damaged...

[Halting Hex]

On 10/2/2020 at 11:08 PM, Halting Hex said:

Indeed, this cut scene (intended for the end of Act III, just before we see Giles preparing his revenge) points that out even more clearly:

Wait, what?  Apparently I forgot that a (truncated) version of this scene did make it into the final edit:

Quote

Cut to later.

Cordelia and Xander drive up to Buffy and Willow, who are waiting for them. Xander opens the passenger door and gets out.

BUFFY: Where's Giles?

XANDER: No luck. By the time we got to the station, (closes the door) the cops said he'd already left. (Cordelia closes her door) I guess they just wanted to ask him some questions.

BUFFY: Cordelia, will you drive us to Giles' house?

CORDELIA: Of course.

WILLOW: But don't you think he wants to be left alone?

BUFFY: I'm not worrying about what he wants. I'm worried about what he's gonna do.

They all get into the car.

Well, we're missing most of the good stuff (Xander referring to Angel as a coward, Buffy's "hard" line about "it was Angel, all right") but it's functional, if (apparently) forgettable.

I guess it's necessary to establish that the cops are done with Giles so that we're not distracted by wondering why he's at home at the start of the subsequent "Giles-in-Ripper-mode, packing up weapons" scene.  But Buffy's worrying about what Giles plans is still duplicated by her "it's gonna get him killed" at the end of the scene of the Scoobs in Giles's flat, and even her asking Giles if he's trying to get killed after the fight.  (We never do get an answer on that…)  Ty King, I love you, but we get it already.

Georgia and Aaron just got here (like Mark Ward and the gang, the UK's lockdown has made group reactions difficult) and they start by discussing the previous episode, with Georgia saying Aaron likes comic eps such as BB&B, but she prefers the scary ones.  Which prompts an after-the-fact edit with titles saying she's going to eat those words.  (She likes those edits, even though they're one of the reasons she feels she can't do a Patreon for unedited full episodes.  A pity.)

They speculate on whom Angel will go after:  Joyce, perhaps?  But Drusilla's vision points them to Jenny and the scene at the Boogedy-Boogedy Store confirms it;  they knew it was Jenny even before they see her enter, because they recognize her by the clunky-heeled shoes, lol.  (Personally, the maxi-skirt would have clued me in…)

Quote

Angel snaps Jenny's neck, killing her.  Aaron is shocked.  Georgia covers her face, heartbroken.

ME (bitter):  Just wait.  It gets "better".

Aaron opines that he would rather it had been Joyce who was killed.  I agree, but if Joe wishes to debate it with him, he does have his own YT channel now…

Quote

Giles finds the body.  Georgia is full-on sobbing, now.

ME (even more bitter, crying):  Oh, no, there's more!  IT GETS "BETTER"!!

I really have no idea why I do this shit to myself.

Quote

While Angel watches, Buffy collapses and slides down against the wall, then silently hands the phone to Willow.

AARON:  Christ, don't make Giles say it [the news] twice.

Fair enough, but I'll give Buffy a pass here.

They discuss the symbolism of the puppy, with the tale of Angel nailing a puppy to the [unspecified] last episode and Willow saying that she's glad that her parents didn't let her get a puppy in this one (after she finds her slaughtered fish).  And then of course, Drusilla is carrying around Sunshine all episode.  ("His owner died…without a fight.")  Is the puppy a symbol of innocence?  Is Jenny the sacrificial lamb puppy in this story?  Personally, I'm not sure there was such planning involved, but I'm willing to be persuaded.

Quote

GEORGIA:  Why don't they [the Scoobs] just fire-bomb the factory?  They know where it is.

AARON (taken aback):  Well, they're not al-Qaeda.

I don't know, Aaron;  if that's what it takes to get rid of Angel, you might be able to sign me up…

(And of course, by ep's end, the factory has been burned down, and the vamps have escaped and now Buffy doesn't know where they are.  So Ty King was closing that plot hole, asap.)

Edited March 5, 2021 by Halting Hex