Mya Stone July 14, 2014 Share July 14, 2014 As Valentine's Day approaches, Xander tries to improve his love life through witchcraft and finds himself with too much of a good thing. A love spell. Those never go wrong! The first glimpse of Amy as a...less than savory...witch. Spike's awful poetry...what rhymes with lungs, indeed. Buffy rat! Angelus's large declarations of love! (Have a heart.) Favorite part? Crazy-In-Love (with Xander) Dru, and Ms. Calendar being dragged away in the library from him. Link to comment
Loandbehold July 14, 2014 Share July 14, 2014 You can't talk about this episode w/o mentioning the "Got the Love" perp walk down the hallway. Or Cordelia's, "Get your mom-aged mitts off my boyfriend - former!" Giles telling Xander that he can't believe he'd be foolish enough to mess with a love spell and Xander's "oh, I'm twice the fool." This might be the funniest episode of the series for me. It's definitely in the Top 3. 2 Link to comment
mstaken July 14, 2014 Share July 14, 2014 I'm not generally a huge Xander/Cordy fan but, oh, how I love this episode. It's definitely in my top 10 of the entire series, and probably even top 5. I'm not sure I ever like Cordelia more than I do in the final scene of this episode, and NB's acting is especially top notch IMO. For me BB&B is the perfect combination of all types of BtVS humor, warmth, action and sudden lump-in-throat poignancy. Link to comment
Spartan Girl July 15, 2014 Share July 15, 2014 I still say it was pretty messed up that Xander cast the love spell just so that he could dump Cordy...and yet when everything blows up in his face and he comes clean to Cordy, instead of being pissed off she thinks it's sweet? 1 Link to comment
Loandbehold July 15, 2014 Share July 15, 2014 I still say it was pretty messed up that Xander cast the love spell just so that he could dump Cordy It definitely was. After Amy tells him that the intent of a love spell has to be pure, he says his intent is revenge. The show makes it very clear that Xander is wrong to have the spell cast. and yet when everything blows up in his face and he comes clean to Cordy, instead of being pissed off she thinks it's sweet? Yep, Xander suffered absolutely no consequences from the spell. No, wait, Giles yells at him, Oz punches him, Angel(us) tries to kill him and pulls him out of a second story window, he is threatened and attacked by almost every woman in Sunnydale, every guy in the highschool wants to beat the crap out of him, and Willow isn't talking to him. Buffy said that he as at least one month of groveling before that changes. 1 Link to comment
Spartan Girl July 15, 2014 Share July 15, 2014 Well, Cordelia still should have dumped him for good after that. It would have spared her from getting her heart broken in season 3. With all the fallout Xander got from the spell (minimal tho it may be IMHO), it was pretty big of Buffy to be relatively forgiving. For all of the critics on both Xander and Buffy's behavior in future episodes, and the endless debating of who was right and wrong, you have to admit that whenever Xander screwed up (with the love spell, cheating on Cordy with Willow, leaving Anya at the altar, etc) Buffy never came off to me as judgmental towards him. at least as far as I could see. 2 Link to comment
Jazzy24 July 15, 2014 Share July 15, 2014 I never cared for this episode, tho I do like Xander but I just didn't care for it. And I do love Xander/Cordelia :-) Link to comment
Cobalt Stargazer July 15, 2014 Share July 15, 2014 It definitely was. After Amy tells him that the intent of a love spell has to be pure, he says his intent is revenge. The show makes it very clear that Xander is wrong to have the spell cast. Yep, Xander suffered absolutely no consequences from the spell. No, wait, Giles yells at him, Oz punches him, Angel(us) tries to kill him and pulls him out of a second story window, he is threatened and attacked by almost every woman in Sunnydale, every guy in the highschool wants to beat the crap out of him, and Willow isn't talking to him. Buffy said that he as at least one month of groveling before that changes. Not to mention that Drusilla falls in love with him as a direct result of the spell. Given how Dru behaves when she falls in love, Angelus probably saved Xander's life. Link to comment
DAngelus July 16, 2014 Share July 16, 2014 Ms. Calendar being dragged away in the library from [Xander]. What's great is that, when Jenny starts becoming obvious in her attraction, there's like a half-second when Xander is almost considering going for it. I mean, Jenny is single and he's the one who said she was "reasonably doll-some", after all. I also love Oz clearly checking out Naked!De-Ratted!Buffy in the basement. One of his most human moments, IMO. (Yeah, he loves Willow. But Buffy having "a slight case of nudity" right in front of you? That's gonna get a reaction, just saying.) My favorite extra of all time may be the non-speaking black-haired Cordette in this episode. Seriously hot. (Sorry, Asian Dan! I always enjoy seeing you, but that girl is something else.) Link to comment
VCRTracking July 20, 2014 Share July 20, 2014 Agreed. This part still makes me laugh: Link to comment
Joe Hellandback June 21, 2018 Share June 21, 2018 On 14/07/2014 at 10:30 PM, Mya Stone said: Favorite part? Crazy-In-Love (with Xander) Dru, and Ms. Calendar being dragged away in the library from him. Yeah, I think some truly brilliant acting from Robia, trying to be serious with Giles but unable to suppress her urges for the now irresistible Xander. On 14/07/2014 at 10:59 PM, Loandbehold said: You can't talk about this episode w/o mentioning the "Got the Love" perp walk down the hallway. Or Cordelia's, "Get your mom-aged mitts off my boyfriend - former!" For anyone who says 'Oh Ryan Reynolds should have been Xander' this episode refutes that, no one could have been more perfect than Nic. On 14/07/2014 at 11:09 PM, mstaken said: I'm not generally a huge Xander/Cordy fan but, oh, how I love this episode. It's definitely in my top 10 of the entire series, and probably even top 5. I'm not sure I ever like Cordelia more than I do in the final scene of this episode, and NB's acting is especially top notch IMO. For me BB&B is the perfect combination of all types of BtVS humor, warmth, action and sudden lump-in-throat poignancy. Which makes it all the more tragic when....? On 15/07/2014 at 2:09 PM, Spartan Girl said: I still say it was pretty messed up that Xander cast the love spell just so that he could dump Cordy...and yet when everything blows up in his face and he comes clean to Cordy, instead of being pissed off she thinks it's sweet? The girl who gets knocked up by every demon she meets and the boy irresistible to supernatural girls? On 15/07/2014 at 5:31 PM, Loandbehold said: It definitely was. After Amy tells him that the intent of a love spell has to be pure, he says his intent is revenge. The show makes it very clear that Xander is wrong to have the spell cast. Yep, Xander suffered absolutely no consequences from the spell. No, wait, Giles yells at him, Oz punches him, Angel(us) tries to kill him and pulls him out of a second story window, he is threatened and attacked by almost every woman in Sunnydale, every guy in the highschool wants to beat the crap out of him, and Willow isn't talking to him. Buffy said that he as at least one month of groveling before that changes. Every Scoob screws up with magic at some time, admittedly Xander more than most. On 15/07/2014 at 6:59 PM, Jazzy24 said: I never cared for this episode, tho I do like Xander but I just didn't care for it. And I do love Xander/Cordelia :-) Really? Apart from The Zeppo surely this is his Tour De Force? On 15/07/2014 at 9:07 PM, Cobalt Stargazer said: Not to mention that Drusilla falls in love with him as a direct result of the spell. Given how Dru behaves when she falls in love, Angelus probably saved Xander's life. Those supernatural girls, they just can't resist the Xan-man On 16/07/2014 at 9:41 AM, DAngelus said: What's great is that, when Jenny starts becoming obvious in her attraction, there's like a half-second when Xander is almost considering going for it. I mean, Jenny is single and he's the one who said she was "reasonably doll-some", after all. I also love Oz clearly checking out Naked!De-Ratted!Buffy in the basement. One of his most human moments, IMO. (Yeah, he loves Willow. But Buffy having "a slight case of nudity" right in front of you? That's gonna get a reaction, just saying.) My favorite extra of all time may be the non-speaking black-haired Cordette in this episode. Seriously hot. (Sorry, Asian Dan! I always enjoy seeing you, but that girl is something else.) Always sorry they didn't keep the Cordettes constant over time, except for Harmony they were always changing. I never got any attraction between Buffy and Oz, never even read any fanfic with that pairing. On 20/07/2014 at 4:40 AM, VCRTracking said: Agreed. This part still makes me laugh: Joyce is one heck of a MILF, I'm not sure you realised it until this ep. I'm intrigued, what was the image you weren't allowed? Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered The Good; Just when you thought it couldn't get any better! Pretty much everything, even the music is superb, especially when Xander does his slow walk through the school. It really does set the bar for other eps. The Bad; Are you insane? This may well be my favourite Buffy ep EVER! Best line; Dru; "Don't fret kitten, mummy's here. How do you feel about eternal life?" Xander (terrified); "We couldn't just start with coffee?" Angelus (bemused) "Boy I really did drive you insane!" Whedon clichés; Character death-0 Bondage-0 Knocked out-0 Shot-0 Women good/men bad-0 Kinky-dinky; yep, Willow enthusiastically telling Xander that 'Force is OK' showing the naughty girl behind the softer side of Sears (love her impish smile as she says this). Buffy's striptease too. What the fanficcer's thought; A spell/enchantment making one character irresistible to all the subject of more fics than you can shake a stick at. Questions and observations; Lovely to see Amy and Jenny back and Harmony playing a fairly major role. Buffy's slit leopardskin mini-skirt is just SCANDALOUS, is this the outfit Joyce refused to buy her in Bad Eggs? Xander meanwhile seems to be dressed as though he's auditioning for Life on Mars, you could go handgliding with that collar. I always knew Cordy and Buffy and Jenny were lovely but here I think for the first time you realise the incredible sexiness of Alysson Hannigan, all the more remarkable for her wearing a man's shirt at the time. Joyce has been introduced to Cordy and greets her by name when she turns up at the door. Exactly how long are Cordy and Xander running around, it's light when they leave the school but dark when they reach Buffy's house? If I was to single one performance out from them all it would actually be Robia LaMorte for playing Jenny, the way she tries to talk to Giles whilst being gradually overcome by her irresistible attraction to Xander. Amy's bitchy comment that Jenny is old enough to be Queen of the World is a bit much as she's only 28 at the time of shooting. Note Spike's charming present for Dru contrasted to Angelus' hideous gift, his humanity once more shines through. The jealousy between the three shows through, Angelus tormenting Spike in all sorts of subtle little ways. I once read a very short but hugely funny slashfic called 'Bewitched, bothered and befuddled' where Amy's spell goes wrong in a slightly different way, resulting in all the boys lusting after Xander rather than the girls, even Angelus. Anyone else read that one? 10/10, just terrific in every way Link to comment
Halting Hex June 21, 2018 Share June 21, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Joe Hellandback said: I never got any attraction between Buffy and Oz, never even read any fanfic with that pairing. There was an entire Yahoo group devoted to them, and I think an archive. The idea being that the Slayer and the Wolf were both predators, that Buffy could handle a supernatural boyfriend in ways that Willow couldn't and that this cleared the path for a "soulmate" W/X pairing. Only really flourished in Spoiler early S4, as people who would 'ship this would be pro-Bangel until Broody buggered off to his spinoff but it definitely was a thing. Myself, I'm just glad they allow Oz to be a normal guy who gets distracted by naked girls rather than the Perfect Boyfriend they (IMO) too often plasticize him as. 1 hour ago, Joe Hellandback said: I'm intrigued, what was the image [that was]n't allowed? A screencap of the scrumptious non-speaking black-haired Cordette being discussed. It was up there for years; the hosting site must have changed its policy. 1 hour ago, Joe Hellandback said: Amy's bitchy comment that Jenny is old enough to be Queen of the World is a bit much as she's only 28 at the time of shooting. What's remarkable is that because they cast "up" for Cordelia but "down' for Jenny, Robia is playing CC's teacher, when she's actually all of 17 days older. If Cordy had said the "mom-aged mitts" line to Jenny, she'd have been saying it someone born in the same month (July, 1970) as she was. 1 hour ago, Joe Hellandback said: This may well be my favourite Buffy ep EVER! Buffy's enspelled for Act II and a rat for Act III. I like a little more Buffy in my Buffy, personally. (Of course, this is all due to the SNL-hosting gig SMG was doing that week, and it hardly makes me dislike the episode. Just keeps it from the heights of perfection that Innocence and Prophecy Girl and one other upcoming ep attain. Still, 4 out of 144 doesn't exactly suck.) On 7/14/2014 at 3:09 PM, mstaken said: For me BB&B is the perfect combination of all types of BtVS humor, warmth, action and sudden lump-in-throat poignancy. It's these poignant notes IMO lift Season 2 over its closest competition and lift this episode over its most obvious comparison. (Which, again, comes off pretty well on its own, as I'll discuss when you get there. It just doesn't quite have the depth this one has.) 1 hour ago, Joe Hellandback said: 10/10, just terrific in every way I often think you're a bit too generous with those "10/10" ratings (which of course is silly of me, they being your ratings, after all), given the wide variety of episodes that end up with them Spoiler Lies My Executive Producer Told Me? Honestly? But absolutely no disagreement here. Foreshadowing: Spoiler The fact that Angel can get into Buffy's house (whereas uninvited Drusilla can't) is an indication about how important that invitation (and the disinvitation spell) will be next episode. Foreshadowing? Spoiler When Willow is all "force is okay" and is sucking on Xander's ear (RAWR!) and Xander's trying to beg off by invoking Oz, she says "he's sweet…but he's not you", prompting Xander to say "yes, he is! And you should go to him, because he's me." Six episodes later, when Xander finally opens his heart to Coma!Willow and admits he loves her (and NOT in a bff, "who's gonna help me pass trig?" way)…she thinks it's Oz speaking and calls for him. Oh, Xand, if only you hadn't given her mixed signals here… Edited June 21, 2018 by Halting Hex Link to comment
Joe Hellandback June 23, 2018 Share June 23, 2018 On 21/06/2018 at 8:27 PM, Halting Hex said: There was an entire Yahoo group devoted to them, and I think an archive. The idea being that the Slayer and the Wolf were both predators, that Buffy could handle a supernatural boyfriend in ways that Willow couldn't and that this cleared the path for a "soulmate" W/X pairing. Only really flourished in Hide contents early S4, as people who would 'ship this would be pro-Bangel until Broody buggered off to his spinoff but it definitely was a thing. Myself, I'm just glad they allow Oz to be a normal guy who gets distracted by naked girls rather than the Perfect Boyfriend they (IMO) too often plasticize him as. A screencap of the scrumptious non-speaking black-haired Cordette being discussed. It was up there for years; the hosting site must have changed its policy. What's remarkable is that because they cast "up" for Cordelia but "down' for Jenny, Robia is playing CC's teacher, when she's actually all of 17 days older. If Cordy had said the "mom-aged mitts" line to Jenny, she'd have been saying it someone born in the same month (July, 1970) as she was. Buffy's enspelled for Act II and a rat for Act III. I like a little more Buffy in my Buffy, personally. (Of course, this is all due to the SNL-hosting gig SMG was doing that week, and it hardly makes me dislike the episode. Just keeps it from the heights of perfection that Innocence and Prophecy Girl and one other upcoming ep attain. Still, 4 out of 144 doesn't exactly suck.) It's these poignant notes IMO lift Season 2 over its closest competition and lift this episode over its most obvious comparison. (Which, again, comes off pretty well on its own, as I'll discuss when you get there. It just doesn't quite have the depth this one has.) I often think you're a bit too generous with those "10/10" ratings (which of course is silly of me, they being your ratings, after all), given the wide variety of episodes that end up with them Hide contents But absolutely no disagreement here. Foreshadowing: Hide contents The fact that Angel can get into Buffy's house (whereas uninvited Drusilla can't) is an indication about how important that invitation (and the disinvitation spell) will be next episode. Foreshadowing? Hide contents When Willow is all "force is okay" and is sucking on Xander's ear (RAWR!) and Xander's trying to beg off by invoking Oz, she says "he's sweet…but he's not you", prompting Xander to say "yes, he is! And you should go to him, because he's me." Six episodes later, when Xander finally opens his heart to Coma!Willow and admits he loves her (and NOT in a bff, "who's gonna help me pass trig?" way)…she thinks it's Oz speaking and calls for him. Oh, Xand, if only you hadn't given her mixed signals here… I don't know, I mean he doesn't even look at CC in her pussycat outfit? Until you know who comes along does he ever have eyes for another girl? I'll look again for the Oz/Buffy ship, I know he's a little like Pike from the movie but did that ever really work? I never saw any Boz even on Unconventional Relationshippers and it had some pretty unconventional relationships (Buffy/Quellar Demon, Willow/VampWillow, Giles/Spike). Lies My Executive Producer Told Me? Honestly? Well, talk about that at the time. I'm not sure the signals were all that mixed? Link to comment
Halting Hex June 23, 2018 Share June 23, 2018 14 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said: Buffy/Quellar Demon Say what??? I mean, MAYBE the Lei-Ach (they do have the cutest suppurating sores), but the Queller is just plain slimy. 14 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said: Lies My Executive Producer Told Me? Honestly? Hey, sometimes we just called Joss out by name. ("LJWTM", for short.) It's just that this formulation allowed the "My" to stay in the title. 14 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said: I'm not sure the signals were all that mixed? I mean the ones Xander was sending Willow, not vice versa. Willow's emotions were plain, even before she climbed into his bed. Heck, it seems as though Buffy and Xander were discussing Willow's feelings all the time, although I guess it's really just I Robot, You Jane and Inca Mummy Girl and this episode. Still, given that Buffy seems to be Xillow-'shipper #1, perhaps Xander should have offered her a deal: she slays Angel and he asks Willow out. I mean, nothing else seems to be working… Link to comment
Joe Hellandback June 24, 2018 Share June 24, 2018 10 hours ago, Halting Hex said: Say what??? I mean, MAYBE the Lei-Ach (they do have the cutest suppurating sores), but the Queller is just plain slimy. Hey, sometimes we just called Joss out by name. ("LJWTM", for short.) It's just that this formulation allowed the "My" to stay in the title. I mean the ones Xander was sending Willow, not vice versa. Willow's emotions were plain, even before she climbed into his bed. Heck, it seems as though Buffy and Xander were discussing Willow's feelings all the time, although I guess it's really just I Robot, You Jane and Inca Mummy Girl and this episode. Still, given that Buffy seems to be Xillow-'shipper #1, perhaps Xander should have offered her a deal: she slays Angel and he asks Willow out. I mean, nothing else seems to be working… I could make a joke here about 'natural lube' but I won't. The Buffy/Willow/Xander triangle is complex, it's all a game of bluff, each seems to actually know it's happening but won't admit it to one another. Link to comment
SosaLola June 25, 2018 Share June 25, 2018 I've seen so many fans claim that Xander did not receive criticism for his actions in this episode. And the general thought that this episode is beyond gross because Xander ends up getting the girl and was not punished for his actions. Here’s the shocker, Xander DOES get punished for his actions. Not only that, but he’ll learn his lesson, too. 1. The narrative punishes Xander from the beginning by backfiring the spell, getting his hopes up about Buffy only to crush them to pieces, getting all the girls Xander didn’t want to fall obsessively in love with him with nowhere to hide, heck so many women came on to him and could have raped him (No one can stop Buffy if she decided to jump his bones after he asked her not to) Jenny and Joyce, older women who kept touching him without consent. Heck Drusilla made him shake with horror as she tried to turn him to a vampire. Xander in this episode was subjected to a lot crap that womenusually get subjected too. Being touched and harassed without his consent. And most importantly, the narrative punishes Xander by turning every female in Sunnydale against him and striding to murder him. If Giles and Amy’s spell was a minute’s late, Xander would have been killed because of his actions. 2. Giles made it absolutely clear that Xander was an asshole for what he did and kicked him out of the library. He couldn’t even stand the sight of him. 3. Willow stopped talking to Xander after the spell was over. 4. Oz punched him in the face. 5. Angel tossed him from the top of the roof to the ground - which should have resulted to Xander breaking something in his body - and almost killed him to leave his dead body as a present to Buffy. How creepy is that. Basically, none of that would have happened had Xander not asked Amy to do the spell. Which means that this list of punishments was done to Xander because of his actions! The fans would completely brush all that aside because of two scenes in the episode: a. Buffy thanking Xander for not raping her. Personally, I think this reflects badly on Xander rather than showing him as a good person. It’s insulting to Xander. Did Buffy seriously expect her best friend to rape her??? What does that say about their friendship? b. Cordelia thinking the spell was romantic. Interestingly enough, Cordelia thinking that “Xander putting a spell on her to make her fall in love with him” as romantic whereas is she knew the truth that he only did it to “break up with her and make her suffer the same way he did” - the male version of Anya’s vengeance demon ways (Xander would make a scary vengeance demon due to the way he holds a grudge like nobody’s business and how he judges others.) Anyway, back to Cordelia. I seriously believe that Cordelia’s reaction is true to her character at that time in the story. Sort of a Midsummer Night’s Dream romantic. I also think that the show at this time was still maturing - for example, Buffy’s outfits in the first and second seasons were clearly for the male gaze. Notice how later in the series, she starts dressing differently and in more practical yet stylish clothes for slaying. Now if Cordelia knew about Xander’s real intentions: “The point is I want her to want me. Desperately. So I can break up with *her*and subject her to the same hell she’s been puttin’ *me* through.” - which admittedly are far less disgusting than taking away Cordelia’s agency so she could love him forever and clearly an impulsive reaction to being dumped and mocked by others for it - she wouldn’t have thought it was romantic. Hell, she probably wouldn’t have gone out with him eventually. IMPORTANT: I do wish that Cordelia didn’t think it was romantic and delayed wanting to be with him after a few episodes. And I do think that Xander did a bad thing here and deservedly got punished and we should have seen him and Willow reconciling in the next episode. I was just explaining the events from the character’s POV. Xander learns his lesson: Lover’s Walk. Being venomously disapproving of Willow’s de-lusting spell “Are you nuts, or have you forgotten that I tend to have bad luck with these sorts of spells? ….. So, do you really need to resort to the black arts to keep our hormones in check? …. I’m gonna get the lights, (walks) clean this place up before they get here (clicks them on) and start asking questions.” Link to comment
Halting Hex June 26, 2018 Share June 26, 2018 4 hours ago, SosaLola said: Did Buffy seriously expect her best friend to rape her??? What does that say about their friendship? "Rape" implies force, or at least the use of some active agency to take away the other party's ability to consent. (Spiking somebody's drink, to run with Buffy's "The Great Roofie Spirit" analogy.) This is more like "Xander tells Buffy he likes her, Buffy says 'no' and then one night Buffy is feeling lonely and says 'ah, what the hell' (and maybe she's a little drunk) and things work out, after all." Given that Buffy is visibly carrying around a boatload of The Post-Angel Blues, in Xander's mind it's not exactly impossible that she might call the ol' Comfortador out of the bullpen to make the pain go away. (I mean, the funeral home scene in Phases just happened, after all.) And yet, here, when Xander's about to get his dream-come-true, he's aware enough to realize that Buffy really isn't herself and decent enough not to give into temptation. I think that deserves a perfectly good amount of credit; lots of guys would have just followed their emotions here. Frankly, I'm even side-eyeing everybody's favorite Plastic Werewolf for cold-cocking Xander with absolutely zero information, given that Willow apparently wasn't capable of any more than incoherent sobbing. If the spell had gone differently and Willow had slinked her way into Oz's bed (maybe the spell made all the women in town uninhibitedly pursue their loved ones, rather than just chase Xander?), would Oz have shown the restraint that Xander shows here, or would he be just "well, if Willow really wants it…" and helped her pluck that pesky flower? I know, I know, in Innocence he didn't want to even kiss her until everything was Just.Perfect…but we see here that he does act on Willow-centric impulses, after all. (Maybe going wolfy since then has made him more aggressive?) So I'll commend Xander for his restraint, just as Buffy does, because restraint takes effort, no matter the circumstances. JMO. 1 Link to comment
lembergwatcher August 29, 2018 Share August 29, 2018 (edited) As much as I find the idea of Buffy being locked up naked in the basement with Oz rather attractive, still there's something that bothers me: Why the heck is the whole freakin' Sunnydale High all of a sudden starts gossiping about X/C breakup like it's some freakin' event of the month? Buffy assaulted the teacher in front of a class in Innocence and no one gave a damn! Why not listen to Cordelia on those few occassions when she says the right thing? Quote Cordelia: I know. I'm sorry. It's just... Who are we kidding? Even if parts of us do see specialness, we don't fit. 3. What's with the writers' habit of portraying their characters as some small-minded fools? You want the Hellmouth to be working for ya, Xander? Why waste time with the stupid love spells? If they treated yours truly the way they treated Xander, I would... I dunno... try to find Ethan Rayne and beg him to teach me some good old chaos magic. Spoiler At least Jonathan could think, you know, globally, and knew some better (in a twisted sense) ways to use magic. 4. And who are you trying to fool, Marti Noxon, by making it look like magic is the only way for someone like Xander to attract girls? How about certain Willow Rosenberg, who was head over heels for the boy back when he was a treasurer for "We Hate Cordelia Club". I might voice an unpopular opinion, but the thing is I find the idea of Xander dating Amy pretty good. I guess they had much more in common than we tend to believe. Since Cordy couldn't decide what she wanted more: keeping her royal status in SH or dating Xander, and Willow was heavily into guitarist of some average pop rock band, Amy could be some kinda alternative. And then... Willow with an axe... Quote Willow: I should've known I'd find you with her. Xander: Will... Come on, you don't wanna hurt me. Willow: Oh, no? You don't know how hard this is for me. I love you so much! I'd rather see you dead than with that bitch. I totally agree with your description of Cordelia, Will, but... Spoiler But after abominable season 6 and all of that Dark Willow-shtick many in the fandom started looking back to find the proof to a claim that Willow was "evil" all along. Someone cite that "Willow with an axe" moment - despite knowing that Willow was under a spell (i. e. not in her right mind) and killing someone wasn't in her character (there were no other signs of little Wicca's "violent" nature). Not a big fun of this episode as a whole, though many people view it as almost groundbreaking or something. Spoiler More than four years later they'll try to recreate the mood of an early Buffy (including almost ripping off BB&B in S.07.E.06 Him Spoiler Considering that Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered first aired on Feb. 10 (but events took place on Valentine Day), 1998, and Passion premiered on Feb. 24, it took from ten days to two weeks for Willow to "bury the hatchet" and start talking to Xander again. Edited August 29, 2018 by lembergwatcher Link to comment
Loandbehold August 29, 2018 Share August 29, 2018 9 minutes ago, lembergwatcher said: Why the heck is the whole freakin' Sunnydale High all of a sudden starts gossiping about X/C breakup like it's some freakin' event of the month? Buffy assaulted the teacher in front of a class in Innocence and no one gave a damn! Buffy was that weird chick nobody really knew. She did have some reputation for violence starting from practically the first day she arrived at SHS. So, her choking a teacher is rather ho-hum and not unexpected. But, Cordelia dating Xander in the first place was shocking. She's Queen C and Xander wasn't a jock or a musician or in any other cool clique. Once she broke up w/ him, and the way she did it - on Valentine's Day in public at the Bronze - made it ripe for the gossip mill. Link to comment
Jack Shaftoe August 29, 2018 Share August 29, 2018 2 hours ago, lembergwatcher said: 4. And who are you trying to fool, Marti Noxon, by making it look like magic is the only way for someone like Xander to attract girls? Exactly what in the episode made you think that this was the intended message? It's very clear that Cordelia for one is attracted to Xander, she only dumped him to keep her reputation in the eyes of her moronic friends. Spoiler I have never seen anyone say anything about Willow's axe murder tendencies being a clue for Dark Willow, I am sure someone must have said it at some point but this so grossly misses the point of the way the spell went wrong in B, B and B that I don't see why it should count as a flaw of that particular episode. Link to comment
Halting Hex August 29, 2018 Share August 29, 2018 4 hours ago, lembergwatcher said: If they treated yours truly the way they treated Xander, I would... I dunno... try to find Ethan Rayne and beg him to teach me some good old chaos magic. Ethan's left town, and any spells he might teach Xander would probably have the male SHS students chasing after him. Xander wants that, he knows where to find Larry. (Or perhaps Ethan would make Xander attractive to demons. Or male demons. Or…) Link to comment
lembergwatcher August 29, 2018 Share August 29, 2018 1 hour ago, Jack Shaftoe said: Exactly what in the episode made you think that this was the intended message? Quote Cordelia: And keep your mom-aged mitts off my boyfriend. Former! (to Xander) Why has everyone gone insane? Xander: Insane? Is it so impossible for you to believe that other women find me attractive? Cordelia: The only way you could get girls to want you would be witchcraft. Xander: That is such a... (concedes) Well, yeah, okay, good point. Quote Xander: (looks back at her) None of this would've happened if you hadn't broken up with me. But no, you're so desperate to be popular! (hammers) Cordelia: Me? I'm not the one who embraced the black arts just to get the girls to like me. Well, congratulations, it worked! 1 hour ago, Jack Shaftoe said: It's very clear that Cordelia for one is attracted to Xander, she only dumped him to keep her reputation in the eyes of her moronic friends. If she puts her reputation above her feelings for her significant other, than her attraction cannot be taken seriously. And in case of Cordelia I don't see any actual feelings. I guess she was with Xander just for the thrill of it all. Spoiler And I got a feeling she was embarrassed most of the time for her being with Xander Quote Cordelia: You're a sheep. All you ever do is what everyone else does just so you can say you did it first. And here I am, scrambling for your approval, when I'm *way* cooler than you are 'cause I'm *not* a sheep. I do what I wanna do, and I wear what I wanna wear. And you know what? I'll date whoever the hell I wanna date. No matter how lame he is. That quote somehow proves my point. Cordy's being with Xander had very little to do with any true feelings, but almost everything to do with her desire to prove herself, to show how superior she is, to challenge her (former) friends and make it clear she doesn't give a damn 'bout what anyone thinks. It wasn't about Xander, it was about Cordelia's desire to break free from rules and regulations of so-called "high society". As for Willow: Spoiler In this episode, we get to see a little of Willow's dark, murderous side. This persona is further developed during season six, from "Bargaining, Part One" to "Wrecked," and "Seeing Red" to "Grave." - http://buffy.wikia.com/wiki/Bewitched,_Bothered_and_Bewildered Link to comment
Halting Hex August 29, 2018 Share August 29, 2018 Well, that's from a Wikia. Anybody can post whatever shit they want there. Spoiler But still. They can go fuck themselves with that. Link to comment
Jack Shaftoe August 29, 2018 Share August 29, 2018 4 minutes ago, lembergwatcher said: If she puts her reputation above her feelings for her significant other, than her attraction cannot be taken seriously. And in case of Cordelia I don't see any actual feelings. I guess she was with Xander just for the thrill of it all. Well, there is your problem. If you don't see any actual feelings of course the episode isn't going to work for you. As for the quotes you have provided they refer to literally every woman in town suddenly wanting to have sex with Xander, not to anyone finding him attractive at all. Cordelia was just being whimsical but it's pretty clear what she meant, IMO. Quote That quote somehow proves my point. Cordy's being with Xander had very little to do with any true feelings, You honestly think Cordelia wasn't using irony when she added "No matter how lame he is."? I mean, she knew Xander was listening and added this bit both to spite the Cordettes and because she and Xander loved their verbal sparring. I see no indication that she honestly considered Xander "lame" at that point, she only turned against him when he cheated on her and that was perfectly understandable. Spoiler I don't really see the problem with the wikia quote it's technically correct. It doesn't say "this is a big clue for Willow's future development" or any nonsense like that, after all. Link to comment
lembergwatcher August 29, 2018 Share August 29, 2018 1 minute ago, Jack Shaftoe said: Well, there is your problem. If you don't see any actual feelings of course the episode isn't going to work for you. Well, yes. Because no matter how hard I try I still can't take all that X/C shtick seriously. But that's just my subjective POV. Cordelia was still too self-centered as of season 2, and, quoting Buffy, her significant other "could find somebody more... better". Probably I'm a little bit biased, when it comes to Queen C. Spoiler Though I started to respect and sometimes even admire Cordelia in the first three seasons of Angel. 30 minutes ago, Jack Shaftoe said: You honestly think Cordelia wasn't using irony when she added "No matter how lame he is."? Maybe I'm not following this whole irony subtext, but Cordy was known to be a very straightforward girl, who really meant what she said. Link to comment
illdoc August 29, 2018 Share August 29, 2018 And Spoiler in Angel, she does indicate Xander was a "fixer-upper" Link to comment
Halting Hex August 30, 2018 Share August 30, 2018 2 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said: I see no indication that she honestly considered Xander "lame" at that point I think Cordelia is still aware of Xander's social standing, and when she refers to him as "lame", it's more an "I don't care what you think" description rather than an "I have a weird thing for dorks" self-assessment. Yes, Xander's still from a disreputable family and dresses poorly and is a horrible dancer and the ex-Cordettes will never accept him…but Cordy doesn't care. She's going to date him, despite everything and everyone that tells her that she shouldn't. Because she has real feelings, spell or no spell. Just because she isn't in Buffy's ear about it all the time (the way that Willow is), that doesn't make her feelings any less real. You can see this before the spell ever hits; she broke up with him because of the pressure, but she was still wearing his locket (under the blouse). If she was only rebelling against Harmony, Katie, et. al., the locket probably wouldn't have even been in her locker, much less on her person. But JMO. (Also, why would Cordelia want to rebel against her flock? She's clearly unhappy with the social costs involved. If this was only an empty gesture, she wouldn't have made it.) 2 Link to comment
Joe Hellandback September 30, 2018 Share September 30, 2018 On 25/06/2018 at 11:29 PM, SosaLola said: I've seen so many fans claim that Xander did not receive criticism for his actions in this episode. And the general thought that this episode is beyond gross because Xander ends up getting the girl and was not punished for his actions. Here’s the shocker, Xander DOES get punished for his actions. Not only that, but he’ll learn his lesson, too. 1. The narrative punishes Xander from the beginning by backfiring the spell, getting his hopes up about Buffy only to crush them to pieces, getting all the girls Xander didn’t want to fall obsessively in love with him with nowhere to hide, heck so many women came on to him and could have raped him (No one can stop Buffy if she decided to jump his bones after he asked her not to) Jenny and Joyce, older women who kept touching him without consent. Heck Drusilla made him shake with horror as she tried to turn him to a vampire. Xander in this episode was subjected to a lot crap that womenusually get subjected too. Being touched and harassed without his consent. And most importantly, the narrative punishes Xander by turning every female in Sunnydale against him and striding to murder him. If Giles and Amy’s spell was a minute’s late, Xander would have been killed because of his actions. 2. Giles made it absolutely clear that Xander was an asshole for what he did and kicked him out of the library. He couldn’t even stand the sight of him. 3. Willow stopped talking to Xander after the spell was over. 4. Oz punched him in the face. 5. Angel tossed him from the top of the roof to the ground - which should have resulted to Xander breaking something in his body - and almost killed him to leave his dead body as a present to Buffy. How creepy is that. Basically, none of that would have happened had Xander not asked Amy to do the spell. Which means that this list of punishments was done to Xander because of his actions! The fans would completely brush all that aside because of two scenes in the episode: a. Buffy thanking Xander for not raping her. Personally, I think this reflects badly on Xander rather than showing him as a good person. It’s insulting to Xander. Did Buffy seriously expect her best friend to rape her??? What does that say about their friendship? b. Cordelia thinking the spell was romantic. Interestingly enough, Cordelia thinking that “Xander putting a spell on her to make her fall in love with him” as romantic whereas is she knew the truth that he only did it to “break up with her and make her suffer the same way he did” - the male version of Anya’s vengeance demon ways (Xander would make a scary vengeance demon due to the way he holds a grudge like nobody’s business and how he judges others.) Anyway, back to Cordelia. I seriously believe that Cordelia’s reaction is true to her character at that time in the story. Sort of a Midsummer Night’s Dream romantic. I also think that the show at this time was still maturing - for example, Buffy’s outfits in the first and second seasons were clearly for the male gaze. Notice how later in the series, she starts dressing differently and in more practical yet stylish clothes for slaying. Now if Cordelia knew about Xander’s real intentions: “The point is I want her to want me. Desperately. So I can break up with *her*and subject her to the same hell she’s been puttin’ *me* through.” - which admittedly are far less disgusting than taking away Cordelia’s agency so she could love him forever and clearly an impulsive reaction to being dumped and mocked by others for it - she wouldn’t have thought it was romantic. Hell, she probably wouldn’t have gone out with him eventually. IMPORTANT: I do wish that Cordelia didn’t think it was romantic and delayed wanting to be with him after a few episodes. And I do think that Xander did a bad thing here and deservedly got punished and we should have seen him and Willow reconciling in the next episode. I was just explaining the events from the character’s POV. Xander learns his lesson: Lover’s Walk. Being venomously disapproving of Willow’s de-lusting spell “Are you nuts, or have you forgotten that I tend to have bad luck with these sorts of spells? ….. So, do you really need to resort to the black arts to keep our hormones in check? …. I’m gonna get the lights, (walks) clean this place up before they get here (clicks them on) and start asking questions.” All very true but remember he does think back to this fondly when we get to Spoiler Him in s7 Yeah, we accept a lot of injuries from the Scoobs which should kill them and arguably even more from AI. I think Buffy is impressed with Xander's moral fortitude, she knows he's always been crazy about her but he resisted. On 29/08/2018 at 5:33 PM, lembergwatcher said: As much as I find the idea of Buffy being locked up naked in the basement with Oz rather attractive, still there's something that bothers me: Why the heck is the whole freakin' Sunnydale High all of a sudden starts gossiping about X/C breakup like it's some freakin' event of the month? Buffy assaulted the teacher in front of a class in Innocence and no one gave a damn! Why not listen to Cordelia on those few occassions when she says the right thing? 3. What's with the writers' habit of portraying their characters as some small-minded fools? You want the Hellmouth to be working for ya, Xander? Why waste time with the stupid love spells? If they treated yours truly the way they treated Xander, I would... I dunno... try to find Ethan Rayne and beg him to teach me some good old chaos magic. Reveal hidden contents At least Jonathan could think, you know, globally, and knew some better (in a twisted sense) ways to use magic. 4. And who are you trying to fool, Marti Noxon, by making it look like magic is the only way for someone like Xander to attract girls? How about certain Willow Rosenberg, who was head over heels for the boy back when he was a treasurer for "We Hate Cordelia Club". I might voice an unpopular opinion, but the thing is I find the idea of Xander dating Amy pretty good. I guess they had much more in common than we tend to believe. Since Cordy couldn't decide what she wanted more: keeping her royal status in SH or dating Xander, and Willow was heavily into guitarist of some average pop rock band, Amy could be some kinda alternative. And then... Willow with an axe... I totally agree with your description of Cordelia, Will, but... Hide contents But after abominable season 6 and all of that Dark Willow-shtick many in the fandom started looking back to find the proof to a claim that Willow was "evil" all along. Someone cite that "Willow with an axe" moment - despite knowing that Willow was under a spell (i. e. not in her right mind) and killing someone wasn't in her character (there were no other signs of little Wicca's "violent" nature). Not a big fun of this episode as a whole, though many people view it as almost groundbreaking or something. Hide contents More than four years later they'll try to recreate the mood of an early Buffy (including almost ripping off BB&B in S.07.E.06 Him Reveal hidden contents Considering that Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered first aired on Feb. 10 (but events took place on Valentine Day), 1998, and Passion premiered on Feb. 24, it took from ten days to two weeks for Willow to "bury the hatchet" and start talking to Xander again. I don't buy that, we also have kitchen knife wielding Joyce remember? (who also used an axe in her time), I think we can just put it down to the spell Link to comment
Halting Hex January 2, 2019 Share January 2, 2019 (edited) So how did Harmony and the Cordettes find out about Xordelia, anyhow? Did Willow tell them? Did Oz? Seems unlikely, IMO. Were they spotted in CC's car in Lovers' Lane? Not in Phases, they weren't, and Cordelia seems skilled at keeping her rendezs-vous out of the spotlight (cf her and Kevin snogging on school grounds at the start of Prophecy Girl) I grant you that there's a cut scene in Surprise where Cordelia almost sends up a trial balloon (which is how Mercedes McNab gets guest credit when she's not in the aired 2.13 at all): Quote (Cordy and HARMONY stroll to class. See XANDER and WILLOW hanging in the LOUNGE in the BG.) CORDELIA (too casual): Hello. I'm having, like, a totally random thought... (then) Xander Harris. Is it just me, or does his shirt almost match his pants? (Harmony looks. Shrugs.) HARMONY: Almost. Why do I care? CORDELIA: Well. If you look at him a certain way - is he vaguely.., cute? (THEIR POV As XANDER does some spazzy dance for Willow's amusement. RESUME) HARMONY: Oh yeah. I'm hot for s*** boy. Are you tripping, Cordelia? (A beat. Cordelia laughs a little too loud.) CORDELIA: You thought I was serious? Please. I was just testing you! Ha. (sighs) I'm hot for s*** boy. Good one. But I hesitate to rely entirely on cut scenes for canon and anyway, who's to say Harmony can pick up on even such an obvious clue? This is the girl who needed confirmation that the "C" on Cordelia's cupcakes in Out of Mind, Out of Sight stood for "Cordelia", after all. "No, 'C' for 'Wilma', little brain." I mean, I don't really 'C' Harmony as such a Sherlock, I'm just saying. Edited January 2, 2019 by Halting Hex Link to comment
Loandbehold January 2, 2019 Share January 2, 2019 One of the Cordettes (or some random schmo) might have spotted Cody and Xander leaving a broom closet. That seemed to be a not infrequent thing. The more times, the better the opportunity they'd be spotted and word would get around the school. Link to comment
Halting Hex January 3, 2019 Share January 3, 2019 True, I mentioned in the What's My Line, Part 2 topic that they really should have closed that classroom door, given the number of extras passing by in the background. It's just that I prefer to see plot developments such as this be based on the aired narrative, rather than handwaved into existence. But JMO. Perhaps somebody spotted CC and Willow chatting like old buddies at the Bronze in Phases, put 2+2 together and got Xander? (Or overheard Cordelia's specific complaint about Xander not paying her enough attention, but you'd have to be eavesdropping to hear that over the band, and it didn't seem as though anyone was doing that.) Alternatively, there's Wiillow and Cordy working out their Xander-issues by beating him up while arguing during the self-defense training in gym class. Which was certainly public enough, but puts us back in "cut scene" territory… Link to comment
Halting Hex April 13, 2022 Share April 13, 2022 (edited) So, it's been a while since I read any of Jenny Trout's reviews, and I've never read this one. And given her disdain for Xander (ooh, he's "a textbook Nice Guy"! The horrors!) and the fact that a lot of reviewers think he crosses a line here ("What, you want credit for not raping your friends?", etc.), I was a bit wary about going in here. But, while Jenny might be saving her venom for the end, so far she's hasn't gone after Xander. She has nailed her other "favorite" character, Joyce, calling out her inability to see the threat in Angel sending a black box of flowers and a note reading "soon". (Especially since, as Passion reveals, Joyce has no idea that Buffy is dating anyone.). But I do think that's only partly "Joyce is a horrible parent" and at least a little bit "Joyce isn't too smart, honestly", so I'll cut her a little slack. But the best zinger is on Xander's behalf, directed at Ms. Buffy herself: Quote Xander comes in and suggests they use him as bait, not to catch Angel, just to fish. Buffy heard about Xander’s breakup with Cordelia, and it’s like, fuck, I hope you heard about it, because it happened two days ago and he’s one of your best friends, so why haven’t you talked to him yet if you heard he got dumped? I get this whole Angelus thing is taking up a lot of time, but damn. Damn. Good point. Even moreso because February 14th, 1998 was a Saturday, so the dance was most likely on a Friday or Saturday. (We see various characters at school in Act I, but there's no firm indication that the dance is that same night, so it could be a Saturday.) And here it is, Tuesday. That's a long time for Buffy to be out of the loop, I'd agree. (We don't know if Willow found out, but we don't know she didn't, either. Whereas even if you think there'd be no reason for Buffy to call Xander on Sunday and see if Cordelia liked the outfit Buffy picked out for him, a few minutes' chat on Monday would not be overdoing things, I wouldn't think.) And here's a plot note that I've somehow missed in twenty-four years of watching this episode. (And fairly often, too.) Jenny talks about the "Got the Love" slo-mo walk and notes that: Quote All of the girls, and even some guys, start following Xander like hungry lions stalking a sick zebra. Other guys are pissed off, because I’m assuming more than one dude has gotten dumped today because of this love spell. Wow, duh! We've been following the impact on our speaking characters and their relationships (Willow/Oz, Giles/Jenny, Angel/Drusilla and Buffy), but I didn't stop to think that some of those extras are in relationships, too. Perhaps the girl with the top knot who winks at Xander has actually been dating Dan (the recurring Asian extra) and she just dumped him? And Dan is like "first Buffy ruins my police seminar [What's My Line, Part II] and then she disrupts computer class [Innocence] and now her pal Harris steals Bitsy from me! I hate that girl…" It's obvious once someone mentions it. But I still don't know how I missed it. Jenny also wishes that Oz's sucker-punch of Xander could have been used for character development: Quote Like, he’s a werewolf. I kind of would have liked to see more instances like this where he’s driven to stereotypical alphole behavior because he’s a werewolf, and he’s totally confused about that and finds himself acting on impulses that he finds odd but that many men feel are totally appropriate. I get the point, but I'm not sure I want the focus taken off of Xander that way. Buffy's stress about Angel is fine, because that's our main plot, but this is an X/C episode, and having deep exploration of Oz's anxieties might swerve things a bit. Much though I think Oz could use more depth. But JMO. Quote Rat!Buffy has found her way down to the boiler room. I’m going to assume she’s just following her ratty nose down to the Hellmouth, to slay some vampire rats. LMAO! "One rat in all the world, born with the strength and skill…" Jenny is, however, upset that Buffy talks about remembering her experience whereas Xander (with help from Giles) got away with that "amnesia" excuse in The Pack. Well, yeah, but… • Buffy really wouldn't be able to claim amnesia, since Willow (and Jenny and Amy) would probably make it clear they had their memories. It's not Xander's fault that Buffy has fewer options than he did. • Giles didn't back Xander up because he was protecting his "bro"; he reasoned that putting the experience behind them a.s.a.p. would be the best thing for the group dynamic, and Buffy's mental health in particular. Which is pretty important. Whereas, if Xander can't stand to be around Buffy knowing it was his fault she nearly raped him and runs off into the night, so what? Okay, so Xander has saved the world on multiple occasions and he's saved life of everybody in the cast (except Angel) at least once, but still. Buffy's the Slayer; he isn't. In theory, at least, he's not as essential as she is. Sometimes Buffy reaps the benefits of being a title character, and sometimes she feels the burdens. She seems to be getting over it, at least. So, not nearly as anti-Xander as I was worried about. Huh. Edited April 13, 2022 by Halting Hex Link to comment
Halting Hex May 22, 2022 Share May 22, 2022 (edited) One of the pleasures of watching reactions to Surprise is how nervous reactors get when Jenny is "taking Buffy for a ride", since we just saw Uncle Enyos yell at Jenny and her promise to obey. What nefarious plot is Jenny up to? Is she going to break up Buffy and Angel by leading Buffy into a trap? (Is she going to take her to Lovers' Lane and show her a live tongue is better than a cold prong?) Nah, fooled ya! She's just taking Buffy to the surprise party! It was actually Giles's idea! And they do it again here… Quote CATHERINE-IN-AMY: Accept this sacrifice of Cordelia —Witch Quote AMY-IN-AMY: …the heart of Xander's beloved. You see where they're going, right? Amy casts the spell…but it doesn't work on Cordelia. But Buffy seems to be seeing Xander in a new light…and we remember that Amy didn't actually say a name…and that Xander hinted in the teaser that he still had feelings for Buffy, that he might leave Cordelia to be with her…and for a second, we wonder if discovering that Buffy is "Xander's beloved" is what this episode is all about. And then, of course, it turns out that Amy is under the spell, and Katie from history class and so on. But that was a cute little fake-out for a few moments. Hey, since it turns out that Cordelia was the target of the spell (she was protected by karma or Amy invoking the wrong goddess or whatever), does that mean that she really is "Xander's Beloved"? Is Xander in love with Cordelia, after all? Gonna make it confusing when he declares his love for Willow in the finale, then. Huh. Edited May 24, 2022 by Halting Hex Moved an apostrophe because there's usually more than one Lover at Lovers' Lane. "Lover's Lane" is usually one's bedroom or the shower. Er, or so I've heard… Link to comment
lembergwatcher May 23, 2022 Share May 23, 2022 22 hours ago, Halting Hex said: But Buffy seems to be seeing Xander in a new light…and we remember that Amy didn't actually say a name…and that Xander hinted in the teaser that he still had feelings for Buffy, that he might leave Cordelia to be with her…and for a second, we wonder if discovering that Buffy is "Xander's beloved" is what this episode is all about. Judging from the turn of events in this episode we might as well come to conclusion that every other woman in Sunnydale, who is not Cordelia (including Amy), turns out to be "Xander's beloved". The guy seems to be the biggest womanizer not only in Buffyverse, but in the history of television. Spoiler But that's still much better than ending up as Anya's sex toy... Link to comment
Halting Hex August 13, 2023 Share August 13, 2023 Well, as I've noted, the idea that we may be discovering that Xander is in love with Buffy is only meant to be a red herring, after all. There's no need to apply it to the rest of the episode once it has proven false. Xander's only been the same room as Drusilla for a few seconds, after all. (And clearly the gen-pop's reactions to Xander are specifically not intended to show a uniform level of pre-existing Xander-lust. [And not only because the lunch lady is the only one wearing a uniform, lol.] Jenny shows in the episode that she is clearly in love with Giles, and suffering from his rejection. [One hopes this won't be an issue all season long. Poor Jenny!] And Buffy clearly isn't 100% over Angel yet. [Alas.]) Also, Buffy specifically notes that Willow's feelings are different from those of any passing Katie: Quote BUFFY: She loved you even before you invoked the Great Roofie Spirit Aww. Say, is this the first time that it has been specified that Willow LOVES Xander? It's certainly been implied, from Teacher's Pet to The Pack to I Robot, You Catfish and Xander has said that he loves Willow twice (in the sign language at the end of The Pack and in Inca Mummy Girl), albeit not in the "I think about her lips so much" kind of way…but is this a new level of canon for Willow-loves-Xander? Aw, again. (Better shoot your shot then, Xan. Wouldn't want Hairball the Guitarist to start "burying his bone", ahem. As nice of a consolation prize as CC may be.) Speaking of Willow and love…well, almost…here's the sign Alyson held up on KTLA (the WB affiliate in Los Angeles)'s morning show the day after SMG put her "I miss you, Aly" sign at the end of her Saturday Night Live hosting gig that week So, Alyson was up at 1.00 AM Pacific Time (SNL airs on delay for the West Coast), saw Sarah's sign, and had time to make sign of her own, get some sleep, get to the KTLA studios, go through make-up and go on air, in a grand total of 6.52 from sign to sign? Impressive! (Or "cocaine is a wonderful drug", possibly. But I haven't heard that about Aly.) Link to comment
lembergwatcher August 16, 2023 Share August 16, 2023 On 8/13/2023 at 9:55 PM, Halting Hex said: Willow LOVES Xander? It's certainly been implied, from Teacher's Pet to The Pack to I Robot, You Catfish and Xander has said that he loves Willow twice (in the sign language at the end of The Pack and in Inca Mummy Girl), albeit not in the "I think about her lips so much" kind of way…but is this a new level of canon for Willow-loves-Xander? Aw, again. But the canon says Oz was Willow's first love... On 8/13/2023 at 9:55 PM, Halting Hex said: Or "cocaine is a wonderful drug", possibly. But I haven't heard that about Aly. I guess the trinity of 'sex, drugs & rock and roll' was a common thing on Buffy's set. And especially in the writing room... Link to comment
Halting Hex August 16, 2023 Share August 16, 2023 No, Oz is Willow's first boyfriend. Last episode was her first kiss. But we just had Buffy tell Xander that Willow's "I love you so much!" here was authentic, that Willow's feelings preceded this episode's wackiness. Willow hasn't said anything anywhere near like that about Oz to date. (The closest we've gotten thus far is "He's nice. I like his hands" and "We have a lot of fun" and "I like you. You're nice and you're funny and you don't smoke." All good things. But not a mention of love. Oz says he's in love ("A werewolf in love"), so it would suck for him if that's not reciprocated, but let's not jump the gun yet. Current Willow-in-Love stats: That Harris Kid, 1 Boyfriend with a Hairy Back, 0 Current standings, I said. For all we know, Willow could start singing her love for Oz from the rooftops, starting with next episode. Spoiler Or she could never say it, while going on to profess her love for Xander (The Zeppo), Buffy (The Body), and for all I know, perhaps even Tara. However, given her experience in Nightmares , I don't know if it's such a great idea to wait for singing specifically. Link to comment
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