Jason Quartermaine Morgan: Patron Saint of Not Blinking

[KerleyQ]

I don't blame them for wanting to do something different - they did that story in '05. The problem is that they didn't do anything else

 

But they really only half-assed it in '05, because SBu was never going to commit to really playing it.  They could have done it right this time.  Or they could have done something else that would have been interesting to watch.  This is just so blah.  Even the reunion of the greatest love story ever told is just "welp, you were in peril, so I guess I could get to know you or something," after he moseyed through a burning house like he was trying to figure out where he left his phone instead of frantically searching for someone he cares about.  

[dubbel zout]

Even the reunion of the greatest love story ever told is just "welp, you were in peril, so I guess I could get to know you or something," after he moseyed through a burning house like he was trying to figure out where he left his phone instead of frantically searching for someone he cares about.

 

Which will never stop annoying me. It takes Sam nearly getting blown up for Jason to deign to make an effort. What a peach.

[KerleyQ]

I'll be really disappointed if the two of them go to just "we're in love and it's all peachy" without examining any of the very real issues they've had in the past, and without figuring out what he's going to do with regard to the mob.  Yeah, the kidnapping accomplice was cool with his mob life when it was the two of them.  But, she's had time to live, as a mother, without the constant threat of the mob over their heads, and she's been through believing her son was dead and then his cancer.  She should want better by now.  It would be regressive for her to not want to know where he stands with the mob now.  

 

Also, I think she needs to be honest with him as to exactly what their issues were in the past, even the stuff that doesn't make one or both of them look particularly good.  Better to get it all out there now then to let it trickle in in bits and pieces over time when someone says something he doesn't get and he finds out "oh, yeah, about that, you didn't want me to have Danny because we feared he might be Franco's via rape," or "oh, yeah, there was that time I slept with my stepfather, you slept with Liz, you two had Jake, I watched him get kidnapped, and you threatened to kill me," "but, it's all good now!"  

[mybabyaidan]

Jason didn't just all of a sudden decide to try with Sam because she almost died though....even as far back as the Gala he said they would just be together and see what happened.  And since then, he asked her for coffee, they spent NYE together and almost kissed, and when he had the rain dance memory he wanted her to stay with him and help him.  So it's been developing for a while.  Her almost dying just helped it along a bit. 

[dubbel zout]

We haven't seen much of it onscreen. That's probably why it felt a little out of the blue to me. Way to go, Show!

[ulkis]

I don't think he felt bad, specifically, about Michael missing out on being a Q. But, I do think that he always felt he had to hang in there and keep an eye on Michael as he was raised by Carly and Sonny. I also don't think he would have remained all BFF with Carly were it not for Michael. He would have stuck with Sonny, I think, but the lure of Carly was always Michael for him.

Yeah, I agree, although I don't know if he felt he HAD to per se, he just wanted to, despite the blah blah about "giving" Carly and Michael to Sonny.I do felt y hink he felt bad later on though. I do think if he actually thought there was any chance Michael was gonna get into a oma or something like that from the mob he would have never let Sonny raise him.

[KerleyQ]

Yeah, I agree, although I don't know if he felt he HAD to per se, he just wanted to, despite the blah blah about "giving" Carly and Michael to Sonny.I do felt y hink he felt bad later on though. I do think if he actually thought there was any chance Michael was gonna get into a oma or something like that from the mob he would have never let Sonny raise him.

 

I think that was Jason's biggest flaw (of many) - his complete inability to see exactly how dangerous the mob life would be for kids.  He and Sonny had this arrogance that they could just keep everyone safe, because they're just that awesome (and Sonny still has this arrogance, despite the numerous awful things that have happened to those around him).  I mean, he didn't need to predict a coma, exactly, but he should have been able to guess that, with all the enemies he and Sonny had, bad shit was going to happen to the people closest to them.  I'll give Jason credit for eventually figuring that out, which is why he agreed to Lucky being Jake's father, and why, when Sonny got involved with Emily, Jason wanted to be the one running the mob.  Although I only give him partial credit on that last one, because he and Sonny should both know by now that saying "oh, I'm not doing that any more" is not a get out of jail free card to no longer face danger from rival organizations.  I think, at various points in time, Jason has gotten the fact that it's not fair to innocent kids to choose this life for them (Sonny has NEVER gotten that), but his attitude towards adults, like Sam, evolved to "hey, they know the risks." 

[Oracle42]

 I think, at various points in time, Jason has gotten the fact that it's not fair to innocent kids to choose this life for them (Sonny has NEVER gotten that), but his attitude towards adults, like Sam, evolved to "hey, they know the risks." 

 

Anything else was an obnoxiously hypocritical stance given his attitude towards people making his choices for him. 

[HeatLifer]

Robin: I was so smart.

Jason Q: What? When?

Robin: When I was 14. And I picked you to be my very first love.

Jason Q: I was an idiot! I should have grabbed you when I had the chance.

<3 They were so adorbs.

[UYI]

Robin: I was so smart.

Jason Q: What? When?

Robin: When I was 14. And I picked you to be my very first love.

Jason Q: I was an idiot! I should have grabbed you when I had the chance.

<3 They were so adorbs.

 

Poor Keesha. ;) :P

[LeftPhalange]

I've never understood and still don't understand the criticism BM gets for not acting like Jason Morgan. He's not playing Jason Morgan, not really. The character he's playing might as well be someone completely new. TPTB won't let Jason get his memories back, and based on what I've seen and heard I think it's 100% likely that no one is giving BM any direction and is just letting twist in the wind. BM himself said that he wasn't sure how he was supposed to be playing things. Jason's lack of agency is infuriating but that has more to do with the writing than with BM. The only criticism I have for him is that sometimes his emotions, or lack thereof, aren't appropriate for the situation, but again, I'm not sure how much of the blame sure go to him and how much should go to the writers and FV. 

[peachmangosteen]

I agree. Although I do have to blame him for his often times mush mouthed way of speaking/not enunciating. 

[Oracle42]

I think at this point, they should just Swiss cheese his memory. They need to give him back some of who he was so he can interact with characters on the canvas with some familiarity but they can build stories about dealing with the things he doesn't remember coming back to bite him in the ass

This rage attack thing though? Should've been a problem when he woke up. His original brain damage made him unable to control his emotions/reactions. The control he developed was learned behavior

Edited April 16, 2016 by Oracle42

[ulkis]

I agree. Although I do have to blame him for his often times mush mouthed way of speaking/not enunciating.

Yeah. I don't think he plays things lazy or unemotionally. I hate the speaking through his teeth, the way he grits his teeth, the way he smiles like a 5 year old saying "cheese", his "buddies", his high-fives, his growling. Aaargh.

Edited April 16, 2016 by ulkis

[jsbt]

based on what I've seen and heard I think it's 100% likely that no one is giving BM any direction and is just letting twist in the wind. BM himself said that he wasn't sure how he was supposed to be playing things. Jason's lack of agency is infuriating but that has more to do with the writing than with BM. The only criticism I have for him is that sometimes his emotions, or lack thereof, aren't appropriate for the situation, but again, I'm not sure how much of the blame sure go to him and how much should go to the writers and FV. 

 

I agree with most of this post but I do think Miller actually plays considerably more emotion than Steve did with most people, where he would just check out nd stare. It's just a very different take on the character, and one that the writers are neither skilled nor interested enough in unpacking at length. If this Jason were to go back into therapy with Kevin - as I think the original post-accident Jason did in '95-'96? - there might be something to explore there, but this show doesn't care. Which is a shame because BM is talented. He can be lazy or fall back on tics like any big soap star but I think he's really tried here, with the very little they give him.

[testardo]

I watched BM on Y&R. He can certainly act sooo much more, and better than he is here . This show seems to ruin every actor on here.

[Badsamaritan]

I know BM can play bad cuz wasn't he some kinda psycho on AMC? And I've seen him in other things in addition to Y&R so I have to believe he's playing this role as he's been told to do. 

[peachmangosteen]

5 hours ago, Badsamaritan said:

I know BM can play bad cuz wasn't he some kinda psycho on AMC? And I've seen him in other things in addition to Y&R so I have to believe he's playing this role as he's been told to do. 

The only other thing I've seen him in was an episode of Justified and he was real rapey in it so yea he can play bad.

[Oracle42]

Jolly Jason Morgan still weirds me out a little but I'm fine if this is who he would've become without a need to develop the "Stone Cold" persona to deal with the fact that he was a mob enforcer.

However, I need the other characters to acknowledge that there's a difference in the character and let that just be something else that informs story

 

but I need the baby talk to stop - immediately and forever

Edited May 3, 2016 by Oracle42

[HeatLifer]

Jason describing The English Patient as "2 1/2 hours of Jax" is one of the funniest things he ever said on this show. Followed by "THIS IS A CHURCH!!!!!" at Michael's baptism.

[HeatLifer]

Jason to Robin: Maybe...I'll even pull you into pre-med and eventually we could open a practice together. 

OH NOES. JQ, IM SO SORRY. 

[HeatLifer]

Taking my Jason problem to this thread bc I don't want to clog the episode thread with my repetitiveness. 

To me, there are four different Jasons. JQ, JM ('96-'99), Stone Cold JM ('00s), and now Jake Doe/JM ('14-). 

The difference between most of the Jasons was ALWAYS acknowledged. Characters commented that JQ was different than JM, that the JM with Robin/Sonny initially was different than Stone Cold. So why can't it be pointed out that the Jake Doe/JM, aka BM's version, IS a different Jason? That he's goofier...more affectionate...he likes to make jokes and growl...he doesn't have an inclination to be in the mob and kill for Sonny. Whatever it is. It's just weird that the show wants to claim he's "exactly the same!" when he's not. 

[ulkis]

Quote

Also I'm confused.  Wasn't the whole point of the Borg nickname and complaints about Steve Burton's Jason is that he never had an expression and just seemed robotic and phoning in his performance for years?

My own complaints about the character weren't that - it was that he was a hitman who wore the same shirt everyday and yet he was never, never allowed to lose and no one was ever allowed to criticize him without being proven corrupt later on, or them eventually seeing the light and at the very least, they had to respect him, even if they didn't outright love him.

As for facial expressions, it's good he's got some, but there's a middle ground between no facial expressions and a grown man giving another grown man bunny ears. 

Personally, though, I never wanted any form of Jason back at all. I've always said a billion times BM should have been Lucky or Dillon, although I'm finally starting to re-think the Lucky angle. Lucky would not act this cheesy, but maybe if BM were playing Lucky he wouldn't go so cheesy. I feel like, he probably saw SB's Jason, and instinctively just went too far in the other direction.

[HeatLifer]

12 minutes ago, ulkis said:

it was that he was a hitman who wore the same shirt everyday and yet he was never, never allowed to lose and no one was ever allowed to criticize him without being proven corrupt later on, or them eventually seeing the light and at the very least, they had to respect him, even if they didn't outright love him.

This was also a major problem with the character, for sure. Jason was always the ultimate hypocrite. Jason could be "true to himself" and make choices and do what he wanted, but no one else had that luxury. It was his way or nothing at all. I can count on one hand the number of people he's ever apologized to or told he was wrong about something. 

[Melgaypet]

7 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

This was also a major problem with the character, for sure. Jason was always the ultimate hypocrite. Jason could be "true to himself" and make choices and do what he wanted, but no one else had that luxury. It was his way or nothing at all. I can count on one hand the number of people he's ever apologized to or told he was wrong about something. 

Those people also tended to be dead or dying at the time. Jason's remorse, when it comes, has always been the very definition of "too little, too late."

[HeatLifer]

29 minutes ago, Melgaypet said:

Those people also tended to be dead or dying at the time. Jason's remorse, when it comes, has always been the very definition of "too little, too late."

Oh, yeah. I think Robin was the only one who got to be breathing and coherent for the apologies. 

Jason basically behaved like an out of control teenager. He was right about everything...until something went wrong and there were consequences. He's basically the "This is fine..." meme come to life.

Edited September 3, 2016 by HeatLifer

[dubbel zout]

7 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

It's just weird that the show wants to claim he's "exactly the same!" when he's not. 

Yeah. It doesn't have to be done in an accusatory or negative way, just in a "The old Jason wouldn't have made a joke" way and the like. Monica, at the very least, should be able to say how glad she is that Jason doesn't seem deathly allergic to the Qs.

[KerleyQ]

Just adding my two cents here:  to me, the difference between who Jason was before Dock 'n Roll and after isn't just down to the actors bringing different energy levels.  BM could have still played the sanctimonious, never wrong, moral center of the show with some actual emotion to his portrayal, compared to SBu's complete lack of emotion (save a key scene here and there).  But this isn't just that he's not the blinking Borg.  He's giggly and goofy.  Someone, anyone, should mention it somehow.  Even if it's just Monica saying that it makes her happy to see him so relaxed and happy now.  Obviously, we're not going to have the writers dare write Sam saying something about how she enjoys how "fun" their time together is now, because we can't taint the twu wuv of the ages by his wife acknowledging that Jason was an insufferable pill who can't have been a barrel of laughs back then.  But, someone, anyone, should say something.  If Maxie had been involved in setting up their wedding, it would have been perfectly in character for her to comment on it.  She has no filter.  It's exactly the kind of thing she would say.  

[dubbel zout]

10 hours ago, KerleyQ said:

If Maxie had been involved in setting up their wedding, it would have been perfectly in character for her to comment on it.  She has no filter.  It's exactly the kind of thing she would say.  

Maxie is the perfect person to say something, but I wonder if the audience would take it seriously. Or would it be just another wacky Maxie thing to say? I think a nonjoking comment needs to be made about Jason.

Edited September 4, 2016 by dubbel zout

[KerleyQ]

5 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Maxie is the perfect person to say something, but I wonder if the audience would take it seriously. Or would it be just another wacky Maxie thing to say? I think a nonjoking comment needs to be made about Jason.

I think that the people who have already noticed it will be at least a little relieved that someone on screen said it (although, yes, it would be more fulfilling to have someone say it who would be taken more seriously).  The people who are just happily shipping BM and KeMo wont take it seriously coming from Maxie, Carly, Monica, Sam, Sonny, Michael, Spinelli, or anyone else.  

Unfortunately, I think that, with these writers, the best acknowledgment we can ever hope for is one that isn't meant to be taken seriously.  

[HeatLifer]

6 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Maxie is the perfect person to say something, but I wonder if the audience would take it seriously. Or would it be just another wacky Maxie thing to say? I think a nonjoking comment needs to be made about Jason.

I think it could be something JASON talks about, as well. Have him discuss how he feels he's changed and why. Maybe he feels lighter now that he doesn't have the responsibility of doing anything Sonny and Carly ask him to do. Maybe laughing and joking comes easier for some reason; maybe he feels more playful because of his sons. Maybe it's the fact that he "died" and got a second chance and wants to be a different person. 

I just wonder why the show just dropped Jason having any type of POV or reaction after he got his memories, or got some memories, back. I think it's unfortunate they dropped the angle that he was kinda put off by Jason Morgan at first, and basically had to be convinced by both Spin and Robin (and, again, the show acknowledged that the Jason she knew was different) that he was good.

[Oracle42]

1 hour ago, KerleyQ said:

I think that the people who have already noticed it will be at least a little relieved that someone on screen said it (although, yes, it would be more fulfilling to have someone say it who would be taken more seriously).  The people who are just happily shipping BM and KeMo wont take it seriously coming from Maxie, Carly, Monica, Sam, Sonny, Michael, Spinelli, or anyone else.  

Unfortunately, I think that, with these writers, the best acknowledgment we can ever hope for is one that isn't meant to be taken seriously.  

It should've been a discussion that Nik/Elizabeth had back when nobody recognized Jake as Jason. He's had amnesia before and he wasn't fundamentally different. It should've been another excuse for Liz to continue the lie. The differences should've been driving story this whole time

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, HeatLifer said:

I think it could be something JASON talks about, as well. Have him discuss how he feels he's changed and why.

Absolutely. We just need someone to say something and have it taken seriously.

39 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

It should've been another excuse for Liz to continue the lie.

I'm so glad it wasn't, because Liz doesn't need another mark against her regarding Jason.

[Oracle42]

I actually can't think of a way to make what she did worse. But I think if she could justify it as trying to keep him safe because he was completely different and couldn't handle being Sonny's enforcer (even if it was b*******) if she believed it, that's still better than lying to him because she wanted to have her turn with him.

[dubbel zout]

At the time, Jason was different, as he didn't remember his life before the accident. So in a weird and twisted way, Liz was trying to keep him safe. 

The bottom line is, she knew he was Jason and kept it a secret. I'm not sure a "better" reason mitigates that.

[Oracle42]

I don't think there's any way to actually justify what Liz did, but claiming that she was trying to protect him because he was different and vulnerable is better than straight up thirstin' for mobster peen which is all the justification RC gave her

Edited September 5, 2016 by Oracle42

[LeftPhalange]

2 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

I don't think there's any way to actually justify what Liz did, but claiming that she was trying to protect him because he was different and vulnerable is better than straight up thirstin' for mobster peen which is all the justification RC gave her

It would be hard to buy that excuse, at least to me. Keeping him out of the mob would just be a secondary benefit. Her main goal would always be to have him for herself. 

[Oracle42]

Oh, I think so too. But at least with the maternity test she was able to give reasons that weren't completely selfish and gross. I didn't really buy them; I don't believe she was thinking about Tea's happiness. I think at the end of the day, she both wanted Jason and wanted to keep his good opinion of her.

And I was fine with that because soap characters aren't supposed to be one-dimensional cartoon characters. Even when Sam was at her worst, she still got to be hurt and furious and lashing out at Jason - there was just more depth 

Edited September 5, 2016 by Oracle42
Edited because Helena

[LeftPhalange]

@Oracle42 I think Helena messed up your post.

[Oracle42]

DAMN HER and her insidious commercial breaks. 

Edited September 5, 2016 by Oracle42

[HeatLifer]

2 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

characters aren't supposed to be one-dimensional

Exactly. Liz was written to be completely one-note. She just wanted her "time" with Jason, as if timing was the only reason they were never able to make it work. And everyone else in town does crappy things and gets away with it, so she thought she could do. She had no other motivation. No GENUINE motivation. She barely showed guilt, she was just scared the whole time of getting caught. And I understand we all have different opinions on Liz, so not everyone would "buy" what she was selling, but I think it was important to show to the general audience that Liz cared about something other than her own wants and needs. Because Liz is not a villain. And that's how she was used.

This show trashed Liz and Jason so much that they can't even have a believable friendship at this point. As someone who is not even a fan, I still find myself acknowledging that because I know how I would feel if it was done to my faves.

[KerleyQ]

16 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

I actually can't think of a way to make what she did worse. But I think if she could justify it as trying to keep him safe because he was completely different and couldn't handle being Sonny's enforcer (even if it was b*******) if she believed it, that's still better than lying to him because she wanted to have her turn with him.

I loathe what they did to her, but, yeah, I'd feel like that would have mitigated it a touch - her having conversations with Laura, Nik, or Lucky about how he's safer being away from Sonny's world, both in that he wouldn't be taking on any dangerous jobs and because, with a new face and new personality, and the mob world believing he was dead, he would no longer have a target on his back.  Hell, Lucky, with all of his "darkness" could have potentially been torn on that idea, because he'd maybe appreciate the idea of not remembering all of the "darkness" BS. (And I think the "darkness" was a load of BS, but, since that's the angle he's working, it would have worked when he discussed that kind of motivation for Liz).  I still would have hated what they did with the character, but it would have been less obnoxious than "because it's my turn!"  And I could see that reasoning working if her finding out happened after Jake was back and they were married (which is when, imo, she should have found out the truth).  She could have reasoned that he finally had a chance to have a real relationship with Jake, without worrying about the danger the mob life presents.  Again, it still would have been shitty, because that ignores his other child, but it would have been a lot less character destruction (and would have made more narrative sense) than the shit we got.  

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, KerleyQ said:

And I could see that reasoning working if her finding out happened after Jake was back and they were married (which is when, imo, she should have found out the truth).

That's one of the biggest problems with Liz's part in the story, IMO. She found out way too soon that Jake was Jason, so no reason would be good enough to keep it a secret. The earliest she should have found out was the night before they were to be married.

Another big problem was Jason's reaction to everything. It was basically a big shrug, at least at the beginning when he hadn't gotten his memories back. His passivity drove me nuts. How am I supposed to care when he doesn't? 

So many emotional beats in this story were either ignored or totally rushed.

[melody16]

Liz finding out and keeping the lie was an easy way to have Jason choose Sam. They didn't have to explore the elephant in the room which was that Jason fell in love with Elizabeth even though his wife was in his face all the time and Sam had no real feelings for Jason before she knew he was Jason. This story had no depth. Just plot points. 

[Oracle42]

1 hour ago, melody16 said:

They didn't have to explore the elephant in the room which was that Jason fell in love with Elizabeth even though his wife was in his face all the time

Why? It's not like he's never been in love with Elizabeth before. He was an amnesiac. She was familiar and pretty and nice. He had nothing and she offered herself and a ready-made family. 

 

Quote

 and Sam had no real feelings for Jason before she knew he was Jason.

Should she have? She was in an (incredibly underdeveloped) relationship with someone else and her husband had been "dead" for two years. I didn't have an issue with the fact that they didn't magically sense each other - but the idea that Sam wouldn't immediately want her husband back once she knew he was alive? Does not match with any part of her personality or their history.

[dubbel zout]

Why couldn't Jason have just stayed dead?! Miller could have come on as someone else and romanced Sam away from Patrick. (JT would probably have left regardless.) He's terrible as Jason: The writing isn't giving him anything to work with, and the show isn't better with Jason's return.

[HeatLifer]

Um, nothing can beat the amazing chemistry and connection of Sam and Patrick. How dare you.

[melody16]

Of course she would want her husband back.  But I know it would bother me if my husband fell in love with someone else right in front of my face, even if I didn't know it was him or he knew it was me.  Yet that aspect was never explored because of course Sam would want Jason back no matter what, even if he is a completely different person with a different personality.  And because Liz lied, Jason never had to figure out if this version of himself fell in love with Elizabeth rather than Sam because the lie as a plot device made it super easy to rebuke Liz (and fall out of love with her) and go straight to Sam. Obviously we can all disagree but I thought the way Jasam was handled this go-round was incredibly shallow, and Jason is just a ping pong ball between love interests. 

14 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

Um, nothing can beat the amazing chemistry and connection of Sam and Patrick. How dare you.

Well, she is the most beautiful woman Patrick had ever seen!!

[LeftPhalange]

I never saw anything on screen that indicated Jakeson actually loved Liez. She (stupidly) took him into her home, took care of him, gave him attention, had sex with him, etc. With Liez he got an insta-family and didn't have to worry about pesky things like trying to find out his real identity. He could safely live inside the bubble she created for him and not have to think for himself. Jakeson had absolutely no ambition or desire to have his own life so I could see how he would find the situation appealing and decide to marry her because why not? He had a pretty sweet deal so why not settle down with her before another man could swoop in and mess everything up. 

[Oracle42]

My opinions on RC's inability to structure stories and unwillingness to write to character are fairly well documented. 

But RC wasn't writing a Liz/Jason love story. So, if it hadn't been the lie it would've been Liz becoming paranoid and unspooling because Jason was drawn to his old life when he regained his memories. She would've done increasingly desperate shit (like she did with Lucky) and she'd lose him anyway (like she did with Lucky).

It's unfortunate that no one has been allowed to mention the differences in Jason's personality; that should've been a story in its own right and I would've killed to see AJ's reaction to NuJason.