S01.E06: Up Is Down

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Abigail has to come to terms with her vulnerability in the aftermath of horrific events; Tally struggles with being supportive while also keeping a secret from her unit; Raelle takes extreme measures to connect with Scylla.

Promo:

Original air date: 4/22/20

Edited April 16, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Cranberry]

Four sneak peeks. They're doing a lot of promo for this show; I hope it's paying off. I have noticed a lot more activity on Tumblr lately (the show was even trending the other day), which is a good sign.

 

 

 

 

[Chick2Chic]

I know I am supposed to feel badly for Raelle regarding her grief about Scylla, I just feel annoyed. 

I thought it was a good ep overall. I am liking the storyline with Abigail not knowing how to process her grief & feelings of guilt. Good growth potential there. I like her bodyguard too. Enjoyed Tally too though her role was mostly supporting this ep.

Somehow I didn't suspect that Anacostia & co had snatched up Scylla. I thought Scylla had truly gone into hiding or back to the Spree temporarily.

 

[UNOSEZ]

4 minutes ago, Chick2Chic said:

I know I am supposed to feel badly for Raelle regarding her grief about Scylla, I just feel annoyed. 

I thought it was a good ep overall. I am liking the storyline with Abigail not knowing how to process her grief & feelings of guilt. Good growth potential there. I like her bodyguard too. Enjoyed Tally too though her role was mostly supporting this ep.

Somehow I didn't suspect that Anacostia & co had snatched up Scylla. I thought Scylla had truly gone into hiding or back to the Spree temporarily.

 

That caught me by surprise as well.. I had even started thinking that the necro teacher was shady.. As I didn't believe that scylla was dead either... Even before the previews for next week I thought that forgotten tribe dude and Abigail may interact more after their weird encounter in the hospital ward.. With her being such a gung ho soldier and him apparently not liking what has become of modern war witches.. He may help her thru this grief... I'll be watching to see how that plays out... Hope they come back to the spree trying to wipe out the bellweather line... Seems hardcore.. But the show didn't really sell the urgency other than cool ass bodyguard lady... Raelle is still selfish and because her grief is over the terrorist its annoying... She steals all the flying drug from her "sisters" and still they save her... Week after week she puts her needs first and still isn't called for it.. Hell they got Abigail singing her praises all the time now... Somebody last week said shes got Main Character Itis or something to that effect... And based of of the preview for next week they were righr as looks like she's more powerful and special.. And abigail vomes to her for help... Which I'm sure I won't enjoy... They gotta give tally a bit more to do... 

[Chick2Chic]

17 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

Raelle is still selfish and because her grief is over the terrorist its annoying... She steals all the flying drug from her "sisters" and still they save her... Week after week she puts her needs first and still isn't called for it.. Hell they got Abigail singing her praises all the time now

When Raelle started screaming in Anacostia's face... whew, no ma'am. Anacostia was nicer about it than I would have been in her shoes. 

[UNOSEZ]

1 minute ago, Chick2Chic said:

When Raelle started screaming in Anacostia's face... whew, no ma'am. Anacostia was nicer about it than I would have been in her shoes. 

That was a wig snatching moment if I ever seen one... Anacostia got some saint in her.. Cuz old girl would not be up in my grill.. Especially knowing what Ana does about scylla... Not even sure why they don't just say it.. But I guess they don't wanna spill the beans that a spree was on campus... I do wonder if they told mama bellweather... Prob not tho as her and Alder don't ever really see eye to eye... And admitting that they had a spree at her fams wedding close to her daughter... Still tho 18 dead bellweathers.. Wonder what their beef is

[Cranberry]

I thought the girls were all supportive and understanding of each other this week, which was nice to see. Both Abigail and Raelle lashed out at various people, but that's completely understandable as they were both dealing with grief, and no one's in their right mind while going through that.

I wonder what that "mushroom" thing in the wall was, and what consequence there will be from Raelle touching it. Her finger looked pretty weird there for a moment.

Tonight's After the Storm:

 

[UNOSEZ]

2 minutes ago, Cranberry said:

I wonder what that "mushroom" thing in the wall was, and what consequence there will be from Raelle touching it. Her finger looked pretty weird there for a moment.

Forgot about that as well it turned into a face at the end so maybe someone is in there... 

[UNOSEZ]

4 minutes ago, Cranberry said:

Both Abigail and Raelle lashed out at various people, but that's completely understandable as they were both dealing with grief, and no one's in their right mind while going through that.

True.. Tho not exactly the same.. Raelle snapped at her C.O didn't apologize or get reprimanded and then stole from her mates and put herself in harms way.. Which forced them to put themselves at risk both outside( as the spree are killing bellweathers left and right)  and inside ( as pvts who shouldn't be off base lest they get demerits) 

Whereas Abigail snapped at Tally who rightfully stood up for herself and Ability apologized and thanked her for the concern.. She also thanked both of em during the run when Raelle was being real supportive passing forward the advice the necro doctor gave her... 

I wonder if the necro doctor will revisit the "suicide" now that she knows Scylla is Spree

[Cranberry]

13 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

True.. Tho not exactly the same..

You're right. Everyone handles grief differently, and someone who recently lost her mother might handle losing someone else very close to her quite badly. I'm not harshly judging anyone for how they acted in this episode. 

...Except General Alder, who can screw right off with her faux concern and angling for those weaponizable seed sounds.

[TiffanyNichelle]

I really thought Tally was going to break down and tell Raelle about Scylla being Spree so I'm happy she held it together and kept it secret. It wouldn't go over well at all.

I get that Raelle is a rebel and she's got so much love for Scylla and she don't give a crap about anything but every time she gets in Anacostia's, her superior, face, I just want Anacostia to go off on her so hard. Even before this episode she's been doing that. Her and Scylla do that like Anacostia has a personal vendetta against them. I didn't see them having Scylla locked up. I figured her teacher lied about her being dead so they could find her with Raelle asking about it all the time.

Are the brother and sister the only ones left from that tribe? I wish they sister was awake to speak. And since I assume everyone is connected to the Spree (ahem, Raelle's mother) I wonder if they are also connected.

I wonder why the Spree are going after the Bellweathers only. Are they that dangerous?

[AnimeMania]

I thought that guy carried that girl across a desert to get to General Alder, then I see him and Abigail in the same room, was that desert in Massachusetts?

[Cranberry]

The location flashed up for a moment when the guy reached the gates:

He and his sister were then flown to Fort Salem because the best healers were there (but also because General Alder wants those songs, I expect).

[ursula]

I know chemistry is subjective and it’s never a good idea to insta-ship 2 people but... there was something about that scene with Abigail and the Tarim boy... They almost seemed... struck by each other, for a lack of better word? Which was such a weird reaction for both of them since the Tarim is a pacifist who low key despises and high key distrusts the witch army... and Abigail is the witch equivalent of the frat boy who thinks men are only there to look pretty. But that was one of the few times she smiled in this episode, and it was this surprised smile like seeing him had unexpectedly made her happy.

Well, maybe it’s just me. But if the writers/director didn’t want me to insta-ship them, they went about it the wrong way...

 

 

ETA: Where did the dead Bellweathers come from? They weren’t victims from the wedding because the General didn’t know them/assumed they were civilians. Also did anyone else notice that some of them were white? That was interesting.

Edited April 23, 2020 by ursula

[paulvdb]

It was mentioned that they were distant relatives whose Bellweather connection was apparently lost in time. And they apparently didn't know about their own witch heritage. But the Spree somehow figured out that they were Bellweathers.

[UNOSEZ]

2 hours ago, ursula said:

I know chemistry is subjective and it’s never a good idea to insta-ship 2 people but... there was something about that scene with Abigail and the Tarim boy... They almost seemed... struck by each other, for a lack of better word? Which was such a weird reaction for both of them since the Tarim is a pacifist who low key despises and high key distrusts the witch army... and Abigail is the witch equivalent of the frat boy who thinks men are only there to look pretty. But that was one of the few times she smiled in this episode, and it was this surprised smile like seeing him had unexpectedly made her happy.

Well, maybe it’s just me. But if the writers/director didn’t want me to insta-ship them, they went about it the wrong way...

 

 

ETA: Where did the dead Bellweathers come from? They weren’t victims from the wedding because the General didn’t know them/assumed they were civilians. Also did anyone else notice that some of them were white? That was interesting.

So I'm not alone then... Like I said upthread they had a moment and I do think the point is to rub off on each other a bit.. Cuz not only is she a less rapey frat boy.. She's also an in the marrow soldier... So worlds collide and all that... 

Well even on my mothers side of the fam we got white folks.. But they were from all over the country.. Killed the same time and way Charvel( damn auto correct keeps telling me that ain't a word.. Smh)  was killed so these boys and girls musta had bellweather fam that didn't fight or married muggles and what not so they were "diluted" and the mark wasn't identifiable necro doctor said they prob didn't even know they were witches 

4 hours ago, TiffanyNichelle said:

get that Raelle is a rebel and she's got so much love for Scylla and she don't give a crap about anything but every time she gets in Anacostia's, her superior, face, I just want Anacostia to go off on her so hard. Even before this episode she's been doing that

That's been driving me up a wall.. Cuz it re-inforces a lot of real world issues for me.. How she's allowed to be this way.. How her wrong doings are continually explained away by circumstances and her punishment has barely reached her and in fact put her squadmates in worse situations... I wanted to choke when Abigail was telling the bodyguard that she thought Raelle was a shitbird who was gonna drag the tempo down.. But really wasnt... Im like... "Hello right this moment she's stolen from you and tally and is putting herself and the squad in danger" so the girl who by most metrics should be the selfish slacker who doesnt need to work hard to get ahead but does.. who's just been beaten to a pulp.. And almost saw her mother killed in front of her... Who saw her cousin split open ear to ear.. and had her entore family targeted... She's gotta risk her standing as a pvt who's supposed to stay on the base to save Raelle??  What type of Mammy/Magical Helper Ne#&@ business is this?...  Ugh.. I gotta imagine there aren't a ton of blk and or female writers on the show and that the actors themselves aren't a part of the creative process cuz.. No way I'm the only person looking at all this sideways

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I know that Raelle was desperate to find Scylla after she vanished into thin air, but a private yelling at a CO and demanding that they search for her girlfriend? GURL.

Raelle has gotten away with so much with barely a slap on the wrist (the only punishment I remember her receiving was having to do night patrol once) but this was really over the line. You are a first year trainee so trying to tell upper management what they should be doing is ridiculous.

She has been reckless, disobedient, and selfish from the beginning but this was really bad. A bunch of people, including Abigail's cousin, were fucking murdered but you want everyone to focus their investigation on the girl you've been in love with for, like, a week because that's the best use of the military's resources. What a great idea! Let's promote you to general right away!

When it was revealed that they knew where Scylla was all along and she was being interrogated, I just had to laugh. I didn't think they would kill her off so soon so I wasn't surprised that they were trying to find out how and why the spree sent her.

Abigail's mom looked less than pleased with Alder's response so maybe she'll team up with someone from the council to undermine Alder or stage a coup!

I loved that Abigail's mom told Abigail to STFU about the bodyguard and that it was a done deal.

[UNOSEZ]

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Abigail's mom looked less than pleased with Alder's response so maybe she'll team up with someone from the council to undermine Alder or stage a coup

She doesnt seem particularly well liked.. That Indian Lady at that high council at the Hauge seemed ready to push back on everything.. Then you got the Asian Lady who's daughter died.. And Mama Bellweather and I assume other Bellweathers and if known and secret Bellweathers are being targeted.. And she's seeming to be slowplaying this... Coup may be likely... Hope not tho as that's a lot for a 1st season

And obvi as you can see from my previous posts I'm right there with you vis a vis Raelle

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Raelle Demands Answers About Scylla

 

[tennisgurl]

I get that Raelle is grieving and hurt and confused, but someone needs to tell her to stop taking it out on other people and to get her shit together. I cant believe she got in Anacostias face like that and was screaming at her and accusing her of not caring about Scylla, that is her superior officer! You cant do that and get no repercussions! Then she stole from Tally and Abigail and was lashing out at them, I can get that and it seems in character, but someone needed to tell her to cut that crap out and try to deal with her grief. Thats why I really liked the scene where Abigail yelled at Tally for trying to be there for her, and Tally told her not to be a jerk to her, even if she was grieving, and Abigail said she was sorry for snapping. I dont need Raelle has to stop flailing about starting stuff, but I do want someone to call her out. 

I liked Abigail dealing with her grief and trauma a lot more, she struggles so much with vulnerability and emotions, even in the face of something so awful. I also liked her new bodyguard, she seems cool and I liked their dynamic. She was professional, but also honest and not about to let Abigail be disrespectful. So was that something I saw between her the desert wind guy who brought his sister to the army for treatment? That could be interesting, something between hard ass emotions are for wimps soldier Abigail and the more nurturing and peaceful "songs are not for war" guy. 

I admit they did have me wondering what happened with Scylla and if she got away or even if the necro teacher was with The Spree and covering stuff, but she is actually in some black site being interrogated! Now maybe we will get some answers, at least to who Scylla is and what her deal is. 

So why are they trying to kill Bellweathers? Are they trying to destroy their family line by only killing witches of child bearing age?

[AnimeMania]

Do you think there is any connection between the name Scylla and the mycelium fungus?

[ursula]

 

4 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

Do you think there is any connection between the name Scylla and the mycelium fungus?

They are both literal scum?

[ursula]

I've seen theories that the attacks on the Bellweathers might not be Spree attacks but some third party, using the Spree as a copycat cover for their own agenda. I also liked the confirmation that the Spree attacks were on strictly civilians and the Bellweather wedding was the first non-Spree incident. 

It makes sense. The proliferation of balloons ---- scary, but none of those balloons actually popped. But it was convenient cover for Abigail's and her cousin's murders, both targeted for being Bellweathers of child-bearing age. Meanwhile there is this lost line of Bellweathers whom the General wasn't even aware of that were traced and also eliminated. 

5 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

Well even on my mothers side of the fam we got white folks.. But they were from all over the country.. Killed the same time and way Charvel( damn auto correct keeps telling me that ain't a word.. Smh)  was killed so these boys and girls musta had bellweather fam that didn't fight or married muggles and what not so they were "diluted" and the mark wasn't identifiable necro doctor said they prob didn't even know they were witches 

The "diluted" magic can indicates the witch gene is partial dominance, not full dominant. At least I hope so. I want to believe that some one is tracking the science of this and not just handwaving stuff.

I definitely know that white folks can occur into a family that started black (Wentworth Miller, Troian Bellisario anyone?) But it's just so rare for American media to acknowledge this. The usual excuse is that it would be too "confusing" for the audience but I suspect it has far more to do with miscegenation. 

Whatever the reason, I'm glad to have been spared the sight of an unbroken row of mutilated black bodies on slabs. 

Edited April 23, 2020 by ursula

[UNOSEZ]

47 minutes ago, ursula said:

folks can occur into a family that started black (Wentworth Miller, Troian Bellisario anyone?)

Troian especially cuz.. I mean her mom is darker than me and my mom we both got white dads and yet she still came out so very very different than I did.. Wild man genetics is a trip... I wonder if she's ever played a non-white person... Like Jen Beals almost always plays Bi-racial at least recently even tho I guess she could pass 

[Cranberry]

5 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Do you think there is any connection between the name Scylla and the mycelium fungus?

I assumed Scylla's name was a nod to this mythological figure.

[Scarlett45]

8 hours ago, ursula said:

The "diluted" magic can indicates the witch gene is partial dominance, not full dominant. At least I hope so. I want to believe that some one is tracking the science of this and not just handwaving stuff.

I could see that. I could see that witches procreating with magical men would guarantee magical children, and the most competent magical children. While one generation of a witch procreating with a non magical man might not have an effect on that generation’s magical ability, repeated pairings throughout the generations could do it. 
 

Also I’m sure you had witches who didn’t want their daughters to have to fight and sent their babies away to be raised as civilians- kept the pregnancy a secret or recorded it as a still birth. 

[AnimeMania]

Were "The Spree" always the enemy that the Witch Army was created to fight, if not, who was their first enemy?

[UNOSEZ]

2 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Were "The Spree" always the enemy that the Witch Army was created to fight, if not, who was their first enemy?

Going by what the show has said...whoever the Brits told them too... Odds are native Americans who weren't in love with invaders from Europe 

[ursula]

The Spree are a recent thing. The Wars are supposed to parallel the country’s history as shown in the alternate images of the crossing of the Delaware for example. The only exception is probably the Civil War as we’re told abolition across the country happened earlier. 🙄And Witch soldiers were like any other kind of military tech, when the US got their magic army, other countries started militarizing their witches, although it doesn’t necessarily follow that they had the equivalent of a Salem Accord. I imagine it ranged from witches being given equal rights (and lots of incentive to join the army) to mandatory drafting without the “golden cage” of the USA military.

Edited April 24, 2020 by ursula

[UNOSEZ]

But, if the trials were in what the 1600's in that part of what would be America if they put the witches to work right away... It'd be to hold off the people who wanted their land back.... 

I am interested if the show will kinda at least give some more in depth explanation of the history... How did witches deal with slavery.. Wouldn't they have had an effect on the industrial revolution... They all speak something callednthe mother tongue but where is it/they from... If witches existed all over at the same time.. How did they eventually codify.. If they did at all... What were the diffs by region...  Lotto world building questions I guess

[Grace19]

I really love this show even though Raelle and her girlfriend gets on my nerve. I hope tptb renews it.

[ursula]

4 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

I am interested if the show will kinda at least give some more in depth explanation of the history... How did witches deal with slavery.. Wouldn't they have had an effect on the industrial revolution...

Other than slavery being abolished earlier (probably because prejudices started being defined more along the lines of witch/non-witch than skin colour or religion), and society in general transforming to the matriarchal norms of witch society, and of course the map (what the heck is the Cession?) the creators haven't told us of any other major changes to the timeline. 

It should have affected the industrial revolution because a lot of the leaps in tech and medicine were influenced by wars (and sports, of all things) but I'm suspecting that they're going to handwave these things. No Zeppelins or steam punk. Although has anyone seen a cell phone on this show? I remember Tally called her mom with an old school pay phone. That could be on purpose.

[UNOSEZ]

3 minutes ago, ursula said:

Other than slavery being abolished earlier (probably because prejudices started being defined more along the lines of witch/non-witch than skin colour or religion), and society in general transforming to the matriarchal norms of witch society, and of course the map (what the heck is the Cession?) the creators haven't told us of any other major changes to the timeline. 

It should have affected the industrial revolution because a lot of the leaps in tech and medicine were influenced by wars (and sports, of all things) but I'm suspecting that they're going to handwave these things. No Zeppelins or steam punk. Although has anyone seen a cell phone on this show? I remember Tally called her mom with an old school pay phone. That could be on purpose.

Yeah I'd love to hear how our purtanical euro-centric patriarchy dealt with black and brown lady witches telling folks what to do... 

[Jadzia]

I was really confused in this episode why no one was telling Raelle about Scylla or talking about her being a traitor. Wouldn't they want to interrogate Raelle and see what she knew? And wouldn't her friend tell her, which might have explained where Scylla went?

[ursula]

2 minutes ago, Jadzia said:

I was really confused in this episode why no one was telling Raelle about Scylla or talking about her being a traitor. Wouldn't they want to interrogate Raelle and see what she knew? And wouldn't her friend tell her, which might have explained where Scylla went?

It didn't make sense to me either and I feel it's more for Doylist reasons, influencing how we the viewers should feel about it than what makes sense of the story. It makes us feel sympathy towards Scylla, and hate/anger towards the Army for her "unjust" imprisonment.

[Chick2Chic]

1 hour ago, ursula said:

It makes us feel sympathy towards Scylla, and hate/anger towards the Army for her "unjust" imprisonment.

I can see the writers going for that angle. Didn't work on me, though. While Scylla doesn't annoy me like Raelle does, I am also not sympathetic towards Scylla especially with her being an unrepentant murderer,

I also thought the Army, esp Anacostia, could see how unstable and myopic Raelle has been about Scylla being "missing" and figured they could just watch her to see if she knew more until they decided to go with telling her about Scylla being "dead."

[Cranberry]

Eliot Laurence mentioned in the first After the Storm that once she formed the first witch military, Alder's first project was to find more witches, and that she "found so much talent and power in the population of enslaved African-Americans that the early ranks of her military were largely black people." He said they were (and still are) the elite within the military. I'm sure that helped with abolishing slavery much earlier.

Laurence also said that although the military is a matriarchy, the world at large is not, but that having a strong female military to look to definitely helps (probably part of why the president is a woman in this world).

One of the girls mentioned in an interview that they don't have cell phones on the show. I checked the Joe's Pizza scenes to see if I could spot any civilians with them, but I didn't see any. Cell phones might just not be a thing at all.

The Chippewa Cession is a very large swath of land owned by Native Americans. In the pilot, the other girls were surprised that Raelle was from there because she's white. She said, "My family was there before it was the cession," but we haven't learned when or why it was formed. Hopefully we get to see some Native American witches in the future.

[ursula]

Thanks for the information @Cranberry.

Regarding the cession, it would have been easier to cast Raelle as a Native American, and definitely less offensive unless the creators don't realize how offensive her claim comes across. Tone-deafness is sadly a problem with non-diverse creator teams.

Edited April 24, 2020 by ursula

[UNOSEZ]

1 hour ago, ursula said:

Thanks for the information @Cranberry.

Regarding the cession, it would have been easier to cast Raelle as a Native American, and definitely less offensive unless the creators don't realize how offensive her claim comes across. Tone-deafness is sadly a problem with non-diverse creator teams.

I'll repeat the Kudos to @Cranberry that knowledge bomb was super interesting tho hasn't totally translated on screen yet.. But if the creator put that much thought maybe these first episodes/ season is just stage setting before exploring the world 

As for Raelle did I miss something.. She's not supposed to be Native American right.. Or at the least some kind of descendant right... From the surprise I'd just say maybe her ppl were early colonizers.. Cuz you are right her even kinda claiming a " Cherokee" great great etc.. While technically feasible would.. Well not sit well with me.. 

[Cranberry]

I definitely think she's supposed to be just white. This is the exact exchange from the pilot:

Abigail: Where are you from?
Raelle: Chippewa Cession, near Carolina.
Abigail: Lookin' pretty pale for Chippewa Cession.
Raelle: My family was there before it was the Cession. Where are you from?

We haven't learned anything about how long the Cession has existed or what led to it being formed.

I agree that it was an odd decision to have Raelle be from that area. Maybe the original book character was Native American and Eliot Laurence just didn't change her birthplace when he developed the TV show (although that's something he should have thought about). Maybe he has plans that make her hometown relevant in the future. He apparently had five books planned out, so it's possible.

[UNOSEZ]

58 minutes ago, Cranberry said:

I definitely think she's supposed to be just white. This is the exact exchange from the pilot:

Abigail: Where are you from?
Raelle: Chippewa Cession, near Carolina.
Abigail: Lookin' pretty pale for Chippewa Cession.
Raelle: My family was there before it was the Cession. Where are you from?

We haven't learned anything about how long the Cession has existed or what led to it being formed.

I agree that it was an odd decision to have Raelle be from that area. Maybe the original book character was Native American and Eliot Laurence just didn't change her birthplace when he developed the TV show (although that's something he should have thought about). Maybe he has plans that make her hometown relevant in the future. He apparently had five books planned out, so it's possible.

Nice... I'll wait it out and see.. 5 books us a pretty extensive show bible so hes def got a plan and freeform is pretty good at sticking with a show ( cept party of 5 reboot)  so I'm optimistic some of those questions we've all had and more will be addressed 

[HeySandyStrange]

So wait, this show is based on a book series? I did a Google search and found nothing. 

[Cranberry]

14 minutes ago, HeySandyStrange said:

So wait, this show is based on a book series? I did a Google search and found nothing. 

It was a proposed book series. Here's an interview where he mentions it:

Quote

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: How did you end up turning your love of witches into this series?

ELIOT LAURENCE: I walked in with this idea that struck me one day like lightning – oh my god, witches and military! Peanut butter and chocolate! – and I got a pitch together and they loved it. When I walked in there, it was the Hunger Games era and the Harry Potter era so the initial thought was: let’s do some books and then let’s do some movies. I got a book proposal together, which I had never done before. I got it on paper, I planned a bunch of books in the series, and we sent it around. Almost universally, people thought the idea was freaking crazy, it was so great, but it never sold. I could not get it out of my head. I had done so much world-building. I got busy with other projects, I created another show called Claws and we’re shooting our fourth season now. And then Kevin Messick, one of our EPs, called me one day and was like, "What if Motherland was a TV show?" And I was like, why didn’t I think of this first?

This one also talks about it:

Quote

Laurence originally thought his idea about a witch army might be fodder for a book. He wrote it in a diary form, with each young woman writing her story in alternate chapters. But he couldn’t sell it.

A few years ago, executive producer Kevin J. Messick realized the TV landscape had changed and Laurence’s concept would make a provocative series. The original book became the source material.

“He had five books in his head all mapped out so if this thing works, he’s loaded with great ideas for a while,” Messick said, calling Laurence a “genius.” “The idea of strong young women fighting for America who have magical powers and it’s dramatic — it feels weighty.”

He's mentioned it in a few video interviews, too. It sounds like he put a lot of work into the first book and the overall proposal and has a good understanding of how the world of the books/TV show works.

[HeySandyStrange]

1 hour ago, Cranberry said:

It was a proposed book series.

Wow, okay! Thanks, I got excited and ran to Google to look up the books lol.

[Scarlett45]

I got my Mom to watch and she’s digging the alternative history and matrilineal heritage angle. Rewatching with her, 2 things stuck out to me more:

1. General Adler pledged EVERY female child born of every witch for infinite generations but she, never continued the matriline AND she gave herself eternal life. Ummmmhmmmm. 
 

2. So many black women soldiers with varying natural hairstyles and appropriate neutral makeup for their profession- I appreciate it. 

[Cranberry]

Eliot Laurence actually addressed the Alder thing in the second After The Storm -- she's incapable of having children; something about unleashing the song (that was never supposed to be uttered) in Salem changed her body and made her infertile. She acted somewhat like a mother to Anacostia, who was one of the fosterlings (kids of witch soldiers who died).

It kind of sucks that we have to go to outside featurettes to know this stuff, but I do like that Laurence has done so much worldbuilding. Hopefully he gives us more info in the actual show as it goes on.

(Also, apparently Raelle's braids aren't just a Raelle thing; braids have some sort of meaning in witch culture and if you look closely, you'll see a lot of witches with them. I noticed that all four of the main girls had braids in the wedding ep, for example.)

[Kurenai240]

Raelle is not suppose to be Native American...

The cession is the land the American government gave back to Native Americans and each region is named after a tribe. 

Raelle's family being descendants of colonizers lived in the area, when the govt decided to give land back to the Native Americans Raelle's family never left.

Also the actress who plays Raelle also grew up on Native land and both her parents are half or part Native.

As for the other stuff mentioned Eliot stated that the early ranks of Alder's were the enslaved African Americans, as someone said that would have helped abolished slavery earlier and I believe Eliot did confirm that slavery was abolished early..

And yes that does mean that Alder and her army fought the British and French and whoever else, as stated by Eliot, other countries copied what America did, so we don't know when but Alder and her army most likely only fought human enemies for a short time before she had to start fighting her own kind from other countries. 

I also don't remember Alder's deal being that every female witch had to join the army, if I remember correctly it's every child born from a witch.

[Scarlett45]

13 hours ago, Cranberry said:

Eliot Laurence actually addressed the Alder thing in the second After The Storm -- she's incapable of having children; something about unleashing the song (that was never supposed to be uttered) in Salem changed her body and made her infertile. She acted somewhat like a mother to Anacostia, who was one of the fosterlings (kids of witch soldiers who died).

Gotcha. Of course as a childfree woman myself so I see nothing wrong with a woman (even a witch in this world) not having children. But pledging GENERATIONS of other people’s children FOREVER and then giving yourself eternal life?? The combination of the two pings my radar. Not saying Alder wasn’t a great solider- you don’t get to be where she is by not having intelligence or devotion or bravery, but just because you’re a great solider doesn’t mean you’re right 100% of the time. Or altruistic. 
 

The male witch who brought his sister to be healed must’ve been desperate given his tribes’ feelings regarding militarization. Some interesting story telling should come from that. 

[ursula]

 

3 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

But pledging GENERATIONS of other people’s children FOREVER and then giving yourself eternal life??

Is the unfairness here that Alder pledged other people's children or the unfairness that she had to make the Accords in the first place otherwise said generations of children would not exist? The Salem Accords was what stopped the genocide of witches. The real villains here are the people who created a world where witches could choose to die, or choose to be, essentially, slaves.

Ideally, the show/story should eventually move past the black/white concept of the Spree are evil witches while the military are good witches, and show us that both witches are fighting for a common goal - their survival, and they might need to join forces to face a common enemy.

[Scarlett45]

1 minute ago, ursula said:

 

Is the unfairness here that Alder pledged other people's children or the unfairness that she had to make the Accords in the first place otherwise said generations of children would not exist? The Salem Accords was what stopped the genocide of witches. The real villains here are the people who created a world where witches could choose to die, or choose to be, essentially, slaves.

Ideally, the show/story should eventually move past the black/white concept of the Spree are evil witches while the military are good witches, and show us that both witches are fighting for a common goal - their survival, and they might need to join forces to face a common enemy.

I can believe that at the time Adler did what she thought she had to do to protect her people. No doubt witches were being persecuted. But you know what they say about absolute power corrupting absolutely. 
 

I don’t think anyone watching this show assumes the military is full of benevolent witches who do no wrong and always work to save the innocent without a hidden agenda (I see Tally as a young woman who presents that ideal and we are supposed to see her as naive). Or that’s at least how I see it.
 

 One of the good things about this show is that the characters (And the situations they are in) have layers. 

But I agree they need to develop Scylla more so that we actually know why she’s making the choices she is, and it’s not just about “Hate” like Porter suggested.