House Baratheon: Furious

[Unknown poster]

Definetly agree that the show made Renly into a gay caricature, while also whitewashing him as much as any other character. Kind of an odd combination, when you think about it. When they stated on an "inside the episode" how clearly, Renly would be a far better King than Stannis, I got the sense that in some cases, they were just making it up as the go along. Renly, the definition of an empty suit, is suddenly being trumpeted as a savior? C'mon.

[Lady S.]

Definetly agree that the show made Renly into a gay caricature, while also whitewashing him as much as any other character. Kind of an odd combination, when you think about it. When they stated on an "inside the episode" how clearly, Renly would be a far better King than Stannis, I got the sense that in some cases, they were just making it up as the go along. Renly, the definition of an empty suit, is suddenly being trumpeted as a savior? C'mon.

Yeah, that was bullshit so his death could feel like a tragic waste and the audience would be wishing for the alliance of Kings Robb and Renly. But if he really thought it would take only a fortnight to defeat Tywin and take King's Landing, that only goes to further show what an idiot Renly was. And how ridiculous travel time is on this show.

[Ambrosefolly]

There is a theory that because their grandmother was a Targaryen, all the brothers inherited a strain of the madness, with Renly trying to usurp Stannis' claim to the throne instead of supporting him, or Stannis not being willing to give up the Riverlands and the North to Robb and his complete rigidity with rules. 

[Jazzy24]

Robert, Stannis, and Renly are all to blame for the state that their house is in.

[Pete Martell]

I found Book Renly more interesting and credible than Show Renly. And while Gethin Anthony is a perfectly fine actor he never really conveyed Renly's great charisma, nor did I thinkhe was handsome enough.

 

I thought he was handsome enough, but agree about the lack of charisma. He was a cipher in both book and show, but at least in the book his memory was kept alive with the right people (Loras), instead of a ridiculous situation where Loras forgets he ever existed and the show only brings up their relationship when Loras is on trial for being gay (and the show has such a negative portrayal of homosexuality that Renly is no longer even a man Loras loved - he was just another dick Loras got familiar with along the way), while Brienne has all these gushy happy memories of him that lead her to break her vows and hunt down his killer. When she was going on to Stannis all I kept thinking about was the cruel comments Renly made about Shireen in the book, and how unfortunate it was that he completely overshadowed her in terms of the storyline in Stannis' last episode.

[Ambrosefolly]

I found Book Renly more interesting and credible than Show Renly. And while Gethin Anthony is a perfectly fine actor he never really conveyed Renly's great charisma, nor did I thinkhe was handsome enough.

I wonder why Sam Heughan didn't get the role. I thought he looked more like the description of Renly. Maybe it is because he looked like the actor that played Loras.

[Paradigm14]

Their words should have been changed to "Ours is the Tantrum!"

[Avaleigh]

I thought he was handsome enough, but agree about the lack of charisma. He was a cipher in both book and show, but at least in the book his memory was kept alive with the right people (Loras), instead of a ridiculous situation where Loras forgets he ever existed and the show only brings up their relationship when Loras is on trial for being gay (and the show has such a negative portrayal of homosexuality that Renly is no longer even a man Loras loved - he was just another dick Loras got familiar with along the way), while Brienne has all these gushy happy memories of him that lead her to break her vows and hunt down his killer. When she was going on to Stannis all I kept thinking about was the cruel comments Renly made about Shireen in the book, and how unfortunate it was that he completely overshadowed her in terms of the storyline in Stannis' last episode.

Interesting, I didn't remember Renly having anything to say about Shireen. 

 

One thing that I recall being absent from Renly in the show was his sense of humor. Book Renly laughed a lot and I don't recall getting much of that on the show. I mainly remember him getting annoyed and disgusted with Robert during the making the 8 speech. I also remember the scene where he's freaking out over some guy losing his eye in a melee. IIRC book Renly was more like Littlefinger was in terms of spotting a joke during small council meetings and things like that. Renly thought it was hilarious that Joffrey got his ass handed to him by Arya when she threw Lion's Tooth in the Trident. 

 

I too thought that Renly would be more Handsome. Gendry was a lot better looking to me. 

[Constantinople]

One thing that I recall being absent from Renly in the show was his sense of humor.

Show Renly was a bit sarcastic in his sense of humor.

 

Pycelle : How forgetful of me. This belongs to you, now (puts down Hand of the King's badge on the table). Should we begin?

Ned: Without the King?

Renly: Winter may be coming, but I'm afraid the same cannot be said for my brother.

 

Lord Snow, S1E3

Littlefinger: 100 gold dragons on the Mountain.

Renly: I'll take that bet.

Littlefinger: Now what will I buy with 100 gold dragons? A dozen barrels of Dornish wine? Or a girl from the pleasure houses of Lys?

Renly: Or you could even buy a friend.

 

The Wolf & The Lion, S1E5

Renly (to Littlefinger): You can trust Brienne. Her loyalty comes without charge.

 

Garden of Bones, S2E4

 

and later in that episode

 

Renly: Whose banner is that?

Stannis: My own.

Renly: I suppose if we used the same one, the battle would be terribly confusing. Why is your stag on fire?

Melisandre: The King has taken for his sigil the fiery heart of the Lord of Light.

Renly: Ah, you must be this fire priestess we hear so much about. Mm, brother, now I understand why you found religion in your old age.

Stannis: Watch yourself, Renly.

Renly: No, no, I'm relieved. I never really believed you're a fanatic. Charmless, rigid, a bore, yes, but not a godly man.

Melisandre: You should kneel. He's the Lord's chosen, born amidst salt and smoke.

Renly: Born amidst salt and smoke? Is he a ham?

[Lady S.]

I wonder why Sam Heughan didn't get the role. I thought he looked more like the description of Renly. Maybe it is because he looked like the actor that played Loras.

He would have been a great Loras, but I picture someone like Henry Cavill for Renly or Robert Prime. 

 

I feel like Renly's joy and sense of humor was the only part of him the show got right.

 

And how can you forget "born amidst salt and smoke, is he a ham"?

[CletusMusashi]

No, Stannis was not a ham. That job was taken by Robert.

[Elkins]

I thought they really missed a trick in not having Renly present for the altercation that led to poor Lady's death in episode 2. He certainly would have made an impression on viewers if he'd been struggling to keep from bursting out laughing at Joffrey, the way he was in the books. ("Lion's Tooth!") Leaving him in King's Landing, on the other hand, meant that he had to share his introduction with a whole bunch of other brand new characters, which I think made him far less memorable to unsullied viewers. He wound up coming across as a bit of "generic untrustworthy courtier #2." It wasn't until quite late in the season that a couple of my housemates were consistently able to remember precisely who he was, or to understand how he slotted into the story in terms of his relationship to the other characters. (His angry outburst on the boar hunt was what finally seemed to cement his identity in their minds.) It's too bad, too, because it became apparent in season 2 that Gethin Anthony was actually capable of projecting quite a lot of charisma, once the script started allowing him to do so.

Edited June 18, 2015 by Elkins

[Avaleigh]

And how can you forget "born amidst salt and smoke, is he a ham"?

I didn't forget that, that was the main witty line that I remembered. 

 

This isn't something I noticed until doing this reread. Renly makes the members of the small council laugh as often as Littlefinger does. 

[Happy Harpy]

Except for the "ham" line, all that I remember about Renly was a big meh. I never saw him as anything but a puppet manipulated by the Tyrells. Brienne talking about Renly made me love him more than the actual Renly scenes.

 

He would have been a great Loras, but I picture someone like Henry Cavill for Renly or Robert Prime.

I'd still be mourning Renly after three seasons, then, because I'm that shallow.

 

But seriously, I feel that the casting did drop the ball when it comes to Renly. Nothing against G.Anthony who is a fine actor, but Renly, Robert and Gendry are supposed to be alike. I could imagine Robert looking like Gendry before booze and food took their toll (and although none of them are as tall as they're supposed to be). Show Renly, physically, didn't fit in for me. Maybe they went for brown eyes in order to stress his brotherhood to Stannis, who is the one he mostly interacted with on the show, but it didn't work for me either. Maybe the Renly/Gendry likeness will never play on the show. But still, when I read about Renly afterwards I was surprised that he didn't make such a lasting impression on me as the other Baratheons (not talking about abs here).

 

About House Baratheon...there are lots of dragonglass in Dragonstone. Humans are going to need lots and lots of dragonglass daggers, arrows, and any other kind of pointy things to fight the Others. There's one "known" blacksmith character standing, ok rowing but standing, who also happens, oh, to be the only Baratheon-blooded character standing. And there's a Baratheon vassal who knows of his existence. I'm just saying (that a Baratheon blacksmith could make his House very useful, and maybe crucial to everyone, even in case the Wheel is broken).

#TeamGoodBastards #DavosCousteauExploringTheNarrowSea #LetMeBelieveInFairytalesUntil6x01CrushesMySoul #YouKilledMyShireenLetMyGendryLive (training in case I ever get a Twitter account).

Edited June 18, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[Lady S.]

I didn't forget that, that was the main witty line that I remembered. 

 

This isn't something I noticed until doing this reread. Renly makes the members of the small council laugh as often as Littlefinger does.

He had good lines in s1 too, though. Constantinople listed the others, but there's also the infamous bj-sound FX added Renly/Loras scene. 

LORAS: So how did it end up? The Targaryen girl will die?

RENLY: It needs to be done, unpleasant as it is. Robert's rather tasteless about it. Every time he talks about killing her, I swear the table rises six inches.

LORAS: It's a shame he can't muster the same enthusiasm for his wife.

RENLY: He does have a deep, abiding lust for her money. You have to give it to the Lannisters -- they may be the most pompous, ponderous c**ts the gods ever suffered to walk the world, but they do have outrageous amounts of money.

His small council quipping was cut down for plot expediency, like how the show also cut

Ser Barry from the council

, but I think the Stannis/Renly farce of a parley was enough to establish his humor, since he had one zinger after another there.

[Constantinople]

I blame Robert, on top of being a lazy, incompetent, self-pitying drunk.

 

A lot of House Baratheon's problems could have been avoided if Robert had given Storm's End to Stannis instead of Renly.

 

I can understand giving Stannis the mission to conquer Dragonstone, but that's no reason to give it to Stannis permanently in place of Storm's End.  It's not as if Robert made Stannis Lord of the Iron Islands after Balon's failed rebellion.  Keep Stannis on Dragonstone for a year or two afterwards to make sure everything is under control, but then send him back to Storm's End.

 

Considering that Robert hates the Targaryens, granting Dragonstone to Stannis is an odd sort of honor.  Plus, if Robert hadn't given Renly Storm's End, Renly wouldn't have had a hope in hell of seizing the crown and probably wouldn't even have tried.

 

But I never felt it make sense for Robert to give Dragonstone to Stannis and Storm's End to Renly.  That always felt plot driven.

[Lady S.]

Omg, Kerry Ingram is handling her exit with good humor.

[Philbert]

 

they made his homosexuality into a joke and a fetish, as they have proceeded to do with every gay or bisexual man on this show since.

 

I didn't get that with Oberyn.

[mac123x]

Considering that Robert hates the Targaryens, granting Dragonstone to Stannis is an odd sort of honor.  Plus, if Robert hadn't given Renly Storm's End, Renly wouldn't have had a hope in hell of seizing the crown and probably wouldn't even have tried.

But I never felt it make sense for Robert to give Dragonstone to Stannis and Storm's End to Renly.  That always felt plot driven.

 

Robert was mad at Stannis for not catching Viserys and Dany before they could flee Dragonstone.  Not particularly fair, since they escaped due to weather (hence Danaerys Stormborn).  Robert was being petty when he gave Storms End to Renley as punishment for Stannis's "failure".

 

Giving Stannis Dragonstone sort of made sense at the time though.  It was traditionally the seat of the heir to the throne, and Stannis was Robert's heir until Joffrey was born.  I guess if Robert had lived longer, eventually Joffrey would have been given Dragonstone, and Stannis would have become Lord Without Portfolio.

[Avaleigh]

I can see Stannis even being unhappy in a scenario where Renly had been given Dragonstone because of the implications. Stannis probably thinks Renly should have been given some new seat in the Crownlands or maybe in the Stormlands.

Or maybe the books contradict this and Stannis says that he thinks Renly should have been given Dragonstone. I can't recall.

 

I hope Stannis doesn't end up being turned into a wight because of his body just being left out in the open. 

[Lady S.]

After thinking about it, I have to agree that Renly getting Storm's End was contrived, only because I feel like Jon Arryn would have stepped in to advise on the dynastic shit. He forced Bobby to take Cersei to wife, and I assume he helped arrange Stan's unhappy marriage too, just because I doubt Bob would have cared about that either. And however ungrateful he was about Stan's Rebellion heroics due to Viserys and Dany escaping, I no longer think his title was meant as a deliberate slight because Bobby didn't have to give him any title at all, he could have just ordered him to hold the island on the throne's behalf until he had a son to be the new Prince of Dragonstone. Or I guess making Stannis the Lord of DS instead of a Prince could have been the insult but no one ever brings that up in-universe.

[MadMouse]

I'd still be mourning Renly after three seasons, then, because I'm that shallow.

 

Nothing wrong with shallowness I'm still mourning Roxanne McKee who played Doreah.

[Constantinople]

Last night's episode, The Book of the Stranger, prompted me to give Shireen a title:

The UnUnBurnt