S15.E11: The Gambler

[Katy M]

Nobody seems to have started this yet and I need to vent.

[Katy M]

I liked this better than last week, but that was a pretty low bar.  

In the spirit of positivity I will go with what I liked first.  1. I liked the bartender.  She seemed cool.

2.  I liked the concept.

3. I liked that Sam lost.  It was kind of like The Curious Case.  The gambling stuff is not really his area of specialty but he's competent enough.

What I didn't like.

1. As soon as they started they knew they couldn't get luck without taking it from someone else.  Sure, that's true with money also, but luck is a bit different. Not cool, guys.  Especially when they were like, OK, sucks for cancer dude, let's go.

2. Jack.  Need I say more?  I mean, come on, they spent 23 years tracking down their first mother's killer for revenge.  Now, at least Sam seems fine with Jack.

3.  I thought they weren't allowed to kill Chuck because of balance.  Now, that's the plan again?  What's up with that?

[Frost]

I popped in and watched the goddess of luck mock Dean as beach reading and regard Sam as deep and mysterious and popped right back out again.  Was any of it worth watching?

[Aeryn13]

4 minutes ago, Frost said:

I popped in and watched the goddess of luck mock Dean as beach reading and regard Sam as deep and mysterious and popped right back out again.  Was any of it worth watching?

Nope. That about sums up the episode.

Oh, and Jackie-poo is back.

[Binns]

I enjoyed this a whole lot more than last week, that’s for sure. I found the parts with the boys pretty interesting and I like the idea that she didn’t give them luck per se but more restored the balance, at least that’s my interpretation. I wouldn’t have liked it if she super powered them. I don’t hate Jack like some do so am fine with him being back and pleased that the relationship between the four is good. Especially because Dean seemed so pleased. Team Free Will! 
 

I was pleasantly surprised that they kicked so much ass at pool. I figured that would have been one of the skills they lost. 

[BoxManLocke]

I thought it was alright.

Coming from the extremely shaky premise introduced by last week's epic crapfest, this episode was probably the best outcome possible.

Sam and Dean got their "luck" back, whatever that means. Glad we never spent much time wondering whatever the hell that meant.

Fortuna's little scheme was a pretty cool idea and it allowed each brother to shine. In the end they fought for the people rather than themselves, which is what I hoped for.

Jack's re-introduction was very awkward and it makes the first half of the season feel like a waste of time. Whatever. Let's see if they can salvage something with 9 episodes left.

Best line in the ep was definitely Dean's. "Lady (Bitch), I'm Tolstoy".

[Katy M]

Just now, Binns said:

I found the parts with the boys pretty interesting and I like the idea that she didn’t give them luck per se but more restored the balance, at least that’s my interpretation.

Yeah, I agree.  I'm glad she didn't give them superluck.

 

1 minute ago, Binns said:

I was pleasantly surprised that they kicked so much ass at pool. I figured that would have been one of the skills they lost. 

OTOH, it didn't make a lot of sense.  I mean, they couldn't pick a lock last week, but this week they could beat people at pool who had presumably been winning since they're still there.

1 minute ago, BoxManLocke said:

Fortuna's little scheme was a pretty cool idea and it allowed each brother to shine. In the end they fought for the people rather than themselves, which is what I hoped for.

Yes.  I definitely agree with that.  MOre than getting their luck back, they got their purpose back.

[Castiels Cat]

I missed the first 10 minutes. What happened between Jack and Billie. Anything else. How was he resurrected at full powers with soul. He has lost both.

11 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I liked this better than last week, but that was a pretty low bar.  

In the spirit of positivity I will go with what I liked first.  1. I liked the bartender.  She seemed cool.

2.  I liked the concept.

3. I liked that Sam lost.  It was kind of like The Curious Case.  The gambling stuff is not really his area of specialty but he's competent enough.

What I didn't like.

1. As soon as they started they knew they couldn't get luck without taking it from someone else.  Sure, that's true with money also, but luck is a bit different. Not cool, guys.  Especially when they were like, OK, sucks for cancer dude, let's go.

2. Jack.  Need I say more?  I mean, come on, they spent 23 years tracking down their first mother's killer for revenge.  Now, at least Sam seems fine with Jack.

3.  I thought they weren't allowed to kill Chuck because of balance.  Now, that's the plan again?  What's up with that?

Jack will replace Chuck. That's the difference I guess.

[Binns]

Just now, Katy M said:

Yeah, I agree.  I'm glad she didn't give them superluck.

 

OTOH, it didn't make a lot of sense.  I mean, they couldn't pick a lock last week, but this week they could beat people at pool who had presumably been winning since they're still there.

My thoughts on that are that Chuck was too stupid to take those skills away or didn’t think of them as essential hunting skills like lock picking and hand to hand. Though it is how they fed themselves many a time so...it doesn’t hold up too well. But I kind of think he just didn’t think of it. 

[Castiels Cat]

4 minutes ago, Binns said:

I enjoyed this a whole lot more than last week, that’s for sure. I found the parts with the boys pretty interesting and I like the idea that she didn’t give them luck per se but more restored the balance, at least that’s my interpretation. I wouldn’t have liked it if she super powered them. I don’t hate Jack like some do so am fine with him being back and pleased that the relationship between the four is good. Especially because Dean seemed so pleased. Team Free Will! 
 

I was pleasantly surprised that they kicked so much ass at pool. I figured that would have been one of the skills they lost. 

It was implied that she superpowered them because she referred to them as being heroic like in the old days and she wants them to win. It was implied she honored the deal to power them up like Hercules or Gilgamesh and release everyone despite Sam's lose because she was impressed and she is rooting for them.

[BoxManLocke]

Just now, Binns said:

My thoughts on that are that Chuck was too stupid to take those skills away or didn’t think of them as essential hunting skills like lock picking and hand to hand. Though it is how they fed themselves many a time so...it doesn’t hold up too well. But I kind of think he just didn’t think of it. 

 

Or it's just the usual massive difference between scripts that regularly occur since Dabb took over.

 

Unlike last week, this episode did it right by remembering that Sam and Dean have actual real life skills, and they can't be turned into useless bums just because Chuck snaps his fingers.

[Binns]

Just now, Castiels Cat said:

It was implied that she superpowered them because she referred to them as being heroic like in the old days and she wants them to win. It was implied she honored the deal to power them up like Hercules or Gilgamesh and release everyone despite Sam's lose because she was impressed and she is rooting for them.

But then at the end Dean noted that they were just back to normal, not super lucky. I guess we don’t know for sure but my takeaway was that she wrapped up shop and let everyone go bc she was impressed by them, I agree with you there, but I didn’t think she upgraded them. 

[Myrelle]

6 minutes ago, Frost said:

I popped in and watched the goddess of luck mock Dean as beach reading and regard Sam as deep and mysterious and popped right back out again.  Was any of it worth watching?

No.

It was the usual Dabbernatural and most of my comments will be in the B vs J thread concerning this one.

As for what happened, the brothers have their hero status back thanks to SuperSaintSam who "wins" even when he loses,  and in spite of Dean, who is a loser even when he wins.

And Cousin Oliver is back to eat grigori hearts so he can get strong enough to kill Chuck/God.

Another piece of garbage courtesy of Dabb and co.

Skip it. Definitely.

 

 

 

 

 

[Binns]

2 minutes ago, BoxManLocke said:

 

Or it's just the usual massive difference between scripts that regularly occur since Dabb took over.

 

Unlike last week, this episode did it right by remembering that Sam and Dean have actual real life skills, and they can't be turned into useless bums just because Chuck snaps his fingers.

I’m just going to pretend that last week didn’t happen. Whoever wrote this week cleaned that mess up pretty well. 

[Binns]

20 minutes ago, Frost said:

I popped in and watched the goddess of luck mock Dean as beach reading and regard Sam as deep and mysterious and popped right back out again.  Was any of it worth watching?

Personally I felt it was a decent episode considering what’s going on this season. I thought the brother stuff was well divided. They each kicker ass at different points.      

[Aeryn13]

Just now, Binns said:

Personally I felt it was a decent episode considering what’s going on this season. I thought the brother stuff was well divided. They each kicker ass at different points.      

Sam kicked ass when it counted. He was the only "hero". Dean was the beach read filler. That was in the dialogue. Dean lost even when he won. 

Oh and "you are better than me at everything". Of course, writers, we know.

[Katy M]

13 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

I missed the first 10 minutes. What happened between Jack and Billie. Anything else. How was he resurrected at full powers with soul. He has lost both.

Jack will replace Chuck. That's the difference I guess.

Well, the last time we saw Jack he went kill-crazy, so this is a great plan. Great, I say.

 

11 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

It was implied that she superpowered them because she referred to them as being heroic like in the old days and she wants them to win. It was implied she honored the deal to power them up like Hercules or Gilgamesh and release everyone despite Sam's lose because she was impressed and she is rooting for them.

But, Sam specifically said that they weren't playing for extra luck, but for the lives of everyone in the bar.  So, if she was just honoring the bet even though she won, there wouldn't be extra superpower.  

[Myrelle]

1 minute ago, Aeryn13 said:

Sam kicked ass when it counted. He was the only "hero". Dean was the beach read filler. That was in the dialogue. Dean lost even when he won. 

Oh and "you are better than me at everything". Of course, writers, we know.

Those lines said it all, didn't they?

 

[Bergamot]

3 minutes ago, Binns said:

I thought the brother stuff was well divided.

Funny, I must have missed the cheap shots that the writers took at Jared's character, to balance out the ones that were aimed at Jensen's character. Sure, everything was nice and even.

[Castiels Cat]

Just now, Katy M said:

Well, the last time we saw Jack he went kill-crazy, so this is a great plan. Great, I say.

 

But, Sam specifically said that they weren't playing for extra luck, but for the lives of everyone in the bar.  So, if she was just honoring the bet even though she won, there wouldn't be extra superpower.  

She also offered a double or nothing to be superheroes I thought. If they were just getting the luck that they walked in with that was bad luck.

[Katy M]

3 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Sam kicked ass when it counted. He was the only "hero". Dean was the beach read filler. That was in the dialogue. Dean lost even when he won. 

But, he technically didn't.  Dean never lost a game of pool.  Sam did.  And when it counted.  It was only because she decided to honor the lost bet (because of both of them) that they "won."

Just now, Castiels Cat said:

She also offered a double or nothing to be superheroes I thought. If they were just getting the luck that they walked in with that was bad luck.

Yes, she offered that.  But, Sam turned it down to get the lives of the bar people instead.

[Binns]

1 minute ago, Castiels Cat said:

She also offered a double or nothing to be superheroes I thought. If they were just getting the luck that they walked in with that was bad luck.

I thought she was giving them their luck that they earned with the old dude (and his accumulated luck) which would set them back to “normal” but it wasn’t super clear. 

[Castiels Cat]

1 minute ago, Katy M said:

But, he technically didn't.  Dean never lost a game of pool.  Sam did.  And when it counted.  It was only because she decided to honor the lost bet (because of both of them) that they "won."

Yes, she offered that.  But, Sam turned it down to get the lives of the bar people instead.

I think she may have given it to them. They certainly got more than they walked in with and more than Dean earned. Sam earned nothing but those people's lives. She gave them extra. Because she implied that they were like the heroes of yore I think it's implied she gave them the heroic luck she mentioned.

[Aeryn13]

3 minutes ago, Katy M said:

But, he technically didn't.  Dean never lost a game of pool.  Sam did.  And when it counted.  It was only because she decided to honor the lost bet (because of both of them) that they "won."

Yes, she offered that.  But, Sam turned it down to get the lives of the bar people instead.

Sam won even though losing. His heroics of playing for the people impressed her. Dean had nothing to do with that.

[Binns]

4 minutes ago, Bergamot said:

Funny, I must have missed the cheap shots that the writers took at Jared's character, to balance out the ones that were aimed at Jensen's character. Sure, everything was nice and even.

I guess I didn’t really see it that way...I thought they were pretty true to character...Sam’s always been the darling one and Dean the cocky flashy one. 
 

of course, I’m in the middle of S03 so I’m deep into the old characterizations before things went awry. 

[trudysmom]

While this wasn't as craptastic as last week, it was a far cry from what Supernatural should be.  Worst moment for me, when Dean said to Sam "You're better than me at pretty much everything, and I'm ok with it, proud even."  BULLSHIT.  The hot steamy kind that Dabb is full of.  

[ILoveReading]

11 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Oh and "you are better than me at everything". Of course, writers, we know

please tell me this line was not in the actual episode

[Binns]

1 minute ago, trudysmom said:

While this wasn't as craptastic as last week, it was a far cry from what Supernatural should be.  Worst moment for me, when Dean said to Sam "You're better than me at pretty much everything, and I'm ok with it, proud even."  BULLSHIT.  The hot steamy kind that Dabb is full of.  

See, I thought that was really in character for Dean to say. He’s always been like a proud dad of Sam. Sam knows that isn’t true just like everyone else but Dean believes it to be true. 

[Aeryn13]

1 minute ago, ILoveReading said:

please tell me this line was not in the actual episode

Sorry, it was.

[Myrelle]

1 minute ago, ILoveReading said:

please tell me this line was not in the actual episode

I wish I could, but her quote is accurate. 

[Castiels Cat]

1 minute ago, trudysmom said:

While this wasn't as craptastic as last week, it was a far cry from what Supernatural should be.  Worst moment for me, when Dean said to Sam "You're better than me at pretty much everything, and I'm ok with it, proud even."  BULLSHIT.  The hot steamy kind that Dabb is full of.  

Yes. Dean excels at hunting, car repair, cooking...

[ILoveReading]

19 minutes ago, Binns said:

I’m just going to pretend that last week didn’t happen. Whoever wrote this week cleaned that mess up pretty well. 

Id disagree.  Sam and Dean didn't earn their luck back.  They were granted it back because apparently half cowboy/half Christ figure Sam impressed Fortuna (or whatever her name was.)  There was nothing I could see in the ep that suggested Sam and Dean always had the skills.  It doesn't change the fact that they could only do things becuase Chuck allowed them. 

If it was walking it back they wouldn't have overcame it on their own rather than having it granted because Sam is a saint.

[Aeryn13]

7 minutes ago, Binns said:

See, I thought that was really in character for Dean to say. He’s always been like a proud dad of Sam. Sam knows that isn’t true just like everyone else but Dean believes it to be true. 

Plenty believe it to be true. That's why dialogue like that is there, to establish it is "true."

And if Sam doesn't believe it, he should not let such a putdown stand. That would be a horrible thing for anyone to say and should be refuted.

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by Aeryn13

[Binns]

2 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Id disagree.  Sam and Dean didn't earn their luck back.  They were granted it back because apparently half cowboy/half Christ figure Sam impressed Fortuna (or whatever her name was.)  There was nothing I could see in the ep that suggested Sam and Dean always had the skills.  It doesn't change the fact that they could only do things becuase Chuck allowed them. 

If it was walking it back they wouldn't have overcame it on their own rather than having it granted because Sam is a saint.

She was impressed with both of them, not just Sam. I’m a Deangirl through and through but I’m not seeing the BvJ in tonight’s episode that a lot of you are. 

3 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Plenty believe it to be true. That's why dialogue like that is there, to establish it is "true."

But wouldn’t you agree that Dean’s always been like that about Sam? Always holding him above himself? That’s how he’s been written from the beginning. 

[Aeryn13]

Just now, Binns said:

She was impressed with both of them, not just Sam. I’m a Deangirl through and through but I’m not seeing the BvJ in tonight’s episode that a lot of you are. 

Sam was playing the game and making the bet. Dean didn"t have a chance to impress her. And she had already dismissed him. There was no opportunity for him to turn that around.

 

[Myrelle]

19 minutes ago, Bergamot said:

Funny, I must have missed the cheap shots that the writers took at Jared's character, to balance out the ones that were aimed at Jensen's character. Sure, everything was nice and even.

The "beach read" one was the worst and most telling, IMO.

And there was really no need for it except to denigrate the character.

[Aeryn13]

3 minutes ago, Binns said:

 

But wouldn’t you agree that Dean’s always been like that about Sam? Always holding him above himself? That’s how he’s been written from the beginning. 

He never said such a horrible line ad verbatim. He used to have some dignity left. And it wasn't played like it is utterly true before.

[ILoveReading]

2 minutes ago, Binns said:

’m not seeing the BvJ in tonight’s episode that a lot of you are. 

They literally had Dean say Sam is better than him at just about everything.

 

3 minutes ago, Binns said:

But wouldn’t you agree that Dean’s always been like that about Sam? Always holding him above himself? That’s how he’s been written from the beginning. 

True but at 14 and half years in its sad that Dean still thinks he's inferior to Sam.  Where is the character growth?

[Binns]

11 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

They literally had Dean say Sam is better than him at just about everything.

 

True but at 14 and half years in its sad that Dean still thinks he's inferior to Sam.  Where is the character growth?

I know he said that, but to me that was very in character. Dean has said similar things before, maybe not verbatim, but he’s definitely said things like that before. He’s always, always, always put Sam before himself and it’s such an ingrained part of him that he’s not really going to grow out of it. And honestly that level of devotion to Sam is one of the things I like best about him. I don’t think it means that he’s weaker or less capable than Sam. 

[ahrtee]

IA that the "beach read" line was OTT and designed to denigrate the character.  But (oddly enough) I'm going to defend just a little:  I think Fortuna deliberately didn't want to play Dean because she'd *seen* how good he was (She's a goddess.  I say she knew everything that went on in all the games in her place.)  Yes, that was all his skill in the games he played *before* he started to win.  She didn't know if she could beat him but (since she can read people) knew she could beat Sam. 

I do think she looked at both of them when she called them heroes, though that may be the director softening the way it was written.    And I don't think she gave them an upgrade, just took away the disadvantage that Chuck had created.  

There's no excuse for the mess that was the return of Jack, though.  It just felt like a load of vague ideas tossed against a wall to see what stuck.  And that was what it was:  a gluey mess of half-baked crap.

 

[Aeryn13]

1 minute ago, Binns said:

I know he said that, but to me that was very in character. Dean has said similar things before, maybe not verbatim, but he’s definitely said things like that before. He’s always, always, always put Sam before himself and it’s such an ingrained part of him that he’s not really going to grow out of it. And honestly that level of devotion to Sam is one of the things I like best about him. I don’t think it means that he’s weaker or less capable than Sam. 

I think it might be the worst thing about him. If he is that pathetic after all this time, what was his journey over the show?

And conversely why does Sam still need that much propping and butt-kissing?

[Binns]

1 minute ago, Aeryn13 said:

I think it might be the worst thing about him. If he is that pathetic after all this time, what was his journey over the show?

And conversely why does Sam still need that much propping and butt-kissing?

I don’t see it as pathetic and Sam brushed off what he said because he knows it isn’t true. But...we clearly are seeing things very differently. And I’m sure that my thoughts are colored by the fact that I’m in an early season rewatch right now too. 

[ILoveReading]

4 minutes ago, Binns said:

I know he said that, but to me that was very in character. Dean has said similar things before, maybe not verbatim, but he’s definitely said things like that before. He’s always, always, always put Sam before himself and it’s such an ingrained part of him that he’s not really going to grow out of it. And honestly that level of devotion to Sam is one of the things I like best about him. I don’t think it means that he’s weaker or less capable than Sam. 

But at some point the show needs to start building Dean up.  It needs to have someone refute these points.

*I don't mean this is a bitch vs jerk context, but from a character standpoint.

I don't know exactly where the bitch/jerk line is with regards to this so I'm going to just strongly disagree because I don't want to cross the line. 

[Aeryn13]

2 minutes ago, Binns said:

I don’t see it as pathetic and Sam brushed off what he said because he knows it isn’t true. But...we clearly are seeing things very differently. And I’m sure that my thoughts are colored by the fact that I’m in an early season rewatch right now too. 

I'm even sure I could stomach a rewatch now. I think current Dean should be mercy-killed as it is. 

Within the episode what for example made you think Fortuna was impressed by Dean also? In light of her earlier dismissal and him not getting a chance to do anything to earn her respect?  A random look? Him being included doesn't make any logical sense with how the episode played.

Edited January 31, 2020 by Aeryn13

[Pondlass1]

Wow. Jensen’s good at pool.  But I’m not surprised.
 

I didn’t realize it was just about luck. Maybe I wasn’t watching closely enough last week and I don’t want to watch again right now, but I thought it was about them being just ‘normal’. Nothing special. Normal like us lot of peasants who get cavities and colonoscopies. That Chuck’s fairy dust gave them the ‘special’ depending on his whims. 
 

The word hero was bandied about a lot.  Maybe Dabb is trying to appease us.  They ARE heroes. They go where angels fear to tread kind of thing. Dean’s  need to release the trapped was just like him. 

Jared is looking especially gaunt.  His face especially. Maybe this was shot during his troubles.

I enjoyed the episode actually.  Good atmosphere and acting. But the return of Jack who’s somehow going to be the next God was kind of a drag. 
 

 

 

 

[Castiels Cat]

40 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

IA that the "beach read" line was OTT and designed to denigrate the character.  But (oddly enough) I'm going to defend just a little:  I think Fortuna deliberately didn't want to play Dean because she'd *seen* how good he was (She's a goddess.  I say she knew everything that went on in all the games in her place.)  Yes, that was all his skill in the games he played *before* he started to win.  She didn't know if she could beat him but (since she can read people) knew she could beat Sam. 

I do think she looked at both of them when she called them heroes, though that may be the director softening the way it was written.    And I don't think she gave them an upgrade, just took away the disadvantage that Chuck had created.  

There's no excuse for the mess that was the return of Jack, though.  It just felt like a load of vague ideas tossed against a wall to see what stuck.  And that was what it was:  a gluey mess of half-baked crap.

 

I agree that she did not want to play Dean and knew she could beat Sam. Greek heroes typically won by currying a goddess's or God's favor who helped them. It would be her thing to give them a boost of luck. It's moot I guess with Just Jack though. 

[Binns]

1 minute ago, Castiels Cat said:

I agree that she did not want to play Dean and knew she could beat Sam. Greek heroes typically won by currying a goddess's or God's favor who helped them. It would be her thing to give them a boost of luck. It's moot I guess with Just Jack though. 

That was my thought too. She didn’t think she could beat Dean. 

[Jediknight]

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

Sam was playing the game and making the bet. Dean didn"t have a chance to impress her. And she had already dismissed him. There was no opportunity for him to turn that around.

 

He didn't stop Sam from making the bet, he didn't argue with Sam, and said "They matter to us."  She can read people, and she could read that both of them had the will and character of the old heroes.  They had what they wanted, they had a chance to become superheroes, and were willing to give all that up for a group of strangers.  That impressed her, both Winchesters impressed her with that.

It wasn't about the playing, it was about what both were willing to give up, and do for a bunch of people they had just met.

[KayCordingly]

I really enjoyed the episode. Well, like 99% of it. I love watching the boys make saving people their priority. Yes, it was pretty similar to the card game episode, but it was also different enough that I found it entertaining. I also liked that they humanized the other characters by giving them backstories, thus fueling the boys even more to win. It felt downright retro. Vintage SPN.

And then Jack showed up, and announced that he could kill God. And I was like "oh right, I forgot the show is no longer about the Winchesters. Silly me!"🙄

[AwesomO4000]

On 1/30/2020 at 10:16 PM, ahrtee said:

IA that the "beach read" line was OTT and designed to denigrate the character.  But (oddly enough) I'm going to defend just a little:  I think Fortuna deliberately didn't want to play Dean because she'd *seen* how good he was (She's a goddess.  I say she knew everything that went on in all the games in her place.)  Yes, that was all his skill in the games he played *before* he started to win.  She didn't know if she could beat him but (since she can read people) knew she could beat Sam. 

I do think she looked at both of them when she called them heroes, though that may be the director softening the way it was written.    And I don't think she gave them an upgrade, just took away the disadvantage that Chuck had created.  

There's no excuse for the mess that was the return of Jack, though.  It just felt like a load of vague ideas tossed against a wall to see what stuck.  And that was what it was:  a gluey mess of half-baked crap.

I agree with you! (*Looks to make sure no catastrophe is happening* ; )  )

This is how I read it too. That this was Fortuna's strategy. She's a god, and can read people, and Dean had already beaten the game - twice - and she was very impressed by the second game. Her main chance to beat them was to make up an excuse to play Sam instead. I'm not even sure she didn't let Sam win that first game... that she didn't let him "trick" her with talking.

As for Sam, he did say that Dean taught him everything he knows... and in my opinion he didn't just mean pool. It's a continuation of the "Dean raised me" from two episodes ago. For me the theme seems to be that Sam is how he is because of Dean's influence... and Sam said as much.

On 1/30/2020 at 10:24 PM, Aeryn13 said:

Within the episode what for example made you think Fortuna was impressed by Dean also? In light of her earlier dismissal and him not getting a chance to do anything to earn her respect?  A random look? Him being included doesn't make any logical sense with how the episode played.

Dean was the one who told Fortuna about Chuck and got her to realize that they were in a similar position. Dean got her to open up about her own dealings with Chuck. Dean was the one who established "kinship" for their circumstances which I'm sure went a long way towards getting her to help them.

 

Edited February 3, 2020 by AwesomO4000