S02.E13: Nightwing

[MarkHB]

Quote

The Titans reassemble under Dick, who has now fully taken on the mantle of Nightwing, to fight Deathstroke and attempt to save Jericho. But that’s not the only struggle they face – as the team finds themselves up against mind-altered versions of Gar and Conner, who are now supercharged weapons at the “mercy” of Mercy Graves and her Cadmus final Phase Two plan.

[DeadlyEuphoric]

I have mixed feelings about this...

The good:

Dick/Nightwing. From suit to the action to Dick actually being smart and getting things done and being there when needed. Him apologizing to Gar and owning to his mistake in leaving him alone. Felt like the Nightwing I know and love!

Bruce. Love him messing up Mercy's plans and OMG the smiley emojis(. this Bruce actually has a sense of humor (though might be a tad influenced by his villains lol) and TIME for his kids (well at least his possibly favorite kid) and shows he cares and even helps out the Titans. Take note comics writers! Loved the talk between him and Dick. He is great.

Jason showing up for Donna's funeral. Awww...

Elko. The reveal it was Rachel's doing all along. awesome.

Donna actually showing some power. She was able to stand her ground against Superboy  for a while (which does make one wonder why she did so pourly against Deathstroke though) AND I think we actually saw her show some superspeed at the very end, which was weird.

The bad:

the resolution to both Deathstroke and Cadmus was very rushed and lame. Which makes me think in S3 or onward they will reappear but honestly Titans thinking Deathstroke was dead for sure was stupid. They didn't even really CHECK in any way. Dick just looked down and said "yes" lol. Did they just leave him lying in the street like that and went on to the carnival? and never bothered to check again? Dumb dumb dumb. And Cadmus's brainwashing shouldn't have been so easy to break. Although it was nice and made sense for Rachel to be able to reach Gar and loved that Dick figured out how to save Conner we should have seen them doing checkups on them and trying to undo the damage because what Cadmus did was also something physical. The way it is, I feel they might snap back at anytime. Especially Gar. Wouldn't listen classical music around him!

Donna's death. Easily the dumbest death ever. Really, show? Deathstroke didn't kill her. Superboy didn't kill her. Falling debree electrocuted and killed her? Seriously? Who did the actress piss of so much? (though guess Rachel will just revive her for S3 so guess no one, they just needed their promos to say "a titan will fall down as another rises" and needed it to be not permanent),,

The Questionable

Jericho/Rose. So, will they always be a dual act? Or will Rachel came in S3 and fix that situation too after reviving Donna. Because if so they are getting very close to overdoing the Rachel trick where she just fixes everything. But I feel it is a situation that DOES need to be fixed somehow.

Was the Amazon whose hand Dick was shaking supposed to be Diana? if not, where the hell is Diana?

Blackfire... Err, kind of convenient of her to come down to earth to mess with her sister when we know Kory didn't have the means to go back home and Titans aren't likely to be able to space travel. I am sure saves the show budget too. But really, why would she even bother? But not going to judge too harshly yet, guess s3 will explain it. I am guessing she might be facing resistance to her rule and came down to earth to kill off Kory to put an end to it all.

and I still wish Hawk and Dove to have their spin-off and be gone from Titans. But must admit at this point I like Hank better than Dawn. The guy can at least self-reflect and be humble and isnt always "me, me, me,  I am great and wonderful, how dare you not listen to me/disappoint me/disagree with me".

Edited November 29, 2019 by DeadlyEuphoric

[madhacker]

5 hours ago, DeadlyEuphoric said:

Who did the actress piss of so much? (though guess Rachel will just revive her for S3 so guess no one, they just needed their promos to say "a titan will fall down as another rises" and needed it to be not permanent),,

5 hours ago, DeadlyEuphoric said:

Jason showing up for Donna's funeral. Awww...

Both Curran Walters and Conor Leslie have both confirmed they're coming back for season 3 but when Donna comes back I really hope that she becomes Troia with a black and silver costume.

oh and I'm shallow enough to cheer that the last Titan we see in the end shot was a freed Krypto!!!

and as much as I loved Bruce ruining Cadmus's little massacre auction, I would've much rather it had been Oracle. Am I the only one thinking Karen Gillan (Nebula/Amy Pond) would totally work as a cameo?

[MarkHB]

3 hours ago, madhacker said:

and as much as I loved Bruce ruining Cadmus's little massacre auction, I would've much rather it had been Oracle. Am I the only one thinking Karen Gillan (Nebula/Amy Pond) would totally work as a cameo?

I doubt that, if they could even get the rights to Barbara, they would lead with her as Oracle over Batgirl. But ITA about Karen Gillan.

For those watching on DC Universe, there's a surprise detour if you make it all the way to the end of the credits.

[Cthulhudrew]

Argh. This season is trying really hard to break me from liking this show as much as I do.

Pacing, pacing, pacing. Someone really needs to sit this writers' room down next season and do a better job breaking the season so they don't flub things up like they did the past two seasons (this one especially):

The Nightwing/Deathstroke fight scene was cool, but a real anticlimactic ending for their season long duel of wits and wills. They also rushed the Jericho resolution (as they did with most of the character beats this ep/season). I also find it incredibly stupid that Donna and Dawn just sat in the car the whole time. Sure, Dick said "this is my fight" but a) he seemed fine with Rose jumping in, and b) meanwhile across town, Gar is doing some Ravaging of his own while they sit on their asses playing "See Dick Fight." 

(IE, Donna is wasted as has been the usual case with her character, sadly.)

Then we have the other rushed climax, when all the Titans finally come together again (sans Jason). I generally liked how Dick helped Connor (although it was a little handwavey), and while I liked the Donna/Connor fight, I was disappointed that he was able to do so well against a trained Amazonian warrior. He's strong, sure, but so is she, and she should be a better fighter. Anyway.

I will echo the sentiment that it was a little unfortunate Bruce had to jump in to help, although it wasn't such a blatant amount of help that it impacted the heroes much. I do wonder what Dick was doing while everyone else was fighting, though. Waiting for his dramatic entrance, I guess? (Must be that three-ring circus upbringing.)

Then the stupidity of that Donna "death" scene. Pointless and wasteful.

Mostly, though, just rushed. We don't get to see the repercussions of what Gar went through (and he still isn't changing into anything but a tiger). There is a random phone call from Lex Luthor that doesn't seem to amount to anything. Deathstroke is apparently dead, although no one thinks to check on this guy with the super healing factor. All of the Titans' legal troubles are glossed over (Both Dick and Connor at least are wanted men, and I think Kory still has warrants outstanding doesn't she?) not to mention the publicity problems with that killer green tiger on the team. It is unclear what- if anything- happened to Mercy and Cadmus. And the only ones that apparently Jericho has any discussion about his resurrection with are Dick and Rose (sort of). Plus the convenience of the writers having Kory lose her powers just when they need them (fighting Connor and Deathstroke).

That last part, I assume, will be connected to season 3 somehow at least.

I really do enjoy this show, and the actors do a helluva job with their performances, but the writers need to do a better job telling a story as well as giving their characters time to process things as an ensemble, and not just Dick and Rachel.

11 hours ago, DeadlyEuphoric said:

Was the Amazon whose hand Dick was shaking supposed to be Diana? if not, where the hell is Diana?

I don't think so. For a second I thought they were going to have her introduce herself as Cassie when Dick handed her the lariat. I figured the only reason they might have killed off Donna was to introduce Wonder Girl.

[Primal Slayer]

What did I just watch? We spent all this time with flashbacks and random episodes just to have a rushed finale? And the lame death of Donna Troy?

The Slade fight was good and all but he was the big bad of the season and you take him out within the first 20mins....then Gar is able to be talked back into normalcy while everyone fights Conner...Donna who should be able to practically whoop his butt has problems taking him on...oh and she dies by electrocution....ok.....

Lets not talk about no mention of Diana or Diana being there for Donnas death and Rachel just being able to go to Themiscrya without any go ahead from whoever the head Amazon was....

Oh and we had Bruce just watching everything bts.....I just cant. I will but I cant...

Are we supposed to think that Kory is also a blob that took over a human host?

[Lyanna19]

First off. 

Dick as Nightwing was awesome!!  💃Loved every moment. The fighting was phenomenal. 

I loved the way he was able to reach Connor. 

Dick/Nightwing = awesomeness 

Rachel and Gar... Awww, beautiful.... 

Loved that Robin came for Donna... 

Dick was awesome!!!! And wonderful, and beautiful, I can't think of a better actor than Brenton Thwaites.... 

Now the bad stuff... 

Donna. Like all she's said and done with being angry and moody about Dick, we're just to pretend it never happened? All is honky dory now? Honestly I'm not even sure I care enough that she's dead. Horrible of me I know.... But she hurt Dick a lot more when she turned her back on him than any of the others did, she was supposedly his best friend! 

I too feel Mercy needed a better ending. She practically got off scot free. 

Don't care enough about Hawk and Dove. 

I absolutely positively hate the actor they have for Bruce Wayne! And with an English (or is it British?) accent to boot! What?!?! Bruce Wayne is American! 

Why can't Barbara Gordon appear in Titans? We need to give Dick his love interest.... 😍 

And what did Kory mean when she said "this is for Lex Luther" did I forget something? 

Did I mention that Dick Grayson was awesome? 😉👍😍

Edited November 30, 2019 by Lyanna19
Corrected words

[Sakura12]

As a Nightwing show it was okay, as a Titan's show it was an inconsistent mess. This show somehow manages to be too slow and too rushed at the same time. That's an accomplishment. 

Of course Donna finally manages to show some of her power, super strength and speed, then gets killed by being electrocuted. Thats the one time she should've used her stupid lasso and doesn't. I don't know why they'd bother to bring her back they did nothing with her the first time around and made her powers so inconsistent. She can barely fight Deathstoke but can hold her own against Superboy? Ok show. Also why was Conner just standing around and not helping? Did he suddenly forget about his powers like Donna does each episode. 

Since when does Rachel care about Donna? She ditched her in the car and has been nothing but salty to her. But now she's suddenly a friend she wants to save.

Then they are nerfing Kory's powers too. All to make Nightwing look good. This show is such a mess. Only Dick gets any character development. Everyone else gets moved around for the plot and doesn't make any sense. If I watch next season I'll be waiting for the whole thing to air. Having a week to think about how much of a mess each episode is doesn't help the show. I'd only watch live if they announced a new show runner, one that isn't obsessed with just Nightwing (and Hawk and Dove) so we can get an actual show about the Titans. 

[Quark]

Pacing is a major issue with this show, but this finale was so much better than last year's (not that that was hard to beat). Two thing confused me though about this season.

1. Doesn't Slade have other kids besides Rose and Connor? If the Arrowverse is anything to go by, there is also Joe and Grant?

2. I'm confused by this purple infection thing from Starfire's home planet. When Starfire's mate was infected, she burned his body and a hologram appeared of Blackfire. Will the same thing happen with this woman? Because the impression I got was that this woman is the actual Blackfire, but the same thing happened to her...

Hope that makes sense :p.

[DeadlyEuphoric]

21 hours ago, madhacker said:

Both Curran Walters and Conor Leslie have both confirmed they're coming back for season 3 but when Donna comes back I really hope that she becomes Troia with a black and silver costume.

oh and I'm shallow enough to cheer that the last Titan we see in the end shot was a freed Krypto!!!

and as much as I loved Bruce ruining Cadmus's little massacre auction, I would've much rather it had been Oracle. Am I the only one thinking Karen Gillan (Nebula/Amy Pond) would totally work as a cameo?

Oh, I just assumed she would return as Troia tbh and she totally should. Dick had his "grows out of the sidekick phase, finds new purpose, gets new name and costume" bit maybe next year Donna gets to do so for herself. and maybe this "growth" lets her be allowed to use her full powers from now on. Like in death they got "unlocked" somehow. I don't care how they did it, but they better get her powers right somehow.

And I totally cheered when I saw Krypto too. heh.

Karen is a good choice for Barbara Gordon but probably would never happen.

15 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

 All of the Titans' legal troubles are glossed over (Both Dick and Connor at least are wanted men, and I think Kory still has warrants outstanding doesn't she?) not to mention the publicity problems with that killer green tiger on the team.

That last part, I assume, will be connected to season 3 somehow at least.

I really do enjoy this show, and the actors do a helluva job with their performances, but the writers need to do a better job telling a story as well as giving their characters time to process things as an ensemble, and not just Dick and Rachel.

I can fanwank legal troubles get glossed over by Bruce's help and maybe some hacking etc somehow, though for all we know next season they will get mentioned.  I do have belief (after the Elko reveal) that some of the stuff that were left unanswered, are required too much of suspension of belief may have an explanation come S3, but we will see.

I must say, I think this episode there were times actors failed too. They had scenes where it felt like they were just reading the lines rather than emoting in any way. BUT it is probably a writing problem largely, when the dialogue feels offf and doesn't roll, not much actors can do about it.

13 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Lets not talk about no mention of Diana or Diana being there for Donnas death and Rachel just being able to go to Themiscrya without any go ahead from whoever the head Amazon was....

Oh and we had Bruce just watching everything bts.....I just cant. I will but I cant...

Are we supposed to think that Kory is also a blob that took over a human host?

I think with Rachel stuff we can just assume the Amazons did make her an offer to come along off-screen and she is just finalizing it with Dick.

As for the blob thing, it really confuses me. We know Kory landed here on a spaceship, so this is her, her own body, I would say. She and the guard both knew each other and how each other looked (were not surprised at the form the other took) so I would say it was always their own bodies. The blob thing seems to be something Blackfire does, though how I have no idea. And last time it seemed to me it was only temporary and the host body was meant to perish quite quickly. This time, she just took over and went off. If the blob is some parasitical part of her, does this mean her real self is still up in space? And the human she took over wont have her powers? Because honestly, the human really shouldn't be having her powers unless she somehow teleported her entire self through the blob somehow. It is very confusing.

Edited November 30, 2019 by DeadlyEuphoric

[BaggythePanther]

To me, when the blob went in the lady’s ear it looked like the host body took Blackfire’s form. So I wonder if they need a human body that they can they mold into their form? It could be their way of adapting to Earth’s environment. Or maybe I’m overthinking this.

The finale was very rushed. The way the characters were behaving didn’t always make complete sense because the plot just needed them to get from one point to another. I have so many questions and I’m not confident that the show will answer them in season three.

[Sakura12]

1 hour ago, Quark said:

1. Doesn't Slade have other kids besides Rose and Connor? If the Arrowverse is anything to go by, there is also Joe and Grant?

Jericho is Joe. That's the name hero name he chooses. Although on this show they seemed to make it his actual name. 

Grant they can't use because Arrow is using him. DC is really dumb with their lineup, they seem to think that the audience won't be able to tell the difference if two shows use the same characters at the same time. 

I haven't seen anything saying Conor Leslie is coming back. All the things I've seen she was the only one not confirmed and that's why everyone figured out she was the death. 

[phoenics]

This was a pretty good episode - although they packed so much into it.  I loved Bruce trolling Cadmus.  I laughed long and hard at that.  He didn't stop what was happening, all he did was disrupt the feed to the "buyers".  The Nightwing reveal was pretty good.  And the action was pretty good too.  I'm really glad S3 will focus on Blackfire as the big bad - but I'm already wary about how they are gonna make Dick the center of that storyline too, lol.

So I was right that it was Rachel who brought all of them together - I bet the donut lady was also a figment for Kory since she's already seen that lady in the liquor store.  Looks like Rachel's powers are really growing.  The show is still not really being explicit enough about it but whatever.  The scene where Kory realizes Bruce wasn't there was hilarious though... her facial expression to Dawn was super funny.

I still am not sure Gar is healed... nor Conner.  I feel like Mercy will be back with another plan... no way is Cadmus done.

I'm hoping that they delve into Kory more deeply next season - my guess is her powers are linked to her emotions and she's trying so hard to avoid her grief that maybe her powers are blocked because of that.  I'm upset Donna is gone - mostly because I liked Donna for the most part - but also because I loved her friendship with Kory.  And she knew what was going on with Kory.  It's not clear to me that Donna told anyone the details about Kory's lineage or any of the Tamaran Royalty stuff.  Also - I want to SEE Tamaran - not just have everything here on Earth.  I'm actually - for once - hoping for flashbacks to show Kory's life there.  I also hope the writers remember Dickory and give that back to us.  FFS please God no Dick/Dawn.

I felt like the whole Deathstroke plot got wrapped up way too fast.  All of that buildup for that tiny showdown (although Dick as Nightwing has a new fighting style), while the other 4 just watch him and Rose.  I'm actually hoping he gets revived by Cadmus or something.  I don't think Cadmus is done messing with the Titans either.

I really do love Conner.  Kory speaking to him in Kryptonian not to make her regret saving him and then punching him and instantly regretting it because her powers are gone was funny.

Donna's death was lame.  I guess they didn't want Conner living with the guilt of killing her, so they did that lame electrocution instead.  What's crazy is Conner could have easily stopped it - but noooo they wanted to kill Donna instead.  Hopefully she gets resurrected.  Her fight with Conner was a really bright spot.  When she died my sister was like - "did she piss someone off?  What a lame way to go."

Glad Jason is still around.

I still don't care about the Hawks, but out of both of them, Hank is okay.  He's less whiny and I like his cranky self.  Dawn is insufferable - I'm so mad Donna died and she's still here, lol.

My fanwank about Diana is that she's going to see Donna laid to rest on Themyscira in some kind of burial ceremony there.

ETA to add one last thought:  Big fat NO to Barbara Gordon joining in any way - we've got enough Batman characters around making the show way too Dick-centered.  Now that Nightwing has been born, this show needs to expand to be more inclusive of the other titans - especially Kory, Gar and Rachel.  Also - Dick has love interests... TWO on this show alone.  That's plenty.

Edited December 2, 2019 by phoenics

[Sandman]

Sure, show -- kill off the character I like best! (And I agree Donna's powers are shown inconsistently at best. But then so are everyone else's, except maybe Gar's.)

[blackwing]

Just finished the season... I felt like there was way too many things going on in this episode and all of the various storylines got resolved so easily and quickly.  Deathstroke’s death seemed like an afterthought when they tacked on saving Connor/Gar and the takedown of Cadmus, Jericho, Jason departing, Hank coming back, Kory’s powers, Blackfire.

I continue to despise Ian Glen as Bruce Wayne, and now the show has it that instead of Dick running the team, now he’s running it under the watchful eye of Bruce.  Is Batman supposed to be retired in this series?  He looks 60 so maybe.  But if he’s not retired, why isn’t he suiting up?

If Ian Glen is going to continue to be a part of the show in Season 3, my burning desire is that 1) they dub his lines with an American actor, or 2) please get him a dialect coach.   His American accent is horrifically bad, I feel like he watched New York gangster movies set in the 1920s and that’s what he thinks an American accent is supposed to sound like.

[Ottis]

That was definitely the wrong actor for Bruce Wayne. And Wonder Gal Donna was puzzlingly disappointing, powers-wise.

Bruce actually had a family, Dick. It was taken away from him.

I assume others besides TT live in that giant tower? If so, I would move out. 

I hope we can move forward now with a TT team and get past the who likes me/who I don’t like BS. Let’s have them work and live in the world and stop fighting each other.

PS Liked the cheekiness of the closing credits song.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Ottis