S10.E05: What It Always Is

[iMonrey]

Quote

However, you have to remember that Negan has been kept in jail ever since the war with the Saviors ended.  Yes, they let him out to labor in the garden, but that doesn't really count - inmates in prison go outside to work or exercise also.  The only times he's been out has been when he's escaped.  So he is being held accountable.  At least so far.  

Yes but I didn't mean being held accountable by the other characters, I meant in the writing. 

Quote

Charles Manson was a real person though, Negan is not. In real life I would hate Negan and people like Dexter and Walter White. But somehow I just have to have a different way of looking at TV characters or I couldn’t watch any of the shows I enjoy. 

Fictional stories are always about fictional characters. That doesn't mean they don't have to be written to be satisfying if you want the please the audience. I don't have different standards for fictional characters if I buy into the story. And if I don't buy into the story what's the point?

Contrary-wise, suppose you were doing an historical fiction about Hitler and you just loved the actor playing him so you were like "Well, I know he should die but golly, the actor is just so darned good so . . . Yay Hitler! Holocaust-Schmolocaust, he's a changed man now!" That's essentially what they're doing with Negan. 

Edited November 5, 2019 by iMonrey

[AngelaHunter]

18 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

They fixed the problem and the dark theme is back.

It is, but now the dialogue box in "Dark" has gone very narrow. God, all we do is complain. 😂

7 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Contrary-wise, suppose you were doing an historical fiction about Hitler and you just loved the actor playing him so you were like "Well, I know he should die but golly, the actor is just so darned good so . . . Yay Hitler!

This is why audiences originally loved "Dexter." Most people want someone evil and vile who preys on others to get what's coming to them. They want justice. Yes, Negan sat in a cell, smirking, yakking away and having meals served to him, but he has never shown an iota of remorse for the crimes he committed against innocent and helpless people and never expressed any concern about what happened to his little harem or anyone else left at the Sanctuary. That he's never paid for what he's done is frustrating to some viewers, excepting his silly fangirls and boys.

[AngelaHunter]

48 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Daryl has no leadership skills at all.   He has been around for far too long, he can't just turn on leadership skills like a light switch.

I've always said that about Daryl. Give him a leader and instructions and he's topnotch, but otherwise he sits and waits for someone else to make decisions. I believe leaders are born and not made. He could never be a leader.

Earl is too angry to be a leader. His anger and personal desire for revenge makes him reckless. Cooler heads must prevail. Alden might be a good choice but there's very little to choose from. Of course we don't know much about him. We don't know much about anyone since the last couple seasons were abosorbed in the stupid and pointless Roadrunner and Coyote Rick and Negan "I'm gonna kill you" x100 nonsense.

55 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I think Alpha was hinting at Aaron's facial skin being used as Gamma's replacement. 

I just got the impression she wanted someone to get insider information and we know what a sucker Aaron has become.

[rmontro]

13 hours ago, Lady Iris said:

I suppose, if I were to agree that Negan is redeemable, then his turnaround at not getting off on Negan Jr antics is supposed to be a major sign that he has changed, that he no longer wants to be that Negan. I suppose. Mostly.

You don't have to like Negan or even think he's redeemable, but consider this:

What if this Negan is more like the "real" Negan, and what happened before is largely the result of him going a little off his rocker bonkers after the death of his family and living in the ZA?  I mean I'm not saying that's what happened, or even that it's an excuse.  But it doesn't sound like Negan was living any sort of unusual or villainous life before the walkers epidemic.  He wouldn't be the first one to go crazy at the loss of his loved ones, look what happened to Morgan.  He was going to kill Rick at one point.

[amazinglybored]

5 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Daryl has no leadership skills at all.   He has been around for far too long, he can't just turn on leadership skills like a light switch.   Hilltop needs to either elevate Alden and/or Earl to leadership levels.

Way back when, I think they at least flirted with making him more of a leader. Prison era more or less. That ship sailed a long time ago, though. There’s no remotely organic way to change that now and there’s no one worth him being a good second banana to.

However, I’d argue the show has always been built on bad leaders. Maybe he gets a turn to not be very good at it while everyone chooses to ignore the problem.

[OoohMaggie]

10 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

  I think Alpha was hinting at Aaron's facial skin being used as Gamma's replacement. 

If she did wear Aaron’s skin, Bayda would have a ‘Mini-Me’ to go around with.

[OoohMaggie]

9 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Earl is too angry to be a leader. His anger and personal desire for revenge makes him reckless. Cooler heads must prevail. Alden might be a good choice but there's very little to choose from. Of course we don't know much about him

Alden was ‘Mr Reasonable’ at the Saviour outpost, he’ll make a splendid Consigliere with Daryl as Capo when The Don returns next year! 😁  She’ll have thieving Magna swinging off the arse end of a horse.

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

Quote

I think Alpha was hinting at Aaron's facial skin being used as Gamma's replacement. 

I just got the impression she wanted someone to get insider information and we know what a sucker Aaron has become.

Same here--if this is referring to the "try a new mask" scene, I took it as an instructional metaphor for "play a role that works to the Whisperers' advantage." 

[AngelaHunter]

So I did something I haven't done probably since Se04 and that is rewatch an ep.

The Negan nut-tap thing wasn't nearly as bad as I expected. Just stupid, silly and juvenile. Typical Negan but they really could have had him say something more useful or meaningful to the kid.

The Fanboy was way over the top and are we expected to believe this is the first time he's talked to his idol in all these years?

I still couldn't concentrate on this whole thief business so don't know what the hell that was all about, but "I don't trust you"? Who wouldn't trust Daryl? What was the point of that? I admit I skimmed it so may have again missed something vital. Or not.

I thought it was rather narcissistic of Saddiq to talk about his "condition" to the King, as though it compares to a terminal illness. Amazed all over again that he suggested hypnosis or acupuncture. He may as well have suggested burning some chicken feathers or drinking a brew with eye of newt.

I guess there's something foreboding about Rosita having a "bug"?

Beta's leather coat is much bigger than Negan's.

Edited November 6, 2019 by AngelaHunter

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

Amazed all over again that he suggested hypnosis or acupuncture. He may as well have suggested burning some chicken feathers or drinking a brew with eye of newt.

I thought he meant for pain management or stress or whatever, not as a cure. Also, does anyone there even know how to do acupuncture?! They could ask Negan; he probably likes to puncture people.

Edited November 6, 2019 by TattleTeeny

[AngelaHunter]

21 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

I thought he meant for pain management or stress or whatever, not as a cure. Also, does anyone there even know how to do acupuncture?!

Oh, that could be it. Makes it more understandable, thanks. If Saddiq knows how to practice medicine, do acupuncture (don't know where he'd get the needles) and hypnosis he is truly a man of many talents.

[TattleTeeny]

Oh my goodness, every time I refresh this page, I see that image of Carl about to get clocked and it makes me--an unrepentant Carl fan--so sad! (However, when Shiva swooped in, I screamed and yelled and my BF instinctively knew to rewind it a million times.)

Edited November 6, 2019 by TattleTeeny

[AngelaHunter]

3 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Especially after Daryl ripped him for going off on Lydia in the past when they were trudging through the snow and abandoning horses.

I have absolutely  no memory of any of these. It's like my brain automatically deletes the episodes on exit.

11 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

, I see that image of Carl about to get clocked and it makes me--an unrepentant Carl fan--so sad!

But now we know he would never have done it. It was just a little practical joke by that rascal, Uncle Negan, and Shiva ruined all the fun.

[AngelaHunter]

3 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

And what role would that be?  Certainly not a romantic one.

No, but Alpha knows Aaron gave Gamma a bandage so no doubt thinks Aaron is a soft touch/gullible idiot (into which Show has indeed turned him) with his "Hi, my name is Aaron. I'm from Vermont! What's your name?" so can be used to get info.

That reminds me: What the hell was Aaron doing wandering around in the dense brush all alone, snick-snacking his sword like he was playing "Knights of the Round Table" or some shit?

So in Whisperer culture if you even offer an opinion on anything that differs with Alpha's, you die? I can see why they're all so faithful to her. 🙄

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

And what role would that be?  Certainly not a romantic one.

Oh, I don't know -- maybe someone who wants to be free of Alpha or something along those lines. I have no idea; I just didn't think Alpha meant to literally put on a new face mask. 

 

Quote

Shiva ruined all the fun.

That's cats for ya.

Edited November 6, 2019 by TattleTeeny

[OoohMaggie]

57 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Alden was at one point a Savior, I don't blame him for playing it cool and keeping a low profile.  Especially after Daryl ripped him for going off on Lydia in the past when they were trudging through the snow and abandoning horses.

He was indeed, but was he Negan? I don’t believe that every Saviour was a murdering thug, Dr Carson was a Saviour, but he was, like many just trying to stay alive, he seemed  a decent guy just doing what it took to see the next dawn. I think the real Alden is what we see now, at least it’s believable compared to the nonsense of the Negan redemption, he just took waaaayyyy too much pleasure in others misfortune, especially poor old Carson heaved  into the furnace.

[OoohMaggie]

1 hour ago, AngelaHunter said:

But now we know he would never have done it. It was just a little practical joke by that rascal, Uncle Negan, and Shiva ruined all the fun.

Yeah, he was just testing Big Rick, to prove Negan would have been a better father to beloved Coral, I guess he was right!

[AngelaHunter]

28 minutes ago, OoohMaggie said:

He was indeed, but was he Negan? I don’t believe that every Saviour was a murdering thug, Dr Carson was a Saviour, but he was, like many just trying to stay alive, he seemed  a decent guy just doing what it took to see the next dawn. I think the real Alden is what we see now, at least it’s believable compared to the nonsense of the Negan redemption, he just took waaaayyyy too much pleasure in others misfortune, especially poor old Carson heaved  into the furnace.

Yes, Alden from what little we know of him, is much more believable as a reformed Savior. Negan hurling a rare and invaluable doctor into the fire for kicks was not only sick and heinous, but really stoopid. Of course, Negan has never been portrayed as being particularly bright.

[heisenberg]

On 11/4/2019 at 10:57 PM, Madding crowd said:

Charles Manson was a real person though, Negan is not. In real life I would hate Negan and people like Dexter and Walter White. But somehow I just have to have a different way of looking at TV characters or I couldn’t watch any of the shows I enjoy.

I agree.

When the movie "The doors" came out most of my female friends were in "love" with Jim Morrison.  I used to tell them "He was hiting girls and he even tried to burn one in a closet, the guy is an asshole"...  And they were anwering me "Yeah but he is so cute and sexy!"

Manson and Hitler used to be real people who made real things,  Walter White and Negan are fictional.  When White kills Jessie's girlfriend it was disgusting but it is fictional.

Edited November 6, 2019 by heisenberg

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

Ezekiel can't let Shiva go.  He felt the need to make a wig out of Shiva's cat turds.

Those dreads are HUGE.

[OoohMaggie]

7 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Carol isn't any great prize, but to have Ezekiel go through this alone is really quite sad.

Yeah, she needs to get her shit together and realise there were two people in that relationship.

[AngelaHunter]

32 minutes ago, heisenberg said:

Walter White and Negan are fictional. 

Yes, but their crimes are what happens in real life, which is why - as I get progressively more squeamish -  I personally cannot watch scenes of torture, rape, cruelty or murders that are done by strangulation, throat-cutting (I had to look away when the Termites were doing that), beating to death, etc. Gunshots are fine. 😁 I know the particular scenes are not really happening to the actors, but it does happen all the time.

46 minutes ago, heisenberg said:

And they were anwering me "Yeah but he is so cute and sexy!"

There were women madly in love with Ted Bundy too. Probably the kind who find Negan hot and sexy and envy his harem.

[AngelaHunter]

9 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

Those dreads are HUGE.

They look like matted mattress stuffing and must weigh a ton.

[TattleTeeny]

I think one can acknowledge someone's physical appeal, and even some positive personality traits or talents, without condoning that person's actions, especially if you don't know of the nasty stuff (like with Dexter--or Ted Bundy before he was caught). And, obviously, someone watching this show may appreciate and even like Negan because they like JDM.

Quote

Shiva was a really big cat.  You should have seen the litter box.

This always makes me wonder if everyone at the Kingdom had to be vegetarians; surely they'd need to feed Shiva all of the meat not designated for the Saviors. 

Edited November 6, 2019 by TattleTeeny

[heisenberg]

1 hour ago, AngelaHunter said:

Yes, but their crimes are what happens in real life, which is why - as I get progressively more squeamish -  I personally cannot watch scenes of torture, rape, cruelty or murders that are done by strangulation, throat-cutting (I had to look away when the Termites were doing that), beating to death, etc. Gunshots are fine. 😁 I know the particular scenes are not really happening to the actors, but it does happen all the time.

I feel the same about movies like Chainsaw Massacre, 10 minutes in and I close it.  we all have our limits I guess.

[rmontro]

3 hours ago, heisenberg said:

When the movie "The doors" came out most of my female friends were in "love" with Jim Morrison.  I used to tell them "He was hiting girls and he even tried to burn one in a closet, the guy is an asshole"...  And they were anwering me "Yeah but he is so cute and sexy!"

And Morrison isn't even a fictional character (which Negan is).  So it's okay to do those things as long as you're "cute and sexy"?  Disturbing.

[TattleTeeny]

Thinking someone is physically appealing is not the same as being OK with that same person's bad acts.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Manson and Hitler used to be real people who made real things,  Walter White and Negan are fictional.

I see that as a distinction without a difference. Negan getting away with his crimes is not emotionally satisfying as a story arc, any more than Charles Manson getting a free pass would be. If the appeal of the actor is your only criteria or concern then I suppose you don't care how many people the character murders so long as you get to watch them and look at them every week. But for those who care about the story and want to see actions have consequences, the appeal of the actor is not sufficient to excuse or rationalize his or her past actions.

Me, I'm in it for the story. What they're doing just isn't a good story.

Now, did I want to see Negan take down Alpha and Beta with Lucille II? You bet your ass I did. And that would at least be a way to make reasonable use of Negan regardless of what I think of him, if they are determined to keep him on the show. But I'm still never going to be all "let bygones be bygones" about him.

Edited November 6, 2019 by iMonrey

[AngelaHunter]

10 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Now, did I want to see Negan take down Alpha and Beta with Lucille II?

I can't imagine how he would do that, since he had all the trouble in the world triumphing over the decayed walker who knocked him down. He was only able to kill his biggest fan because he sucker-punched him with a big rock. Beta could kill Negan with one hand tied behind his back. That reminds me: Is Beta's face horribly disfigured? Do we know? Is that gutteral growl his normal speaking voice? I'm thinking he may have been seriously burned.

2 hours ago, heisenberg said:

I feel the same about movies like Chainsaw Massacre, 10 minutes in and I close it.  we all have our limits I guess.

One night I fell asleep in my lazyboy. I woke up to a movie called "Hostel." I'm still traumatized, mostly by the fact that I could see people actually doing this IRL.

[amazinglybored]

29 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

I can't imagine how he would do that, since he had all the trouble in the world triumphing over the decayed walker who knocked him down. He was only able to kill his biggest fan because he sucker-punched him with a big rock. Beta could kill Negan with one hand tied behind his back. That reminds me: Is Beta's face horribly disfigured? Do we know? Is that gutteral growl his normal speaking voice? I'm thinking he may have been seriously burned.

Sure, but it’s Negan which means if the whisperers are anything like Rick and friends were, Beta would go to punch Negan and miss. Every. Single. Time. Eventually he’d be exhausted and Negan would talk him to death.

[AngelaHunter]

Oh, and from my rewatch: Daryl? Needs to go scrub the crud off your body and just do it with Connie. He's 10 years overdue. I am so sick of this jejeune, high-school fliratation, Archie and Veronica crap. I don't care how much TPTB shy away with blushes and tittering from adult sexuality and the fangirls want Daryl to be a saint, a neuter or a virgin. It's ridiculous, nauseating and eye-rolling at this point.

[TattleTeeny]

I am not a fangirl (though I do like Daryl very much), but for no particular reason, I have always thought of him as asexual. 

[amazinglybored]

1 hour ago, TattleTeeny said:

I am not a fangirl (though I do like Daryl very much), but for no particular reason, I have always thought of him as asexual. 

Yeah, I’ve always been fine with him not being in a romantic relationship or hooking up because it felt natural. I’ve seen the different takes on it (asexual, trauma, coded as gay) and I’m not sure what I’d label it as but it’s worked and been consistent. I think a lot of it is Reedus more than anything.

And the show is not good at romantic relationships. They could never do another one and I’d be perfectly happy.

[rmontro]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I see that as a distinction without a difference. Negan getting away with his crimes is not emotionally satisfying as a story arc, any more than Charles Manson getting a free pass would be.

But he hasn't gotten away with his crimes (at least so far), he's been imprisoned since he was caught.  Until he escaped, but we'll see if that continues or not.

Also, everyone from the original group committed "crimes".  Remember when Carl murdered that kid in the woods?  Is everyone supposed to be locked up?  That wouldn't be emotionally satisfying either, unless they plan on turning it into a zombie apocalypse version of Oz.

[AngelaHunter]

On 11/5/2019 at 5:21 AM, icemiser69 said:

Kelly killing that animal was bad enough.

Someone in charge on this show hates animals. They had her stun that pig for no purpose and then we had to look at it gasping before she stabbed it,. Of course people and all other predators have to kill to survive but that pig was killed for no reason at all except  to feed the walkers and because someone likes seeing animals die nasty deaths. It's too late to say "Stop killing animals for nothing."

[AngelaHunter]

17 minutes ago, rmontro said:

Also, everyone from the original group committed "crimes".  Remember when Carl murdered that kid in the woods?  Is everyone supposed to be locked up?  That wouldn't be emotionally satisfying either, unless they plan on turning it into a zombie apocalypse version of Oz.

The bolded part: 😂

Of course nearly everyone has killed to stay alive. The killing doesn't bother me much because it's often necessary. The raping and torture are what bother me since they are not necessary to preserve life. Those are acts performed by someone who gets turned on by doing them.

[Mr. Sparkle]

8 hours ago, rmontro said:

a zombie apocalypse version of Oz.

I would totally watch this. 

[heisenberg]

15 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

The bolded part: 😂

Of course nearly everyone has killed to stay alive. The killing doesn't bother me much because it's often necessary. The raping and torture are what bother me since they are not necessary to preserve life. Those are acts performed by someone who gets turned on by doing them.

That's what I am saying from the start, writers messed up because of this.  They knew they wanted to reedeem him so I would have gone easy on those parts.  I don't even care about the head bashing because Rick and his gang killed Negan's gang while they were asleep, wich was also an abomination.

[AngelaHunter]

25 minutes ago, heisenberg said:

They knew they wanted to reedeem him so I would have gone easy on those parts. 

But the torture and rape is a big part of Kirkman's fantasy.

This monster/sex offender, thoroughly enjoying verbally and mentally tormenting a crying young girl, manipulating her so he can screw her, is alone enough reason for no redemption.🤢

Edited November 7, 2019 by AngelaHunter

[OoohMaggie]

1 hour ago, heisenberg said:

I don't even care about the head bashing because Rick and his gang killed Negan's gang while they were asleep, wich was also an abomination.

Negan’s reaction to the killing of what, fifty odd of his people can only be described as lenient. Abraham would have been the only penalty payable for those fifty odd deaths, in Negan’s position would I have thought that reasonable? Would I hell.

I’m not excusing the awful way he treated the girls, or the other innocents that felt trapped within his regime, it’s just the awful writing that’s to blame, on the one hand he’s so concerned about the truth, justice and people being a resource, yet with the other hand he’s launching the Doc into the furnace based upon what evidence?

His whole attitude to Coral sums things up, one minute he’s the son I never had, the next I’m putting a bat through the back of his skull.

Edited November 7, 2019 by OoohMaggie

[heisenberg]

3 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

But the torture and rape is a big part of Kirkman's fantasy.

This monster/sex offender, thoroughly enjoying verbally and mentally tormenting a crying young girl, manipulating her so he can screw her, is alone enough reason for no redemption.🤢

A photo-novel of the WD?  WTF?  I just can't imagine my mother reading that, she would have a stroke!😂

[heisenberg]

2 hours ago, OoohMaggie said:

Negan’s reaction to the killing of what, fifty odd of his people can only be described as lenient. Abraham would have been the only penalty payable for those fifty odd deaths, in Negan’s position would I have thought that reasonable? Would I hell.

I’m not excusing the awful way he treated the girls, or the other innocents that felt trapped within his regime, it’s just the awful writing that’s to blame, on the one hand he’s so concerned about the truth, justice and people being a resource, yet with the other hand he’s launching the Doc into the furnace based upon what evidence?

His whole attitude to Coral sums things up, one minute he’s the son I never had, the next I’m putting a bat through the back of his skull.

Yep!  That is what bad writing is,  and they think the viewers are too dumb to notice it.  I did, but now I act like I don't remember because I wanna see Negan go full leather jacket on those whisperers...  Who don't make sense either because Alpha is killing more of her gang than anybody else.

[AngelaHunter]

40 minutes ago, heisenberg said:

A photo-novel of the WD?

A transcription of what Kirkman wrote, but leaving out all the "fucks" of course. Can't have that.

[walnutqueen]

3 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

but leaving out all the "fucks" of course. Can't have that.

Sorry, but in a Zombie Apocalypse, "fuck" (or some version thereof) seems to be the only logical word to describe just about everything.

[mightysparrow]

Turning off the radio before Carol came on was a smart move on Ezekiel's part.  He doesn't need someone like her in his life, especially now that he's probably dying.  Carol would find a way to make his illness ALL ABOUT HER, and the King deserves better than that.

I'm hoping that Ezekiel and Michonne get closer.  I don't believe that it will be anything romantic.  God forbid that two Black people get together on this show, especially when one of them is St. Rick's widow.  But Michonne is a good friend to have.

I also hope that Ezekiel confides in Jerry.  Ezekiel needs more Jerry in his life and so does this show.  Jerry would definitely be there for his King.

[AngelaHunter]

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

  That doesn't seem like a smart thing to do. 

I don't recall seeing him doing anything that could be called smart or intelligent or careful. He's an idiot, basically. An idiot with a baseball bat.

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

but that wouldn't have happened if Daryl and Carol had reigned in Henry.

Carol wasn't there and I never thought Daryl should have to babysit that moron who was old enough to have more sense. I find it hard to imagine that teenagers who grew up post-ZA still act like babies but they all seem to.

[rmontro]

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Carol is of no use anymore.  I hate the character with a passion.  Her anger towards the Whisperers is understandable, but all of that was caused by her not controlling Henry. 

I just kept thinking that we want to see Carol kicking ass, not becoming addicted to pills and such.  You've got a good character there, you know what people like about her, don't over-complicate it.

[AngelaHunter]

46 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Whether Nagen is supposed to be a gimpy old dude with a potty mouth Fonzie complex at this point, I don't know.

Yah, I don't know either. He's not looking very spry.

47 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

At a minimum she should have checked on Henry to see how he was doing.

Maybe she was just secretly relieved to make the irritating little shit someone else's problem.

47 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

After scrubbing all of that crap off, we might just find out that isn't Daryl after all.

😂😁😄 Could be!

[amazinglybored]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

Was being with Ezekiel just a fling for her or was there something more to it?  She sure seemed to dump him quick after Henry was piked.

It was serious but the super important time jump they totally needed skipped a lot of it. Henry dying finished them off and maybe they were growing apart (I can’t remember) but the show skipped over most of the relationship.

3 hours ago, rmontro said:

I just kept thinking that we want to see Carol kicking ass, not becoming addicted to pills and such.  You've got a good character there, you know what people like about her, don't over-complicate it.

Yeah. This show doesn’t have much left other than letting the badasses be badasses, but that would take attention away from Negan and make a Alpha seem even more pointless. I’ll take a Carol, Daryl and Michonne road trip to kill alpha and see new places.

[nodorothyparker]

Carol and Zeke were together at the beginning of last season, which the showrunners indicated was somewhere in the ballpark of a year and a half after the end of the Savior war.  Then they skipped ahead a good six years after Rick went trip trip tripping off that bridge.  So that's a 7-8 year marriage.  We just didn't get to see much of it thanks to all the hopping around in time.

Lots of relationships don't survive the death of a child.  Grief sometimes takes ugly forms.  It is what it is.  When they went their separate ways Carol said something to the effect of "thanks for the fairy tale," which I thought probably as good an indicator as any of how she compartmentalized it.  She thought the Kingdom and everything that went with with it were a fairy tale in the beginning and then she allowed herself to be won over by the sunny-natured good looking guy with the replacement family that kept all the ugliness of life in the ZA at bay for awhile.  Henry was an annoying teenage shit, (Which, show me a teenager who isn't and the kid wasn't exactly firing on all cylinders to start with.  Even grown Saviors thought he was nuts.) but his death shattered that fairy tale for her and brought all the ugliness of the ZA rushing back in.  So she did what she does and retreated into herself.  I guess I don't see it all that differently from when she opted out at the start of the Savior war to go read books by the fire for awhile even if the motivations are different.