S11.E02: Pappa Mia

[FormerMod-a1]

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When Grace admits she's not sure who's the father of her baby, Karen orchestrates a "Mamma Mia" situation with the potential baby daddies. Will worries what will happen if he has a straight son and enlists Jack to help him prepare.

Original airdate: October 31, 2019

[greekmom]

The whole Will will be a great dad was a repeat.  I remember a scene which Will and Jack were driving and Will had to hit the brakes hard and he did the mom arm with Jack.  Why redo??

While I love Grace and Karen singing Mama Mia, I hated the Grace storyline.

I think I maybe out at this point.

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, greekmom said:

While I love Grace and Karen singing Mama Mia, I hated the Grace storyline.

I did like a couple of the jokes about the guys, like comparing that one to Steve Buscemi. But yeah, this whole thing with Grace is messy, to say the least. 

And the Will and Jack story may have been a rehash, but I still liked it, just 'cause I like their interaction in general. I also liked them talking about the whole "fake girlfriend" thing they used to do when they were younger. 

[link417]

Karen is a goddamn treasure, I’m really going to miss her.

I’m glad they let Grace run wild in Europe, I get so tired of double standards when it comes to women and sex.

I like that she has decided to raise the child on her own, but I don’t agree with not knowing who the father is. What if the child grows up and wants to know? Does she expect the kid to pull a real-life (heh, I know) “Mama Mia”?

I’m sad this is the final final season, but I’m happy I got the chance to enjoy this show and these characters again.

[Cherpumple]

I just can't wrap my head around this reboot. How in the world did that whole Will and Jack storyline play out without a single mention of Elliott - you know, Jack's straight sports-loving son? Especially since Jack and Will attended at least one of his games together. And Elliott even appeared in a previous season of the reboot, so we know he exists in this wacky timeline. What the heck?

I'm really not on board with the Grace pregnancy story. Why do the show-runners think that viewers will get all excited about this plot, when we've already seen it years ago? Why should I care about this baby, when they retconned the last two out of existence with a couple lines of dialogue? Stupid. And I'm appalled that she threw away the DNA samples. That seems massively irresponsible and short-sighted. But I guess that's in-character for Grace.

I have enough nostalgia for this show to keep watching for now, and it still has some fun moments, but with the direction things are going, I won't be sad to say goodbye again at the end of this season. 

[Harvey]

I am just so HAPPY it did not turn out that Marcus is the father of Grace's kid. I know I shouldn't, but ever since his role on Veep, I just despise that actor and anything he is in. He was just too awful on an untolerable level. So it's a relief I don't have to see more of him on a beloved show like this.

The joke about Grace turning yet another guy gay was hilarious, loved that 😄

[KWalkerInc]

3 hours ago, link417 said:

I like that she has decided to raise the child on her own, but I don’t agree with not knowing who the father is.

At the very least, she should know the father's identity in case there is anything in the medical history that could affect the child.  That's why I was annoyed when the studio audience got so excited by Grace's speech.

[aemom]

Line of the episode: "Steve Buscemi on his best day ever."

Was one of those guys the one she had sex with in the tractor scoop? If not, then Karen missed one.

I'm also not happy with this pregnancy storyline and I still don't see Jack and Estefan together. 

I do always enjoy the physical comedy on this show and Jack jumping down the garbage chute after "Cher" was hilarious. 

[snorca]

I hate the baby storyline. I can't stand Estefan. I am hoping it is menopause. And, does anyone think there is any significance at all that one of the possible fathers is named Marcus which was Leo's real name?

[joanne3482]

How could they do a DNA test on a baby that isn't born yet without using a doctor? I don't think this is medically possible, which annoyed me the whole episode.  And how did Karen find these guys at all? I know she has more money than sense, but she wouldn't even know WHERE in Europe Grace was.  Maybe Karen followed on Instagram... I don't know. 

I did like Jack and Will. Their friendship has evolved so nicely. 

[FormerMod-a1]

I also thought throwing out the dna test was stupid.  Even if they don't want to reveal to us who the father is, she should still know.  Or have the option of knowing.  

[Harvey]

1 hour ago, aquarian1 said:

I also thought throwing out the dna test was stupid.  Even if they don't want to reveal to us who the father is, she should still know.  Or have the option of knowing.  

Will will be the father and that's that on that. 🤱

[iMonrey]

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I think I maybe out at this point.

I'll watch to the bitter end because I love these characters, and I still find the show funnier than most of the other sitcoms on TV right now. That said, I can't understand the direction they're taking in this last season. They seem to be going down the exact same path they were going during the final season of the original run, which they have completely ret-conned, and I don't get the point of that at all.

My best guess is that maybe there's a contingency of fans, or a contingency of the current writers, who believe Will and Grace should have wound up together raising a child together. I mean, that was something they explored more than once in the original show, and what ultimately led to them having a falling out. Maybe there are some people out there who think that was a big mistake and they should have wound up together raising a kid. I don't know, that's all I've got.

I did love the trio of potential fathers, especially the young kid who came back and invited Grace to his frat formal. "It's at the Spaghetti Factory." "What time?" Classic Grace.

[Blakeston]

4 hours ago, aquarian1 said:

I also thought throwing out the dna test was stupid.  Even if they don't want to reveal to us who the father is, she should still know.  Or have the option of knowing.  

Her kid should have the option of knowing, too.

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

My best guess is that maybe there's a contingency of fans, or a contingency of the current writers, who believe Will and Grace should have wound up together raising a child together. I mean, that was something they explored more than once in the original show, and what ultimately led to them having a falling out. Maybe there are some people out there who think that was a big mistake and they should have wound up together raising a kid. I don't know, that's all I've got.

Damn, I'll bet you're right. McCoy has been shown to be pretty flakey and shallow. I won't be surprised at all if he bails on the adoption somehow, and then Will and Grace end up raising Grace's kid themselves.

I never liked the way the series ended. I hated the idea of Will and Grace going decades without seeing one another. And I hated the idea that their kids would get married - it felt almost like the show was saying, "What really matters is that in the end, two straight people got together."

But I don't want to see Will and Grace parenting the same child, either. I'd have the utmost sympathy for anyone raised by such a toxic pair.

[iMonrey]

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I never liked the way the series ended. I hated the idea of Will and Grace going decades without seeing one another. And I hated the idea that their kids would get married - it felt almost like the show was saying, "What really matters is that in the end, two straight people got together."

Hmm. I kind of liked the way the show ended. It proved they were so comfortable and co-dependent on each other that neither was able to commit to a romantic relationship with anyone else. In the end they both wound up with what they always wanted but couldn't do it while they were tethered to each other. It was kind of poignant really.

In one of the final episodes there was a dream sequence where they had raised a child together and both resented each other for keeping them from the lives they thought they wanted. That seemed to be a refutation against the idea that they should raise a child together as co-parents.

That said, I think it was sort of a faulty premise and unsupported conclusion that they would have to forego romantic partnerships with others in order to co-parent a child. Maybe that's the "course correction" the show is now attempting to make.

[TVbitch]

Will have had "fake girlfriends" in grade school? I thought he was in denial about being gay until college, when he was dating Grace. 

I can't believe the actors signed off on these scripts. They must know they are really lacking in creativity, warmth and humor. I think the network probably looked at these first few episodes, and that's why it was cancelled.

I really love these characters too, and am sad for it to end this way.  

[Blakeston]

On 11/1/2019 at 4:15 PM, iMonrey said:

Hmm. I kind of liked the way the show ended. It proved they were so comfortable and co-dependent on each other that neither was able to commit to a romantic relationship with anyone else. In the end they both wound up with what they always wanted but couldn't do it while they were tethered to each other. It was kind of poignant really.

In one of the final episodes there was a dream sequence where they had raised a child together and both resented each other for keeping them from the lives they thought they wanted. That seemed to be a refutation against the idea that they should raise a child together as co-parents.

That said, I think it was sort of a faulty premise and unsupported conclusion that they would have to forego romantic partnerships with others in order to co-parent a child. Maybe that's the "course correction" the show is now attempting to make.

That's the thing - if Will and Grace were so toxic together that they couldn't have successful romantic relationships while being friends with each other, then how did they maintain their friendship after their kids got together? Grace was presumably still with Leo, and Will was presumably still with Vince.

[iMonrey]

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That's the thing - if Will and Grace were so toxic together that they couldn't have successful romantic relationships while being friends with each other, then how did they maintain their friendship after their kids got together? Grace was presumably still with Leo, and Will was presumably still with Vince.

Presumably they needed that 20 year break from each other in order to form lasting bonds with their respective partners. It was only then that they were able to be friends again without jeopardizing their relationships with their significant others, which were well established by that point. The issue was that they never really put the effort into romantic relationships with others because they were fulfilling most of each other's needs themselves. It was just easier to fall back into old patterns when they had each other to fall back on.