msani19

Your post was really interesting. I wonder how much of the change in Carrie (early season versus late season) is due to the early season Carrie having the book as source material and then later season Carrie was based on SJP input and less so based on the book? Yes, for a sex columnist, the later season Carrie was ridiculously judgemental and closed-minded.

I liked this season. I worry about the outcome of the relationship between Dylan and Evie as well, but the show did need to have them together. I agree that maybe they did it too early? Dylan is a mess! Love him, but what the hell do you want fella! As much as women get shit for making everyone they date (or sleep with) the proverbial “one”, Dylan does exactly that. The notion of being in love with love. So is Evie the woman the one who will keep him from that search? Maybe, maybe not. My heart broke for Abigail. That relationship was destined to fail only because of his unresolved feelings and also because he refused to just let the “idea” of Evie go and be in the relationship with Abigail. I think that it’s going to be one of those right person, wrong time relationships. He wasn’t ready, correction, he wasn’t prepared to be ready to be with her and did what he thought was right, which ultimately ended up hurting her far more. Sigh…been there. I found Dylan’s reaction to Evie’s old BF quite interesting. She dated Angus and he knew Mal, and probably many of her other BFs, what bothered him about this one? Was it that he didn’t know about him? There are old relationships that we don’t talk about for many reasons – too painful, not a person you want to remember, bad breakup etc. I’m curious why he reacted as he did and if that’s going somewhere. Angus was a pure delight! I just love the hell out of him. His earnestness is infectious. He looked so familiar to me but after checking his IMDB I haven’t seen him in anything else. I guess he just has one of those faces. I hope he ends up happy. He’s the guy who will move heaven and earth for his family. Luke and Jonesy has promise. Luke really does want to settle down into something real. All his frivolous encounters are his way of avoiding thinking about what he wants and why he’s afraid of having it. Obviously, the idea of losing someone you love is heartbreaking but love comes with that risk. I really enjoy the show and hope we get at least one more season. I think that they can wrap it up in another 8-episode season.

OMG! I totally forgot about that! She wanted to marry Frank? Yikes, then this is all on her!

Well, there are reasons that I can think of...He was lovely, got to thank his wife this time and gave a great speech. He's a wonderful actor. There's a great Instagram of him getting a kiss from his wife and his tv wife. The captions says "The wives". The look on his face is just adorable.

I'll add her that she's a terrible writer - "I couldn't help but wonder . . . .", then follow that with something completely inane and not profound

For Marie, I bet that was by design. She had each of her sons hopelessly dependent on her in their own way. Ray, as her eternally spoiled baby and Robert, as constantly striving for her attention. Ugh, that woman had some real problems. Sometimes, I feel sorry for her because she really had nothing else in her world. I'm sure that for her particular generation of women (there were plenty of women that that point who worked outside the home), she didn't have many outlets available to her beyond children and husband. But then she starts with her antics and that sympathy goes out the window. None of that excuses her cruelty and pettiness.

Blech. Another of Carrie's most fucked up moments! She was so consumed by the guilt of her horrible behavior she couldn't wait one freaking second. Although, she could just have easily blurted it out during the ceremony, so maybe we can give her some credit for her restraint /sarcasm I would enjoy seeing a list of all of Carrie's terrible moments so that we can re-hash them. We already talked about bullying Charlotte about the money and then this one with Charlotte's wedding. - Harassing Nastaha for forgiveness after contributing to the destruction of the marriage and agonizing over WHY won't she forgive me - you're a horrible person - Clearly, cheating on Aiden - she didn't deserve him -Reuniting with Aiden, accepting his proposal and refusing to wear the engagement ring on her finger like a normal mature human being - GTFOH here with that wearing it around your neck nonsense. - Sending Aiden over to Miranda's instead of going herself after Miranda needed her help and poor Miranda is naked and not expecting to see her asshole friends' boyfriend - so selfish. What was her lame reason again? I mean at least let Miranda know it was going to be Aiden and not you. She was naked onthe bathroom floor for christ sakes! - Apologizing to Miranda with bagels - I always imagine that they were stale, dry ass bagels cause even getting a peace-offering gift was probably an after thought -Inviting Big to come out to Aiden's house - why? WHY? -The constant shrieking. What the eff was that shit? It made me out of my mind insane. I know that's not quite an "asshole" moment, I just found it to be a terrible character trait :-) - That ridiculous " You have to forgive me!" bit - no chick he does not have to do anything like that. You're lucky he even listened to you and I can't believe he even considered getting back together with you. - Her complete irresponsibility with money - this one irks me so much! I also like nice things (who doesn't like nice things!) but I save and plan for them. Her shoe collection may have seemed enviable but those shoes aren't practical and city streets will destroy them! - Her slut shaming Sam after seeing her give a BJ to the UPS/FedEx guy - Sam didn't judge you for having a freaking affair which objectively is leaps and bounds worse than giving a random guy a BJ, and you have the nerve to give her shit? Lord, Sam is a way better person than me, cause she would have been read for filth. That's my starting list....while I'm sitting at my desk typing furiously so it looks like I'm working hard, I need to do some actual work!

I love that he won! Aziz Ansari won the 2018 Golden Globe for Best Actor in a TV series, Musical or Comedy. the first Asian-American to do so in Globes history. It's 2018 and I can't believe there are still so many firsts to be had.

Bravo @Ms Blue Jay I agree wholeheartedly. I have a list of the most fucked up things Carrie did during the show and that one ranks as close to the top as any other thing she did. She was disgusting in her behavior with Charlotte and Charlotte EARNED that money just surviving that bizarre marriage in which she gave up a lot. How Carrie had any friends left after some of her antics astonishes me. She seems like the kind of person who could make friends but keeping them is another matter altogether. She is thoughtless, judgemental, petty, small-minded, selfish, rude, and self-centered (x 1000!). I wouldn't put up with her. No way in hell am I bailing out a friend who literally spent herself into poverty and has no ability to figure out her next step without whining & demanding money from her friends. BTW, Carrie, your next step was TO MOVE, you can't afford that place and wasn't it even rent-stabilized? She's the worst. Miranda and Samantha were high-income professionals who must have paid attention to their money, even while having fun and enjoying life. The fact that they could even make such an offer to bail Carrie out, means they had money set aside unlike Carrie. My mantra for giving money to friends or anyone is to never give money you cant afford to lose. With someone like Carrie, I would NEVER see ONE CENT BACK EVER. She's a nightmare. Plus, she still didn't seem to learn anything from bullying Charlotte for that money, did she start saving? Adjust her spending? Nope. She's a jerk. I even wanted to pretend that when she got her hands on BIG'S money that she paid Charlotte back, but it's Carrie, so that wouldn't have happened. Yeah, I'll never get tired of talking about how awful Carrie is either. It's actually quite cathartic!

What I think is particularly horrible about Marie is that she would have loved for Ray and Debra to have split up, then she could have Ray all to herself. Plus she'd have tried to take the kids away from Debra as well.

I couldn't agree more!

I agree that it seems that it's mind-boggling that there are people who refuse to engage in oral! But to each his or her own. I do think that TV shows like to make it out to be this elusive, men must beg for all the time, so it plays well as a nice narrative tool. I can think of one thing that would probably fall into the women would rarely, if not never do category than oral! But that's something TV hardly ever depicts... Even though even if Doug/Deacon had great sex lives and this was the ONE thing they didn't get. Boo-hoo.

Just wow...awful! I can't imagine that those clothes were attractive at the time but now....good lord! He's quite a good looking man and that's what you choose to wear!

Last year, I detested Adam. This year, he seems quite likable (so far), he started out pretty well last season and then they just proceeded to make his character so unpleasant. I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop and he goes back to being annoying!

Completely agree with this. In the hands of a less capable actor, Niles would have been contemptible and not such a well-liked character. I find Niles to be beyond creepy in regards to Daphne.

Bonnie was really unpleasant this episode. Her reactions to Adam and his money or potential money was uncomfortable and just not funny. I just think 2017 has worn me down or I'm losing my sense of humor. When Adam has become more enjoyable than Bonnie, something has gone off the rails. Good: The two actors playing brothers were believable enough that I could buy they were related.

I didn't mind her character but those facial expressions were over the top! They seem to get worse the longer she's on the show.

Me too

Add in the upteen Flip or Flop versions, I've stopped watching. I loved all everything else you stated. You're not alone!

I've gone back and forth on whether Daphne knew about how Niles felt or not. I think she did on some level, but as her boss' brother and son she was in an uncomfortable position to completely reject him -- like I think she would have otherwise -- and the way Roz would have absolutely shut Niles down. In light of the conversations we are having today about employment and power dynamics, I'm viewing the way Niles treated Daphne even less favorably than I already did. I'm not sure if I sensed some element of that when I hated how Niles interacted with Daphne from my initial viewing (which is from close to the initial rum of the show). Even if Niles wasn't her direct employer, how would Fraiser have handled a situation in which Daphne definitively shut Niles down and he reacted badly to it? Would he have picked "sides"? How would that have played out? That's a really hard dynamic for a 30-minute sit-com to address. One of the show writers Ken Levine has a blog and he does answer questions about Cheers, Fraiser and other shows he wrote for. I sent him a LENGTHY email about my issues with Niles and Daphne and I'd love to see if he ever discusses it and what the writers thought about the characters at the time. Anyway, back to my point, I do think Daphne knew Niles had some interest in her beyond friendship but she ignored it for the sake of her job and the actual friendship she wanted to have with Niles. He's lovely when he's not being creepy...oh wow, again in light of the conversations today, how many people are looking at men they have known and thinking "but he seems like such a good guy"...this is getting too heavy for my beloved Fraiser! What could she do other than ignore him, also factoring in that he was married for the first several years they knew each other I do think Niles was "in love AT" Daphne and not her whole self. Yes, he knew things about her but I feel like he used those things to manipulate her feelings. I remember when he brought over some clotted cream and pretended he didn't know she loved clotted cream. It's supposed to be seen as romantic but I see it as creepy and manipulative. As for Niles and Roz, I do think that had remarkable chemistry, far more than Niles and Daphne ever did. Roz would have been a good partner for Niles. I think it was a missed opportunity for the show to not capitalize on that actual chemistry and a true "opposites" relationship to see how each one could bring out the best in the other. I know it could never happen given that fans were clamoring for NILES AND DAPHNE. Maybe if they ever did a Fraiser reunion (please god no!), Roz and Niles are the married ones :-) (I feel like my thoughts are getting all jumbled together, so I'll stop here and add my many thoughts later!)

The show drove me crazy when it came to male and female dynamics. Specifically, with Amy's family...Peter was a freak and everyone knew it. He was Amy's older brother and lived in the basement, ran a comic book store (or used to?) and couldn't keep a relationship but his parents acted like it was the regular order of things. Amy, on the other hand. lived alone, had a good job (or at least some kinda job) but had to be married otherwise, she wasn't doing what she supposed to be doing. Plus she was beyond hysterical about getting married. Her entire point of existence in the show was the woman who had to get married. Robert isn't a guy I'd have wanted for my friend, but that's what we have to work with. It was Robert or nothing (in her mind). Ok, now I'll admit to some time in my life when I thought getting married was quite important as well, but it was short-lived. Mostly because I realized in order to be married I'd be settling and I was not prepared to do that just so other people would get off my freaking back about not being married! UGH. Society! I just turned 45 (gulp) and I'm happily not married although in a long-term relationship and I do not plan on getting married anytime soon. It does take time to work up to that "I don't give an EFF" stage in life. Anyway. everything about the way the show portrayed women and the desire to get married, from Amy to Debra and Marie wanting Robert to just get married to Amy already drove me crazy. The nice thing was that Amy and Robert did have a fun wedding expect for attention starved, insecure, emotionally empty Marie had to try to ruin it.

I agree so much with this. The worse they made Donny and Mel, but particularly Mel (I hate the shrewish, scorned woman trope), the less I wanted for Daphne and Niles to be together. Well, I was never a fan of them in the first place, but that story arc really soured me on them long-term. I expected better from the writers than to try to push the "You guys, Mel and Donny are the worst! Of course, Daphne and Niles belong together". Sorry, no. That's not how it works. Two perfectly nice people were deeply hurt by their actions, and they wanted to act like they were being unreasonable and wanted it to just go away. I thought they had more integrity and sympathy than the type of people who could be so callous, well at least Daphne seemed like a decent human being. Their relationship just never "felt" right to me. But I could never buy into them anyway (I have typed many, many words of this topic and feel like I can continue to discuss it!) I feel like the writers were damned if they did and damned if they didn't, so they went with what they thought would make more fans happy. Sadly, t heir execution was awful. Once we get past that first year or so of them together, I can mostly tolerate watching them. Yup. Appalling writing.

I kinda loved the evolution argument cause I think a lot of it - to me felt like it - was Pheobe just messing with Ross. I don't know if she truly cared one way or the other, but getting Ross worked up...worth it. I'd have done it if I was in her shoes. He's so insufferable.

She's gonna be a Princess! Well, a Duchess but I'll take it anyway it gets's dished it out. They really do look so happy! It was delightful. Plus the interview, he proposed over roast chicken (please let that be true...and inspire my BF the next time I make roast chicken!). I'm such an unromantic woman, but that did touch my heart. While "Rachel" got on my last nerve on the show, I still remember thinking "OMG she's SO stunning!" when I first saw her on the show. Never thought she'd become part of the British Royal Family!

Very interesting post! From my perspective, I'm sure most of the gay jokes wouldn't fly today. Mostly because "we", as a society, just don't think those things are funny anymore, no that they really ever were funny. The hysterical way the guys reacted to certain things (aka "gay panic") is just beyond ridiculous. OMG, you're wearing a pink shirt! OMG, you guys touched! OMG, you're acting like a "girl" - horror! I'm not sure that having a writer who is gay on the show at the time made the jokes ok. It's like saying well the show had a black writer so the racially charged jokes were ok...and @WildStyle I'm not in ANY WAY SUGGESTING THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE SAYING!! I really get what you mean. It's the sense that while we think the joke uncomfortable or maybe a little off, however, if we see the object or target of the group laughing, then we might feel ok laughing too. This is why the jokes wouldn't fly today, there's nothing funny about them because the show’s treatment of LGBTQ issues is awful and obsolete.