Maximum Taco

Agreed. At the meeting in the Dragonpit it seems just ridiculous to have no one speak for her. Yohn Royce and Robin Arryn turned over all their armies to her, her Uncle is Lord Paramount of the Riverlands, and her brother has already refused the Lordship of Winterfell. Tyrion himself should be backing Sansa for the crown, he knows her better then Bran and can see that she has experience ruling the North, and yet for some reason he chooses Bran because "Oh that's a cool story. Crippled King! Hey I can call him Bran the Broken!!!" Really if her goal was the Iron Throne, Sansa should have cultivated enough support in that room to control a good deal of the voting block. She should be able to count on her own vote, Arya's, Brienne's, Bronze Yohn's and Robin Arryn's at minimum. Personally I was expecting someone to nominate Sansa and have her turn down the crown in favor of Northern Independence. Sansa doesn't want the Iron Throne, she doesn't want to be in King's Landing. Her whole story is about coming home, but a little acknowledgement to her worthiness to be the Queen would be nice.

It's doubtful that he will. He's been pretty firm that he's not going to change his ending to suit other people. Here's a quote from an interview he did in 2012 I wouldn't count on GRRM to change the ending because the fans are upset. This is his story and he's always kind of beat that drum, he says he doesn't like fanfiction because he doesn't like people playing in his sandbox, so why would he let fan response dictate his writing? I don't think he feels like he owes anything to his readers, other then gratitude that they bought his book and liked it.

I'm pretty sure he's a Blackfyre. I'm not sure if it will ever be discovered though.

I'd change Daario to alive. His risk of dying is no higher than anyone else's, in fact I'd probably give him a higher chance then most, and the last time we saw him he was alive. Like he's not going to defend that city with his life and he's not going to enforce Dany's rule with his life either. As soon as things start to go rocky he's gonna peace out back to a sellsword's life.

From the Book Spoiler episode thread... Personally I think Young Griff is gonna end up with either Arianne Martell or Margaery Tyrell (before being killed by Dany) Just because that whole Dorne/Highgarden/Targaryen alliance has to come from somewhere. That really seems like it was going somewhere in the show, but then they died very unceremoniously. It makes sense to me that in the books they will both be allied with Young Griff, and then they will be killed by Daenerys. Arianne makes sense cause Doran seems determined to wed the Martells to the Targaryens by any means he can. Margaery makes sense because it kind of runs with her black widow theme if she's wed to three kings and they all die in youth. I think Sansa is gonna end up with Winterfell, but it's easily possible Rickon does as well. His death felt like it was just pure shock value in the show, like a lot of the things in the show.

Snip. Taking it to Book vs. Show, cause that feels like where this belongs.

I do believe the ending will be basically the same. But key changes are gonna be made so they are more acceptable/believable. Dany mad and then dead, but her descent is gonna be slow and arduous, and will end with her as a kinslayer (Aegon is a mummers dragon but I think the books might let Dany believe she killed her nephew) Jon in the Night's Watch, but I think in the books the threat of the Others won't be destroyed as absolutely as it was in the show. I think they'll push the Others back, but either know they are coming back or think they might be coming back, so the Night's Watch will have a purpose for existing. Bran as King, but he won't be an emotionless shell like he is in the show. Usually D&D don't go far enough with these changes, Jon and Beric barely change with their resurrections, I think with Bran they went too far. I expect him to still be more Bran Stark and less 3EC in the books. Arya on a ship, but perhaps to Braavos instead of across the Sea of Death? Also she'll have an arc where she becomes a vengeance driven murder machine before working her way back to a more healthy place, instead of flipping back and forth from murder machine to relatively normal girl and back again and again. Sansa as Queen in the North, but with a more organic growth where she actually learns to play the game. Cersei dead in Jaime's arms, but Jaime is the one who actively kills her before committing suicide, or dying himself directly after. Everyone ends up where they do in the show, but it's just a bit more believable and sensical. But yeah, Darkstar can go fuck himself. GRRM keeps want everyone to like that edgelord. Everyone hates Darkstar George, just accept it.

Really? After watching this train wreck of a season I think that the plots from AFFC and ADWD are more integral than ever to the conclusion of the books. Removing these plots destroyed every character. The existence of Aegon/Young Griff especially is necessary for Dany, Tyrion, and Varys to move forward in a believable manner without just saying that they all had strokes and went crazy/stupid. His existence is also necessary for Cersei and Jaime's plotline to conclude in a way that makes sense and isn't just Cersei looking out a window for several months. Dany's storyline in Meereen is necessary because this is the point where her coin begins to flip. It's not in an instance at 'The Bells' it's a long process, and her actions in Meereen lead her to choose war over peace. Sansa's storyline in the Vale is necessary for her growth so she doesn't have to do character development via rape. Arya's storyline in Braavos is necessary so she doesn't just magically get everything she needs without suffering and work. And also so she doesn't flip back and forth from normal girl to psychopath and back again every couple episodes. Bran's storyline in the cave is necessary so he doesn't go from Bran to 3ER in a way that drains him of all the charisma necessary to be a good king or an interesting character.

The visuals in this episode were spellbinding. Cinematography came to play. It's a shame writing has been phoning it in for a few years now.

I disagree. The one thing GRRM won't shut up about is how much he argued for Lady Stoneheart and how her omission is the biggest thing that upset him about the show (to be fair that was before this season.) and that he considers her a major part of The Winds of Winter. Lady Stoneheart is already involved in Brienne and Jaime's story, not sure if you consider them A-List characters or not. I wouldn't be surprised if she becomes involved in Arya's storyline as well. Book Arya is on this path to becoming a soulless killing machine obsessed with vengeance, with little to no morals. I can see a lot of mirrors in that story with the path Lady Stoneheart has taken. Arya in the show is frankly just a mess of a character. She was on this path, but then it seems like the showrunners would be afraid we'd stop liking her so she's no longer willing to kill people she doesn't know and she gets the early season Dany treatment and only kills bad dudes who personally wronged her. But somehow she's still enough of a sociopath to personally and without help dismember two men and bake them into a pie. And then she's ready to kill her sister, but then she's all about family, but then she doesn't care about her family anymore and is happy to leave them forever and never return.

Maybe Ned's response when Arya asks if Bran will ever be a knight? Bran is the lord of a great holdfast, he will likely raise the Red Keep again, and he does sit on the King's Council as King. Arya is sailing a ship across the Sunset Sea If Rickon doesn't die in the books perhaps he will become High Septon?

I mean, her clothing definitely implies that she's creating distance between herself and anyone else. But when Bran is suggested for King, one of her main objections is that he can't have heirs, if she means to be Queen of her own Kingdom, she must also be aware that it's an issue for her as well if she is deliberately choosing to remain unmarried.

Alright it's the cold light of day. Almost all those endings for our main characters felt dumb to me. Jon - I swear my life and honour to the Night's Watch, for no purpose whatsoever. He said it himself, why the fuck is there still a Night's Watch? No one is going to join the Night's Watch voluntarily now, there's no honor to be won by a bastard or a third son there anymore when they have no duty. So it's going to be mostly criminals, and none of those guys are gonna hold to their oaths. And who will hold them to those oaths? No honourable person is gonna become Lord Commander of the Masturbaters. Maybe the Starks will kill any deserters, but the Wildlings aren't going to. You may as well have just exiled him North of the Wall. That makes a heck of a lot more sense. Arya - "What's West of Westeros?" DEATH. Death is West of Westeros you colossally dumb fuck. No one has ever come back from the Sunset Sea, you know why? THEY DIED. They did not find a land of milk and honey and decided to stay forever. THEY MOTHERFUCKING DIED. Also you have absolutely NO FUCKING IDEA what you are doing sailing a ship. You have been on a ship exactly twice in your miserable life and now you are making a sea voyage from which NO ONE HAS EVER RETURNED. You guys fanwank all you want, Arya is dead. Bran - All hail King Bran. I'm gonna stick with my head canon that Bran is a magnificent bastard who always wanted to be King, and deliberately used his super powers to remove all obstacles between him and the crown. If that's not true, this ending is dumb. Sansa - The Queen in The North Ok. Yeah, this was fine. Sansa was very adamant about what she wanted, no one else wants this job, and she's proven to be good at it. The only good ending.

The issue with legitimizing bastards is it can cause issues of succession later on. Jon has sworn not to marry, hold lands and father children. Sure we can believe he'll hold to those vows, but after 10 years of living in the Rrrrrrreal North, what if he decides to just forget them and shack up with another kissed by fire wildling girl? I mean I have a hard time believing there's gonna be a super disciplined Night's Watch that has no actual duty. Without duty it's hard to believe that many will hold to their vows (especially when most Night's Watchmen would sneak off to Mole Town every so often when they did have a job.) Any bastard fathered by Jon could claim just as much legitimacy as any mothered by Sansa. Bran may be incapable of having children. I mean I don't know where that's coming from, he hasn't actually tried, and paralyzed people can still have sex. The plumbing still works even if there are issues. Arya has sailed to parts unknown, and yeah there's good reason to believe she isn't coming back because no one ever has come back from the Sunset Sea. (Seriously Arya is dumb, like just truly moronic. What's West of Westeros? DEATH. Death is West of Westeros you dummy.) But I mean she's only 20, she could easily still have a child who again could be just as legitimate as any of Sansa's children if they turn up in White Harbor with her Direwolf Ship. Or any of those above scenarios, and it's just someone lying about being a son/daughter of Jon/Arya/Bran. Or even Robb, I mean he's of the age where he could have a bastard son somewhere in the world. Someone could just lie and claim to be the Young Wolf's issue. Sansa's smart and knows this, I can't see her relying on a Queen's proclamation to legitimize her children, that backfired HARD on the Blackfyres. If she wants an heir I expect her to just marry someone who she knows she can control. There are plenty of Mace Tyrell style dummys in Westeros.

Agreed, when Dany takes King's Landing it's almost certainly going to be fAegon on the Iron Throne. This will also help to play into her villainous turn. It was easy for us to agree to her taking down Cersei, she's one of the most villainous people in the cast. But Aegon (as so far depicted) seems to be a very normal sort of boy.

The only way this would work is if the Kingdoms form a peaceful pact to defend and support each other. The problem before Aegon's conquering was that the Kingdoms would be in a constant state of war. The North, Dorne, The Vale and the Iron Islands are unique in the fact that they have easy defenses. North - The cold will keep most armies away in wintertime, the land that they need to travel is harsh and barren and difficult to wage war in, and there is a natural choke point to prevent land invasion at Moat Cailin. "Southerners don't do well up here." Dorne - The desert makes it difficult to wage war, the mountains act as a natural choke point making any land invaders go through the Prince's Pass or the Boneway. I mean when House symbols are the skulls of kings (House Manwoody of Kingsgrave) and House Mottos things like "No Foe Shall Pass" (House Allyrion of Godsgrace) or "We Guard The Way" (House Yronwood of Yronwood) you can tell a region is defensible. Also the Dornish have a natural aversion to being ruled (Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken) Vale - The mountains make it difficult to wage war, the Eyrie itself seems to be only conquerable if you happen to have a dragon (or other method of airborne assault.) The tribes of the mountain also will probably attack any army that comes through by land, even though they aren't friendly to the Valemen, they still act as a natural defense since the Valemen would just stay behind the Bloody Gate and let the hill tribes hack at their enemies. Iron Islands - The seas are a natural defense. But the issue for the Islanders is they need to rely on reaving, or allies in order to support themselves since the Islands are fairly barren (We Do Not Sow). Compare this to the Riverlands, Stormlands, Crownlands, Reach and Westerlands, no natural defenses, and most of these nations have several land borders with multiple other countries. They can't operate as independent kingdoms unless they want to be in a constant state of war, or they have allies they can trust.

"Or soon there won't be no more coin" "Any more." I gotta love that Davos has taken up Stannis' mantle of Master of Grammar. Your King would be proud Ser Davos. Also the most legitimate character development in the entire series is clearly Davos going from an illiterate smuggler to a man who corrects the grammar of the King's Small Council.

I don't think that's the case though. Bran did ruin Hodor's life, but that was something that was always done. Like Bloodraven tells him, you cannot change the past, the ink is dry. A good example is when he sees Ned at the Tower of Joy. The first time he visits he calls out for Ned and Ned turns around, the second time he visits he doesn't call out, but Ned still turns around. Bran can't change the past, anything he does is something that he's already done, he just doesn't know he's done it. In a way that has to be kind of liberating, Bran knows he can go back and dick around in the past all he likes, anything he does is something that has already been done, and no matter what he cannot change the past of the world he currently resides in.

Did they want 10 episodes at a hard cost and D&D said we can only do 6 episodes at that cost? Or did HBO write them a blank cheque and say "Go Wild." and they just decided to do 6? Honestly we can't know either way. I suspect that D&D just wanted to be done with it, but at the same time HBO must have given them a budget.

To be fair here, Tyrion (in the show) kills Shae in what could be argued is self defense. She was trying to stab him with a dagger. Now you could argue that maybe he could've disarmed her and not killed her, but it wasn't like the books where he kills her just cause he hates her. Melisandre has always been someone who is under the victory at all costs credo. She has to defeat the Great Other/Night King, and if that cost is one bastard with King's Blood, or a small girl who is heir to the throne, or anything, she is willing to pay it. There were no illusions with Meli IMO.

I don't think they were trying to save money persay, but I do think they had a budget, and this season was clearly the most expensive since the mains (Lena Headey, Peter Dinklage, Emilia Clarke, Kit Harington, NCW, Sophie Turner, Maisie Williams etc.) all needed to have new contracts since most standard contracts only go to season 7. And then they wanted to have 2 episodes with huge battles that required a lot of CGI in addition to a lot of extra work. So they cut the episode order in half in order to accommodate that. I think Season 8 probably had a comparable budget to previous seasons though. If it was feasible I think they should've done a Season 8 that just comprised the War for the Dawn, and kept this budget, and then had a Season 9 with a similar budget to wrap up on the fight for the Iron Throne. But they probably had a lot of issues with the cast getting to be too big to afford.

I think a proclivity towards violence does make you mad. I'm not saying this one act should've been a "Oh damn, she crazy" moment for anyone, but it's not just one act with Dany. It's a pattern of behavior. Other people do commit horribly brutal acts, but the only one who does so with regularity and is still seen as more heroic than villainous is Arya, and I'd argue the show did a disservice to that character too by not depicting her as messed up as she actually is.

Easter Eggs aren't supposed to be obvious things that are pointed to. In Iron Man you see Capt. America's shield in the background for a few seconds, in Iron Man 2 Tony Stark uses it as a strut to level a coil. He doesn't pick it up and go "HOLY FUCK CAPT. AMERICA'S SHIELD!!!" In Detective Pikachu the main character doesn't get a phone call from Professor Oak, instead you see a sign that says OAK outside a building for a couple seconds. Talking about it, and having a whole scene devoted to it, makes it a plot point and not an Easter Egg.

That's a shitty reward.

The problems start when D&D run out of book material, or decide to skip over entire portions in favor of other portions (Lady Stoneheart for weird Beric story that goes nowhere.), or insert characters into story arcs where they they don't belong (read: Sansa into Jeyne Poole's story) But the quest in this thread is to fix Season 8, I assume that means we can't go back and rewrite previous seasons.