KerleyQ

You know Ron just views that as a challenge. He clearly hasn't broken your spirit enough yet.

I say the new story with Robin returning at the NB this year, but either would be good. And don't worry that you're "hogging" the forum. There's no saying someone else couldn't be posting their stories at the same time you're doing yours.

Which is why I said the HWs need to consider the actor's input. I never said they had to take it as gospel. For example, if MB tries to claim that Sonny would never endanger a woman or child, well then Ron can hit up YouTube and show MB numerous videos of instances were Sonny has, in fact, endangered women and children. And, of course, they should also take into consideration how often any particular actor comes to them trying to get story changed. If it's someone who's bitching about it like once a month, then, eventually, you're not going to take them as seriously as someone who rarely expresses that kind of concern.

I think that whether an actor does know better depends, in large part, on the tenures of the actor and head writer. If you have someone who has been playing the same character for many years, decades even, then, compared to the head writers who tend to turn over regularly (outside of B&B, I believe), then, yeah, they're going to know their own character better than the HW who was been there a fraction of the time the actor has. I wouldn't say that MS "knows" Nina better than Ron, but BH, for example, damn well knows Liz better than Ron does. I think that, if a HW has an actor coming to them saying "listen, I've been playing this character for 15 years, and he would never do this. And here's why..." and they have specific reasons related to the character's past, then the HW should give that consideration. And, if they want to go full steam ahead despite that feedback, then they need to write into their story a "why" that makes sense as to why this character is behaving in a way that just does not work for people who have followed the show for years and know this character's history. IMO, the HW's should view the long term actors as a resource. Because when you ignore the knowledge they have of their characters, it's likely that you're going to end up doing things that annoy your long term audience, when some of them end up having the same issues that the actor raised about a plot point.

I still remember being in college (a 17 year old freshman back in 1990, who'd led a fairly sheltered life), and seeing a promo for one of the talk shows on at the time (I want to say Ricki Lake, but I can't remember for sure), and it was "Next on (show): People who change their sex to have sex with people of the same sex." And my initial thought was we were talking, say, men, who were attracted to men, but transitioned to women to sleep with men. But, no, it was more like men who were attracted to women, but truly believed they were lesbians, so they transitioned to women. Totally blew my naive little mind ("but, wait, if you're a man, and you like having sex with women, then, where is the issue?") But, it also shows how completely and utterly fluid this all is, depending on each individual. You have people who would have never, as their "birth gender" had sex with someone of that same gender, but, when they transition, they are attracted to people of that previous gender. You have people who are always attracted to one specific gender, regardless of their given or transitioned gender. You have people attracted to both, and you have the Bruce Jenner situation, where he says he feels asexual (a feeling which may change once he fully transitions and lives life as a woman for a while). I always took Dayzee's attitude towards Maya as one of "I was special enough to rise above my circumstances and blend into this family, you're not as special as me." (And it was not a good look for her.) It would be kind of interesting if her real reason for wanting to push Maya out of the picture was because she knew the secret and she didn't see any way for a Maya/Rick relationship to end up well for anyone.

Well, to be fair, Maxie just got away from being with Spinelli again. Personally, it would take a lot of kissing someone who isn't a chinless passive aggressive toolbag to cleanse that shit from my mind.

If Tony honestly believes that what he's been playing for the past several years is an "equal love" between Luke and Tracy, then I genuinely feel sorry for his real life boyfriend. Because...no.

I never saw Bill/Steffy, but it sounds like that would get just as tedious as "Steffy is FUN! FUN!!!" That's what I think his thing will be - not that someone would transition, but that Rick was sleeping with a woman, constantly, and he had no idea that that woman wasn't born a woman. Because Bill, of course (in his own mind), being the studliest, most masculine of men, would know immediately if the parts weren't original.

They can just say they weren't his that she got. I mean, would it shock any of us if Helena had easy access to a variety of organs whenever the need arose?

Agreed. It would make so much more sense coming from Patrick. And, yes, it would dirty his character up a decent amount, but they could reel him back in with some kind of explanation about what an emotional mess he was after "losing" Robin more than once, and it manifested itself in the built-up resentment of Jason and some part of him thinking Jason "owed" him a wife/happy family. They could also add in something like once he was really and truly into Sam, there's Jason in town with a new face, and his resentment was re-ignited, because here Jason was to potentially steal another love from his life. Hell, they've already screwed up Patrick's character with this story line, whether Ron may agree with that or not, may as well ruin him a bit more, and it would still be less of a mess than the shit they're doing to Liz.

God, do I wish Patrick knew Jason was alive. He doesn't have to now he's Jake, but I would be so much happier if he knew he was alive.

It's either there or Lante's loft. "Bitch, I have been waiting for another shot to sleep with Jason years longer than you have! Years!!"

I hope that, when this all blows up, they have Liz get some genuine therapy. It would be interesting to find that her obsession with being with Jason again is somehow tied to her subconsciously thinking that they can create another Jake, and restore what she's lost. (Not that I want to see them actually create another baby together unless they're actually going to be a couple and not just a speedbump on the way back to Jasam.)

What are servants for, if not to talk to your 10 year old about his murder attempt so you can get right to getting a piece?

I assume they're going to try to handwave it with something like "well there was no information on Maya from earlier years, but she was a child then, so I just figured there wasn't anything to find." Yes, it would seem there should have still been some record of things like the changing of her info on her SSN, license, etc, but since they weren't planning this story back then, they kind of have to handwave something like that now.

Well, yeah, it's obviously a different dynamic. That's what I'm saying. It's a way they could have done Liz/Jakeson with Liz still being dirtied up a bit but not this complete mess. But Ron likes to go for the bulldozer when the sledgehammer would have been just fine.

I actually think Bill's scorn, if it's there, will probably be more directed at Rick, like it makes Rick "less of a man" to sleep with someone who was born male. I'm thinking something along the lines of some of the reaction to the Kendra and Hank cheating thing, where he cheated with a transgender model. There was some sentiment out there where it was somehow "worse" of him and for Kendra that the woman he cheated with was transgender, like it was some kind of comment both on Hank's masculinity and it was more of a slam on Kendra that her man went out and cheated on her with someone who wasn't born a woman.

I started to touch on this over in the episode threat but kind of wanted to expand on it as it relates to Liz's actions. There's no saying that, the instant someone tells Jake "you're Jason Morgan/Jason Q," he's suddenly going to remember all of those feelings and go running back to Sam. He may react the same way he reacted to being presented with his "wife" Greenlee* - "well, that's swell, but, and this is awkward, I still want to be with Liz." I so wish that, instead of having her keep this secret, she told him who he was. If the show still wanted to prolong the story line, he could have not connected to those memories, and be clear that he still wants her. Liz then could have been like "well, screw it, I told him, he still wants me, so we're doing this." It dirties her character up some, but it's not the AJ Express making 10 stops daily on Liz's back. You'd still have people in town (chiefly Sam, obviously) pissed that she's not stepping back and pushing him away so he can have more time and space to figure out who he is and get those memories back, so there's still obvious conflict. For AMC viewers, I'm thinking like Maria's "back from the dead amnesia" where she was told exactly who she was, who her husband was, who her kids were, and she felt nothing for her old life/family. There were months where she was with another guy, while she still tried to at least bond with her kids. Eventually, her daughter almost drown, and, while she was saving her, her memories came back to her. So they could do something like that - Jason stays with Liz while trying to bond with Danny. Danny's leukemia returns, and seeing his son in the hospital is the emotional charge he needs to get those memories and feelings back. *Obviously, I know he's already friendly with Sam, so he's closer to her as opposed to Greenlee randomly showing up in town, but he hasn't expressed any romantic interest or backed off on his intentions towards Liz as that friendship with Sam has formed. So it's not like it's a given that the second someone tells him he's Jason, he'll be all "thank God! I've been dying to get with Sam!"

Don't forget, he speaks French! I'm on the same side. I love Liz, I hate the bus she's being tied down under and how many times it's likely to run over her before the year is up, but I don't see rape. We've seen soap characters keep pertinent information (sometimes about themselves, sometimes about something that affects the person they want to sleep with) to themselves in order to sleep with the person they desire. It's despicable, yes, but it's not rape. When the person in question is known to be mentally ill (like Ron's pet DID cases), that turns it into an issue where the person isn't able to give consent. Jake/Jason doesn't have a mental illness. He's clearly very into Liz and wants to have sex with her. My guess is, even if he knew who he was, that desire wouldn't go away (just like it didn't go away when he was presented with his "wife" Greenlee), until that rush of memories comes back to him, along with the related emotions. The issue here is her not telling him who he is and letting the chips fall where they may (which, again, could likely still be him wanting to sleep with her, if he doesn't feel those memories after she tells him who he is), not whether he can consent.

As Ron tries desperately to make "Michelle Stafford" fit..

I know there is a lot of thought that, given his full memories, there is no way Jason wouldn't go running back to Sam as fast as his feet will carry him. But, and this is a very small but... Jason has typically been rather passive when it comes to women. If he gets his memory back, and he sees Sam supposedly happy with Patrick, Danny, and Emma, I can see him thinking "she's better off," and having every intention of leaving her be where she is. And he has always loved Liz (to varying degrees at various times). Of course, the real crap issue in that outcome is Patrick/Sam, which sucks on every level. IMO, we can all have our theories, but the real outcome here will largely depend on what version of Jason comes out of this. Is it fully Jason Morgan? Jason Q? Some mixture of the two? An entirely new persona all together?

It feels kind of manipulative on his part. Like now he has two women he can blame this on - Helena and Liz. "I told Liz she should tell, but she begged me not to, and I feel like I owe her..."

I can't imagine she'll have to twist Nik's arm very hard on that last part. "So, you'll keep my secret, and I get to get laid a lot? Done!"

And that head writer is always on the wrong side of that discussion. Jasus, he has issues.

I miss the hell out of headcase Ally. Why can she not go all "I can smell the evil" on Rick and Maya's asses?