tv echo

Full Arrow panel with DR, WH, KC, PB & CR at HVFF-Atlanta on Nov. 19 (video posted by JBWEBTV) - warning: minor spoilers...

Remember Jeane Wong, Arrow's script coordinator? Good news for her... NBCUniversal Sets Writers On The Verge Winners by Patrick Hipes November 21, 2016 12:01pm http://deadline.com/2016/11/writers-on-the-verge-winners-2016-nbcuniversal-1201857978/

The Executioner's Song: Why the Networks Stopped Cancelling New Shows By Anthony Crupi. Published on November 21, 2016. http://adage.com/article/media/e/306839/

Coincidentally, a new Vigilante comic book is coming out this week...

I watched video of the entire SA panel. He never said that he regrets lying to Felicity. Some fan tweets are inaccurate.

Jenny Raftery doesn't write Arrow reviews for Vulture anymore, but here are some of her recent tweets...

I think it is significant that Juliana Harkavy has been working with Bamford on set (in an episode that he's not directing) and training at T3 Athletics, even though Tina is supposedly only a cop. Tyler Ritter and Janina Gavankar (McKenna) didn't train at a gym and they play(ed) cops. I think all signs point toward Tina playing a cop who either pretended to be anti-vigilante in order to conceal her vigilante moonlighting, or meets Team Arrow and becomes converted to their cause. (Remember, Laurel was once intent on capturing the Arrow before she became a costume-wearing vigilante herself.) I think it is significant that the new GA Rebirth comics include BC and Diggle but not Felicity. At the same time, I know I could be wrong, but I can't help what I think at this point. As for Felicity's "thread" in the back half of this season: Considering how Felicity's Havenrock storyline took about two minutes in one episode and was really Rory's story, should we really expect much for Felicity's new story in the back half? Also, Diggle is allowed to be Oliver's best friend and also have independent storylines (Suicide Squad, military fugitive). Yet Felicity only gets her own storyline when she's not Oliver's love interest? Is she going to be shipped off to another 'island'? Or, more likely, will her storyline be tied to Curtis' hero journey?

I've been watching Poldark - what is it with these 'heroes' not being able or willing to apologize to the women they betray?

I'm mostly angry at SA for his recent comments at HVFF-Atlanta because he contributed to a popular but inaccurate stereotype of Olicity shippers. Recent real life events have taught me that if you tell a Big Lie loudly and frequently enough, many people will believe it. A Big Lie in the Arrowverse is that all Olicity shippers only care about romance and nothing else. SA's comments just feed into that Big Lie. And with the audience egging him on (with cheers and applause), it seemed like SA was playing along in diminishing a fan who was expressing genuine concerns. Arrow should be a balance of a lot of different elements - heroes and villains, action, fights and cool stunts, for sure. But it also needs relationships, emotion and heart - familial bonds, friendships and, yes, romance. And all of these elements must make sense and be consistent throughout the series. If I complain about one or two of these elements, it doesn't mean that I don't want or care about the other elements. It just means that I don't have a complaint about the other elements (at this time). ETA: Also ditto what @ladylaw99 said above.

After re-watching the full video of SA's panel at HVFF-Atlanta, I've added more transcriptions and corrected existing transcriptions above. Moved rest of my comments to the Poisoned Arrow thread...

Unsurprisingly, ComicBook.com thinks that "Arrow is on pace for its best season in years"... Comic Book TV Show Fall 2016 Power Rankings: Week 9 Christian Hoffer- 11/20/2016 http://comicbook.com/2016/11/18/comic-book-tv-show-fall-2016-power-rankings-week-9/

Transcribed from watching video of full SA panel at HVFF-Atlanta... -- SA: "I have a shirtless scene tomorrow, I think, actually... It's not a workout scene though." -- SA: "I don't think Oliver is the happiest he's ever been. Certainly not. But I think he's the most [content/intent?] he's ever been because he's found that middle ground, that what he does is not an easy job in this awesome, fantastic, fictional world that we live in, but, you know, if you're going to do it, you have to be prepared to go all the way." -- From SA panel at HVFF-Atlanta, in response to fan saying that S5A sometimes feels like a different show with core characters being sidelined, SA: "When you say the first half of Season 5, you've seen seven episodes, so less than a third... It's incredibly important on a TV show that has to produce 23 episodes per year to introduce new characters. Um, and I think that, uh, between Rick and Joe and Madison and Josh, uh, and whomever I'm forgetting, because I'm definitely forgetting somebody, uh, I think we've done a good job of creating new dynamics. Uh, I read a scene in an upcoming episode between Rick Gonzalez and Paul Blackthorne - which is a pairing that I thought I'd never see. And, you know, coming up pretty soon - probably a spoiler alert here - we do get to explore one of the new character's back story through flashbacks, which I always enjoy because I get days off... There's always a soundbite that comes out before a season. 'Back to basics.'.. Going into season 4, people were like, 'lighter tone.' I never totally understood that... I'm very happy with the current season thus far. And I think that, uh - you know, especially with Diggle and Felicity - Felicity especially - Like, there's some loose ends to tie up with David's character before he can move forward, cause he's sorta stuck living in exile at the moment as a felon, so to speak. Um, but in the latter half of the season, there's a really interesting thread for Emily's character and I, uh, think that the fans are really going to enjoy it. So I would just say that, through 7 of 23 episodes, I would say, keep the faith, keep enjoying. But, it is a television show. It is a forward-moving train and you gotta really work to find new characters, find new dynamics, cause, you know, the 12th episode, the favorite stuff that I read was between Rick Gonzalez and Paul Blackthorne. And that stuff's important." -- On what he'd like to see for OTA in the 100th episode or the 200th episode, SA: "Oh man, the 200th episode. Hopefully, it's just us sitting around drinking tea. On a vacation together. Diggle's got like a six kids... A full gray beard. Once the flashbacks are done, I can do whatever I want with my facial hair, by the way. Just keep that in mind... Um, there's a fantastic scene in the 100th episode between, uh, Diggle, Oliver and Felicity in the Arrow Bunker-Cave-thingamajig. And, uh, it's an amazing and unexpected and weird scene." -- In response to fan asking what he thinks is Oliver's biggest regret, SA: "It probably is not Felicity because he's had literal family members murdered in front of him. Sorry. I think his biggest regret is probably not being able to save his mom. For sure." -- On what happens after five years of flashbacks, SA: "I think that going forward in Season 6, flashbacks in some way, shape or form, and that sort of - that story within a story, will always be a part of the show. But Oliver's journey and that five years that he was away, and the wig, thank god, after this year, will be retired... Maybe it's a flashforward, maybe there's episodes with no flashbacks. I couldn't tell you. But after this year, and there will be an after this year, despite those epitaphs, there will be some type of change." -- In response to fan who's unhappy that there are aliens in Arrow in the big crossover event and that Arrow is getting lost within the bigger DCTV universe, SA said Arrow "started it" and is therefore the "benchmark." He then said that the aliens are "much, much heavier" in Flash and Legends than they are in Arrow. Also SA: "There's a scene in the Queen mansion in the 100th episode that's a scene that, if it weren't for the fact that we involve these fantastical elements, like aliens in the crossover, this is a scene that I never would've got to play. This was a scene that was as cathartic for me personally as it was for Oliver on the screen." -- In response to Olicity fan who complained about Oliver never apologizing to Felicity for living a double life and planning to marry her and making her a stepparent without her knowledge or consent, and asking if Oliver will ever apologize to her, SA: "I would say that Oliver and Felicity don't lie to each other anymore. I think that's a step in the right direction... I think that he's paying for that, as it is, because they're not together and he clearly would like to be together if all things were equal, so I think that he's being punished for that already." -- On whether it's fair and genuine to expect Olicity shippers, this really passionate fanbase that Arrow has built, to root for Oliver and Felicity dating other people, SA: "Sure. I mean, yeah. (Fan asked, 'Why?') Well, because it's a... TV show. (Audience laughs and claps) And here's the thing. I love fandom and I love passionate fandom. And I think that Arrow has awesome, passionate fans. But here's the bottom line. You don't always get what you want. (Audience cheers and claps) I mean, look, sitting here, feeling unhappy about the state of their relationship, they're still functioning as a team. They're still serving a greater good. She could be dead. (Audience laughs) I mean, couldn't she? She could be dead. Oliver could be dead. The show could be off the air. There's a bunch of things. Arrow is so many things. And if you let it just become about one thing, then you forget about the bigger picture. RIght? Does that make sense? (Audience cheers and claps) So I would say that Oliver & Felicity's relationship as it pertains to saving the city has always been more important than their relationship as it just pertains to just - you know, are they, aren't they, are they canoodling, are they not? So for me, them functioning as a team right now and being honest with each other is super important, and whatever happens with romance is whatever happens. Thank you." That is such an F.U. to Olicity shippers from SA. His response angered me because it reduced and diminished Olicity shippers to fans who don't care about any aspects of the show other than the romance, which isn't true. He doesn't seem to think that you can care about Olicity and also about other aspects of the show. He incorrectly and unfairly characterizes Olicity shippers as wanting Arrow to only be about the romance, which isn't true. He's belittling a segment of the fanbase that's supported the show over four seasons. He should know better. Also the spoiler about Felicity having a "thread" in 5B sounds like a sop. Oliver's going to be banging the hot new chick in the A plot, but, look over here, you have Felicity with her own 2-minute B or C plot! After reading the tweets and watching the clips from HVFF, I'm more pessimistic than ever that Olicity will ever reunite as a couple, let alone this season. It just sounds like SA is done with that romance and ready to move on. His telling a fan that there's always hope is just like the way the show kept Lauriver fans hanging on season after season, even though MG already knew that that romance was done after S1.

Here's the original source link for the above post at https://www.facebook.com/OliverNFelicity ...

Posting here because it's kinda b-t-s stuff - I thought I once read an Arrow EP quote about how they vowed never to do human trafficking stories, but I guess I was wrong. The closest I found was this WM quote where she said that the show will never show sexual violence - so I guess human trafficking stories are okay as long as they don't show the actual rapes? With this season's 'back to basics' approach focused on crime mobs and Russian mafia involved in drug and human trafficking, I wonder how close they'll skirt the line... Women at the CW work to keep sexual violence off their shows Nardine Saad August 12, 2015 http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/showtracker/la-et-st-the-cw-rape-sexual-violence-women-showrunners-julie-plec-20150811-story.html

This is kinda b-t-s stuff (I guess) since it's about GB's background... Northwestern alumnus Greg Berlanti powers through Hollywood, from teen dramas to comic universes Tori Latham, Features Editor November 16, 2016 https://dailynorthwestern.com/2016/11/16/ae/northwestern-alumnus-greg-berlanti-powers-through-hollywood-from-teen-dramas-to-comic-universes/

It's always interesting to see what scenes The CW chooses to highlight from the past week's episodes...

Arrow 5x07 Review: "Vigilante" (Moral Ambiguity At Its Finest) Just About Write November 19, 2016 http://www.itsjustaboutwrite.com/2016/11/arrow-5x07-review-vigilante-moral.html

Agents of GEEK Podcast Episode 51 Craig Wack & Tatiana Torres 11/19/2016 http://agentsofgeekpodcast.com/wordpress/ -- Craig believes that this season is "so much better than it was in" S4. He thought that 507 was another "run of the mill, pretty decent episode." -- Tatiana was concerned about Oliver because "this reporter chick is going to f**K him so badly... does he not realize it? Bratva f**ked him in the past. She is just going to f**k him so bad." -- Tatiana: "And stupid, little whatever-her-face is." Craig: "Evelyn?" Tatiana: "Yeah. Stupid-face. Ugh! How I hate her... I liked her for one week... Now, I'm like, 'Nope.'" Craig said that you have to watch Young Justice because there, she's sent in to infiltrate because her sister, Chesire, is an assassin-type and her father is a Slade-type supervillain called Sportsmaster. Tatiana (laughing): "Who picked these names?" Craig: "DC." He said that Artemis has this spy infiltration background, so he's not convinced that she's totally betrayed Oliver. It could be a plan between her and Oliver. -- Craig noted that Quentin and Thea are like a "codependent support group." Tatiana liked their dynamic, but didn't think that Quentin will stay in rehab. -- They both thought that little JJ was cute, but Tatiana was still angry about little Sara: "Frickin' Barry, ruins everything." -- Tatiana liked that Diggle and Wild Dog are creating a bond. Tatiana didn't care for Rory: "He can go. Like, he just seems so - ... 'I'm so tortured, but I'm also the happiest person here. But I'm so tortured'... What is his deal?" -- Tatiana noted that when Oliver said he was going on a date with the reporter, they didn't show Felicity's reaction. "Don't move on with the reporter lady. She's lying to you!" -- Craig noted that Oliver is finally trusting his team to go off and do things on their own. -- Craig thinks that the Vigilante is the D.A. -- Craig thinks that Prometheus is -- Craig thought the show was doing a good job with balancing all of these characters and making us care "a little about these new characters."

Arrow is supposed to be the story of Oliver Queen's character journey toward becoming a hero, the Green Arrow (I believe). However, being a hero should involve more than whether or not he kills his targets. Yet that is what this season seems to be most focused on when it comes to Oliver's hero journey - but that isn't even consistent. He has gone from killing as a first resort to not killing at all to sometimes killing and now to killing as a last resort - presumably. Though there was that one guy he killed in 501 just because "no one can know my secret." So really not that much change from his S1 judge-jury-executioner mode. Now, the distinction seems to be between killing criminals (no matter the degree of criminality) and killing innocent civilians (like the Vigilante does). Although Oliver is sometimes back to just capturing criminals and leaving them for the police. See? Confusing. Even more confusing and contradictory are the other aspects of Oliver's hero journey - that is, Oliver as a man and human being. He has gone from not trusting anyone to trusting a vetted few (Diggle, Felicity), from not trusting his team to trusting his team to not trusting his team to trusting his team, to trusting near strangers (Samantha), and now to trusting complete strangers (Susan). In addition, Oliver has gone from immature, cheating boyfriend to sleeping with every eligible woman in sight, then from being good friends with a woman to being in a loving, committed relationship, but then back to deceitful boyfriend, and now he's back to playing the field - but in a way that makes him either a trusting, gullible fool or a cold, calculating manipulator. Arrow has both regressed Oliver and completely screwed up and contradicted itself when it comes to Oliver's character journey. The only thing that's shown some clear movement is his killing policy (but see contradiction above). But, as I said at the outset, being a hero should involve more than whether or not he kills his targets.

I think the poll results are interesting because the question is "Should comic book TV shows follow comic canon more often?" and not "Should comic book TV shows follow comic canon?" Yet the current results are: Depends 51% No 29% Yes 20%

The Tina and new BC spoilers are confusing... According to papps, Oliver & Felicity are searching for a new BC in 510. Canadagraphs tweeted that there will be a new BC, but that she's not Laurel, Sara or Evelyn. Canadagraphs also tweeted that Laurel will return as Black Siren, and not Black Canary, for at least two episodes. WM said that Laurel (KC) would be back in 510. According to SA, Tina is a character that the team tracks down, who's operating in another city, and that this happens when they get back from the break, around "510, 511." However, we know that JH was cast as Tina to appear in 511. We also know that Tina is a detective formerly of Central City. We also know that MG tweeted a pic of a "Hub City Prime Development Potential" billboard sign, which included "511" in lower right corner. So how 510 leads to 511 (if at all) is unclear.