tv echo

From CBR's interview with MG (no spoilers)... GUGGENHEIM CALLS "LEGENDS OF TOMORROW" A 'LOVE LETTER TO THE DCU,' DEFINES 'MYSTIC' "ARROW" S4 Posted: 22 hours ago http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/guggenheim-calls-legends-of-tomorrow-a-love-letter-to-the-dcu-defines-mystic-arrow-s4

DC'S LEGENDS OF TOMORROW ISN'T RETURNING ITS CHARACTERS TO THE FLASH AND ARROW ANY TIME SOON BY TERRI SCHWARTZ 19 JAN 2016 http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/01/20/dcs-legends-of-tomorrow-isnt-returning-its-characters-to-the-flash-and-arrow-any-time-soon

I think that WM just posed the wrong question. The question is not whether people, specifically Oliver, can change. The real question is what you said above: "Will he let his darkness take over once again like he did in S3?"

That new trailer is just dropping anvils all over the place for other characters to be the person in the grave. You got Thea in the hospital (again), Lyla on the point of being shot, Laurel with a head wound, etc. In that new EW interview, WM says that Oliver's "definitely made big steps toward changing and becoming a new kind of hero, but the fact is, he’s still got those years of living on the island in the darkness and those tendencies inside him. We’re really going to explore the question: Can people change? We’re excited to explore that through the prism of Oliver.” Umm, why is this even a question? We already know the answer to that question is "yes". The biggest character change on the show has been the change from pre-island Ollie to post-island Oliver. In addition, all the other character journeys have involved change (Thea, Laurel) and there's even Felicity's back story about her change from Goth Felicity.

Interview: Casper Crump Is “Vandal Savage” in DC’s Legends of Tomorrow Jan 18, 2016 Craig Byrne http://www.ksitetv.com/interviews-2/interview-casper-crump-is-vandal-savage-in-dcs-legends-of-tomorrow/92756/

This is a nice nutshell summary (with links to more in-depth articles) of the TCAs - the superhero stuff is in the last paragraph... TCA 2016: Everything you missed from TV's big press tour BY JAMES HIBBERD, NATALIE ABRAMS January 18 2016 — 4:17 PM EST http://www.ew.com/article/2016/01/17/tca-2016

Here's Alan Sepinwall's review of the LoT premiere (also mentions Arrow and Flash - for example, he mentions the "early bumps" and "huge growth curve" that Arrow went through in its S1) - warning: a little spoilery... Review: Too many capes? Atom, Firestorm & more team up in 'Legends of Tomorrow' By Alan Sepinwall | Monday, Jan 18, 2016 11:32 AM http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/review-too-many-capes-atom-firestorm-more-team-up-in-legends-of-tomorrow And here's a positive perspective on all The CW's superhero shows (Arrow, Flash and LoT)... The CW Is Proving That DC Has More To Offer Than Just Batman And Superman By Jason Serafino, Tech Times | January 19, 8:40 AM http://www.techtimes.com/articles/125379/20160119/cw-proves-dc-comics-more-offer-batman-superman.htm

In anticipation of Arrow's return, here's a summary of spoilers for 410... S4, Episode 10: Blood Debts -- Production code: 410. Director: Jesse Warn. Airdate: Jan. 20, 2016. (MG tweet, page 25 of Spoilers thread) -- 410 synopsis: "THE AFTERMATH - Oliver (Stephen Amell) must deal with the devastating consequences of Darhk’s (guest star Neal McDonough) last attack. Seeking revenge, Oliver goes on a brutal manhunt looking for Dahrk. Jesse Warn directed the episode written by Oscar Balderrama & Sarah Tarkoff (#410). Original airdate 1/20/2016." (DrSpaceman10 post, page 28 of Spoilers thread, and GreenArrowTV article, page 792 of Spoiler Discussion thread) -- Per MG, the Billy Joel song for this episode is Angry Young Man. (MG tweet, page 28 of Spoilers thread) -- Preview pics posted. (ComicBookResources and SpoilerTV articles, page 28 of Spoilers thread) -- Comic preview posted. (MG tweet, page 29 of Spoilers thread) -- 410 promo videos show Oliver going on the warpath, that Felicity will have surgery, and feature appearances by old faces. (410 promo videos posted, pages 28 and 29 of Spoilers thread) -- WM: “He’s going to pull out all the stops... We’ll see him in real fire and brimstone. The gloves are off. It’s eye for an eye. He’ll stop at nothing.” Also, while the team will attempt to rein him in - WM: “I don’t think any of them are going to let him fully revert to the darkest of dark places that he’s been" - Oliver will struggle with falling back into old habits. (EW article, page 29 of Spoilers thread) -- WM: “We’re really intrigued by the idea of seeing what happens when Oliver has someone he loves as much as he loves Felicity get hurt like that, and we’re intrigued by what he would do.” (Variety article, page 29 of Spoilers thread) -- WM teases that even as the vigilante is “dead set on getting Darhk and making sure that he never hurts anyone again, we also get some very interesting human insight into Darhk in this episode. It doesn’t necessarily complicate matters as much for Oliver, but it definitely does for the team, and it makes Oliver’s task quite a bit harder. We’re hoping that will provide some interesting challenges and context as they continue to battle through the rest of the season.” (Variety article, page 29 of Spoilers thread) -- Dialogue tease from Matt Mitovich: "Darhk hurt a friend of mine, a close friend, a woman better than you and me put together... He crossed a line!" (MM tweet, page 29 of Spoilers thread) -- Per Sydney Bucksbaum, "1 scene in particular will set this fandom on fire + inspire lots of theories. Wowza." (SB tweet, page 29 of Spoilers thread and page 813 of Spoiler Discussion thread) -- Per Chris Hayner, 410 will give "some definite answers", Diggle has "good scenes" and "it's clear how much he cares about Felicity", and rates "at least an 8 on the emotion scale" with "some serious moments". (CH tweets, page 29 of Spoilers thread) -- Per Philiana Conta, 410 "has some heartbreaking scenes. Buckle up. #Olicity." (PC tweet, page 29 of Spoilers thread) -- EK described 410 with three words: "revenge, love, Darhk." (EK tweet, page 28 of Spoilers thread) -- On Felicity's last scene in 409 while fans wait for 410, EBR: "She is sincerely in danger. Felicity is right now completely not on this planet. So, it's going to be a little bit of a devastation, and it will be interesting on how it's dealt with. You have to keep in mind how strong she is, and hopefully that strength will prevail and keep her around." (Scan of Bello Mag's December 2015 Young Hollywood article in Morrigan2575 post, page 113 of Starling City Times thread) -- On how many bullets did Felicity take, WM: "She took a lot. Damien really wanted revenge on Oliver, he wanted to hit him hard and hit him where it hurts. What we saw was brutal and that’s what happened to her. It’s very brutal." (TVLine article, page 29 of Spoilers thread) -- Donna Smoak (CR) will appear in this episode. (CR tweet, page 24 of Spoilers thread, and TVLine article, page 21 of Spoilers thread) -- Donna tells Oliver that Felicity is permanently paralyzed. (Australian video promo, page 28 of Spoilers thread) -- WM: "Felicity was always the angel on [Oliver's] shoulder - and whether she is or is not going forward I will leave everyone to find out when Episode 410 airs. But Dig is interestingly also someone who’s always been his moral compass, and one of the things that’s interesting about this season is that we have taken everybody who would normally rein Oliver in to their own morally compromised and dark places. So I don’t know that anyone is necessarily going to be there to stop him. Even Thea is struggling with her own bloodlust. The one person that might be helpful to him is Malcolm. What the viewers will see is we’re going to have him give Oliver some very interesting and helpful advice. And obviously we’re going to blow that up. It will bring them a bit closer together, though, which will give us some really juicy stuff when we start to break them back apart." (TVLine article, page 29 of Spoilers thread) -- It sounds like there will be a big confrontation between DD (NM) and Malcolm (JB) in 410. (GreenArrowTV tweet, page 24 of Spoilers thread) -- Lonnie Machin, aka Anarky, (AC) returns in this episode, and he now wears a mask. (Arrow "Revenge" promo video and AC tweets, and 410 preview pics, page 28 of Spoilers thread) -- Per WM, 410 sees the return of Anarky (AC), who serves as “a really interesting counterpoint to both Oliver and Darhk. He has a big ax to grind so it felt like a really good place to bring him back. WM: “He’s a wild card; by virtue of his name we know what kind of person he is … He’s completely insane and only gone darker since we last saw him, so it felt like a great way to kick off the midseason premiere and a great character to take us into this new, dark set of episodes leading up to the season finale.” (Variety article, page 29 of Spoilers thread) -- On Arrow, AK: “I realize we’re being especially cruel this year, and for that I apologize, but there’s some great stuff coming up on that show,... Midseason finales are incredibly hard, but I think even harder is the one after Christmas, the one where you come back. I will say both The Flash and the Arrow episodes are two of our best come-back-from-the-long-Christmas-break episodes. They’re not placeholder episodes before the good stuff gets going. So much happens in both of these shows.” (EW article, page 28 of Spoilers thread) -- On flashbacks, WM: “Oliver’s cover has been blown... The most fun part of the flashbacks is the dynamic between him and Conklin. We’re really going to be seeing those chickens come home to roost. Oliver’s going to make enemies, not just with the guards, but with the prisoners as well. He’s going to find himself without a lot of friends going forward in the flashbacks.” (EW article, page 29 of Spoilers thread)

Legends of Tomorrow: Brandon Routh Interview Fred Topel 1/18/2016 at 8:04AM http://www.denofgeek.us/tv/legends-of-tomorrow/252056/legends-of-tomorrow-brandon-routh-interview

Arrow-related sections from Den of Geek interview with BR (anything spoilery was redacted)... Legends of Tomorrow: Brandon Routh Interview Fred Topel 1/18/2016 at 8:04AM http://www.denofgeek.us/tv/legends-of-tomorrow/252056/legends-of-tomorrow-brandon-routh-interview

Regarding the sometimes described 'suddenness' of Oliver's romantic feelings for Felicity between S2 and S3 (and asking her out on a date in 3x01)... I've been re-reading the tie-in comics and Arrow Season 2.5 is really critical in dropping clues as to Oliver's developing feelings for Felicity - esp. the "Blood" story when Felicity is kidnapped and Oliver & Roy have to recruit the Huntress for help because Diggle is away. Even Roy and Helena take notice of Oliver's feelings. (MG has said that the tie-in comics are 'canon' so I'm discussing these comics' events the same as show events.) Roy: “Empty. Now what?” Oliver: “Felicity would try and leave a trail for us to follow.” Roy: “How do you know that?” Oliver: “Because she knows I’ll always look for her.” * * * Roy: “What is it? What’d they say?” Oliver: “If I turn myself over to him, Blood will let her go.” Roy: “If you do this, he’ll kill you.” Oliver: "I know. But I just got her back from Slade... I can't lose her again." * * * Roy: “It’s almost midnight. You going to fill me in on the plan yet?” Oliver: “It’s simple. I turn myself over to Blood. Felicity goes free.” Roy: “Look, I get the stoic, monosyllabic thing is your standard gear but something about this is different. Someone. Because it’s Felicity.” Oliver: "Since the business with Slade... I can't stop thinking about her... Seeing things from a different perspective." Roy: "That almost sounded like you have feelings." Oliver: “Roy –“ Roy: “Point is, this isn’t happening by doing what Blood says. If we’re gonna get Felicity back… it’s gonna take us both.” * * * Helena: “It doesn’t seem like Oliver to make that kind of mistake…” Roy: “He didn’t make a mistake.” Helena: “He must really love her to surrender himself like that, to a man who wouldn’t keep his word, with no assurances that he’d keep his word.” Roy: “I don’t know what Oliver’s feelings for Felicity are. But he didn’t make a mistake. He didn’t miscalculate and he didn’t put his trust in someone he shouldn’t have. His last communication to me was ‘Tell her I’m sorry.’ It was code in case our transmissions were being monitored.” Helena: “Code for what?” Roy: ‘Follow my GPS… Do whatever it takes to get me and Felicity back. And that’s what I’m doing. Is the Felicity of it all gonna be a problem for you? I need to know.” Helena: “It’ll be fine. Let’s get Oliver and his new girlfriend back.” * * * Helena: “You’re both assuming a lot, asking me to help you rescue your new girlfriend.” Oliver: “She’s not my girlfriend.” Roy: “She’s not his girlfriend.” Oliver: “But she’s someone I care about. Like I care about you…” Helena: “Then let’s get her back.” * * * Oliver: “Things are different now. I don’t kill anymore.” Helena: “Really? I’m pretty sure if the Count was still alive, he’d have something to say about that.” Oliver: “That was… different.” Helena: “Let me guess: He threatened the bottle blonde down there.” Oliver: “It was her or him. I choose her.” Helena: “Maybe after we save her, she can tell me what that feels like.” * * * Felicity: “I mean – I know that sounded like I was hoping it’s temporary, but – you’re not still crazy anymore, are you?” Helena: “You’re adorable. I can see why Oliver likes you.” Felicity: “He doesn’t like me. I mean, not that way. We’re co-workers. And friends. But mostly co-workers.” Helena: “Does Oliver know that?” * * * Oliver: “Thank you for helping us. For helping me.” Helena: “Can I give you some advice? Don’t let that one get away.” Oliver: “Who?” Helena: “You know who.”

Apparently JBam is still working on 414 (don't think this is spoilery)... https://twitter.com/JamesBamford/status/689030524472549376

Arrow won this poll with 40.3% (poll ran from December 15, 2015, to January 15, 2016)... Which Comic Book-Based TV Series Had The Best 2015 Winter Finale? http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=poll&id=380

Big TV week coming up! I'm looking forward to watching Agent Carter on Tuesday, Arrow on Wednesday, and LoT on Thursday.

Like some others here, I prefer a superhero who's human and doesn't have superpowers (although I certainly enjoy and can cheer for one with superpowers). I think that's one of the reasons I find Arrow so much more compelling than The Flash. When you're just human, you can be driven to desperation more easily when fighting evil... "Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you." -- Friedrich Nietzsche "The only way I know to fight the darkness is to be the darkness. That’s why I left." -- Oliver Queen (Arrow, 4x01) Arrow is (or should be) first and foremost the story of Oliver Queen. Pre-island Oliver was not a hero at all. Like Laura Hurley said, "I loathe him from his terrible hair to his smarmy smile to his lackadaisical philandering ways." Oliver returned from his five-year ordeal as a man on the edge of an abyss. In season 1, he was fighting bad guys by being almost as bad. I say "almost" because he was only going after bad guys. However, as the vigilante, he acted as judge, jury and executioner, and had no compunction about killing the bad guys. Combined with his PTSD, I think that Oliver would have gone all the way dark if it were not for Diggle and Felicity. In season 2, Oliver adopted his no-killing rule in order to honor Tommy and tried to become a hero, not a killer. In season 3, desperation drove Oliver to become a bad guy again, but this time he hurt his friends as well as his enemies (albeit as part of an effort to protect them). He regressed by trying to go it alone, without his team, who ended up helping him anyway. Now, in season 4, Oliver is faced with the same choice yet again. Faced with an even more powerful enemy, will Oliver have to become darkness in order to defeat Darhk, or can he defeat Darhk by remaining in the light?

Rachel Bloom won a Critics' Choice Award for Best Actress in a Comedy Series... Announcing the 2016 Critics' Choice Awards Winners! January 18, 2016 by MAGGIE PEHANICK http://www.popsugar.co.uk/celebrity/Critics-Choice-Awards-Winners-2016-39840088

Following up on the above discussion... Netflix's growth elicits fear in Hollywood Yvonne Villarreal and Meg James January 18, 2016 http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/cotown/la-et-ct-netflix-hollywood-20160118-story.html

Wasn't there also some tweet(?) about how the EPs got all excited watching the dailies between SA and AH?

I love the Kate Daniels series by Ilona Andrews. I don't consider it a YA series (it's usually shelved in the Sci-Fi/Fantasy section of my local book store). It's got a badass heroine with a sword (that she's very good at wielding), complicated world building, good action/fight sequences, very snarky humor, great supporting characters, and a wonderful relationship between Kate and Curran that develops over the course of several books. Here's the series order: 1 Magic Bites 2 Magic Burns 3 Magic Strikes 4 Magic Bleeds 5 Magic Slays 6 Magic Rises 7 Magic Breaks 8 Magic Shifts I believe there are two more books to come before this series ends. There are also related books (like Gunmetal Magic) and short stories. (source)

From Diggle's point of view, the kid was safe and Oliver made the choice to help Laurel. Whether Diggle was right or wrong wasn't the point. It was that Oliver made the choice that he did, not because he put the kid first, but because he put Laurel first. Even if no kid had been involved, Oliver would've picked Laurel first. (Remember, this was the S1 Oliver who said to Laurel in 1x22: "That you know me better than anyone, and that you are more important to me than anyone.") So Diggle, who has been helping Oliver all season long by risking his life and breaking the law, asks Oliver for help for the first time - and Oliver lets him down, resulting in the deaths of four good people... Oliver: “What happened?” Diggle: “You didn't show, things didn't go well.” Oliver: “Rasmus was skipping town, and I had to reprioritize.” Diggle: “Thanks to your new priorities, four agents are dead, Oliver. You could have stopped this guy, ended this maniac once and for all.” Oliver: “Lawton got away?” Diggle: “You seriously think a man who goes by the name ‘Deadshot’ was going down without a fight? I needed you there, man.” Oliver: “Taylor Moore was relying on me, Diggle.” Diggle: “This was never about that kid. He is safe under armed security at your house. This is about Laurel.” Oliver: “Diggle, I made a choice.” Diggle: “I know. You chose Laurel. Always her. Everybody else be damned.” Oliver: “Something to say, Felicity?” Felicity: “Nothing you want to hear.”

Replying in 1x20 thread.

Wow... did not know these people had already been cast for the new Wonder Woman movie (out June 23, 2017)... Warner Bros. Casts Wonder Woman's Mother (Exclusive) JANUARY 15, 2016 12:42pm PT by Borys Kit http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/warner-bros-casts-wonder-womans-856255

LEGENDS OF TOMORROW: WENTWORTH MILLER ON WHETHER CAPTAIN COLD IS A HERO BY TERRI SCHWARTZ 16 JAN 2016 http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/01/16/legends-of-tomorrow-wentworth-miller-on-whether-captain-cold-is-a-hero

Just read this IGN interview with Wentworth Miller and a few of his comments struck me... LEGENDS OF TOMORROW: WENTWORTH MILLER ON WHETHER CAPTAIN COLD IS A HERO BY TERRI SCHWARTZ 16 JAN 2016 http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/01/16/legends-of-tomorrow-wentworth-miller-on-whether-captain-cold-is-a-hero First, Barry is an adult, not a boy, so that's a curious perspective from WM. Second, he confirms that even the LoT actors understand that there could be a cast change next season. Third, he seems to be hinting at some connection between Snart and Sara.

Ouch! - I have seen both positive and negative reviews of LoT; I only post this one here because of the comparison to Arrow and Flash... The CW’s latest comic book show falls short of legendary By David Wiegand Updated 8:04 pm, Saturday, January 16, 2016 http://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/article/The-CW-s-latest-comic-book-show-falls-short-of-6764717.php