FaithsMum

I feel you, Rhetorica . My "illness" is self inflicted and those around me are desperate to "fix" me and can't do enough to help. It's not that I don't appreciate the assistance but when I need it, I'll ask - otherwise I'm good and I'll figure out how to get my starved fucked up body to the toilet myself. Sure, but there's a fine line between offering help and attempting to force someone to bend to your will. If you're told to back off as Bethenny has told Heather, and you continue to push, then you have crossed that line. It becomes not about helping that person, but about making *yourself* feel better because it's uncomfortable for you to watch someone physically/emotionally struggle.I used to work with the physically disabled and you allow them to do what they can, no matter how long it takes. I could dress them in two minutes but since a few were able to do it themselves we stepped back and allowed them to - and yes, it pained me, at times, to watch them struggle but to have forced my assistance on them would have been for my benefit, not theirs - because they didn't want it. Heather has tried to help Bethenny who has told her multiple times to back the fuck off which is absolutely her right, and Heather should respect that.

Christ, she's awful. I always feel like Hannah's auditioning for... something. I do normally but I'm in hospital at the moment and don't have unrestricted access to my laptop, I only have it occasionally, supervised and not for very long... Which makes no sense when I have a phone/iPad but whatever, that's what you get when you're legally insane. :( FaithsDad generally downloads RH episodes for me and puts them on my iPad. I have an Android phone which is more easy come, easy go with its app store than Apple so I will have to look and see if there's a VPN app for that instead. I love your username btw. I have a soft spot for Miss Milania!

This is what I would tell her too. I personally loathe therapy but recognise that it's beneficial for many people and one should at least try it. You know, with a therapist that doesn't allow filming. Doesn't she only see him for the show? I'm sure I've read that somewhere - probably here. Even all around good mothers who love their kids very much can transfer their issues to their kids. Kids aren't stupid and Bryn won't be little forever, she'll soon pick up on Bethenny's neuroses - if she isn't starting to already.

Yeah, they do know her better but that doesn't mean she's any less overbearing or controlling, you know? Or rather that Bethenny finds her any less overbearing or controlling which she's entitled to feel. Disclaimer; I haven't seen the latest episode yet though.

This was a boring episode. I'd rather have Shannon's martial problems than a whole season of Vicki/Brooks. I love Vicki but I like her when she's screeching at the other wives or tripping over her own feet, not asking Brooks to "affirm" her. On the one hand I commend Shannon for her openness because marital issues are problems people of all walks of life have but I side-eye her for ranting at Heather last season about the email because she has children, yet she's putting David's affair out there. I don't like David anymore. I don't care how much of a pain in the arse she is; have some respect for your 15(?) year marriage and the mother of your children and end the relationship before fucking anyone else. People fall out of love, people split up and that's fine but don't be a dick about it. Shannon doesn't deserve that, and neither do their daughters. Their relationship is never going to work anyway because if you choose to forgive an affair then you have to actually *forgive* and I can't see Shannon being the type to let it go, every argument she will throw it in his face. I'm not criticising her for it since I couldn't forgive an affair as it would irreparably damage our marriage, which is why I would leave. Shannon won't leave though. Heather's monstrosity doesn't bother me. If they can afford it and they're not ripping anyone off to live their lifestyle (I'm looking at you, Tre and Juicy) then have at it. You go have your 14 bathrooms if that's what makes you happy. I have nine fucking toilets in my house and honestly they're a pain in the arse, but then nannies aren't raising my kids and I do my own cleaning. Heather and Terry are snooty and pretentious, but eh, there's worse things to be. And at least they're genuinely wealthy which was the original point of the show. FaithsDad is a doctor and in the UK, no one enters medicine and gets rich so I'm never going to get over just what a lucrative profession medicine can be across the pond. I'm in the UK as well and too am that pathetic too although I download torrents which I'd advise as they're usually decent quality. So there's no hope for me either. We should start a club since I suspect it's far sadder we watch this shite online than just turning the telly on.

I'm outside of the US so the video doesn't work for me. Stupid geo restrictions. Can you give me a summary, please? I can't stand Hannah and love any criticisms of her!

Yep - I'm 27 and I'm too old for pigtails. For me, they belong to little girls. That's what I love about LuAnn although some of her ginormous necklaces make me do a double take and I have been known to say out loud "Jesus Christ, that is huge"... But otherwise I love that she always looks fabulous and effortless while being completely age appropriate. Since Ramona has ditched the satin dresses I like a lot of what she wears too and think she looks great. I wish she'd go back to the choppy bob though she had when she was "renewing" herself; she really suited it, much better than the long hair. Carole would suit a shorter style too plus her hair is thin and stringy to me. Heather's, at least, is thick and she's got plenty of it. Bethenny's hair looks shitty this season, with her jaw though I'm not sure if she could pull off anything too short. On saying that though, I have waist length curly hair and I'll probably be clinging to it when I'm middle aged too and should aim for a bit of a shorter style!

Oh, I agree that fame is one of the most important things in Bethenny's life. Like all of the Housewives on these shows, she's an attention seeker. This I don't understand since I'd wager that almost all of us here have no desire whatsoever for our 15 minutes of fame. I have wondered if Bethenny is aware of her fragility and this is her redemption. At least in her eyes, you know? That viewers would feel sorry for her and she would gain back some of the fans she lost with the whole divorce drama. I think Bethenny's initial popularity and how many sided with her during the Jill shit went to her head and she assumed that her behaviour this season would have the same effect. I think Bethenny is calculated enough to think this but at the same time, I don't think that doesn't mean she isn't as brittle and prickly as she appears to be. Plus, she isn't all that great an actress! Of course, this is all supposition since I don't know her but my bet for her coming back is redemption which, of course, she's never going to admit. Personally I think she's done her time on reality telly and should have stayed off it totally, including if Bravo had given her her own show. For Bryn's sake as she's not always going to be five years old and her parents divorce/custody battle has already been played out in the public eye enough. I do wonder what Bryn will grow up to say about *her* parents/childhood. PS, I'm glad you replied, even if I don't always agree with you, I really enjoy reading your posts! :)

Ok, so I've just read this thread from the beginning and I read all the episode ones. Anyway, I want to ask you all a question; many have criticised Bethenny for her behaviour this season, with the crying etc and have said it makes it difficult to sympathise. Yeah I'm totally paraphrasing so I hope you will all forgive me! What I'm wondering is what would make her sympathetic to those who aren't? Other than not being on the show in the first place! :) I'm not being facetious and don't want to snark on anyone for their responses - I'm truly curious. I do empathise with her mostly because I can relate although I think it was a mistake coming back. While I think Bethenny can put on a show at times, I believe she really is as emotionally fragile as she appears. Does she manipulate a little? Maybe. But I don't hold that against her. Overall, I'm a good person I think. But right now I'm stressed and brittle, and I'm not always so nice. I've taken to channelling Jenelle from TM2 and screeching "LEAVE ME ALONNNNEEE." I'm owning my shit and though it makes my skin prickle to admit it, I can be manipulative when I feel backed into a corner and pressured into doing something that is making me uncomfortable/anxious because it's the path of least resistance. I can't, or don't always, want to talk about why I don't want to do X or Y so I lose my temper or cry. Although my manipulation isn't intentional *in that moment* I realise that that is what it is. I'm not always so easy for others to empathise with; I'm stubborn and I these days, I can out-sulk, my young daughters. Catch me in the wrong mood, and I will bite your head off. It's not pretty, it's not nice - hell, *I'm* not nice - but this is me, for the moment. This is anorexia me. I guess my point is that people don't always respond to stress in a way that is pretty or allows others to easily sympathise with them, but that doesn't mean they're not having a rough time or deserve less empathy than those who don't behave so badly. I'm lucky, I think - because FaithsDad, my family and friends love me even when I don't deserve it. Perhaps, *especially* when I don't deserve it; when I'm rude and mean and snarky and manipulative and uncooperative, they still continue to love me and empathise. I think Bethenny cries, like with Heather, partly to shut down the conversation because most people don't want to be a person who makes another cry but partly because it's *easier.* When you're stressed and sad, it's easier than continuing an argument or trying to make your point heard... And you just want to make whatever it is go away and will do whatever's necessary. Alternatively, I could be giving her too much credit! I'm not a Bethenny apologist although I do find her entertaining and was pleased when I heard she was coming back. She can be extremely obnoxious and I've side-eyed her often over the years, but yeah, I do feel bad for her at the moment.

I'm concerned about not expressing the following well, please bear with me! My bio father is Jewish. Although the only faith I have is my daughter and Judaism wouldn't acknowledge me anyway since my mother isn't, I do consider myself half Jewish."Ghettos" although didn't originate from Nazi Germany are most famously associated with that, at least on my side of the Atlantic and sometimes I have to remind my brain that when Americans use the term they are not talking about Jewish ghettos during Hitler's reign. My bio dad has no extended family since his parents were the only two members to survive the Holocaust. Something like 100+ members of his extended family died in the ghettos or were murdered in death camps. This is part of my heritage and although I'm not, based on some of the theories here I could equally become offended at the use of "ghetto" since I don't believe what we would refer to as a "rough estate" can be compared to a place(s) where hundreds of thousands of people were forced into slave labour, lacked basic amenities, starved, beaten, tormented and eventually murdered. Since I have literally nothing better to do with my days, I've been reading up on cultural appropriation and I still remain unoffended (I think I just made that word up!) by Heather. I do not believe it's my place to dictate what minorities are offended by and I absolutely think they have that right to be irritated/offended by cultural appropriation but since I'm a upper middle class white woman, I also don't think it's my place to be offended on their behalf particularly if those minorities - or many - are not. To explain more; I live in a town where we've had some problems with adult Asian Muslim men grooming white girls - some as young as 11/12 - and plying them with alcohol and drugs. FaithsDad and much of my extended family are Muslims, of Pakistani origin and they are the first to say it's a cultural problem but the government refuses to acknowledge it for fear of being accused of racism. Social services and the police were also aware of it - for years - but did not do very much of anything for the same reason. The odd white person who has publicly said it's a cultural problem were often shot down, accused of being racist and told that the rest of the Muslim community should be offended. My husband is as easy going as anything but he becomes pretty pissed off by it because he does believe it's a cultural thing (an example is my in-laws were furious when we married because you "sleep with white women, you don't marry or have children with them.") and because he finds it to be condescending for the white privileged elite to dictate what should offend him as a Muslim man. I fear I have not articulated myself well, so please don't all jump on me at once! :) Edit: Rahul, this isn't particularly directed at you so I'm not singling you out. I just thought your post was interesting and I can totally see why it upsets you Hitler appropriated something that was a part of your culture and is now pretty much singly associated with anti-Semitism although I don't think Heather's use of language is really comparable tbh.

And desperate. She needs male attention to feel validated and apparently doesn't care who that man is. Dorinda handled it much better than I would which I can't work out if it's admirable or not. I mean, not getting worked up about desperate Sonja is a good thing but at the same time it's pretty disrespectful to come sashaying in someone's bedroom in silky lingerie and telling a guy in the presence of his girlfriend he can touch. It's rude and inappropriate. I find Sonja uncomfortable to watch these days. Her delusions and break from reality about her "brand" aren't entertaining to me, they're sad.

It's episode 11, I think. I'm pretty sure. I've deleted it from my iPad so I can't go and check but it's definitely the first episode where they are back in NYC, the same one where Alex and LuAnn have a sit down with the Herman Munster shoes. It's made even funnier by cutting to a Sonja TH totally owning it and saying she did it deliberately.

Thank you, everyone here is so lovely and you keep me company at night and away from the crazy places my brain takes me to! Although FaithsDad doesn't exactly consider my in depth analysis of the Housewives makes me a beacon of sanity either! :)Oh, I'm open to finding something about Heather to like if I see it. I think that's unlikely this season though since Heather's only screen time appears to be when she's going at it with someone. I found LuAnn insufferable for four seasons and now she's one of my favourites so I'm adaptable! One of my favourite things about this forum is the differing perspectives and other posts seeing something I didn't which can change how I view a scene/housewife. I too don't doubt Bethenny is a good mum and is trying to give Bryn the stability and love she did not have but give me overbearing Heather any day. Oh, I thought of something! I do admire the way she takes Jax's health in her stride; that she's not a crying wreck. She just deals and is like "ok, so we'll go do X and Y." I think that is admirable and though we don't see much of her with her kids, she is likely a wonderful mother overall.

Unless I've misinterpreted I read that as Mozelle being tongue in cheek. It could potentially be an English thing since we put sarcasm in the water here and that's how I took it, not that Mozelle feels Heather is wrong using "motherfucker." :)

Thank you! :) I've been thinking tonight (it's 1:30am, what else am I going to do?!) and while I've never been Heather's biggest fan, I loathe her this season. Anyway, I've come to the sad conclusion that while I would probably find her overbearing, if I didn't relate a lot to Bethenny right now, I'd hate her less and I'm somewhat projecting. I'm every bit as fragile and brittle as Bethenny - anorexia, hospital, blah blah blah - and I have my own Heather's (although I love them!) who I sometimes feel are telling me what to do... And I respond much in the same way Bethenny does if I feel I'm being pressured and I'm uncomfortable. This isn't "normal" me but it is atm. The tiniest things stress me out and have me zero to defcon in about three seconds flat - I literally cried over spilt milk today. So I think I've got some projection issues because I can relate to Bethenny far more than I can Heather. :) I don't think Heather is a "bad" person, or anything... And I could roll off ten housewives from various franchises who have committed far greater sins than Heather. I just find her overbearing and controlling. But as much as I can relate to Bethenny right now, I wouldn't want to be around her either since in a completely different way she exhausts me as much as Heather does (and I imagine I do my friends and family!) Human nature isn't so black and white and I'm sure Heather has many redeeming qualities which I'll get back to you with if I can find some... :) Seriously though, I think I'd rather have her as a mother than Bethenny. I believe B absolutely loves Bryn but that woman has a laundry list of neuroses and overall Heather appears to be much more well balanced and, well, stable.

Since I loathe Jill, I'm going to unfairly assume Ally is lovely despite not because of her as it pains me to give her any credit for anything! :) He didn't on the reunions but outside of them, I'm not sure. That Susan Saunders debacle will forever be my favourite thing about Jill.

Yes, that too is much more offensive to me too, and hypocritical. You cannot nail someone to a wall for something you're doing yourself since, even if you're right, you lose any moral highground you had. The thing is, they're all hypocrites. Not that I'm excusing Heather in any way (I'm not an apologist, I can't stand her) but they're all willing to be self righteous when it suits them. Although I am familiar with the American usage of "ghetto" on my side of the pond it's associated with Nazi Germany and it took my stupid brain a while to get Aviva's implication. Your explanation is very interesting as this is something I'm personally unfamiliar with and I think is a much bigger deal in the US. Thank you for taking the time to write it! :) With regards to Heather, while its clearer to me why some find it offensive and I don't begrudge them that, I still think it's one of the least offensive things about her. I find it irritating at times but purely on an eye rolling and snarkable level than anything else because as you said, it's very try hard.

Thank you for your explanation. I can see why you used Iggy as a comparison since I have read about cultural appropriation with regards to her so it did make sense to me and I agree that Heather is not on Iggy's level. I've heard exactly one Iggy song (and I have every intention of it remaining that way!) so I'll take your word for it that she's a no talent hack! :) I drop the "g" all the time like everyone else with my accent, black or white - so I guess I don't see the big deal about that at all. Even if Heather doesn't do that ordinarily, when people are pissed they don't necessarily uphold the rules of proper language/grammar since their aim is to get shit off their chest, not sound as if they're a member of the royal family. Ditto "motherfucker." I dislike Heather but I guess I find her language choices one of the least offensive things about her. However, despite my Pakistani grandfather and my Jewish bio father, I'm an upper middle class, blonde haired, blue eyed, white girl and so it's not for me to dictate what minorities should and shouldn't find offensive, you know?

I dunno, maybe there's something wrong with me but while I find much of Heather's language cringe worthy, I don't find it to be offensive. Perhaps this is because I'm English so I a) consider it an "Americanism" rather than attribute it to a particular race/culture and b) because we do not have the same race "issues" that the US does. FaithsDad is a British born Pakistani and unlike much of his family and their friends speaks English with an English accent. His parents complain that he "sounds and speaks like he's white" which, trust me, is an insult since they've yet to forgive him (or rather me for being some kind of femme fatale and leading him astray) for marrying a white woman because you "sleep with white women, you don't marry them" FYI. With that somewhat minor exception and not quite the same thing since his parents are just arseholes, I have never heard anyone here complain about cultural appropriation and I live in a town where 30% of the population is Asian and much of my extended family are Asian since my Grandad is of Pakistani origin. Sidenote: Asian in the UK generally means south Asian/middle eastern not Chinese, Japanese etc. I guess, for me, the cultural differences/history between the UK and the US matters in this instance since I have a hard time thinking that Heather's choice of words is anything but eye rolling. If anyone could elaborate as to just why so many find it offensive, I'd be interested to read. :)

Yeah. I've just been watching old seasons and Kelly commented to her that she had them as well but the initials of her and her daughters because apparently one needs to have their coffee tables to be the letter of their first names presumably in case she forgets. As stupid as I find it, at least it means something. Like, wtf does "pop" represent? Mind you, Kelly is a woman who named her child "Sea" so I don't know why I expect any better.

I just watched the season four episode where Cindy is showing her brother and assistant the pictures from Morocco and realises Sonja has cut her out of them and she's not in a single one. That's never going to not make me laugh! My other favourite Sonja moment is in season five after Aviva calls her and Ramona white trash. I can't remember word for word what she said, but it's something like "hillbillies can be welcoming. They can say 'welcome to my trailer.'"

Do you know, that's actually a really good point. Bethenny does not like Heather, I think everyone can agree on that and she is attempting to hold her at arms length which is actually pretty healthy way to deal with a colleague you dislike. It's Heather who is pushing and pushing because she just can't get over the fact Bethenny doesn't like her and above polite but distant small talk, doesn't want to interact with her. Prickly, brittle me couldn't handle Heather either and probably would've reacted in much the same way Bethenny did at the dinner party. She's too much. I think S1-3 Bethenny would have handled Heather's overbearing ways much differently. I'm not sure Heather lacks self awareness though; I just think she can't deal with it when she's evidently disliked by someone. While I think she's potentially oblivious to how her controlling, bossy manner comes across I think she gets that Bethenny doesn't like her - and that's why she behaves the way she does because for whatever reason she's desperate to form a friendship and it pisses her off that B isn't interested.

I can take or leave Carole which made me sad initially as I'd read her memoir not long before she was cast and to this day, it's still one of the most beautiful, heart wrenching, gorgeously written books I've ever read. Carole is on a Kristen level for me, I'm largely indifferent and don't care much if they stay or go. I don't think I'd notice if either of them wasn't in an episode since neither of them add much, either positively or negatively. I can see why Carole irritates many though especially with her too-cool-for-school Carrie Bradshaw shtick when she's a 50-something woman with a very successful career in "serious journalism" including a freaking Emmy. Yeah, give it a rest Carole. I don't find women my age (27) acting like a ditz when they're evidently smart and accomplished, cute or endearing.

Ha, this made me laugh! I think Heather is one of those people that despite her self confidence can't handle it when people don't like her particularly if she believes it's for no reason, so she tries to force them to maybe without realising that her version of small talk is intrusive and she comes across as bossy and controlling in her attempts to force a connection. Let it go, Heather. Even if she believes Bethenny's dislike of her is unfair etc, she still needs to let it go. Whether it is or isn't, you cannot make people like you and in attempting to do so, it's actually having the opposite effect.

I haven't seen the first look but from what's been posted, this sounds likes it could be it. I would have commended Heather more if she'd just taken the arms length approach to Bethenny too. You don't like everyone you meet and everyone doesn't like you, it's not a big deal. These women aren't friends in the real sense of the word, they're colleagues. I have plenty of colleagues I don't like and the feeling, I'm sure, is entirely mutual. Bethenny has been very much in the public eye for many years now and no doubt Heather had formed an opinion of her from what she saw/read prior to meeting her, just like we have here. I get that. Plus Heather/all of them have got to be pissed at Bethenny's pay for essentially doing the same "job" and potentially whatever deal she has with Bravo which allows her to miss events. While I don't blame Bethenny for negotiating the best contract she can, I absolutely understand any resentment towards her for it. All that coupled with Bethenny's prickly behaviour this season, Heather just simply doesn't like her but instead of keeping their interactions to small talk and holding her at arms length, she picks at her instead and interject herself into conversations that have fuck all to do with her under the guise of being "helpful." Bad move, Heather.