apinknightmare

I completely understand what you all are saying, but Laurel didn't just lose her boyfriend and her sister, she was also publicly humiliated because of their indiscretion. And she had to stick around and deal with the fallout, deal with the looks, deal with her parents' marriage falling apart because of it. So, yeah, people do deal with death at least once in their lives, and they deal with divorce and embarrassment, but she dealt with that all at once. She truly does have every right to be angry at them, but part of the problem with that is that because of what Oliver and Sara have been through, it makes her anger look selfish (I firmly believe that it absolutely is NOT), so she's never really allowed to cycle through all that the way you normally would, because doing that makes her look like an asshole. A lot of us are driven to do things through our life experiences, and just because yours might be less painful than mine doesn't make you any less worthy of the end result than I am. Say my entire family was wiped out by a raging house fire when I was a kid, and you just have a relentless desire to save people who are in mortal peril, and we both end up being firemen. Am I more worthy of the job than you are? No. We're united in a common purpose, being driven by different things. The problem with Laurel IMO isn't that she hasn't suffered enough to become a hero, it's that she's never shown the right motivation to want to be one in the first place. She had this crush on/fascination with the vigilante, but most of the time during their interactions, he was helping her, not the other way around. So, she's never shown this intense desire to go outside the law to help, but she has shown a willingness to go outside the law to be helped or help herself (blackmail, anyone?). She finds out Oliver's the Arrow, and all of a sudden she's going to Verdant and hugging him, telling him he's important to her. She gets that weird obsessed look when Sara carries that kid out of the burning building, then that huge-ass smile when she's handed the jacket. IMO, the problem is that it seems so far like Laurel is driven by the desire to be a part of the club, not because she actually wants to do good in the way that Oliver and Sara (well, kinda) had been. Now that Sara's conveniently out of the way, she has a way into that club, and the way they went about it makes it difficult to swallow for me. I'm trying to reserve judgment until it plays out on my screen. Trying. I personally don't think she needs 5 years of training like Sara and Oliver had to be believable. Fighting is fighting whether you learned it because you wanted to, or because you had to in order to survive. And it's not like she's unable to defend herself - the show proved that she could when they needed her to, just like they made her a helpless damsel when they needed her to be one of those. She needs to take her lumps, I'm not arguing that she doesn't, and maybe she will. Is it ridiculous to think she'd be at Oliver's level after 5 months? Yeah. Do I think she could handle herself in a fight? Yeah, maybe. Maybe they'll show her struggling and not being so good at it at first? Fingers crossed. I realize I'm putting a lot of faith into the writers here, and they absolutely do not deserve it. And I know that ultimately she'll be the Mary Sue of vigilantes, but like I wrote, I'm trying here. What ultimately makes this unbelievable to me is a) the writing has failed this character at nearly every turn. There's no subtlety to it, no nuance to make us feel for her the way that we should, and her motivation is dubious at best and b) the way KC portrays Laurel's angsty/"vulnerable" side makes the writing failures 100x more obvious.

Oh, okay. Maybe "meet up" wasn't the right word to use.

She might have, but good lord did she not learn the first time? And she didn't tell Laurel to watch herself or anything, so I could be wrong, but I don't think she's left again.

One positive for the Laurel arc (because I'm assuming she'll be one of those "heroes.") I really would like to see Oliver have something good in his life and learn how to balance that with being the Arrow. He needs some happiness, his life is like a black hole of suck.

I agree - I like the no powers on this show. Although it is weird that there's a town 600 miles away full of metahumans, but...they wouldn't want to go to Starling anyway. As was established in the premiere - it's a shithole.

As far as we know, she doesn't have a reason to fear him. The LoA members called her "the beloved." ETA: Yeah, she did leave the league, but she went back. Unless we find out that she actually didn't.

I know the EPs said this isn't a retcon, and I'm really curious as to HOW this isn't a retcon. Does Tommy not recognize him or something?

Eh, there are a few who do that. :) And yeah, they all seem to get along and genuinely like each other. It's nice that they seem to make time to hang out together outside of work at least a few times (based on what pictures we've seen on Instagram and such), and it does benefit the show. And even though I personally don't care about Laurel and I hate what it seems like her upcoming arc is going to be, it's nice that KC is excited. I wish I could be excited too. Hopefully that excitement will translate on screen and make me at least not tune out during her scenes.

Isn't MG having a panel as well? Anyone know if it's going to be streamed?

It is odd that they do that - I've noticed it on several occasions. Do they word things like that for anyone else? Honestly asking, I can't recall.

I think very few people here actually believe that he doesn't like Katie as a person.

We already are, so...

Plus, a lot of the shipping questions are so stupid and repetitive. Why wouldn't Oliver and Felicity have more interactions?

Well, unless they're being tricky with the shots (which, granted, isn't unheard of) Quentin's not at the burial. There were only 5 people in the long shot they showed of the cemetery in one of the preview clips, and those five are Oliver, Laurel, Felicity, Roy and Diggle per the close ups. So either they don't tell Quentin right away, or he finds out later. Either way, from what we can see, he's not there when they bury her. I think they don't tell him right away, which is probably part of the reason why they're being secretive about it. There's an assassin coming to town next ep who is arrowing people, so it's not like they couldn't have set it up to look like he killed Sara so she could be buried properly. Also, since her body isn't going to be prepped, ugh. The eventual stench.

To me, it sounds like it could be a modulated female voice, but it really could go either way. But I really don't think it's Thea - I can't think of any context in which that would make sense, even if she has been training with Merlyn.

I think it's purposely ambiguous - that won't wind up being the actual voice of the person who did it. But it definitely sounds like it could be a woman. If it is Thea, then a) I think it'll be purely for shock value, and b) wow, that's dark as hell.

That's the thing - Oliver threw her a welcome home party. People know she's alive. ETA: WAS ALIVE (RIP)

Maybe they'll explain it away as being some kind of LoA/warrior's no muss no fuss kind of burial thing? Although how any of them would know that I have no idea.

Maybe she does. Hopefully she remembers to tell her mom too.

I hate this, I hate it so much. I could maybe get it if no one knew she was still alive, BUT THEY THREW HER A WELCOME HOME PARTY. I hope beyond all hope that this gets properly explained in the episode, but I'm not going to hold my breath for it. I really do think it's because they're not going to tell Lance and I'm going to have a really big problem if that's the case. I haven't seen that - I know there was something "controversial" posted to TV Line, I think. A poll about them moving too fast maybe? But how could anyone think this is it for them? This show is so heavy-handed with its symbolism. Oliver tells Felicity that she's the person who reconnected him to his humanity after he returned from the island (in the same episode where he's basically deciding he can't be that guy anymore), her giving him a plant that thrives in low-light conditions, her cradling a sunflower as he picked her unconscious body up off of the floor in that bistro. LMAO, come on, guys.

It's Felicity, Roy, Laurel, Oliver and that looks like Diggle's arm, next to the shovel: If Lance was there, I'd have to wonder why he was allowing his child to be buried in a box like that (I'm just super hung up on that box, haha).

I think the bow is really cool too. They need to explain where he's getting the money/support from to acquire things like that, though. I know the explanation is supposed to be coming soon, and I really hope it does. In this ep he's so broke that Felicity needs to buy him a bed (won't ever be over it), but he's somehow managing to keep the power on at Verdant? Explanations, I needs them.

Yeah, is he at some point going to stop having a heart condition? Is it going to be any better for his health when he eventually finds out that his daughter buried his other daughter in a shipping container she and her cohorts found on the loading dock of a local Wal-Mart and no one fucking told him? I hope she has another secret, too.

They left early because they were dissatisfied with the pasta selection. Fusilli or die! Too soon?

But Oliver threw her a party at Queen mansion during ToD to celebrate her coming back from the dead, and there were tons of people there. Did no one ever undo the legalities of her death? Wait, I'm talking about Starling City, so probably not. But...her being alive wasn't a secret, so I still don't understand.