apinknightmare

This is impossible to figure out, because ultimately we don't know who Sara knew. If I had to guess I'd say Waller ordered the hit, and someone from the HK flashbacks carried it out. -or- Ra's maybe, to mastermind some kind of mess between Oliver and the League. -or- Not Thea (please not Thea).

Just curious, why? What if she tries to convince him not to go, that there's another way to deal with the situation, and he goes anyway? How long is she supposed to be the cheerleader for a guy who seemingly won't rest until he destroys his own life in the name of his mission?

I can't think of anyone else who would genuinely be shocking at this point, except for maybe Ray. It'd be helpful if we knew for sure if the short stature of the shooter and strange angle of the arrows were actual clues or just sloppy storytelling so we'd think Roy actually did it. I just don't see how this shocking new suspect is actually the guilty party if Sin's providing helpful evidence three episodes later. Unless this helpful evidence exonerates the suspect, or...I don't know, I'm tired of trying to figure it out, haha.

If Oliver does turn himself over to Ra's so he doesn't make good on his threat to kill the people of Starling, then I can see Felicity being upset with him and not trying to find him. She's always the one telling him to find another way, and I'm sure she would tell him that they could take Ra's on and fight him without Oliver having to sacrifice himself. If he decided to be all martyry and Oliver-like and noble for the cause, yeah... I can see how that tweet of MG's would come to fruition. She and Diggle and Roy (and Laurel will try, I guess) will carry on in his absence. Maybe that's how Ray gets brought into the city-saving fray as well. I don't like the idea of Thea being the actual killer, so I would rather it play out like @Morrigan2575 suggested, only minus Thea being guilty.

Yeah, good point. I had been thinking that we'd find out with everyone on the show in 3x09, not that we'd find out but they'd still be clueless. I had forgotten about the reveals in the other eps. So hopefully we'll find out not only who killed Sara but also who put them up to it. Not looking forward to that clustermess. ETA: And Oliver offering himself up to save the city would be the perfect parallel (I'm using the word perfect loosely) with his identity crisis this season. He'd literally be giving up his life for his mission.

Per the article posted in the spoiler only thread, Sin comes back in 3x12 and plays a pivotal role in the investigation into Sara's death. So the "killer" in 2x09 is a red herring, I guess. In the words of my girl Felicity, "End this." END IT NOW

Yeah, I posed that before the newest installment of the 2.5 comics came out. :)

Yeah, that's what I get from her too.

So? I never said they weren't putting those tidbits out to get people interested, I just said it might not be her actual birthday.

Yeah, if she knows where he is, then by virtue of that she knows where he isn't. Knowing where he's not doesn't necessarily mean she knows where he is, so her not looking for him doesn't make sense at all. Unless she thinks he's dead. It doesn't have to be her birthday - could just be that she mentions her age for some reason or another. Although we'll probably be hearing about all kinds of neat stuff we'll be learning about her and Digg, since they seem to be realizing that they might be losing people for a bit there.

Oh, I wasn't criticizing your thinking at all - having her crucible be one night is something this show probably would do. I also didn't know that Brick was around for three episodes - I actually don't know anything about 10-12, because I kind of tuned out once I found out that Oliver would be gone.

If those three episodes happen over one night and that's her "crucible," then those 6-12 hours must be an absolute bitch of a time, haha.

Maybe MG is being very literal with that tweet. Felicity won't be LOOKING for him, because she'll know where he is, but she will be spending her time trying to get him back? Please?

So, regarding that tweet from MG in the SPOILERS ONLY thread about Felicity not looking for Oliver while he's missing (she'll know where he is, or where he's not), they must think he's dead, right? I can't imagine her or Digg or even Roy at this point for that matter just letting him go off with Ra's al Ghul or whoever and not even try to get him back.

Only @ the EPs when you have an important question, like what happened to the love fern or when exactly Sally's going to make a cameo.

IIRC, Stephen didn't ask for the shirtless scenes to be reduced because of the upkeep on his body, it was because he had to spend too much time in the makeup chair getting the scars and tattoos applied and whatnot. He said something about it in his Girl on Guy interview with Aisha Tyler. It came up when they were talking about what it's like to be the "number one" (which is first on the call sheet, if I'm remembering right) and how demanding it is, and SA said that's why he feels okay asking the showrunners to consider him first when making the shooting schedule so he can have some time off, and also why he felt comfortable asking them to not have him shirtless if the story didn't call for it, because the makeup application was too demanding on his time.

Here's what I'm worried about re: superhero Ray. The projection of his A.T.O.M. suit was really cool, but how is this show with its budget going to make it look like something a tech guy would actually have? Fingers crossed.

I guess I don't feel like the pace is failing her so much as maybe it would be nice to get a scene or two extra with her talking to...I don't know, Diggle or someone if we can't have an outside friend for her or maybe a couple more scenes with her and Ray at work developing that relationship. I don't think anything has been rushed so far with regards to her feelings for Ray, because I don't think they actually exist yet. I think we need to see what the next few episodes hold, because so far to me it hasn't seemed rushed? He took her out for what he told her and she believed was a work dinner, and then he kissed her at the end of the night and walked away. I think part of the issue here was that EBR sold it as a date in an interview before the episode even aired, and said something along the lines that they were examining their feelings or some such thing. So we went in with the expectation of one thing, but the show didn't really show us that it was a date or that they were exploring anything at all other than Ray's desire to not be bored and Felicity's desire to wear a nice dress to a restaurant. The kiss seemed kind of quick, but it was spur-of-the-moment. We don't know what Ray's deal is, but Felicity had just heard Oliver say for the bazillionth time that he couldn't/wouldn't be with her, and a lot of her kissing Ray back probably had to do with the fact that she wants to move forward with her life. I think her kissing Ray can be likened to what happened to Oliver and the "I love you." It makes you think about things, makes you want to maybe act on them once you put it out there - maybe Felicity didn't think there was anything there until Ray said those nice things to her and kissed her - I think that's the starting point for the developing relationship (if there ever is one); I don't think we've missed anything yet.

Yeah, this was very sad. I was glad that she got a chance to have her moment of heartbreak where Oliver couldn't see though. I guess I just don't see how "fighting" for a relationship with someone who has repeatedly said both to you and in front of you that he can't/won't be in a relationship isn't pathetic? It's not like she's doggedly pursuing a job she's been turned down for or something of the like. The man she loves told her that he's scared to be himself (twice, and that not being himself precludes him from having a relationship), and that he can't have "that kind of life." His repeated assertions that he can't and won't be with her is a clear indicator that he's not ready. Why would she fight for someone who isn't ready for her and will likely wind up breaking her heart? Who's to say she even wants to fight for that? She deserves to be with the kind of person who's all in and not scared of a future with her. Right now, Oliver is not that person. If he was saying he was ready and willing to be with her but couldn't because of some outside, unpredictable force like being worried about her safety, then I think she would've fought him on it. What kind of argument is she supposed to give? That he loves her? He's not denying that. That he's scared? He told her he was. He's just flat-out saying that he can't be with her, that he has to be alone. There is nothing to be said that can change his mind without coming off as (and, IMO, being) pathetic. That's not the Felicity I love. The Felicity I love knows herself and loves herself and has enough self respect to move on when someone isn't willing to commit to her. I agree with Ceylon5 completely - the writing has been atrocious this season, but Felicity with regards to her relationship and feelings for Oliver? Spot on.

Aren't a ton of cold cases solved through DNA though? I don't just think it's a TV thing. The fact that a person leaves DNA behind doesn't make them unskilled, IMO. Leaving fingerprints on it would be an idiot move, but DNA could be anything. A flake of skin, a hair - unnoticeable stuff you wouldn't realize you were leaving behind. And it's not like this person could've double-checked the arrows after they killed her - Sara fell off the roof right after she was shot, and then Laurel dragged her bloody corpse through the streets of Starling City.

Well, it's not like they would've done it on purpose (as long as it isn't planted DNA). Could be that the killer reached back for the arrow and the end rubbed against their exposed wrist, or an arm hair got left behind somewhere. Doesn't seem like it would be fingerprints, since Team Arrow could've easily checked for those, and wouldn't need Caitlin's help to figure out who they belong to.

I loved this. Sometimes I read something and I get jealous because I didn't think of it and/or write it, and this is one of those things.

Maybe there's hair or skin cells or something in the fletching?

That is so terrible. And so probable, haha.

I feel like the only groundwork they laid for that was that she went off with Merlyn. We were all speculating as to how that would change her, and while she can fight now, she doesn't seem to have changed all that much apart from being willing to lie to her brother a bit. The only way I could buy Thea killing Sara would be if Sara had gotten herself into some shady shit/was getting ready to do something terrible. And I really hope they don't assassinate her character like that.