apinknightmare

Yeah, I was wondering if Oliver was in Starling in a flashback considering the awful hair (thankfully he had a shower?) and the SC Rockets hat.

No, not sure why anyone thinks that. SA said, "The fact that there are so many superheroes populating Starling City and Central City is going to be an important theme." He added that all of these people will also play into Oliver's journey to the end of the season. I took that to mean that more heroes would allow Oliver to have a private life and not be so consumed by his mission, not that he'd hang it all up.

Seems totally legit! And the comments to that post are...interesting.

I don't think it would've made sense for him to say goodbye to her unless he lied to her about where he was going. He wouldn't have told her he was going to Ra's - if he did you know she'd be a icicle dangling from that cliff because she would've followed him there. He never would've told her Thea killed Sara, because she's so hell-bent on vengeance for Sara's killer that no way would he have been dumb enough to even suggest that he knew who it was and wouldn't tell her. The context in which he left and the reasons for him leaving don't allow for a goodbye with Laurel, so if it was cut, I'm glad it was.

I guess maybe that could be it, but what's going to happen when Ra's still isn't dead and there's still evidence floating around that Thea killed Sara?

Didn't SA say that Malcolm and Oliver would be setting up an uneasy alliance to defeat Ra's? Or maybe one of the EPs said it. I'm pretty sure it was Stephen though, answering some kind of question about "family" with relation to Malcolm and Thea.

Well, the EPs did say that he would be trying to figure out how much of his humanity he wanted to get back in the present while he was losing it in the past. So maybe instead of coming back all grrrr killer, he's still struggling with it, although, like I wrote above, I would think he'd be so full of regret about the state of his relationships as he thought of them when he "died" that there would be no question that he'd want to go all in on them. But we're only halfway through the season, and where do they go from there? Or is the rest of the season going to deal with him cleaning up the mess he made in the first half? IDK

Yeah, I think he's going to come back different. Not hugely changed, as in Evil! Oliver, but I think this is where we're going to get down to the Oliver Queen vs. Arrow part of the story. He sort of half-assed being one or the other in the beginning of the season, and I think Ra's is going to get to him and make him try harder. I think that "I don't want to be a woman you love" is going to be like, "I don't want to be a woman you love, because I don't even know this Oliver you've become/you're becoming" kind of thing. I think that might be the impetus to him opening his eyes and maybe seeing that things aren't going to a good place, and he keeps losing more and more pieces of Oliver Queen - and he's going to decide that he wants to keep them. I could be wrong, since it would make sense that coming through an experience like that and having his very last thought be of Felicity would make him harbor some regret that that one kiss was all they ever had, but...who knows with this show.

The heroes are going to be people who regularly go out in the field-I think they're going to be necessary for Oliver to be able to find his balance, knowing he can take some time off and he doesn't have to do it all alone. So whoever they wind up being, I think we can count Felicity out as one of them.

I think it's definitely a possibility. Because I believe the point of it would be to show us how far Laurel would go to protect the people she loves, whereas I would believe they were showing me how far she'd go to be a completely terrible person, haha. Either way, I bet she and Quentin have a run-in while she's out vigilante-ing. He'll probably find out about Sara sooner rather than later, at least I hope he does, because Jesus.

Oh, I think that was definitely the point, but there was probably another way to do that without making Laurel look like a complete jackass. Not sure what it is though, but seriously. I'm going to hold out hope for it though, because it's the kind of batshit thing I could get behind on this show, unlike other batshit things.

Yeah, I don't think the ratings will suffer that much - no more so than they usually would this time of year. People will for sure tune in for 3x10 to find out what happened to Oliver. Most people know he's going to come back sooner or later, so I think that regardless of what they do with what character, people will continue to tune in, because they'll keep expecting Oliver to return. I don't hate Laurel - I just find her utterly useless, and whenever there's a chance for her to not be utterly useless in the narrative, the writers manage to bungle it. There was a chance for some real character growth for her after Sara died, but what is she doing? Is she actually looking for Sara's killer? Nah. She's taking boxing lessons to "avenge" her, even though it seems like being a vigilante is more important to her, so...what's the point? Did they take this opportunity to have this tragedy bond the Lance family closer together, which would've been nice to see since the last one drove them so far apart? Nah, Laurel keeps it a secret. Only not so much, because the only person who doesn't know is the one person who should. The whole "it's a secret, but don't tell anyone," nonsense just makes her look like a complete asshole. If I have to watch her, I'd rather her not be so useless/annoying, so...here's hoping she stops sucking in 3B (lmao, lmao, I know) To keep this on topic, I think DR's "Colin" mention was a slip, too. Because four of them would be Diggle, Laurel, Felicity and Roy. Unless he's mathematically challenged like SA, which is possible, I guess.

From an article posted in the spoilers only thread about DR's appearance at a con today: I wonder what that means? She's not going to know Sara's dead, and...what, exactly? And...ugh:

I wonder if maybe he doesn't come back a little batshit because of the Lazarus Pit or whatever is used to save him, and/or throws himself into being the Arrow for real this time, being less and less of Oliver Queen. Maybe it's not "I don't want to be a woman you love," it's "I don't want to be a woman you love," as in the person he's become after he came back, followed up by a comment about how she misses the man he used to be?

I wonder who exactly she thinks Felicity is-she saw her at Verdant hanging out with Roy in 3x08. Does she not wonder why Oliver's former EA is hanging out with Roy or how she even knows him?

Without context, I think that quote could come from a few people under a variety of situations that aren't gloom and doom (or ultimately gloom and doom). This dialogue has to be from 3x10-3x15 to 16-ish, right? Not sure how far ahead they write. Could Oliver get dosed with Vertigo again? Could it be a Vertigo hallucination of Felicity talking to him? That could show us his changing fears. Oliver used that exact phrase about Sara - could it be a Vertigo hallucination of her, voicing his fear about what happens to the women he loves? Could be Laurel to him after he finds out that she's slipping on a bondage uni and going out to fight crime. Seems like another, "I don't want to be a woman you love - they die" type of thing. Could be Felicity to Oliver in a moment of anger, although there could be a "but" after that that explains things. Could be Felicity to Ray, but I doubt it. It doesn't worry me too much, I guess. MG is in the business of riling up shippers because he knows they're (or we're, since I'm one of them) a nervous bunch and it gets people talking, which is good for him and the show. This dialogue tease aside, I'm kind of exited at the prospect of getting vengeful Felicity. I love the idea of her using Ray and his A.T.O.M. suit to try to exact revenge on Malcolm (if that's who she blames for Oliver's death), or Ra's, I guess. I suspect we'll get a romance between her and Ray after Oliver comes back, which...ick, but I know it's coming. Hopefully the show surprises me and it either a) doesn't or b) isn't all that serious or short-lived. If I have to watch her with another guy, I'd rather it not be Ray. Back to that quote and how it could be linked to Felicity, I'm guessing the Lazarus Pit or however he's revived could be a contingency that he didn't let anyone know about (which would be wise, in case it didn't work) in case he died? The only way he could've "faked" it is if Ra's is in on it, which I guess he could be, considering he didn't stab him through the heart and only kicked him a little ways down, but...eh, the faking theories get really convoluted and I don't have the brain power to think about it at this time of morning. Nyssa and/or Maseo could've been in on it too, but I wouldn't consider that a fake so much as a contingency.

They're all going to think he's dead at some point, otherwise the dramatic payoff is nil and then what would be the point? And I think that's kind of a troll answer, haha. I want to know if this person who doubts that he's dead thinks he's alive all along, or if they're going to find something that leads them to believe that he's alive after they thought he was dead. Or is it just going to be a "feeling," like Dinah Lance v. 2.0. Oh god, maybe it is Laurel. MG tweeted that the person who tells them that Oliver's dead "makes sense." I wonder if Diggle got Lyla to track him or if Maseo infiltrated the league for A.R.G.U.S., and she's the one who delivers the news? If there's no body, either Lyla has to tell them or they have to have seen him "die" via a satellite or something. Otherwise I'm crying foul, because who else would they trust to be right?

I just noticed that when Oliver tells Roy that Ra's won't kill him because he's fighting for Thea, the very next shot is Oliver stabbing someone through the lung with an arrow. God, show, you drop anvils everywhere and the one time I needed it to hit me over the head, it didn't. Ugh.

It makes sense if she put a tracker on him or hacked a satellite to find him. Or if "where he is" means dead and "where he isn't" means alive, haha.

This is the only way I would accept her or Diggle believing he was dead without a body. Although...then they'd go get him, right? Surely they wouldn't allow him to just be dead there on the side of a mountain. Or they would see that someone had come to get him. IDK (I don't like the thought of her watching him die either). Although...it does make sense. Lyla did ask her if she had hacked into an A.R.G.U.S. satellite in the last ep - maybe that was for a reason.

Right, but Diggle has never once shown any desire to be the frontman of that operation, so yeah, maybe we should agree to disagree. :)

But I'm not arguing that Diggle's role hasn't decreased? It just doesn't make sense to me that his role would change (the costumed hero taking the lead, him being backup), just because Oliver is gone, which is what I thought you were arguing?

It is different than Roy. Roy's been suited up and fighting crime for months. Isn't it natural that he'd continue doing that and Dig would keep on supporting him like he had been when Oliver and then Oliver and Roy were out in the field? Seems to me like it's the status quo, minus one person.It's not like Diggle didn't spend a ton of time in that van/a car when it was just Oliver.

I have no problem with it. Diggle has always been the backup-he's only been the frontman once, when he went out as Arrow to fool SCPD. I wouldn't expect Diggle to take Oliver's place, regardless of whether he's a father or not.

I actually don't mind Roy for a few eps. I'd watch him over Laurel any day and twice on Sundays. Their marketing is amusing.