apinknightmare

They aren't necessarily - some of her pics get posted in the social media thread.

Yeah, the whole "I can't be Oliver and The Arrow" storyline is/was ill-concieved. Because the only way he's not letting himself be Oliver Queen is by being with Felicity. They should've just had him tell her that his excitement over being with her distracts him and people are in danger when he's distracted, so he couldn't allow himself to be with her. But I guess that would've been much less dramatic, haha.

The abs yeah, but since the OP was commenting on her boxing muscles, I assumed they were talking about her arms, since she's frequently posting pics of her biceps on Twitter and such. Whether or not anyone thinks that beach pic looks muscular, it's not even close to how her arms look when she posts workout pics - probably because she's not flexing.

Oh, there most definitely are more organic reasons to keep them apart, I'm just assuming (hopefully incorrectly) that Ray's gonna be a reason. And while I don't like it, I wouldn't judge Felicity for it. I absolutely agree with you that her getting into a relationship with him while Oliver's "dead" would taint her mourning and make me question her feelings for the guy - I wouldn't like that at all. I just think that once Oliver comes back all bets are off in that department. And true, Digg did say that. But then Oliver went off to PI to tell Felicity whatever he was going to tell her, saw her kissing Ray, and then did nothing. So whatever held him back then could still possibly be holding him back when he returns. But I hope not.

She's toned, but she's not muscular. And she's also not flexing like she usually is in the pics she posts where she does look ripped - so that's probably the issue.

Right, at this particular point, that isn't Ray. But he and Felicity also aren't together. I expect that IF they were ever to get together, he'd be all in, and there wouldn't be any wishy-washiness on his part. He's open with her - she'll know where she stands with him. After all this time she still doesn't know where she stands with Oliver. He loves her, yeah, but he's not doing anything about it. Maybe that'll change when he comes back. I hope it does, and that nothing comes to fruition between her and Ray, and that Oliver will be honest with her and they'll work things out together. I just highly, highly doubt that'll happen. IDK, to me, being open to allowing him to prove himself to her and giving him a second chance does not mean she has to put her life on hold to wait for that to happen, because in her mind chances are high that he'll get spooked again and push her away. But I think that Oliver thinking that she's already in a relationship with Ray is going to come into play somehow - he's either going to think she's happy and not want to ruin it and realize that he wants to be with her so badly that he can't deny himself anymore, so he won't say anything for a while and maybe by that point Felicity and Ray ARE in a relationship, since he'll have come back after telling her he loves her and done nothing about it - so it's just another "maybe" to her - and she thought he wasn't serious...or something along those lines. I doubt it would be that cut and dry, and I don't think she would flat-out deny him in any way that would be hurtful to him. She's not that kind of person. I'd also be surprised if he's initially that forthright and open with her, but I hope this show does surprise me. Like I wrote above, I really would like it if nothing ever happened with Ray, Oliver came back to fight for her and she let him, they grew closer and then got into a relationship together. That is definitely my preferred course of action. I just really don't think I'm going to get that. At all, not by a long shot.

This was his response (the person asked if Oliver thought Ray and Felicity were in a romantic relationship after he saw them kissing): No. He just thinks she had something stuck in her teeth and asked him to remove it with his tongue. It's all good. Smart ass answer, but I think that Oliver telling Barry that he needed to let go of Iris for both their sakes while looking at Felicity, then telling he loved her but kissing her on the forehead when he said goodbye - you can read between the lines that Oliver thinks they're together.

Well, first of all, he doesn't "let" her do anything. And he thinks Felicity and Ray are already in a relationship (per MG) after seeing them kissing at PI, so he's already walked away from that. I didn't think he was going to say, 'don't get into a relationship with him, because I want you to be in a relationship with me,' - he thinks she's already in one. I figured he'd just start to show her that he was a) serious about her and b) the better option for her all the while thinking she was with someone else. I don't really care if/how all this happens, honestly, I just take real issue with the notion that Felicity is somehow a bad person or OOC or not being true to herself and her feelings or being vindictive or whatever for possibly wanting to pursue something with someone who openly wants to be with her, and has no issues whatsoever about committing to her. Oliver can love her all he wants, but until he's willing to do something about it and prove that he's in it for real this time, I personally don't need any other reason for her to be with someone else. I'm sure it was nice for Felicity to finally hear Oliver tell her that he loves her, but does that change anything? Not really. There's a broken bridge between them, and he needs repair the damage he did to it by repeatedly backing away from her. If Oliver comes back and tells Felicity he wants to be with her and she says, "That's nice. Prove it," and she continues to flirt or kiss or whatever with Ray or whoever else she chooses, that's fine by me. Because Oliver's given her every reason to believe that he's going to back off again, and she doesn't owe him anything. She owes it to herself to be true to her feelings and if her feelings are that she loves Oliver but doesn't trust him to really commit to her and doesn't want to wait around in case he isn't ever able to? There will be no judgment from me. And ultimately it's not even worth caring about since I know they'll get together eventually.

yeah, I initially thought the seats in the back were facing the opposite direction, because the economy seats seemed to be slanted too far forward or something.

Yeah, it's tough to tell - it looks like GG and JB are in seats that are facing a different direction than the rest. I've never been on a plane where the different classes were facing different directions - unless they're not and it just looks that way.

She's standing in coach to be in the picture - she could be sitting anywhere. ETA: Not trying to say she's not going to LA for personal reasons - that's the most likely scenario.

Could she be going to the TCAs with the cast for some other reason, but just not be appearing on the panel? She could be taking a personal trip, but it seems a little coincidental that if she was she'd end up on the same plane with other CW people and seated in the same section.

Ah, I don't look at the real estate section. It just seems like a strange practice. I know real estate purchases are public record, but it's one thing to allow people to go looking, but another to write an article about it, especially when the location is so specific and anyone could find it - I figured he would have to have approved a write-up like that - not "announced" it per se. Just allowed it to be put out there like it was, I guess.

Hopefully they bought that as a fixer-upper. Do they normally list celebrity purchases in the newspaper like that? I figured they'd do it for super famous people, maybe, but Stephen isn't that famous. Did one of his people have that announced or something?

Nothing happened to it, I think it's just the position. He's holding it like he did when he cupped Felicity's face when he kissed her.

He's not missing any fingers.

I'd prefer that too, but I'm just trying to prepare myself, if you can't tell, haha. I'll be okay if there's dating after Oliver comes back, but if it's before I'm gonna be...not so pleased. When the spoilers about Ray first came out I really wanted to be on the Ray train. Now? Not so much.

Well, in my mind it's not a scenario where Oliver says, "I'm going to make you trust me," and Felicity replies with, "Yes, I will give you the chance to earn my trust," it's going to be something that just sort of happens. Oliver already thinks that she's in a romantic relationship with Ray (MG said so on Twitter). Fighting for her doesn't have to be a verbal thing - Oliver doesn't have to tell her he's doing it. He's said he wants her to be happy, so I always thought he would just gradually show her that he's changed and is committed to her by just being himself - a man who loves her - and the more he does that, the more she'll realize that Ray? He ain't the guy. I mean, she's kissed Ray. She hasn't had sex with him, she hasn't done anything more than accept a kiss and some comfort from him, and she's offered him her comfort when he was talking about his dead fiancee. Nothing else. And, you know, she's already started the process of trying to move on - just the last episode we found out that she thinks Oliver regrets kissing her. She hasn't confessed her love to him, and maybe she's trying to push it down herself because his repeated rejection of her (and her belief that he regrets pursuing her at all) might just make her feel like in the end she'll just be hurt by her feelings for him. It's a scary, dangerous thing, so...knowing her history and having seen what she's been through with Oliver, it seems natural that she would go for someone safe. She loves Oliver, she just has to let herself do it. If/when she gets with Ray, she'll realize that perfect on paper isn't going to make her happy, that loving Oliver is a risk, and that in the end the risk of getting hurt will be worth loving him. IMO it doesn't cheapen anything at all.

Yeah, I'd rather her choose almost anyone but him. But he's the choice they're giving her and I've accepted it so as to keep my blood pressure at a reasonable level when they inevitably go for it.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. Just because she doesn't need a man to feel worthwhile doesn't mean there's anything wrong with wanting to share her life with someone - we already know that she wants that. She tried it with Oliver and he pushed her away. And she didn't JUST turn down a relationship with Barry because of her feelings for Oliver, Barry turned one down with her because of his feelings for Iris. I don't think there's anything wrong with not wanting to wait for someone who might never be ready and trying to move on with your life, and I don't think she should feel obligated to stay single just because it might hurt Oliver's feelings. He had his chances. Plural - more than one, and he squandered every one of them. She can love Oliver and still try to move on with her life because she thinks it might not happen with him. Just because she loves Oliver (and I honestly have no doubt that she really, truly does) doesn't mean that she should put him and his feelings above what she wants out of life. If she wants to share her life with someone and he repeatedly tells her he can't be that person, I'm glad she loves herself enough to see what else is out there for her, even if it doesn't work out. But I'm with you in that I hope it's resolved in a couple of months.

It's not like there's going to be 40 straight minutes of Laurel. Even her "centric" eps last season (and "Sara" in this season) have had a pretty fair amount of other players involved. The chances of more Diggle and Felicity are even higher without Oliver around to take up story time. So, he's a troll, but it's not like they won't be in the eps. Will they be in them working as a team the way most of us would probably like? That's another story, since Felicity will be all...whatever with Ray, I'm sure.

I won't buy that she loves him if she jumps into a relationship with Ray while Oliver's gone, but once he comes back, why not? Even if Oliver comes back and is ready to get into a relationship on day 1, why should Felicity risk her heart? I mean, she can date Ray a bit to see how that feels while Oliver works out his business and proves to her that he's ready to get his shit together. I don't see the problem with it, and I don't think that means she loves Oliver any less. I think it just means she doesn't trust him to commit to her the way she wants, but she's going to try to be happy in the meantime.

Or maybe there actually is a fair amount of Diggle and Felicity in these eps. Crazier things have happened.

She knows that he loves her but is unwilling to do anything about it. That's what matters. By my count, he's jerked her around (albeit, like I wrote before, not maliciously) five times, at least. He told her he loved her in the mansion - refused to do anything about it AND refused to take it back. He told her he could maybe be with her on their date, then took it back in the hallway. Then in that very hallway told her he loved her by asking her not to ask him to say he didn't. He tried that "and you know how I feel about her" mess after the Cooper situation - wanted to put his feelings out there and AGAIN not do anything about it, told her AGAIN he wanted her but couldn't be with her when he was talking to Carrie Cutter, then finally told her outright he loved her right as he went off and died. She can love him all she wants, but is she supposed to wait around for him to want to be with her? Even if he comes back and immediately tells her he wants to be with her, why should she believe him? He's given her every indication that he'll back off when it matters. He has her heart - he just needs to earn her trust with it. That's going to take some time. Am I going to fault her for trying to find happiness with someone else in the meantime? Nah. Am I going to hold it against her for trying to be happy when the man she loves is unwilling/unavailable/unreliable? Nope. Do I wish it was with almost anyone but Ray? Absolutely. I just can't get behind the notion that Felicity only truly loves Oliver if she's willing to jump into a relationship with him the second he says okay despite the fact that he's (repeatedly) given her every single reason to believe that's probably not a very good idea.

He did-MG said as much in the tweet.