apinknightmare

Well, the app is wrong. It's on the Paley website as a joint event, and the tickets are being sold on Ticketmaster as a joint event.

My dad is 10 years older than my mom, which I generally don't think is a big deal, but she had me when she was 19, so he was...yeah, I try not to think about it too much. I also try not to think about real-life actor age differences just so I don't get squicked, so O/F don't bother me, especially since they're only 4 years apart in the show and I think EBR passes for 25-ish as Felicity.

Oliver was born in May 1985, so he's still 29. Which seems crazy to me, but I have no choice but to go with it. :)

No, it's a joint panel starting at 4PM.

Yeah, with regards to Felicity, I feel like they still would've had some of the same issues, but they would've been dealt with differently. So I think the tenor of things would've changed and maybe some of the decisions Oliver made would've been different. Like, he definitely would've gone to Nanda Parbat the first time, but I don't think he would've gone the second time. If they were together, they would've talked, and probably still disagreed. But they would've talked. I guess it ultimately doesn't matter since the whole reason Oliver is having this identity crisis and dialing back two years worth of progress is so Malcolm Merlyn could reappear and we could have some shitty LoA plotline and of course so we could bring Ray and Laurel into the hero mix, so...bleh.

Felicity's fought for him for two years - it's time for Oliver to learn to fight for himself since him thinking he can't BE himself is his whole reason for why he can't be with her. Maybe Thea is his date. Or maybe he goes solo since he thinks relationships distract him from his mission and therefore probably wouldn't try to bring a date date anyway?

She gave him the chance to renege and he didn't. I'd consider that a "maybe," since he should've just said he was sorry for leading her on, even if he wasn't sure exactly how he was feeling about her at that time or if he wanted to pursue those feelings if he was sure about them. And he literally said maybe in the restaurant when he told her "Remember when I said that because of what we do I didn't think that I could be with someone I could really care about? Maybe I was wrong." Not I was wrong, i want to be with you, but maybe. I think that's what she meant. ETA: He also said that he couldn't be Oliver Queen and the Arrow. "Not now, maybe not ever." Still leaving the door open for a relationship. Yes he did. He brought his feelings up in 3x05, and she cut him off after he mentioned them. And I get him telling her that he loved her before he left - he would've regretted it if he didn't, but then his whole "That's not why you're upset," when she was going after him about teaming up with Merlyn, implying that she was upset because he didn't come back wanting to be with her is an asshole thing to say since HE was the one who said "I love you" right before he left, especially considering he was cocky enough to think he was going to win. So, did he put that out there not intending to do anything about it when he returned? I mean, yeah...he was going off to die, but he did think he was coming back.

Assuming she realizes she loves him, then I think it's just a way of protecting herself. If she does realize she loves him, I get it. It's probably difficult for her to make herself vulnerable to him. I mean, not only has he backed away from her, but now he's being straight-up reckless with his own life. Maybe she thinks if she doesn't say it, if he doesn't know, that will make things easier for her if he cuts her off again, or, god forbid, actually dies. Or can you imagine how amplified the heartbreak would be if she told him she loved him and it still didn't change anything? I'd keep it locked up tight too. But I get people who wouldn't - I think your life experiences greatly determine how much you're willing to put out there for people. And it's nice to see Oliver making himself vulnerable, but why exactly is he being so emotionally honest with her? She asked him not to, and he still did it repeatedly. If he's doing it because he just wants her to know how he feels, then he's being selfish by putting that out there and refusing to do anything about it, especially since she asked him not to. If he's doing it because he's just so head-over-heels batshit crazy in love with her that he can't keep his mouth shut, then he should visit a proctologist for an evaluation to get his head removed from his ass so he can do something about that. Is it because he feeds off the angst that putting it out there and denying himself the payoff brings? Like...he's hurting and it's understandable, but he keeps doing it to himself? I feel for him and I get it, but at the same time it's like...stop, dude. Just stop until you're willing and ready to take some action.

I don't think it was a rejection, it was just a reiteration of what he'd already told her, which surely hurt her to hear again. And I think it affected her interaction with Ray later that evening, like all things Oliver does tend to do because plot.

Right after he said over the comms that he knew what it was like to want someone and not be able to be with them? That he had to be alone? Why would Oliver tell her he loved her if he thought she was with Ray? Why would he think that wouldn't change things for her when he came back?

Because at that point he hadn't told her he loved her repeatedly and followed it up by either telling her he still couldn't be with her or leaving or generally still being unwilling to commit? Because he hadn't teamed up with a dude who drugged his sister to kill his ex-girlfriend? Oliver gave Felicity hope at the end of 3x09, but when she realized nothing had changed and that he was doing dumb shit on top of that, she finally put the kibosh on it. Eleven episodes after she asked him to stop dangling maybes and he still did. That could be why. And I never argued that Oliver was 100% to blame, just that Felicity isn't getting a free pass for behaving the same way Oliver is, because the situations aren't the same.

The distinction is that Oliver turned Felicity down when she was ready to get into a relationship with him - he's running from his feelings. Felicity told him she didn't want to be a woman he loved after telling him that she fantasized that he'd come home and want to do things differently, part of which included being in a relationship with her. He wasn't offering that - he was still unwilling to be with her. The OP asked why Felicity was getting a pass for doing the same thing Oliver's doing. She's not - the situation would be comparable if she turned him down after he was willing to commit - she didn't.

Fair point, but I meant in the way that he was ready to get into a relationship and she was the one who said that she couldn't. That's something I think could be likened to what Oliver's doing right now. She hasn't done that.

Well, Oliver's scared to be/ thinks he can't be himself and therefore is unable to be in a relationship with her. Has Felicity ever told him she didn't think she could be with him (when he himself was ready to commit to her? <---ETA)? She was ready to get into a relationship - you can tell by that hopeful little "Oliver, are you..." that she managed to get out after he told her that maybe he was wrong and that he could be with someone he could really care about right before the restaurant blew up during their date. He removed himself from the situation because he was scared - he flat-out told Felicity he was while they were on the steps of Queen Consolidated (RIP) after he lost his bid for the company. So Oliver is legit running from his feelings by trying to lose himself in the hood. Felicity isn't doing that. Maybe she's not letting herself admit that she loves Oliver, but how exactly is that affecting their relationship? He's the one constantly backing off. She's moving on with Ray (a questionable choice, yes, but it is the one the show has provided her with) because Oliver isn't an option for her - he took himself out of the running several times so far. So she's either hiding or not acknowledging feelings for a person who has repeatedly told her he loves her but that he's not going to do anything about it. So... what choice does she have? Admit she loves him and be miserable about it even though there is absolutely nothing she can do about it, or bury it down deep and try to move on?

Ain't that the truth.

Could be, but it seemed like it was something that was really personal. Why would he care if he and Oliver both happened to be ordained by the Church of the Internet? Then again, the dude seems a tad weird at times, so maybe that is it.

Looks like it. And Superman looks like some random lunkhead with barely concealed roid rage. At least he doesn't have a mullet though? That's all I've got.

Yeah, surely they must be doing something with that virus? I would say that unleashing a virus doesn't really seem like Ra's style considering the LoA "code" or whatever, but he did threaten to kill 50 innocent civilians to get Oliver to turn over Sara's killer, so who even knows at this point.

Haha, I was just typing that. Also, I know it's a comic and it doesn't matter, but it's really stupid to superhero without sleeves.

I wonder if Nyssa or Maseo will somehow stage a coup? Seems unlikely, but I think that's the only way they could go up against the LoA - if they had some LoA on their side. Since Ra's likes to kill his sparring partners, maybe some members would be open to suggestion? I can't really figure out how the whole LoA thing is going to play out. I thought for sure Oliver would take the offer, then I thought for sure he wouldn't. Then I thought he would, but now...I don't know.

The thing that's different this season as opposed to other seasons with regards to Oliver's personal life is that he has been very straightforward with Felicity that he loves her and he wants to be with her but he feels like he can't. So to me, it's nice to see him not being impulsive with other women or even trying to move on, because I believe what he's telling her whereas I didn't believe he ever loved Laurel because of the things he did while he supposedly had feelings for her. I believe that he truly wants what he says he does and that he doesn't want to settle and really does feel like he can't be with someone (as opposed to last season where he told Felicity he didn't think he could be with someone he could truly care about and then went and slept with and got into a relationship with Sara - I thought he was just letting her down easy). If Oliver were repeatedly a romantic sad sack or hadn't been in any kind of sexual or romantic relationship for years because he wanted Felicity, I'd see the issue here. But this is one area where he actually is being shown to have learned from his mistakes and being true to himself. He said he couldn't be with anyone, that he had to be alone. If he truly feels that way, then why on earth would he date? Why would he try to move on? So he could maybe fall in love with someone else he also couldn't have a relationship with? Because the issue isn't Felicity. It's HIM. He and Felicity aren't apart because she's with Ray, they're apart because Oliver's scared of what would happen if he let himself be himself. Is it stupid? Yeah. But it's what we're being told, and it's one of the few things they're actually sticking to in the narrative.

Because now he actually loves Felicity and knows it and it's not so easy to find comfort in meaningless sex, I imagine. Why is it so wrong for this guy to show some emotional growth? I know you seem to think it's emasculating, but he's being true to himself and how he feels. He's told her he loves her and he can't be with her, and for him that means not being with anyone if it isn't her. I don't see why that's so bad or emasculating, quite frankly. Bringing a date (assuming he doesn't, because for all we know Laurel could be his de facto wedding hang buddy) just because Felicity has one or to make himself feel better is something a previous season's Oliver would do.

The whole point of him not being with Felicity is that he loves her but doesn't think he can be Oliver Queen. If he can't be Oliver Queen and be with the woman he actually loves, then why would he move on with someone else when he theoretically, according to his identity crisis, couldn't be with her either?

Why would Oliver need to save face? He and Felicity would be together if he didn't keep backing away. SHE would be his plus one if he wasn't being such a self-defeating idiot.

I really do think his hand is on the table. Seems the forearm area near his wrist definitely is. Poor guy. It's rough being all noble and love stupid and watching your girl catch the bouquet and then run off with her internet ordained minister billionaire boyfrand. :( :( :(