WearyTraveler

The show is Schroedinger's cat! I agree with your analysis here, and I think that Damon was more for always giving Lost a supernatural explanation but several things happened that prevented that. I have no way of knowing if my theory is true, and this is a topic to discuss this episode of The Leftovers, so, I'll not go into it. What I will say, though is that I don't think this show is as unfocused as Lost seemed to me at times (and I loved Lost, I thought the character study was quite effective, even if I didn't much like the crazy science). I think this show has a very clear direction and is quite tight with its themes. I know the episode title is probably meant to remind us of Mary and Joseph, but I thought Matt's physical and emotional journey here had some very strong parallels with Jonah's (from the bible). He even walked into the dark "belly" of the "big fish", and was expelled in a gush of water, ending up in the camp grounds (Nineveh?) and doing the repentance himself. This episode made me think a lot and I have a ton of ideas swirling in my head. I don't know if I'll get around to posting all of them (busy time at work), but I liked that this show has me pondering stuff. Good times!

A while ago, I watched a few episodes of Cutthroat Kitchen (just bear with me for a minute). On that show 4 chefs compete against each other for money. Each chef gets the same amount of money at the beginning of the competition; then, during each round chefs get the opportunity to bid for different objects and perks while they are cooking their dishes. These objects could be something to make life easier for them (for example an extra ingredient, or piece of equipment), or something to hinder a competitor (for example, the opportunity to make a competitor stop working for a few minutes, or cook with child size implements, etc.). At the end of the competition, the winning chef gets to keep all the money he/she didn't use to bid. After each round another chef who has not been privy to the shenanigans during the cooking portion (i.e. the chef doesn't know who had less time for cooking, or was hindered by another competitor), tastes the food and declares a winner. The contestants are not allowed to explain to the judge why their food is not up to par, other than describing their dish, they can't say anything else. I wonder what would happen in Project Runway if contestants and judges didn't meet each other until Fashion Week. Imagine that the judges only judge the clothes, with no commentary from the designer, much like it happens today in the fashion world anyway. We see pictures and fashion shows but we don't get a detailed account of what every garment represents. People critiquing / reviewing these collections may say things like "this dress pays celebrates nature because of its color" or something like that, and then the designer gets to say something in interviews, but not much before. So, PR could do a completely anonymous season. The designers never talk to the judges, and they watch the runway through a TV screen, getting the critiques that way. They can call out top and bottom looks right after the runway with all the models standing there without the designers, the models can then immediately walk down to the judges for the closer look portion. Winners and losers can then be announced. They can keep all their workroom "drama" and the TG save if they want, the judges wouldn't necessarily know that a designer was saved. We wouldn't get sob stories trying to sway the judges, and we would eliminate any biases (conscious or unconscious) on the judges' part.

Me too. I think we are meant to surmise that he hits his wife and other women with whom he sleeps. No. The plan was for Ed to hit the tree head-on, but the car skidded on the ice, so he ended up hitting it in the rear. When the tow truck is there, Peggy and Ed have a conversation in which he says that he "got it right the second time" and we see damage to the front of the car. Peggy also says that if anyone asks, they are supposed to say that the damage to the back of the car was because she backed into their garage door, which wouldn't produce that kind of damage, but Peggy apparently thinks people will just buy their story. ETA: Cristina beat me to it by a few seconds. I have to learn to be more succinct! LOL!

You know? I think if Candace took the black jacket and put in with red outfit and vice versa, she might have gotten a less harsh critique.

I'm late to this party! I didn't know we had started and only found out today, but I'll try to catch up. Lady S. I think that Tyrion didn't have Janos go overboard because he was made a Lord, while Deem wasn't. Two deaths are more suspicious than one and if one of them is a Lord maybe the King is bound to take an interest, particularly since this King made Janos a Lord. In short, I think the decision was more political than moral.

That sounds plausible. I like that idea! ------------------- Regarding Sansa's role, I'm leaning toward Lady S. theory that Sansa will have a role like Cat had.

That made me laugh! :D

That would be great for the actress, poor thing. A whole season playing a catatonic state can't be easy. I imagine all the takes she has to do without moving a muscle and I think that it must be very difficult. It's also such a 180 turn from her probably most known role as Donna in The West Wing, that I sometimes forget it's the same actress.

Me too!!!

I'm not fond of the theory that we need to repeat the story of Nisa-Nisa to temper Jon's sword, but, maybe, just maybe that's Mel's final role. As the most devout follower of the Lord of Light, her body will be the ultimate sacrifice she can make to her God to atone for her mistakes and to help Azor Ahai forge his weapon. Jon stabbing her with Longclaw and pulling Lightbringer out of her body would be satisfying, and true to the lore that Lightbringer will be pulled from the "fire".

I don't think Ichabod is flirting. What does that even look like for a person like him? I'd agree he's flattered and that Zoe hasn't demonstrated her obsession in a physical way yet (like Andy did), but there's a reason Abbie pointed out the huge number of text messages twice in the episode. And that most of them had nothing to do with the citizenship issue. I think Ichabod doesn't really see how wrong all those messages are because they are lighthearted so far. I don't think he quite understands our modern stalkers yet. Specially because the messages are not romantic in nature (as in she's not professing her undying love for him in any of them). He's responding to some of them, not all, and I think he's doing it believing it's a sort of friendship and nothing more. He's not asking her out for coffee or a movie, and if he's gallant to her, it's because he's from colonial times and thinks that's the way he should act. I think he believes she only wanted to help him with his legal issue and that they are becoming friends. When Joe told him that it was good that he was "moving on" (from Katrina), Ichabod didn't quite understand what he meant at first, and then denied it. He has no reason to lie to Joe, as he's not, that we know off, some philandering type trying to collect women. And so, he wouldn't be afraid of admitting he was pursuing a relationship with one because another one could find out. He also keeps telling Abbie that the whole thing is just about citizenship and I think that's because it's what he believes. I have a feeling we're headed toward boiling rabbit territory with this one, and Ichabod will be more surprised than everyone else. Also (although that may be a question for the episode thread), why is it ok for Abbie to claim "boundaries" when Ichabod asks about her boss but not for Ichabod to claim "boundaries" when Abbie goes through his phone? I mean, I didn't mind it that much, but that seemed strange to me.

I do agree that minorities in general are not adequately represented on TV and movies. And I understand that for a long time black women have been tropes. That said, I don't think the solution is to push for Abbie to be a certain way for the sole purpose of a trope being subverted. I think that the solution is first to change our society, second to cast black women in all kinds of roles and third to not expect television to be our moral beacon or lead the charge in social change. As for all the black women before Olivia Pope, I disagree that all of them were stereotypes. Off the top of my head I recall very well drawn black females in The L Word, there was The Cosby Show, The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, A Different World, Living Single... They had all kinds of black women. And I understand that most of these shows were made "for black people", but I watched them and enjoyed them all. And just like every other TV show out there, they had their ups and downs. Also, before Olivia Pope, there was Vanessa Williams in Ugly Betty and Desperate Housewives, Angela Bassett in ER, Cicely Tyson in Roots... I agree there were very few worthy roles for black women on TV, but to say that none before Olivia Pope were so is an exaggeration IMO. Julia, on 26 Oct 2015 - 12:16 AM, said: LOL! Touché! Point taken. I think that's a very valid point. They should have Abbie address her choices on screen.

I'll agree to disagree on the role of TV as our moral beacon. You won't change my mind, and I suspect I won't change yours. I'll just say this: TV shows are a product, if the product is bad, but it sells, the problem is the morals of the buyer, and unless that changes first, the product won't change. Why do we get so many "sexy" women on TV with revealing wardrobe? Because it sells. If TV stopped doing that, it wouldn't change anything, as the people who want to see scantily clad women would get their fix somewhere else. As to Abbie, I don't think the show (not Twitter, but the show, the episodes, the actual canon) is saying Abbie doesn't need romance. She clearly does from time to time, as she has had boyfriends and relationships that we know about. The show has also had characters interested in her romantically, so, it's also not saying that she's unattractive. I again don't see the problem. I don't care if she's black, blue, orange or white, the character of Abbie Mills not actively looking for romance, given everything else she has to do, and the incredibly important job she has of saving the whole wide world, makes sense to me. I can see a person (any person) under those circumstances making exactly those choices. The same goes for Ichabod, Jenny and baby Corbin. The job they have should be the most important thing in their lives right now, particularly with Pandora loose in Sleepy Hollow. If they had any other job, then I'd say go for it, have lives, my children, look for a partner and be happy! But they don't have any ordinary job, so, no, it wouldn't feel right to me. As a Latina who has lived in the US and whose race is also the target of many a stereotype and trope, I can sympathize with the need to have better representation on TV, but I think only if the role warrants it. If it doesn't then it feels like lip service and fake, done only to appease people and not because the role was well-written.

I don't have a problem with how Abbie's love life is represented on the show, and I wouldn't say it's sexless. She had a boyfriend that she dumped in season 1, Andy fell in love with her, and Hawley had the hots for her at some point (which ewww!, but that's for another thread). She also had a long relationship with a fellow recruit at the FBI academy, but he's now her boss, and it seems there's still some attraction there, which makes their interactions a little uncomfortable for the characters, but I think that is realistic.. She's not actively looking for anyone right now, that we know off, but neither is Ichabod or Jenny, for that matter. This season we haven't seen any of our core protagonists purposely go out and look for love in the present time (yeah, I know Ichabod kind of has a stalker, but that's on her, he's certainly not looking for romance), and I think that's fine, given that they are a bit preoccupied with saving the world. I don't need to see any of these characters, including Abbie, trying to find a date or pick someone up at a bar. That would be a distraction to the main story. Now if something blossomed between Ichabod and Abbie because of their partnership and because they spend so much time together, that would feel organic to me, but any of them searching for someone.... no, that wouldn't feel right. And it's not because they have a job, it's because they have a very particular job. I also don't think that TV shows have any duty to present role models to the masses. That job belongs elsewhere.

They don't have to add anyone. The Project Runway show at Fashion Week always has 6 or more designers (I think one year they had 9). They do this because FW happens while they are still airing the show and if they only showed the finalists' collections we would all know, ahead of time who made it. So, they have the last 6 or so designers do a collection for FW. If you look it up online, you'll be able to see the collections of every one from PR that showed at Fashion week. On the show, they just show us the collections of the finalists, the ones who still have a shot at winning all the prizes. Also, the first time Tim used the save it wasn't even called the TG safe. He used it on Michelle, who went on to win the whole thing. IIRC Michelle had been booted and the other finalists were sent abroad for inspiration for their FW collections. According to the story weaved for the show, Tim went to the judges after they offed Michelle and told them he thought they'd made a mistake. So, they gave Michelle the opportunity to design a collection, but they didn't send her abroad with the others. If the judges deemed her collection good enough, she'd get to be back in the game for the grand prize. After that, they formally instituted the Tim Gunn save for subsequent seasons because they supposedly saw the value of Tim's wisdom, since they had offed the designer that actually had a winning collection (as an aside, say what you will about Michelle, and her personality on camera is not what I would call stellar, but that was one heck of a collection she sent down the runway that season).

I read both articles and I have to say that doesn't sound bad to me, at all. I was skeptical of the crossover, but this thing might actually work.

From the article: "We also have this great image of Emilia Clarke, Lena Headey and Natalie Dormer in costume, sadly not an upcoming Three-Queens-Hang-Out-Together Season Six plot-twist, but an Alacazaba photo shoot shared by Juego de Tronos on Twitter" Sadly, a photoshoot for a magazine doesn't mean a show plot point. There has been no evidence so far of the three actresses filming together. Dany seems to be still stuck in Essos, swinging the Dothraki to her side by showing them Drogon's power. That said, I do think that the three Queens refers to these three and they will eventually meet. I have never been a believer in any of the Queen Sansa theories.

Maybe when Jon comes back, he will do so with the benefit of having seen a lot of things that went on while he was "dead", including Shireen's death. (she said, hoping against hope, perhaps)

No Brody this episode. But perhaps you're not insane, maybe it was a technical glitch, or a rerun?

Well, that would be great. Hopefully it happens. He caught up with next season, but can he keep ahead of HBO?

He needed a reason for the mother to call her ex immediately. It's obvious the ex told her he'd be away for a few days and gave her a burner number to call in case of emergencies only. Quinn would figure out that if he's with Carrie, she's calling the shot when it comes to their security, and that she would set up a "safe" communications method between father and son. Quinn could have waited to see if they called, but that would entail hours upon hours of listening to her bugged phone. He just picked a shorter route.

I don't think the problem is the meeting, it's the payment that causes an issue. Any money going to Hezbollah is going to be used against the US, and that's a big no-no. You're not supposed to give them any money, no matter how altruistic your cause. It sort of defeats the purpose of the donation, doesn't it? "I want to give 10 billion dollars to the refugee cause, and I just gave 40,000 to one of the organizations destabilizing the region so I can make this speech". I understand that the amounts greatly differ, but, on moral grounds it's just wrong.

I would say it is a soft reboot

Well, I think you have to judge for yourself. It's different and yet feels the same in some ways. It's been a while since we've discussed the show, so I've forgotten some of our discussions, but I think some of the things you didn't like from last season are gone or treated differently this season. Also, IIRC, last year the media reviews were split, but the positive ones were winning, and you didn't like a lot of things on the show, so your view was diametrically opposed to the media consensus. Maybe the media thread is not a good indicator to make your decision. I think you should give it a try. I'm liking it, but then again, I liked last season and you didn't, so maybe my word is not the best guideline for you :D In other news, I was wondering where you were since you said you'd give the new season a try and I didn't see you in the discussion threads. It'd be interesting to read your thoughts, if you feel so inclined.

Well, as Cardie pointed out, Nora's house presented a statistical anomaly because three people separated only by a very short distance disappeared. It is heavily implied that the other people who disappeared were not as close to each other as Nora's family were. So, from a scientific point of view, her house is worth looking into, specially the area around her kitchen table. So, they were there to investigate that, positing that geography might have been a factor. I don't think it would be the only factor, given Laurie's baby, but then again, the MIT guys didn't say that either. We may never know the reason for the disappearances (and that's ok by me), but I think it's logical for the show to have people (be them from MIT or somewhere else) trying to figure out the mystery. It's what we humans do. It is why we study space, and do scientific research. Some theories become laws (gravity), others are never declared laws but the preponderance of evidence suggest they are true (evolution), some theories are proven false (the Earth is flat). That's how scientific research works.