WearyTraveler

I should further clarify that I didn't claim the word fuck was too modern, I claimed the dialogue, for some characters, was too modern. What I meant was the whole sentence construction, not just the one word. For example, Sand Snake number 2 telling Sand Snake number one "You're a really greedy bitch, you know that?". Or the entire conversation between the two Dothraki taking Dany to their Khal; that played more like a couple of misogynistic contemporary guys who've had too much to drink than two Dothraki warriors from the book. Also, I said that when a character that doesn't use foul language in the books does so on the show, it takes me out of the story. Jaimie is a good example of this. I don't think even his own inner monologue has foul language. Not until Tyrion tells him about Cersei sleeping with everybody, and even then, it's mostly just him recalling Tyrion's words.

But Dany is Targ+Targ, while Jon would be Targ+Stark. If magic is coming back to the world again, as several characters keep saying in the books, and I believe in the show, as well, Jon's Targ side could be getting stronger. I was the one who mentioned the language. I didn't mean to imply the show had never done it before, only that in this particular episode, the dialogue took me out of the story, as it has done in the past (which I didn't mention). It's even more jarring when they give this sort of dialogue to characters that don't speak like that in the books, like Jaimie. Book Tyrion does use crass language in his internal monologue, though not very much with others, particularly the highborn.

This is the way I hope it happens in the books and on the show. I think the books heavily point to R+L=J= Azor Ahai= Ice and Fire (the title of the series). And I feel Azor Ahai's rebirth has to be something huge, given the very real, scary threat that is the WW army just beyond the Wall.

Did that happen before the dragons were born? Because if it did, that could be a plausible explanation.

Maybe in the books when Dany slays the mummer's dragon (fAegon), she will take out all the Martells too. In the books, it seems we're headed to an Arienne / Aegon alliance with an Aegon that seemed to be more impetuous as he came out of hiding and got a taste of power. I doubt he'll bow to Dany and let her take what he thinks it's his kingdom. So, I can see Dany fighting her fake nephew and ending the Martell dynasty. fAegon's army will then be hers and she'll start her war on the usurpers from the south.

I'm getting a vision of Jon resurrecting from his own funeral pyre while Mel recites the prophesy from the books. He would be the only other character to avoid being burnt by fire, like Dany, hinting his Targ heritage, which will then be revealed via We had the same thought about Jon's resurrection, but he's not Dany's brother, he's Dany's nephew. Rhaegar, Jon's father, was Dany's eldest brother

As much as I really disliked the Dorne storyline, I don't think succession would be a problem. If, as Ellaria said, all of Dorne already despised Doran because he did nothing when Elia, her children and Oberyn were murdered; and considering that in Dorne the oldest child (male or female) gets to be the ruler of the house, then Oberyn's eldest daughter will be the next ruler and she's a Martell. In the show, Ellaria will probably be the woman behind the woman, but in terms of succession, there shouldn't be a problem there. I didn't like Jaimie and Cersei passionately vowing to take everything back, mainly because I really want to see the break between them that's in the books. I want Jaimie to see Cersei for who she truly is and start fighting on the "good" side. I also disliked the immature dialogue in Dorne, between the Dothraki guys taking Dany to their Khal and between Cersei and Jaimie (when Jaimie said fuck this and fuck that, to be precise). The world in the books is misogynistic, cruel and crass, but the characters never speak like that. It feels way too modern and takes me out of the scenes completely. Moving on to the better parts of the episode, I absolutely loved the scene of Brienne pledging her service to Sansa. The acting was top notch there. I'm okay with Sansa forgetting some of the words; she was always more interested in the fairytale aspect of the songs and the courtesies at court and how to be a proper lady. She probably didn't witness as many men bend the knee at her father's keep as Catelyn did. I'm hoping we'll see a more mature Sansa rallying the North against the Boltons and that she'll get to use all the cunning she supposedly learned from LF. Melisandre saying she had seen Jon in the fire fighting at Winterfell is surely the show's "subtle" foreshadowing of Jon's upcoming resurrection. I just hope that it doesn't involve any harm coming to Ghost. A Stark needs a direwolf, dammit! Speaking of Ghost, in the books he's silent and never howls, I can't remember if we have heard him howl in the show before. If not, that was a nice touch. Ghost howling broke my heart, as well as, his growling when Thorne came knocking. I hope Ghost gets to kill Thorne, rip his throat out. That'd be very satisfying to watch. He can also behead Ollie, while he's at it. A boy's head should be small enough to fit in his jaws. And Davos. Davos is made of win. Asking Thorne for food.... LMAO! That was awesome. Someone posited that Melisandre decided to die to bring Jon back to life. I hadn't considered that but the way she looked into the fire and then removed her glamour... Maybe. I don't think it will be that easy, though. She also saw herself walking the walls of Winterfell, so, I'm expecting something different for Jon's resurrection (and it better not involve anything bad happening to Ghost!)

I love Ghost and Davos! That is all for now!

Ok, so, I got an HBO feed and I'm sitting here waiting for the premiere while watching Beyoncé, wondering.... Why is she so angry? LOL! I can't wait for the episode to start.

At least you get to watch it at a decent hour and have some time to sleep before Monday. I'm in the UK and they are going to show it at the same time it airs in the US. The problem is, that'd be 2:00 am for me! So, we'll be done at 3:00 am, at which time, I will probably not be sleepy and come to the forums to discuss. Then it's up at 6:30 am to walk the dog before getting ready for work. Monday is going to be a horrible day! :-S

I think that was probably due to the fact that the Ironborn held Moat Cailin. Theon made that known to everyone in Winterfell, so going South wasn't an option.

Wonderful job, Avaleigh! I'm sorry I haven't been able to participate more this time around. I got a new job in another country and it's been hectic, hectic, hectic. I've been keeping up with the thread, though, and I appreciate very much your summaries and all the commentary from everyone else. Can someone post here when we start the next book? Last time I missed it.

I have no problem believing that book Stanis would burn Shireen, as much as it pains me. He did, after all, kill his own brother, and even though he seemed to be feeling guilty about that for a while, by the last book he barely gives Renly a passing thought. I think what might end up happening is that he's all set up to burn Asha (royal blood, because she's Balon's daughter) but she somehow escapes and he ends up having no other royal blood close at hand. Since Shireen is not with him in the books, I suspect he'll send a raven/fast rider authorizing Mel to do it as per a previous agreement we'll discover they had.

I think the scene where Varys gets the man who cut him from a box was probably supposed to set up his, let's say, darker nature.

I honestly think Javi is actually one of the ones who gets it. His wife, Sara Baker Grillo, co-produced a TV show called Her Story, which (from its IMDB page) "Looks inside the dating lives of trans & queer women as they navigate the intersections of desire and identity" and he discussed it at length on his FB page, talking about how under-represented the LGBT community is on TV and how little shows like this one help. IIRC, he was the first one to apologize too, answering the angered and hurt fans, while Rothenberg was nowhere to be found. I have followed Javi since Lost and I think he's one of the good ones.

Javi is the best.

There was a reference in an earlier chapter in Harrenhal about ravens flying in and out all the time, and I can't help but think that Tywin already had some sot of deal with Roose before he finally decided to leave Harrenhal. I know there was a line on the show given to Tywin who said that wars can be won by words, or something like that. In this chapter we get Roose making himself a wolfskin blanket and that just makes me a bit more sure that Roose was in Tywin's pocket way before the Red Wedding was even planned.

From the article: " "The Red Woman" of the episode’s title, the mystical Melisandre – who was left at Castle Black along with Jon Snow’s corpse as season five closed – in no way dominates the action, but by the hour’s end, with a luridly surprising twist, sets the scene for some powerful sorcery to come." This is exciting and frightening at the same time!!

That scene was awesome! If something happens to , though, I'd be devastated!

Joe was definitely very pale, but the boy had a body on him! Wow! In that shot from above he actually looked like one of the Greek marble statues in The Met. I didn't think his romance with Jenny was a powder keg, but I liked the guy and the fact that he was a connection to Corbin. Too bad he had to go. I too have wondered what THO's plan is after he destroys humanity. Is he going to create another race altogether or will he be content by having any of the other non-human species worshipping him? I'm not a shipper, never have been, don't think I'll ever be, and even I can see how bad the non Ichabbie pairings are. Also, NR is such a bad, bad actress that I find myself almost hating every scene she's in (or laughing at how bad they are). Honestly, I wish shipping didn't exist, or that, at the very least, showrunners didn't care about it so much. When they make the shipping relationships a high priority in the writing, the rest of the stories and plots suffer. Logically, when people are in a race to stop the end of the world, they would not be thinking about having a weekend smooch at the lake house, or how sad they are about their loss of a friend; they'd be scared, they might even say an "I love you" in case they don't see the other person again, but they'd be running and desperate to get their stuff done, so that the world continues to exist. In this instance, the story suffered because TPTB thought the audience needed to see some romantic scenes (be them about the couple they liked, or obstacles to the OTP). Blergh! As someone posted above, just get Ichabod and Abbie together and get on with it. Also, I don't believe in the Moonlighting curse. At least not completely. I think it's true that part of the excitement of the audience is on the anticipation of seeing a couple together. But once that happens, it's up to the writers to keep them interesting. Part of the problem is that writers, apparently, don't know how to write a couple together. It's not impossible to do, you know? There are many shows that have couples that are together and they seem to work just fine. This whole thing is just stupid. In addition, I think writers nowadays need to get on with the times. What used to work for audiences in the past doesn't work now. We have seen these things so many times before that it's not thrilling anymore. Just write a good story and tell it. Stop trying to write for maximum audience returns by trying to keep so many plot balls in the air. Commit to a path and follow through. Most audiences would think it refreshing and tune in, IMO.

In light of the latest episode and what happened to Wu, I'm going to go with two possible guesses for the character who dies: 1) Wu, shot by Nick or Hank, when he turns into a wolf / lycanthrope and tries to attack them. 2) Hank, attacked by Wu after he transforms No matter what, they said on the episode that the full moon would last three nights: night one was the night of the car crash, night two was the night they killed the lycanthrope, and night three is the night we see Wu having nightmares, unless we are supposed to think this also happened during night 2. So, they can potentially drag this out for a few episodes until the full moon is supposed to rise again.

LMAO!!!!

Does anyone else think that horn will come into play at some point later? It's found with the dragon glass weapons, so it must be important. Also, we keep reading about it in future chapters, almost every time Sam speaks about the dragon glass, the horn is mentioned. It gives me a Chekhov's gun feeling. It shows up early; it's stored with life-saving, critical tools; it's put there by a friend / member of the Watch; and we're regularly reminded of its existence in future chapters. Also, I can't help but think that since everyone in the story dismisses it as just another horn, it will turn out to be important.

Non book reader here, for those that want to keep track of how some of us view the show. Overall, I like it, and have liked it from the beginning, but there are a few areas where I think it can improve. I don't dwell much on the technical aspects (lighting, sound, etc.) because those are easy fixes and usually get better with time. I do think the producers / writers need to make some substantial changes in pacing and character development. At times the show felt rushed and at other times painfully slow, so, I'm hoping that next season we have a more even pacing with suspense building steadily to the reveals. Regarding character development, I would have liked to have spent a little more time with the characters at the beginning and to learn what made them tick from the characters themselves, and not through a third person talking about the character (for example, Holden's mom explaining his hero complex, instead of Holden himself having a flashback or a conversation with someone where we can see where his motivation comes from). My guess is that the way the show did it allowed them to keep the characters tense with each other because no one knows anyone else that well, but I don't think the payoff was worth it. At least not between the members of the groups that are together; for example, the Rocinante crew. I don't believe for a second that Holden would shoot Amos, or that Amos would not have Naomi's back, so there was no tension there, for me. They could have had deeper character moments with each other which would go a long way in helping me form attachments to our heroes. Hopefully, now that the characters have been established, we'll have more of those characters moments in season 2. This episode, I was happy to confirm that one of my guesses as to who was behind this thing was correct (I guessed a few episodes ago that it would be either another alien race or a business). Next season I'm interested in seeing the UN ambassador's political intrigue plays and getting together (or at least having some sort of communication/contact) with the Roci crew (+Miller), so that they can complete the puzzle and start fighting this thing. I actually wish they had ended the season with something along these lines, because that's obviously (to me) where the story is headed: can't fight the bad guys if you don't know who you're fighting and what. Once I know where a story is headed, I just want them to get on with it. No more Holden and team narrowly escaping death every week, please. They are not likely to die, so, there's not a lot of suspense there anymore. Let's see our guys going after Dr. Candle (Lost reference: the actor playing Julie's dad) and trying to get him and save everyone from the malevolent, seemingly evolving to sentient beings spores (that was terrifying, BTW).

I think Jon chapters are my favorite chapters of all. I like Jon's evolution in the series. Here we see his prejudices and the stereotypes he carries around with him product of his upbringing in Winterfell, and yet we also see that he is open minded enough to consider alternative view points, and we also see how some of his character traits are so ingrained they will never change completely. He can see there's nothing he can do for Gilly or any of the other Craster victims, yet he doesn't feel good about it. Out of the Stark children, I think Jon is the one that evolves the fastest, the most flexible and the one more open to new ideas and to change. I love him for that.