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That's exactly it and it's not like Dylan isn't use to paying: rent, utilities, gas for his car. Yeah, Haley has had everything handed her living with her parents, but she still has had to buy: food, gas for her car, uber, ect. Yet they continue to act like they are 17.

I also have a special place for You've Got Mail, my cousin was in it, but I have poked fun of it for years myself. Especially, why the hell Tom Hanks character had to move out of his apartment while his ex-girlfriend apparently got the place all to herself. At least Fox Sr makes sense, he is waiting for his cheating girlfriend to get her stuff and move out of the mansion and he just wanted to save money than going to a hotel for several weeks. Back to the show, yes, I mean at this point, how Jessica hasn't been divorced by Lewis, or grandmother hasn't killed her by now makes no sense. Plus, at this point you think Evan would be: "I don't want to be like you mom, because one day I will be alone and everyone will want to run me over with their car."

Plus also to clarify from Reba. It was in the last season that Van got his real estate license because Sheyanne was pregnant again and Van needed to start working a career that made good money. However, Reba even told him why he didn't use the basement instead of the garage. Of course, Van was played to be hit in the head too many times with a football or didn't think minor things through like the garage door going up. He knew how to write out bills, save money, even build things. Dylan can't string numbers, looks at his phone battery dying when he is driving on the road and is told one address and then goes to the house next door. How he can be a nurse or get into nursing school is really, really unbelievable. Sheyanne on Reba was the pretty blonde, but she was a good student, new how to balance a paycheck, actually wanted to be a dentist like her father. She just jumped to decisions without thinking. Haley... where do you want me to begin? It's like with Pam, she brings nothing to the show, at least with Cal with Cam and Mitch that did make sense, since that was talked about for a years about them having a baby boy. In a way it wasn't too bad, but then when they turned it into: "Lilly can appear when we FEEL like it!" That is why kids start becoming problems on TV shows. They don't know what to do with them as writers, they can't find kids that are really that good at acting. Plus, they do it because: "We don't know anything else to do." So they think throwing in new characters like Pam, twin babies, ect will revitalize the show... but it's not. Similar to the problem that happened over in Black-ish, they brought in Baby Demonte because the original creator decided to use his own experience of having a baby later in life after his own kids were almost out of the house. However, they ignore the baby most of the time and when they do use the baby, they come across looking like idiots. Because they didn't know what to do with Bow's character for the season and it backfired on them.

That's how the Middle differed in marriage on TV. Mike wasn't afraid, he didn't do smart things himself or really was so intreverted, he hated how people made a bid deal about things or called things "stupid" even though he did some very stupid things that he got called on too. However, Mike and Frankie felt like a normal married couple. Phil comes off looking like he has no word on anything and Claire still doesn't get her over controlling and helicoptering parenting is what lead to the disaster that is Haley and Dylan. Jay has gotten to the point of why does he ever bother to try and do anything "fun" for himself. Gloria tries to get her way and doesn't see that Manny is going to end up like Haley at his rate. As for Cam, he is so bent on forgiving his family for all the bullshit they do daily or have done. Yet if Mitch has any free will, he is guilt ed or told he is a fraud by Cam it has become almost abusive. Of course how Pam hasn't gotten herself killed at this point in time doesn't many any sense either.

The new showrunners really didn't know what they were doing outside of: "We can't have Rick and Kate together, because marriage ruins TV series." in their heads. Also, they kept acting like they had to pick up this: "We have to clean up dangling plotlines that never made sense, because were are SOOPER Awesome!" It didn't work.

Yes, Jessica is just such a hateful character, I'm surprised someone hasn't hired a sniper to take her off. Plus, not only is the favoritism of Evan goes over the job. Evan also does things that he knows everyone won't blame him for and then feels bad later when he gets caught. Yet, just like Jessica he goes right back to doing it again and knowing one of his brother's or his dad will get the blame for it.

Seeing both the Habitat for Humanity and Anniversary Tool Time Show. You think that Tim was dyslexic at times. Everyone saying: "Tim gave me the wrong directions." These famous guys who came on the show weren't notified where and when this was happen? They didn't talk to an HR or PR person? They act like Tim did everything when it came to Tool Time and yet, Tim was not an executive producer or anything. So, really, Tim wouldn't be in charge or anything. Yet, it seems that both Tim and Al decided on what the show was about as the show went on, they all acted like it was the producers, John Binford, Bud or someone else who decided what Tim and Al were allowed to do with Tool Time. For a series that was about a fictional TV show and mocking home improvement TV series at the time. The writers acted like they never could decide what they wanted to do. Was Tim the star of a show and got to do what he wanted? Or was he TOLD what he had to do? Never made sense and at times, Tim could build things great and the other time he couldn't tell his right from his left.

Oh that's my thoughts too. Being a teacher and my wife and I's own raising, it's pretty common. Hell, I have neighbors where that happened. We have one where her parents were very strict and then she let her three kids run around and do whatever after her divorce. While her daughters learned to be self sufficient, the oldest went to college. The youngest (little brother) did stupid stuff from almost getting hit by cars playing in the street to telling teachers they didn't matter. Now, he is in his mid teens and is tired of "getting into" trouble. When his mom bailed him out all of the time and now she is tired of doing it and he keeps going: "I'm tired of going to the principal's office." They tell him: "Well, how about you stop doing stupid stuff you know you are getting in trouble for?" That's what you get with Haley, Alex and Luke. Claire has to just be in charge of things (why the hell she didn't figure a way to get Haley into at least Community College, who knows). Phil's father, while goofy himself and at times aloof, wasn't trying to get his son's best friend, which Phil did do (of course Phil tries to be everyone's friend). Jay just saw the world a specific way and had a dad that really avoiding trying to show that he was "loving". So, Claire became a control freak and Phil became trying to be the "cool dad". As for Mitch... I put the blame on Dede. She was so crazy and so forth and Mitch tried to not be like her, but look what he turned into.

I see it as all 3. They would not be the first show on ABC or other networks that care more about a character they feel is "awesome" or will be genius writing. Basically ignoring actual feedback from their audience or critics. There is one thing where they go: "I will make everyone love this character if it kills me." to: "they are awesome, don't you get my amazing vision!"

Oh yes, the Taylors were a very blue collar family. Even with Tool Time, Tim and Al never crossed over to White Collar.

Right and Cam and Mitch have always had a better relationship with Dylan than Claire or Phil. IT would have made sense, and not completely once again show that Claire is going to hover around Haley and Dylan as much as she can. Pretty much saying: "Well, Alex is gone, Luke wants to get away, so Claire needs an excuse to still be controlling." The one thing I did like that Jay talked about how he felt when Phil and Claire got pregnant with Haley. It was a better mirror, but really Jay needed to throw in: "You actually knew how to tie your shoes unlike how the hell Dylan ever got into Nursing school in California." I also just find it odd that Jay doesn't know how to make some of Gloria's dishes by now. He knows how to cook, even knows some of Gloria's basic recipes, so this was too much. Plus, Jay knows Google Mini, but doesn't recognize an Amazon Echo? That didn't make sense when last season and the last three seasons before that, Jay knew how to use Siri and Google Home. Yet, he didn't understand "double tap" on his iPad. I hate when they do that with a person to be one minute able to understand new tech and then the next be: "Why is the coffee grinder talking to me?" That is lazy writing just to do an "he's old joke."

Oh I know, it's to beat us over the head that Haley is freaking out and Dylan can't add 1 +1 together. Yet he can properly read a sonogram or understand the right amount of ounces in a syringe to give to a patient. Even Haley going: "It has two hearts, I knew I shouldn't have eaten the brownie!" Umm... what? Seriously, she loses it thinking she has some mutant and both Claire and Dylan are shocked, but get it means twins. Yes, when they showed the apartment or the cliche of: "I live in a garage and I have everything nailed down to the front door to open it, won't that be funny!" Mrs. Readster even said: "But Phil is a realtor and they both have good jobs and make money and barely have any loans!" It's not only lazy it's the classic: "Now take your stupid pills everyone and forget reality!"

Yeah, no kidding, I know there are fans of Dylan on here, but really, the guy being able to get into nursing school and is of course is now in his internship hours is just suppose to be hand waved. This was a guy who kept moving two steps at a ranch repeating he had never been this far from home REPEATEDLY and everyone including Haley were: "ok, that's enough!" and he still did it. Dylan has not changed at all, he is still a person who would constantly walk into a glass plate window and still not get that it's a window. It isn't funny. Same goes for Pam Pam has been nothing but a bullying bitch to both Mitch and Cam from attacking them, to stealing, to manipulating them. Yet, Can is suppose to just forget all that because: "It's my sister and I need to save the farm after dad dies!" Oh stop! I mean, Mitch could have simply called the police and had her arrested for taking over the upstairs apartment at the duplex and that would break her parole. However, oh no, we have to have her around because the TPTB apparently can't part with the character or ABC was stupid enough to sign her to a certain amount of episodes and can't break the contract or have to pay her out. Another thing is, she is not a good actress either, so why must we suffer like Mitch. I can see that Lilly still doesn't care about anything, so why should we?

Truth on all of that. I even found Mark and Elizabeth's early days with Ella well done. You had the experience parent, Mark. The new, tired money dealing with being a parent with Elizebeth. It's when everything they did with Rachel that just got more and more contrived, including Mark's ex-wife, because of course she turned into a workaholic and basically told Rachel: "Be good, I have a big case!" Abby's character seriously was destroyed when they broke her and Carter up for the last time. She became a pit of despair that everyone was sick of. Plus, don't get me started on her ex-husband.

Yes, there was no viable reason why they were getting audited. I'm sorry, the IRS just doesn't audit you for the hell of it. Jill up to that point hadn't worked in 5 years, Brad was the only one of the boys who had a job and would have to file taxes for that. Tim was still buying things for improvements on the house or Binford was giving Tim and even Al free stuff all the time. They didn't even own the rental property yet and they were paying for Jill's schooling out of pocket. So, umm.. why would they be auditing the Taylor Family? Sadly, we put more thought into this than the writers did 20 years ago.

See that's the thing, you really have to wonder why? Haley still comes across as to thinking everything was going to be straight handed to her. When Clare brought up how Haley got "kicked out of college" or the fact that Phil has yelled at her FOUR times about that. Yet, Haley is still: "Whatever, I'll be famous one day!" Umm... 25 not 18 anymore. When they had Dylan going over all his jobs to where he is now. I just rolled my eyes along with Mrs. Readster. Yes, there is having various odd jobs to get to your career. Then there is Dylan, a complete, dumb ass who even Forrest Gump would go: "You are a dumbass!" I've said my pieces with Pam, even her final line: "You're Small!" I wanted Mitch to pull a gun and shoot her.

Well, it technically happen, since everyone is set up the way that original pilot went. Just now, Lainey in the star of the show, but it did work as we have John in his supporting role instead of lead of the show. Lainey is the new teacher, who as we saw, mirrors Coach very well. I have to say, I loved Coach talking about going to the more modern shorts and how everyone was like: "You look weird coach." "I feel weird!" Never change Coach Rich.

They have now thrown every TV cliche at Haley, I'm sure we will get the "wacky" delivery too. Stuck in a car/elevator/little brother helping. Really, what pictures does the actress that plays Pam have on the show? Why do they keep throwing her out and then bringing her back and reminding us more and more that someone would have ran her over with a truck and then put a bomb on her and made sure there was a corener declaring her dead. She is seriously the worst character ever to grace the series and that is saying a lot given the drama queen Cam is or all of Gloria's horrible relatives combine. I will say one thing that Jay is right about, Manny has ended up with someone like his mother. Sure she can tell Jay that Gloria has been bossing him around and she is "always" going to have a problem. However, even though she doesn't see it, she does it to Manny because really, I don't care how much of theatre you love or do. If back in college someone made me wear that I look at her and go: "You are out of your mind!" I am so happy that Phil went off saying how he really does hate the entire situation and now gets where Jay was coming from over 25 years ago. However, I'm sorry writers, you can do whatever you want, but Dylan is not a mirror to Phil. No, Phil is unaware at times, but Dylan acts like he is going to need a special aid after he turns 40.

It was a good episode. All plots worked and I do like Bow's win and even Ruby showing that Bow doesn't need to worry about people like that. They are going to find something wrong, no matter what you do. It was refreshing because up to last season, I was surprised Bow hadn't filed a grievance or something, because as bad as Dre's office is. The hospital Rainbow works at is just as bad. I did like that Junior called Dre on things about forcing his kids to dislike something because he dislikes it. Sad to say, that is very common, where a spouse or relative just doesn't like something and then not only makes it that they have to let everyone know that, but also put it out that means they can't enjoy it either.

Yes, especially with 3 boys and Tim writing off expenses for the house, plus improvements over the years. They should have had a major system in place. Even with Jill's college, they could have written off things too. I know when the episode aired, Turbo Tax was just starting to come out in disk form. However, they go around having this half-assed system and act like: "We are being audited just for the hell of it. Um... why were they being audited? Yes, I never thought of that, why couldn't she. Plus, she could have brought her homework with her and be able to work on the papers during quiet hours.

Truth, even though Manny in real life is at college too, when he shows up, it's like: "Umm... what do we do with him?" With Luke, they did more with him last season with working and realizing he needs to get a degree to have a life. However, he's been just there acting like he wishes he was still in high school. Joe's stories make sense, but with Haley, I feel they are throwing every unplanned pregnant girl chiche they can think of.

So, they are trying to pull a Cheers for a final 11 year run? Seriously though what are they going to do? Of course them saying they don't have a final episode count. Means one of two things. They are going to do just half a season and burn it all off or cut it short by an episode or two to do one BIG finale.

I was just watching where Jill and Tim get audited. I really want to understand what would trigger and audit for them? Tim at that time had almost 20 years in with Binford. Jill hadn't worked in almost five years and was going to college full time. Brad would have had to file taxes since he was now working, but they didn't have the hardware store yet and weren't invested in the rental house. You think with all Jill's worry about money, she would have worried about an audit, yet she and Tim both act surprised when they get audited. Plus, Tim keeps a pretty bad system.

The show is back after break. Seems not much has changed, I don't get why Ryan and Mike feel they "have to" take swipes at each other. I like that Ryan explains why he wants Mike to have a relationship with Boyd. Plus, admitting that Mike knows more about things like cars, fishing trips, ect than him. Especially, since Ryan doesn't even "try" to do things. I mean, for apparently being so well off, he couldn't afford to take his car into the shop? He couldn't go to Mike and say: "Hey you know Jay Leno who is an auto-mechanic, can he figure out why the check engine light is always coming on?" They want to write it that Ryan has learned to be a better person and dad, yet he can't get a clue on handling things. Even his entire idea behind the rug is: "Yeah, we get it, Ryan is a hippy, they all sew rugs." Yet, even he admits that Boyd needs to learn how to fix cars, go on big fishing trips. Instead of working it out with Mike, he decides to do things he knows is useless because he wants to show "he is not his father" eventually you have to move on.

Here are in the new forum.