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Yeah, I wasn't happy with it, especially after Phoebe found out and it was still: "Don't tell Ross." At that moment I wanted to go: "Just move on, already!"

Yeah, if they would have talked about that aspect of TJ more, it would have made sense. I know how to do many carpentry projects, but don't expect me to turn a duplex into a two story house. All they had to do was have it where TJ wanted to try to do better, but wasn't good at bigger projects. Even him saying: "I really wish I could do this, I can build a booth or fix a broken step, but try to put together a whole new wall or room. I don't have a prayer."

Just believe they both screwed up. Ross finally expressed his real reasons in the final few episodes when Mark showed back up and offered Rachel the job in Paris. Ross saying what he had always felt and then Chandler saying: "Is this 8 years ago? My time machine works!" Ross just should have not hooked up with the other woman at all. He was in a bad place and if Ross hadn't been such a moron in her office that day and instead had the conversation with Rachel after work. Then it would have came off better. Instead, they just both come off as morons and in my opinion what started the major decline of both of their characters. Rachel going from getting her footing in the world after walking out on her wedding in season 1 and Ross finally having an relationship and a functioning one with the girl of his dreams. Then they just couldn't make it work.

Much like other TV characters who had annoying or toxic traits, Marie fell into the same troupe where the writers decided to just keep writing those capital toxic traits because they 1) thought it was funny or 2) had ran out of ideas. Very prompt in my TV shows over the years even going as far Archie Bunker to current in Big Bang Theory. All of a sudden, these traits have to be front and center because other wise the writers would have to you know, actually focus on writing more enriching character evolution when it gets into: "The best characters change." Of course then it turns into: "Now you will hate these characters to death."

Even better how it was Dole's suggestions why Rory wrote such a horrible review of the play to begin with. Then add in the fact that if someone was that bad at a Yale dance show. She would never have made it that far to begin with. Especially at the end when you saw people reacting to a disaster of a dance show. Showing once again AS-P didn't know just how competitive theatre is in Ivy League schools or how someone that was apparently unable to keep her footing would never had been admitted to the program to being with. Sorry, I'm doing this from someone who has an undergraduate in theatre. I know how those directors from professors to graduate students crack out the whips to be good. If not, there is the door.

I agree, why I didn't like TJ, they made him too stupid and then he always had to be a main foil for Luke. Like AS-P wanted Luke to have his own Sookie and went about extremely wrong. Problem with Kirk was when they upped his antics to the extreme. Him being the guy in town working 1 millions jobs is funny to a point. However, when he is magically getting his real state license. Somehow studying and training to be a mail carrier and him even saying how hard the test was. Magically having over 200K in savings, 13 brothers and sisters and yet we never see them or the fact he can't get out of his mother's house. Who was basically trying to kick him out of the house since day 1. Being the lead role in a children's musical where the next oldest "kid" is 10 years old be because his girlfriend was the stage manager. I mean, that was going way to far and I remember that Sean Gunn said he was getting hate mail because they said to the show runners to dial back Kirk to maybe a 2 minute appearance and didn't know why. I wanted to go: "Because not Kirk has become a crutch for writing on the show." Need an extra 5 minutes to fill in a script? Use Kirk or to an extent Taylor or TJ. Need something stupid make somewhat sense? Use Kirk, Taylor or TJ and make everyone else act stupid.

Keep in mind when Richard said he wanted to Google Emily and she thought it was something dirty. Emily was depicted as either being oblivious to modern items or so diverse in items it put others to shame. It was classic: "write the character fit the plot even if it doesn't make sense."

Especially at that time, you know how much that house would have been worth?

Oh I agree and I knew a town like that and eventually people who they treated like that either moved out or the townies who started it died. In fact, I find that the most realistic portray of Stars Hollow, they sadly were that cliche town that made snap judgments or had very narrow views of things. However, it got to the point that they were complete morons from how they let Taylor run the town to their 101 various festivals that would have bankrupted other small towns.

Yeah, it was just like on Home Improvement. How many times did Tim and the boys hate Jill's cooking, even said it to her face, other people said it was horrible. They went even as far as Jill admitting she got it from her father because he was a horrible cook. Yet, many times she used a recipe book and everyone loved her cooking. So, why didn't she just do that and break the circle? Here with Debra it was the same old thing, even the way the kids starting going: "Oh God, mom is still cooking!" So, Debra can make something complicated like braciole that everyone is amazed by. Made lemon chicken great, which is pretty simple. Yet, she would make mac and cheese and everyone went: "What the hell is this?" This didn't clue her in that her food sucked. Plus, when she found out that Ray had told people at work how bad her food was, she got pissed off at him then? It wasn't like it was a big secret? I also doubt that Marie sabotaged all of Debra's spices and ingredients even with her being able to enter and exit the house as she pleased. Making all of Debra's food horrible. So, then how could she never had problems with braciole, lemon chicken and I believe one time she made a chocolate cake that Robert just loved. If Marie was so ingenious with changing labels and so forth, how did she miss those?

Yep, and that was another reason I hated Chris right there. Lorelei kissing him was the greatest day of his life. Not the birth of either of his daughters, not getting his shit together. Lorelei kissing him. Right there I went: "And that's why you are a horrible person. You chose over the fantasy of Lorelei instead of what was best for everyone." He was truly selfish.

I completely agree, just like how his parents thought his life went to hell because of Lorelai and Rory instead of actually showing that they weren't and even going to the point where we saw some flashbacks of that stuff happening in his life and why Straub and Francine could never see that their little boy really didn't know what to do. Instead of giving him advice or even saying things were his fault, it was constantly: "Its someone else's fault." Same with how Chris had to be used as a plot device with Emily and Richard about the little happy family. Emily kept going down to: "You have good genes and family, so I'll excuse all your other dumbass ideas and past just so my daughter doesn't marry a diner owner." Or Richard's: "I wanted to kill him, but I had a plan and you decided it wasn't good enough." Instead of: "We gave him plenty of oppurtunities and he kept screw them up, if that was how he wanted to do things, then forget him." It was like how many people get a douche father or mother a free pass because: "It's the baby daddy/momma." As the old saying goes: "Anyone can make a baby, but it takes a person putting their kid first to be a parent." Lorelai did that, Chris took over 16 years and even then, he still was bad at it in a very stupid way instead of a: "Well, it wasn't like you tried."

I do remember in an interview in the final season and the producers were asked if Amy was still working in which they did confirm it. They said there was no reason for Amy to be a stay at home wife since her and Robert didn't have kids and even at the time, there was no plans of changing that either. They just didn't see it that important to their stories to talk about her job on a regular basis. Which of course was odd as you would think that both Robert and Amy could have gotten out of Marie and Frank's house to at least get a new apartment a few months after everything went down with the retirement home. However, they acted like Frank and Marie kept the 11K for the house and were like: "You'll live with us and that's final."

I agree too and even if Emily and Richard to a point would have admitted it instead of how much they wanted to keep this fantasy of the happy little family alive all these years when really, no one held Christopher accountable for anything. It was always Lorelai's fault and later Straub and Francine put the blame on Rory. When she had no choice it was the classic: "Sorry I was born and ruined your life." It painted the Haydens, especially as Straub as: "Bah... it's all Lorelai's fault. She seduced our son in having sex!" Yeah, because it doesn't take two to make a baby and the fact they were DATING! Because after all, everyone was nice and quant during their days of courting/dating and NEVER was sex ever brought up.

I agree and I was very happy with Frank speaking up on that and I actually didn't have a problem with Ray at first not saying anything about it. I mean, it was his daughter and Marie's grand daughter. He probably at first thought: "Let grandma give you some pointers." It was when Marie went on and on that Ray failed as a dad not saying: "It's my daughter, mom!" "Let her be!" It was shocking that Marie had to be so critical of both Debra and then later her own grand daughter. She was so on about Amy being "the golden girl" then at the wedding and from then on, she was just as critical on Amy, not as much but the last couple of seasons, she was starting to do the same with Amy, but she didn't criticize her cooking. Marie was very mean at anyone who dared to threaten her place as Ray's mom and to a much lesser extent, Robert.

I do remember at one point that many people questioned about Debra still being a stay at home mom when the kids were way out of the house and even starting to do after school activities. The writers did one episode where she tried to go back to work, but that she was demanding and bitchy about things not being done her way. When she hadn't worked it almost seven years and while Marie did defend Debra, it later went on that if Debra thought about having life outside of the family, it was the worst thing in the world. Even when Debra made a big deal about Ray just playing around at work and not wanting to be home with the family. Even then, it was along the lines of she acted like he could just write one article or news piece in 10 minutes and then expected him to pick up the kids, clean the house, ect. I think the most realistic portrayal was when Michael didn't want to go to school because he was embarrassed about calling his teacher "mommy" and Ray had to work at home while Debra was getting things together for a school function. Ray did his job in his office, talked to Michael and even played Nintendo later on. Both earlier and later season's Ray would have never even done that. Remember, he had to whine how things were not the way he wanted it and that he loved going golfing more and taping football games over wedding tapes. Many times, I do wish they would have had Debra going back to work and adjusting to her kids older and how she had it pretty good instead of Marie constantly bitching about how Debra didn't know how to be a mom or cook.

Right, I don't care how you look at it, no way would have Jess missed 31 days and not one way or another had been either called into the principal's office or Luke would have been notified. I do remember in the movie Coach Carter when one teacher said one of the team members either showed up in class or not but had never been reported to Samuel L Jackson's character's surprised. In real life, it was said by the actually Coach Carter, that he was called in because the player had been skipping class up to 4 days with no excuses. Funny how Hollywood thinks with kids skipping class: "They are just left to free roam, but hey try to buy tickets for prom and you are reported by your classmates in a second."

Oh I remember that, in fact, it was like Debra couldn't even shop anymore. The sandwich was made out of stale bread and the lettuce apparently had started to brown. It be one thing if she said she saw it half off and didn't think twice about buying it, but it was like Debra was blind about what to buy her family decent groceries either. I also remember one point early on that Robert mentioned he was going to make a cake and from the cabinet. I was like: "A box of cake mix?" "In Marie's house?" "Never!"

Let's not forget where even the kids said she couldn't make Mac and Cheese. They should have just kept it that Debra could cook various items like: Chicken, Fish, Soup, Italian dishes and maybe a few odds and ends, but then failed else where. It was like Jill on Home Improvement that showed that her problem was when she didn't follow the recipe, it taste like crap. Yet, when she did, it was always good. Yet, it was funny to have a bad cook.

Completely agree. I hate the "its your kid's mom" card that is played on TV constantly when really, Ross had every right to not be involved and even just smile at some point later on after the had gotten married and gone: "I hope you are happy." Done. Nothing more, nothing less, I didn't see my mom having to go to my father's second wedding just because I was there. Same with him not being there when my mother got remarried. When everything is said and done, I really did not like Carol and Susan, the less I ever saw of them, the better.

I have to agree, I remember that well and I completely got Debra's POV big time and why everything is crazy. I think the problem is, she acknowledged all of this but still fell into some horrible ways she thought of things. I can think of Ally being the bully on the bus, her thinking Ray just liked going to work to avoid being with his family, having this constant reasoning to just make his mother happy (my wife is like that with her dad and he has had some warped views), ect. It was by the last two years of the show, I just couldn't like anyone, I think Family Guy did it perfectly with their parody of the show: "After 9 years, I just don't care anymore!" "Maybe it be less if you didn't act like a bitch all the time the last few years."

If Ray wouldn't been like that, I would have swung more to Debra's side, but sadly, she also screwed up. She just had to fix that curl, she couldn't just come down and tell Ray what happen. Not like the curling iron was glued to the wall and so the way the episode ended, I wanted to smack Debra when she laughed with: "I screwed up, but I still win!"

Also add in the fact that the video was right there where Debra is being walked down the aisle. While they had started the tape at the beginning, someone would have had played the VHS earlier and then just stopped it right there and then put it back in the holder and put away. Leaving Ray to start recording it right at that exact moment instead of at the very beginning. Then why did it just stop taping? Did by some magic that the VHS did have the tab removed, but yet allowed it to be recorded for a brief couple of minutes and then stop? Did the power go out in the wall outlet? Did someone accidentally hit STOP on the VCR or remote? The more you go the more this episode is picked apart. Which really shows how bad the episode was written if you can pull the kick off to the plot so easily and keep going on and on instead of: "Well, they forgot they had the said item and then made a big deal about it." Instead of ABCDEF needing to happening, but still leaving GHIJK unexplained to make things work.

Yeah, that's what I think it all boils down to. Ray just didn't think and grabbed the first tape he saw because of how the game was going. What still is strange is that he stopped taping just before the game when there was only a few seconds remaining. No matter how you look at it, too much logic is thrown out the window to make the story work. 1. The wedding tape would have had its tab removed to keep from being recorded over. 2. Ray being the sports fan he is and made a career around it would have either been recording the game to begin with or had ones ready to go. 3. The wedding tape was with regular VHS instead of put away or with movie VHS. 4. Ray would be that oblivious. It ranks up there with the entire container that Deb forgot she still had from Marie and then threw it out to avoid being told off by Marie and the boys just happened to dig it out of the bottom of the garbage can and play kick the can with it. Because I know so many almost 4 year old twins who would be able to do that and without anyone watching them. When all Debra had to do was go: "Marie, you were right I found it, but it was taken with some other items to the basement and I didn't know it was there, but here you go." "Why it was such a matter of life and death for you to have it back, I don't know, but here it is." She wanted to avoid Marie being right about it and then her first idea was to throw it out in the trash was extremely dumb. Then again, a very stupid moment that ranks up there with: "Seriously?" Was the plot around the suitcase, I'm sorry, many think its a great episode, but to the fact it had been there so many days and that Debra deliberately took something out to wash and then wear all in attempt for Ray to take the damn thing upstairs. Was too much and then how it ended. It made both of them look like serious mental cases.

I hated DAR Rory, it was so.... not Rory. I mean the way it was portrayed, and written, it was just as bad of a story next to adulter Rory and "I was told I didn't haven it, I'm dropping out of school! Wahhhhh!" I won't even go back into the entire Rory drives up to Lorelai and hugs her like something out of a bad chick flick movie for the: "I'm so sorry, mom." I don't want to see any bit of that type of Rory at all. I'm hoping that both Alexis Blendel and AS-P play the older, 9 years later Rory much more grounded and has a clue now.