Miss Scarlet

Both her and Hali gave Rodney a lot of props in their exit interviews, so I don't think she was messing around with people or she was drunk. I think she meant it. And even though I hate Rodney, everyone played a pretty bad game this season, but he played a slightly less horrible one. He was surprisingly skilled (ugh, I hate myself for even typing that) at forming the big alliance and keeping them together by intentionally vilifying Mike. As for Mike, I could do without the religious speechifying. I mean, I'm sure it goes over well with most of Survivor's core audience, but I don't care for it. And just saying "it was God's doing" isn't a very satisfying or descriptive answer to questions about why someone won. In terms of him as a winner, I don't think he's a great one. I really don't get this cascade of "the right person won!" and "he played an amazing game!". I get that people like an underdog, but he put himself in the underdog position with poor gameplay. And my opinion has always been that if you have to rely on winning multiple immunity challenges to win the game because your social and strategic games are poor then you are not a good Survivor player. You may be a good athlete or good at puzzles, but you're not good at the game. It's the same reason why I could never get behind Ozzy being a good player. And yes, I get that a Mike win is more palatable to people than a Dan, Will or Rodney win because he's not as offensive, but I think people are conflating "inoffensive/nice person" and "underdog" with "good winner". There have been a lot of contestants that I disliked who won the game, but the fact that they were unlikeable to me didn't mean that they weren't the "best winner" or "the right person" because they did actually play the best game. And frankly, I don't get the Mike love anyway and the white knighting of him. As many other posters have mentioned, Mike is only likeable next the Rodney, Will and Dan. He said some very sexist things that are extremely problematic. I think that when people look back in a few years at this season and have forgotten about how awful Mike's competition was, they'll see that Mike really wasn't that great either. Maybe I'm off-base here since I haven't been watching the last few episodes and have only been reading about them online, but I do think Carolyn played just as good a game as Mike's. And I think that even though I don't like her and, more importantly, she got a pretty crappy edit. Imagine if she got the amount of screentime that Mike got. We would have really seen her game and she would probably look even more worthy. I think she was hampered by the fact that it's just harder for women (especially older women) to win this game and by the fact you had a jury where half of them were crazy misogynists and the other half decided they didn't like her because she flipped on them after the merge. It's the same reason they didn't like Kelly and decided to take her out with Jenn's idol. Hali confirmed in interviews that this wasn't a strategic decision. It was emotional and I think it was the same thing with Carolyn. And I have to say that this bothers me a lot because you have a season where people are so indignant about the sexism (which is great), but then these same people turn around and analyze the game through an incredibly sexist lens. I'm talking about the players, as well as the fans, podcasters, etc. The editors and producers clearly were on the side of "Dan and Rodney are horrible sexist pricks who are going to get their comeuppance" and were able to see their misogyny as problematic, all while totally under-editing a lot of the women this season. And I get that some sexism is worse or more overt than other types of sexism, but for these people to criticize it while perpetuating a lot of it as well is very hypocritical.This has also come on RHAP, where Rob and Stephen would praise Tyler's game and say he was a potential winner, while discounting Sierra and Carolyn, who were basically playing the same game. I'm very glad that someone asked them about this in one of the voicemail segments and I understand their reasoning for it, but still. It's bothersome. I also don't get is all the Jeff love re: the reunion. Yes, he shut Dan down and that was great. But it was pretty obvious that he didn't do it because he cared about the misogyny (which he claimed on twitter that he cared about and would address at the reunion). He did it because Dan hurt his feelings by bad-mouthing the Survivor team and the editing. If Dan hadn't made those comments about the show, Jeff wouldn't have been hard on him at all. Jeff was his usual craptastic self when it came to the sexism on the show. And the whole thing is kind of funny to me too because the only reason that Jeff is so protective of this show is because this is his "thing" now that he knows he can't get other work in Hollywood. A couple years ago he thought he was going to go off and have a successful talk show and you could tell that he didn't care about Survivor that much.

The best description I've seen of Dan is that he's like Michael Scott from The Office. It's so true that I think it just ruined The Office for me. Dan really does suck at life.

Talking about the season 31 voting has made me think about how funny our reactions to the editing are. It's amazing to me that we totally fall for the edits they're giving us even though a) we know the editing exists and the contestants are edited to be "characters" and to be fit into larger storylines and b) when there's evidence in the show that totally contradicts the edit they're trying to sell (e.g. selling Rupert as the hero, even though they kept in the scene where he almost gets violent with other players for writing his name down or, more recently, trying to sell Spencer as the lovable underdog even though he was kind of unpleasant and petulant whenever things didn't go his way). It's no wonder this works so well on "casual" fans who don't even pay attention to that stuff and thus still think Rupert is the best thing since sliced bread.

ITA with this. Tasha is very overrated and I don't get the massive fandom for Spencer. I guess some people just can't see past the underdog edit? Even thought he was given such a great edit I still found him to be whiny, entitled, a poor player (he had so many opportunities to shake the game up and didn't) and kind of unnecessarily rude to Kass (even though I didn't particularly like her either, but she was right when she called him out as entitled). He got a ton of confessionals and he was never an interesting or funny "narrator" to me. I saw a few pictures of him with short hair and I feel pretty confident in saying no, he would not get so much attention if he didn't have long hair. And I think it's ridiculous that male players can become fan favorites by having long hair and not being horribly offensive. Joe wasn't a good player and he was boring. I don't get the excitement for him at all. When a female players plays the same game as Joe did she's called boring, a coattail rider, etc. Terry - I think of Terry as the older, maybe slightly less arrogant, less asshole version of Ozzy. He'd be better on some reality show that was all challenges and no social game or strategizing. If he gets back on I feel like he won't change up his game much and will be boring. Varner - I am so excited about this. I don't even know why, but I totally loved him in Australia and he's bringing up the nostalgia feels for me. I read his AMA on reddit and he is so passionate about the game and about playing again. I think he's smart enough and has followed the show enough over the past few years to adapt to modern-day Survivor. I hope he makes it. Stephen - I thought he should have won Tocantins and am glad he's back in the mix. It seemed like his archetype had been filled up by Cochran and then Spencer and that he wouldn't be asked back again. Which is dumb. Why is there room for only one Survivor "nerd" every era, but there's room for tons of bland, interchangeable surfer dudes and mactors. Shane - I'm kind of torn. I know people loved him on Exile Island and I did too, but in thinking about it now he kind of reminds me of Brandon Hantz-lite. I think he'll be too insane to be enjoyable this time around. And there's been a ton of uproar over Dan saying somebody should have slapped Shirin, but let's not forget that Shane did threaten to kill Courtney in her "shitty apartment" and then said afterwards he would drive to his "club and that would be that". Yeah. Just a bit frightening. Yeah, it's been off-putting the way some of the potential female contestants have been using sex appeal to get votes. I liked Monica in Samoa, I thought she had potential, but this does not paint her in a favorable light for me. Same with Peih Geen and Kelley Wentworth. And I know that people could say that it shouldn't matter because they'll be wearing a bikini on the show anyway, but still. I'm not down with encouraging the objectification. This show is bad enough about that as it is. Abi Maria - I think she could do pretty well a second time and I like her enough that I don't mind if she comes back. And the first time she was competing with a torn ACL, which probably explains why she was so "annoying" to other people. Kass - I'm fine with her coming back. She kept Cagayan from being boring. And I don't like the fact that she can come across as cold or condescending, but I do like that she seems more aware of that now and I do like her feminist perspective on the game. Jeremy - I liked him in San Juan Del Sur and I'm fine with him coming back. Shirin - She's coming back for sure and I'm fine with that, but yeah, with these interviews I'm starting to see why people on this season may have found her annoying. Max - Oh lord. I read his AMA on reddit and he claims that his plan for the first vote when So left the game was so complex that, to this day, even the producers and Jeff still don't understand all of his amazing machinations (although maybe sometimes he is being sarcastic with these claims?). I usually like the passion superfans have for the game, but Max is too much. And I seriously think the producers put him up for second chances because they wanted to embarrass him when he inevitably doesn't get back on the show (and not because they "saw something" in him, as he likes to claim). That's the only thing that explains his edit, lack of screentime, etc. from this past season. It almost seems like Survivor wants to make fun of and crap on their most obsessive fans. Or maybe they thought cutting him out for the 4 episodes (or however many) he was on was actually the best edit they could give him.

I wasn't offended by the monologue necessarily, but I just didn't find it funny. Comparing child molestation to eating a candy bar is not that clever to me. I don't really care for Louis C.K.'s stand-up in general though, so that might be part of it. Also, not to turn this thread political, but I really hope the website that you linked to with Israel-Palestine casualty numbers is not the website where people are getting their news on this conflict from. That website has horribly inaccurate reporting (like, egregiously so to the point of tin-foil hat conspiracy theories) and is anti-Semitic (and yes, I know people can criticize Israel without being anti-Semitic, but this website is both anti-Semitic and anti-Israel). And their casualty numbers are not that accurate on the Palestinian side because they get their numbers from Hamas, a terrorist group that governs Palestine and that is known to inflate their civilian casualty numbers for media purposes. The Cold Open was amusing enough, but I think they're going to need a new take on Hillary other than "she's really, really ambitious!". That's been done to death already and won't be funny after another 18 months of this. I did like the part where Aidy was saying that they just don't like Hillary and never will and Hillary was like "yes, I've been hearing that for 20 years". The Elves sketch was bad. It was like they wanted to do a BDSM sketch because it's trendy and in the zeitgeist right now, but didn't think through the rest of it at all. They are still starting WU with "what's up?". Ugh. Pete Davidson was more of the same. It seemed like there were a lot of awkward pauses where they were expecting laughs and didn't get any. Gemma is like the British, non-politically interested version of the Girl at the Party. It was better the first time. I loved that Beck's character in the police line-up had new age-y kind of rings. That made his character extra hilarious to me because he just tried so hard to be so damn artsy. They definitely had the old cinema voices down in the Forgotten TV Gems sketch.

For me it was the fact that he spent the whole episode trying to impress everyone with how "cool" he is, instead of actually contributing to the panel in any meaningful way. One of the dragons on the Canadian Dragons' Den is the same way and you can tell immediately which products he'll make offers for because it's whatever he thinks will make him look "like totally, rad, man".

I still haven't forgotten about that either. It grosses me out. I wondered about how his wife takes it, but maybe she's the type that thinks it's awesome and that traditional gender roles are great for women.

Lol his interview with Rob is so bad that someone already transcribed it and Rob posted it on the website!

I actually think we should be grateful to Dan and that he was good TV - for a PSA that explains "Why we still need feminism".

I haven't listened to the interview yet, but I love how the summary of it says "Rob attempts to ask Dan about the following questions". Hahahaha!

I don't understand people saying Natalie Tenerelli has potential just because she was so young when she played the first time. You can tell when someone is young and naive, but smart vs. young, naive and dumb. She still doesn't come across as very bright or interesting. She was on the Survivor After Show during Caramoan and was terrible just on that. She seems very nice, so it wouldn't be the end of the world if she got back on, but she's not going to add anything either. I don't particularly like Mikayla, but she deserves a second chance just for the fact that was voted out because Brandon Hantz is a sicko. And I like that she is so blatant about that fact in that EW slideshow. Jeff loves Ciera and said at the reunion about her "that is how you play the game". I don't agree. She was actually a pretty bad player. She voted for her mom when it made no difference and her mom would have been voted off anyway and flipped a week too late, resulting in the rock draw. Probst should stop conflating "big moves" with "smart moves". Although he can't, because Jeff is dumb. I do think she would be pretty good a second time around though, although she is hinting in her EW section that she'll play more conservatively. Vytas comes across as creepy and sleazy to me and just as a player I don't think he deserves to go back.

I don't know. That's kind of what Survivor is most of the time. Most people don't willingly go to the end up with the smartest and best social players. It's just that this season these people are more unlikable than usual. And a lot of her recap seems to be talking about who she likes and dislikes from a personal point of view, but it would be interesting to hear her thoughts on the strategy this season.

Dan is the most delusional ever...but in a show where Rupert is considered the ultimate hero it's not surprising that Dan would see himself similarly.

I am glad that Jeff has spoken out about how problematic the misogyny and bullying from this season have been, but he is absolutely not the right person to address this. He doesn't seem to realize that the way he views masculinity/femininity, the way he favours the masculine ideal, etc. all contribute to the dehumanization of women and sexism that lead to crap like what we've seen.

It wouldn't surprise me if Will's hatred of Shirin had something to do with her religion. Saying that someone has "no soul" sounds like a very religious-based comment to make. And even if he thought Shirin was the most annoying person on the planet, saying that someone has "no soul" makes no sense. To be soulless sounds like he thinks Shirin is just evil. And it's totally inexplicable from what we've seen of her. I find some of the reactions to Tyler's gameplay weird. On RHAP they keep talking about him as a potential winner and as a good player. I didn't watch the episode last night and apparently he got a stronger edit than he usually does. But I still don't understand them speaking so highly of his game, other than the fact that he looks like a combination of Cochran + some random alpha male. When women (like Sierra) play this game it's considered under the radar, boring or coattail riding. But when a man does it, it's great gameplay and winner potential? And this comes after Rob just had a podcast to discuss the sexism on the show! And if Shirin is calling other people stupid and morons - well, it isn't good gameplay to do that to their faces, but you know what? They are stupid and they are morons. So I approve.

Ugh. "Just sit there and look pretty" is so gross. And peachmangosteen, I've thought Tyler was sexist since he struck up such a good friendship with Joaquin, who was grossly misogynistic, and since I read Max's interviews where he talked about how Tyler approved of Joaquin's sexism towards Shirin.

Probst should be removed from hosting until he takes several gender studies courses and goes to therapy.

From Probst's weekly Q&A over at EW: Oh good grief. He's going to talk to Rodney's mom. Okay, so I am definitely not watching the reunion show. And I don't think Jeff should be asking/asked any questions about sexism (unless it's to call him out on his own sexism). I think the show would be a lot less sexist if he wasn't the host or a producer.

I agree with everyone about Carolyn's smugness and that she just seems unnecessarily mean. I remember after the swap when the NC enjoyed that reward they won she said something like "and we even tolerated Shirin on the reward". It was just completely unnecessary and low. And after she was left out of Shirin and Max's strategy sessions she basically acted as though they were the two most vile and annoying people on the planet. It was not a proportionate response to what Max and Shirin had done. I also think her closeness with Rodney and Joaquin doesn't reflect well on her and I read some of Max's interviews where he talked about how Carolyn was totally fine with Joaquin directing sexist comments towards Shirin. I don't care how much she dislikes Shirin. Supporting sexist comments is not okay. I was rooting for at the beginning of the season, but once I read those things I was off the Carolyn train.

I've stuck through Survivor during some pretty low points - Heidik, Colton, both Hantzes, etc. But I skipped this episode and am definitely out for the rest of the season. I thought I might jump back in if it looked like the assholes were getting voted off, but I can't. I can't stomach a whole episode of these 7 people next week. I would be too horrified throughout the whole thing. My blood is boiling just reading these posts. I watched Shirin's Ponderosa video and was disgusted to see the reaction at TC from the other players after she was voted off. And no, I don't believe they acted that way out of "relief" that their plans hadn't been ruined. They were being the bullies they've been throughout the whole season. I hope Mike wins it all, but in any other season Mike would be my least favorite. I'm sorry, but he clearly has issues with women. They might not be as bad as Dan's or Rodney's but they're there. And the whole "women just want apologies and to be right" can quickly devolve into "women are inferior to men". I'm glad to hear that Jeff called out Dan's bullshit at TC. What did Probst say to him? Also, was Dan's fake apology to Shirin just a play for her jury vote later on? Even that seems like too game savvy a move for Dan. It seems like the rest of the season might play out with Dan getting Sierra and flipping back to Mike (which would be hilarious in light of his "flippers never win!" crap). That alliance would then have the extra vote and an idol. They could run the rest of the game. Then at final TC I expect Sierra to get no air time and be cut out of all the camera shots, Dan to get totally eviscerated by the jury as the worst person and player to ever be on the show and Mike to win unanimously. That's the only way Probst's saying the winner is "likeable" and that this is amazing season makes sense at all (though I still wouldn't agree with him on either of those

ITA. And I don't really care for when he hosts because you can tell when he doesn't like a sketch and just kind of half-asses it.

I'm over sitcoms where they don't know how to write girls/women and you can be either intelligent and unattractive or attractive and unintelligent. I know some people will say that Haley has a lot of social and street smarts, but I don't like that they tend to write her intelligence as being manipulative.

Alex is still the most neglected kid in sitcom-land. It was dumb the way Jay and Gloria kept saying "Joe's going to be here in 20 minutes" "He's almost here". So what if the castle wasn't ready by then? He is a toddler. It's not like he was an adult who they were throwing a surprise birthday party for.

The Mitch and Gloria being too old/tired storyline was a repeat of one they already did with Mitch and Cam (and it was much funnier before).

All this discussion of bullying has made me remember how much I dislike Tyson. He was awful to Sierra for no reason in Tocantins and said something like "I just like to tell people they're stupid and crush their dreams". But I don't remember him catching that much hatred over at TWOP. Am I wrong about that? To me, he always came across as sexist and as someone who would say things like "women aren't funny" because he is incredibly insecure and can't handle the idea of any competent, intelligent or personable woman. He also made some dumb comment about his girlfriend at the Blood vs. Water reunion that came off like she was some trophy for him (and yes, I know he was caring towards her during the season, but the reunion comment was dumb). And I have no idea why anyone thought he was compelling enough to bring back 3 times.