Miss Scarlet

"Crowd-pleasing" vacancy is such a good way to describe his jokes earlier in the season and his attack on Shirin. I'm sure part of him did that because he thought the rest of his alliance would love him for it and it would be something they could bond over. And to people saying that Shirin provoked him a) from what we saw it was Jenn and Mike saying that lied and telling other people that (Jenn said "he just gave us the s*** he didn't like" and b) I don't care what Shirin said about him sharing or not sharing food. That kind of disgusting bullying is not excusable and then c) Will is so idiotic that he actually denied everything he did at tribal because he's not aware of what his actions actually are.

Except that, based on what we were shown, it was Jenn and Mike who were the ones that said Will was being dishonest. Shirin might have agreed with them, but Jenn started that line of thought and was the most outspoken about it. The way Will chose to handle it was a) disgusting, cruel and unethical for the content of what he said (not to mention how illogical everything he said was) and b) he chose to attack Shirin because she was an easier target than Jenn and Mike. It made me livid.

I think these are good descriptions of what Jenn seems like and why she comes off as unlikable. The party example made me laugh because she totally wouldn't care about insulting someone's party by calling it lame-o, while being too cool for it and making it all about herself. If Jenn likes you then she's super nice to you and loves everything you do, but if she doesn't like you, she'll hate on you for everything. And I think that she only appreciates people if they're exactly like her is and is very narrow-minded and judgmental. (Which is another reason it doesn't make sense that she was ever cast for NC. Aren't they supposed to be accepting and open-minded? Shouldn't CBS have just said "this our tribe of young and unemployed people"?) And she's so judgmental that two people could do or say the same thing and if one of them is her or one of friends she'll think it's the best thing ever and if the other person is someone outside her circle she'll make fun of them. If she saw someone walking down the street with her style of dress and piercings or whatever, she'd probably make fun of them for being a poser. But those things on her are totally cool. I don't think she would be as liked (on or off the show) if she was on a different season where her opposing alliance wasn't composed of people like Rodney and Dan. If her competition was less awful then I think she'd be viewed the same way Abi-Maria was. I feel like her tribemates and viewers would get really sick of her constant Debbie Downer attitude. It is really awful and morale-sucking to be around someone who just hates on everything and has no regard for other people. Because there's a difference between hating on people who are saying and doing horrible things (again, Rodney and Dan) and just hating on anyone who is different from you. It's okay to not want to be best friends with someone who's different from you, but you also shouldn't be acting like that person is a black mark on society, especially when their differences are over dumb, trivial things anyway (like hating on Max and Shirin for their superfandom). Although maybe her tribe doesn't react to her the way the tribes reacted to Abi in the Philippines because she saves most of her negativity for her confessionals and they don't see it. I think she was cast to be something of a Courtney Yates 2.0 and I was super excited for that. But as I've said before, I don't see it. Courtney could get away with insulting other players because she would explain why they were awful while being hilarious, charming and super perceptive. I still laugh whenever I think about how she asked Jean-Robert if he thought he was Luke Perry. Jenn's confessionals are just "shuuuuut uuuuup" and "stop existing". To me that comes across as juvenile and boring. I don't find those confessionals entertaining and I don't think they add anything to the show. I really don't get why people are defending her almost quitting, but maybe it has to do with the fact that there are so few well-developed women on Survivor, who get a lot of confessionals and screen-time that it can be hard not to root for the ones that don't just get the typical invisible edits. I did the same thing with Carolyn earlier this season. But imagine if Rodney had tried to quit after his best friend Joaquin had been voted out. No one would be defending him (and I say this as one of Rodney's top haters). I've also seen people say they like her because they think she's so authentic and unfiltered. I don't think see that. I mean, her dislike of other players is probably genuine, but I think most of what she does is her trying really, really hard to be cool and to get attention without looking like she's trying to get attention. I don't buy her "I don't care about this game, people take it too seriously". She was super excited at the first tribal council and said she was "freaking out" before playing her idol at the TC after the merge. (This is also why she could have been a bit nicer about Max and Shirin. I get that they were annoying, but I thought someone who is a fan of the show should have been more understanding of them.) I think she actually cares about the game a lot and that slips out every once in a while, but when it does she's careful to conceal it again. She's very invested in presenting herself as apathetic and disengaged because it's this very junior high definition of what being "cool" is. It reminds me a lot of students who are like "Psh I don't even care about school. I never study for tests and I still get straight As". And then eventually it comes out that they're not laid-back at all and actually have super high anxiety. I noticed in her pre-season video that she also seemed very invested in letting everyone know that she was a guys' girl and it's for the same reasons. Wanting to quit falls into her cultivating this image because if she gets voted out it'll look like it's what she wanted and that she never cared about the game anyway. It is a defense mechanism and it works out well for her in the sense that if she does get to go home it looks like she basically engineered her own vote-out and if she makes it to the end she can claim that she did it on purpose because being non-threatening is a strategy. I like it when players don't take the game too seriously (and don't end up being bitter afterwards), but that's not the same as pretending not to care about the game at all, making fun of other people that do and then having a tantrum whenever things don't go your way. And it was a tantrum. Which is funny, because it makes it seem like she needs to be coddled when she's the one that said (about Nina) "you don't coddle people in this game". Besides, she has nobody to blame but herself for her current position. She ruined her own game. There were so many swing votes at the merge that she could have picked up and she didn't. In exit interviews Kelly said that she and Carolyn didn't like the NC. Based on Kelly's interview and Max's interviews, it's probably because Jenn is not very pleasant to anyone but Hali and Joe. So I don't blame other people for not wanting to work with her. And her behaviour from the past few episodes has made me re-think my opinions about her interactions with Nina. At first I thought that maybe Nina was being oversensitive and unfairly blaming Jenn and Hali for their tribe dynamics. But now? I think Jenn is probably very exclusive and doesn't care about making other people feel welcome. She's the type of person that would walk up to a group of people, interrupt their conversation to start talking to one person in the group and inviting that person to a party without inviting anyone else and then walk away, never having even acknowledged that anyone else was present during the conversation. So I don't really blame Nina for being as upset as she was. I remember in the first episode Jenn said "I do what I want to do when I want to do it" and all I thought was "okay, so that's the description for the NC that CBS is using this season" but looking back on it and, as Ms Blue Jay said, it's problematic when doing what she wants to do involves being insensitive or rude to other people. I wouldn't say that she's a "Mean Girl" (not that I like that term) or a "cool girl" just because I don't think she'd fit with the stereotypical Mean Girls we can think of. I don't think they'd find her cool or that she'd be popular. To them she'd probably be too "alternative" and "weird" (although maybe that is the trend right now, I have no idea). I feel like to be a Mean Girl or a cool kid on Survivor all it means is that you're in the "younger person" alliance. If she was with a group of people that were all her age I don't know what group she would fit into. But she definitely seems exclusive and insensitive and those are qualities that can be ascribed to anyone in any group.

Lol. When she was talking about how the constitution is the greatest blueprint for government that was ever devised did she not realize that there is no equal rights amendment?

I apologize for removing part of the quote in order to make it smaller without thinking of how that would affect the context of it. However, there was no need for these types of comments. Let's all have fun and be respectful towards each other.

Part of discussing the show is discussing the strategies, but also the players' motivations, personalities, content of their confessionals, etc. And that usually involves describing how a person's confessionals or actions came across to you. This may not be everyone's style of posting, but people are allowed to discuss this, as long as no one says anything inappropriate or vitriolic. There's no need for people to get defensive when their favorite players are criticized and try to police other posters. My favorite players are criticized all the time and lots of unfavorable things are said about their personalities. It doesn't bother me.

Somehow I don't think that posting bigoted, racist and homophobic tweets and being exclusive to people with disabilities qualifies someone as being "a nice girl"

I know a lot of people (fans and Survivors in their exit interviews) have been saying that they like Rodney because he's so funny. For me, doing accurate impressions isn't enough to overcome horrible misogyny.

To everyone who said "Jenn, those are not your chickens" ITA. She won them in a reward challenge with Joe, Will and Hali. So if you want to look at it that way Joe and Will have as much a say about what to do with them as she does. But really once the tribes merge everything belongs to everyone (unless you're Boston Rob). From exit interviews it seems like Joe doesn't remember that fake idols have been made before. Bob in Gabon made a pretty convincing one by also taking beads and twine off his torch. From Joe's exit interview with EW I don't get why in Hali and Joe's exit interviews they keep blaming the Will flip on him not wanting to play with a young group. It's not as annoying as hearing "so and so didn't want to work with me because they were like so totally jealous of me", but it's dumb. They should just admit they didn't do a good enough job keeping him or bringing anyone else in. Because they did a horrible job with that. I mean, in this very interview Joe says they ignored him. And saying they were too young doesn't make sense because they also point out how close he became with Rodney and Rodney is almost the same age as the NC.

I don't buy that Jenn's plan is to pretend to want to quit, in the hopes that it will have the reverse effect. And I also don't buy that her trying hard at the challenges shows that. I'm sure she wanted to eat the chocolate that the winners of the reward got and I think she did want to get the immunity to give to Joe because she thought it would be hilarious (and probably also get her a lot of attention). The editors are not tricking us. If this was all part of Jenn's master plan we would know. Besides being unpleasant, this season has been boring so far. I guess in comparison to the other guys Joe looks good, but I don't understand him as a fan favorite type. He's boring and he was poor player. It's interesting that players like him don't really get to do much, but be mildly pleasant I guess and become fan favorites. When was the last time a female player was a favorite, despite doing very little and being a poor player? In his ponderosa video Hali tells him he was voted out because he's the best player in the game. I think players need to start re-thinking what "threats" in the game. It's just always assumed it's these big buff guys. Why? Because they're seen as athletic? A lot of them do poorly at the post-merge challenges. Because they're seen as strategists? A lot of the time there is very little evidence of that. As soon as people merge they want to get the big guys out, without even knowing if they have strategic mindsets. Joe may have been likable, but he couldn't use that likability to get people over to his side. People make a lot of these "threat" assumptions based on dumb sexist stereotypes. Jenn is a much bigger strategic threat than Joe (which Shirin confirmed at tribal). I think Jenn and Shirin are going to go far. They wouldn't have been given such big edits this whole season if they were the next 2 to go. I think they'll join up with Mike's alliance to take out Rodney's 4. Maybe that's where Probst's Shakespearean twist comes in. I think it was a good move for Shirin to solidify an alliance with Mike, except for the fact that now she's stuck working with Dan. Ew.

You can be friends with some girls and still have internalized misogyny. It just means those girls are the "exceptions". I've known many women like that.

I thought the tweet about the Asian movie character was absolutely vile. According to the reddit page there was also a tweet that she deleted after it got posted online that said "The mall smells like fat people, soup and Mexicans. I wish there was another way to get to Aldo #whitepeopleproblems" and apparently there were/are way more offensive tweets than just the screen-captured ones. If Joe and Jenn are dating it makes me lose a lot of respect for him. I'm sorry, but she seems awful. And I know people are going to say "well, those tweets are from a few years ago and she was young, every young person does that!", but I don't agree with that. Those tweets are awful and an 18/19 year old should know better. I read the comments on reddit and I totally agree that I've never even thought those things before, let alone said them. And even if she doesn't tweet stuff like that anymore she has shown herself on the show to be very intolerant of anyone different from her. The way she dealt with Nina, the way she talked about wanting to work with guys instead of girls in her pre-game interview, etc. shows me that she still has a lot of internalized prejudice, sexism, etc.

I'm really surprised at the slack people are giving Jenn. I get that she's playing with a horrible cast of people and they just voted her best friend out, but she's not the only person to have ever had that problem on Survivor. Sierra had the same thing happen to her earlier in the season (and it was probably worse for Sierra, because everyone on her tribe was horrible, whereas at least Jenn has a few sane people to talk to) and we didn't hear about her wanting to quit. What Jenn tried to do was quitting. I actually laughed when she told Jeff that what she was doing wasn't quitting because it absolutely was. And I think her trying to quit in this way was all about continuing to try and look "cool" (like I don't even care if they vote me out man) and in-control (no one voted me out, I chose to get voted out, it was all me). She should stop being so concerned with her image and just play the freaking game. Here's the deal: Jenn likes to complain a lot about things that suck. You know what sucks? Her attitude. She gloats and is very arrogant when things go her way and then is totally immature and bratty when things don't go her way. There's a secret scene from this week's episode where she talks about how she's mad because "1) they voted my best friend off 2) I didn't get chocolate and 3) they're trying to take my pets away". Honestly, those sound like words that are coming out of a 3 year old's mouth. I don't even remember thinking that Jenna and Heidi were at this level of immaturity. And frankly, I don't think she should get to complain about how annoying other people are, when she's probably the one of the most annoying people out there. All of this stuff, combined with her horrible tweets (which I posted about in her thread) makes me dislike her almost as much as I dislike Dan and Rodney. But she is awfully close to that level of dislike.

In the corner of the screen you could see Dan picking up Sierra after they won the reward. I get the feeling he just uses challenge celebrations as chances to be pervy. I bet Sierra was a lot less excited for the chocolate after that. I don't like the non-existent edit she is getting. They do this to one or a few women every season and it's horrible. I can tell from her secret scenes that she is just as articulate and interesting as other people who are getting confessionals, so she should be getting a few each show too.

I think Jeff got a boner during the first round of the reward challenge where Rodney and Mike were competing against each other.

Ugh. That's disappointing, but I suppose it's what happens when you're a man and so will not be on the receiving end of Dan's disgusting misogyny and have been not seen him verbally abuse women because he waits until they're alone in the water to do it.

So apparently's Jenn's twitter had some unfortunate tweets... http://www.reddit.com/r/survivor/comments/32qpjf/jenns_racist_and_homophobic_tweets/

Exactly. Especially since he probably says misogynistic, gross stuff about people knows behind their backs all the time. The gross sexist stuff he said about listening like a guy vs listening like a girl was said in confessional. The disgusting comments about slapping Shirin were said in confessional. So just because people in his life haven't heard him say this to their faces doesn't mean he doesn't say it in real life. And I found it gross that whole article was about blaming the editing and painting him in a sympathetic light. "Oh, poor me, my lifelong dream has been ruined". Well, Dan, you have no one to blame for that but yourself. Own up to it and try to improve. I did like how when they were talking about positive feedback for Dan the best they could come up with was Rob saying he's "fantastically terrible" (and I was not happy about the way Rob reacted to Dan during that Know-It-Alls, I just thought the use of that in this article was hilarious). Hardly a ringing endorsement for his Survivor skills.

I think the article sums about the things that Dan's "family" and "friends" don't get - Dan is nice to them because he likes them, so of course they won't see the side of him he displayed to Shirin. He's probably the type to turn on people really quickly though and has lots of ex-friends. The most surprising part of that article is that it says 200 of Dan's family and "fans" came to his premiere. The fans part was shocking to me. Also, I still think that he isn't really married and the woman in the picture with him was rented for this photo.

I get the feeling that that was the tip of the iceberg and Mike is more sexist than we're being shown. He gives me ick vibes.

Cagayan idol hunt > World's Apart idol hunt

I think NC has been making too many decisions based on emotions. There were much better targets to vote last week than Kelly, but they wanted to vote her off because they felt burned by her. And I think Dan was basically an emotional vote too. I don't think they specifically picked Dan because he was the vote the would best allow them to swing other people over to their side. I think that was just a coincidence. The NC are too passive. There's a secret scene with Jenn where she talks about how she's mad that Joe didn't take her on the reward. She says she's mad because she didn't just play her idol for herself at the last TC, but did it for their alliance. But I think it would only make sense for her to make that claim if she had given her idol to another NC. It's hard for her to say that when it really was self-preservation first and foremost. Which is fine and right, but she shouldn't be whining about how she is owed a reward because she used an idol on herself. That's just dumb. And the secret scene is really whiny and immature. And like I said before, she describes how she's so annoyed, but without saying anything funny or insightful. It's more like "ugh" and *facepalm*. She really does come off as a bratty, sullen teenager sometimes.

ITA about waiting until he got Shirin alone. That is such a classic bully/psychopath move. It's usually that or trying to get a bunch of people to gang up on their victim and make their victim look like crap. Yeah, I think that's why people are okay with Rodney. On the other hand, Rodney had a horrible comment about wanting to take Lindsey by her hair and spank her. I'm not sure why that didn't get as much backlash as Dan's comment got. Excusing it because Rodney is younger and more obviously fits the frat/douchebag archetype isn't right.

Hali had a weird edit. She got a lot of confessionals and they all seemed to be character related, rather than strategic. It was all like "I like surfing", "the constitution is so great", but very little about her actual gameplay. It was interesting. I wonder if she got a big edit (for a woman) on this show because the first jury member tends to get a lot of air-time or because they think she's an interesting character and she has a shot of returning in another season. I think she could do really well the second time out. Her exit interviews have been pretty interesting. The one thing that I think is weird is that she doesn't seem to want to admit that the NC made a mistake with how they handled Will. She says "all I heard was that Will wanted to play with the grown-ups" instead of talking about how they should have made him feel closer to them.

There's a secret scene where Dan talks about his puzzle failures and then says something like "it was just another buuuuh for Dan Foley in the game of Survivor" So I think that deep down, he's actually really insecure about his game (and his appearance, intelligence, life, etc) and that's why he picks on Shirin. He does it so that he can tell himself "At least I'm not the worst one out here. At least other people don't think of me the way they think of Shirin". I don't think he actually believes he's good at the game at all. It doesn't make his behaviour any less horrible or disgusting though. Hali has a secret scene where she talks about the possible women's alliance and says something like "I don't know what happened to Dan in his childhood to mess him up so much" and I swear you can hear the cameraman laughing. It's hilarious.