Galloway Cave

We are from the south, with both families having lived in the same area for centuries. My parents are fifth cousins by marriage, I think. And on both sides there is a bunch of double lines resulting in second cousin/great grandmother-type designations. We are almost veering into polygamy family wreath territory! I love seeing all the old names too. Some are very poetic. My name is the seventh in line on my mom's side.

I had used Ancestry.com for records search only for many years. I found some information but still couldn't find my grandmother. As a last-ditch effort before we turned to private investigators, I made a public family tree (one that could be viewed by anyone) and within one hour of publishing it I had a hit on another public family tree that contained her name also. It was the tree of her last husband's mother. A day later I had another hit from a distant cousin, who put me in contact with my great uncle, who was the keeper of the family history on my grandmother's side. In the last few years, the database on Ancestry has exploded. So many other databases are loading their information online- directories, churches, etc. The biggest problem with using information from other family trees is people find information but don't take the time to double check dates, locations, name spellings and other such things. They just add and add anything to build a tree. I have found all sorts of mistakes in trees regarding my own family information- a son with a birth date AFTER their mother, or siblings born within 5 months of each other. You really have to be careful when sorting through other's trees. roamyn- My mom traced part of her family back to Olaf the Black (Norway/Scotland) in the 13th century. Sea Kings!

I'm a genealogy freak. My mom researched her mom and dad's lines back in the late 80s/early 90s, using the Mormon libraries. She did a pretty good job at getting a good, detailed genealogy going back to the 1500s. She also was able to get a bit of my dad's father's line going back to the mid 1800s but hit a dead end on when they came over from Scotland. We had nothing on my dad's mom's side since he was taken from her when he was seven years old and had lost contact with her. I was able to flesh out my mom's side and my dad's paternal side a bit more using Ancestry.com. After 10 years of computer searching, I was finally able to find my dad's mom. She had passed away 13 years ago, but I found her last husband, living just 3 hours away from us! He did not know about my dad existence. Surprise! We have built a relationship and he now lives 15 minutes away. I have been able to find out more about my grandmother and her ancestry (back to 1700s) online, including the other five husbands (and counting, it seems like) she had, found her living half-siblings and cousins and made contact with them. I discovered I look exactly like my grandmother. There are still about 15 years of her life that are a mystery. I still haven't been able to flesh out my dad's paternal side pre-USA. On Ancestry, the info for anyone living is not shown. I never post pictures or documents of any kind, with current or ancestral information. I ran into a guy who was determined that his ancestor was part of my mom's family line based on some bad research his family had done. He wanted photos of my ancestors to include in his tree. I wasn't going to send him anything. Info about the deceased is online and if someone wants to use it for schemes there isn't anything I can do about it.

Because they just.don't.care. The older kids have said they were used to being disappointed by their parents on a regular basis. They are used to being moved around from state to state, home to home. They are used to hearing their parents spout pipe dreams, then not follow through. When the adults first talked about buying homes in Vegas, the older kids were all "yeah, right, we will believe it when we see it." When talk turned to the McMansions, they STILL didn't believe they would actually get them. They have talked about all this in talking heads on the show. We haven't heard that kind of talk lately; it may be due to the fact that they finally came through on ONE promise (new homes) or Kody may have cracked down on the negative talk. The younger kids will be getting a taste of the bait and switch when things fall apart after TLC. It is sad and unnecessary but it is unfortunately a way of life for the Browns.

If it was a job for one couple, then they would have no problem qualifying for one home with the TLC contract. But they are basically four individual families trying to qualify for four loans on four expensive homes, with four bankruptcies and other various credit problems in their backgrounds. There has been a lot of speculation about what they earn per episode but TLC and the production company are very cheap when it comes to the "talent" and based on what K+8 made, the Brown Family is probably not raking in a ton of money. The contract end date would also be problematic; there may not be one. Even if there is an end date, the show will not go on for years and years. They have maybe one more season and that will be it. Game over. Then what kind of income stream will they have? Certainly not the joory business. Back to Lehi they will go, with Christine, Janelle and Robyn in the house and Meri off on her own. Kody will have to go back to some sort of sales job, Janelle will hopefully find a real estate job or another state job with benefits, Meri can finish school and get some type of counseling job and I have no idea about Robyn or Christine. We may get an occasional where are they now special (like we just got with K+8) that will pay for the first year of a child's college but that will be it.

I was wondering how much influence the show's producers had on JTF and his reactions. He started out fairly horrified and his reactions seemed like they were real and in the moment. Later, they seemed a little rehearsed and forced, like he was trying not to be so negative or let his gut reactions show. I've noticed the show wants to always end on a positive note with every subject, even when they discover something really bad like Holocost victims (Lisa Kudrow) or ancestors who fought on the "wrong" side of wars. It seemed like JTF was more restrained towards the end and the show was rushed concerning his g-grandfather. The nicest thing they had to say was he raised the remaining kids after his divorce but gave no reason. I personally like the warts-and-all type of stories; that is what makes us all so interesting and gives us all great stories to pass on!

None of them had any money stashed away either. Janelle stated in one of the episodes that they blew through both her and Kody's retirement money when they moved to Vegas. I think Robyn worked as a waitress so she was barely able to support her kids with that income. They all tried to qualify for conventional loans before the McMansions fell out of the sky into their laps and they failed due to the bankruptcies and poor credit. They owe more on the Lehi house than it's worth. They are pumping their money into a hobby joory business that has had only 500 "sells" in two and a half years so far. We are as puzzled as you are.

JTF tweeted that one thing cut from the show was that his g-grandfather named his first two children after his own lawyer! I agree @eejm this could have been an extended episode, and maybe even the season finale if they could have dug up more interesting stuff on Jesse the First. As horrifying as the old guy was, he led quite a life and JTF now has an interesting story to tell.

Yeah, this is the first time the researchers had to create multiple flowcharts, books and letters documenting the various misdeeds, crimes and marriages of someone they were documenting! Poor JTF, at first he was showing his complete horror at his g-grandfather, then he tried in vain to phrase things in a somewhat complimentary way. But no, Jesse O was just an old-fashioned con-artist. I do wonder what happened to his last wife and why he ended up raising all the kids at such an old age.

Maybe Christine was just upset that TLC (and family) was using a non-pregnancy cliff-hanger to string along the viewing audience (knowing that Robyn isn't pregnant). Children mean everything to her and maybe this just tips the scales as too offensive for her. The Meri Surrogacy story was just talk and never something that was going to happen, since Meri had already said she was not going to go that route in earlier episodes. But Kody and Robyn have said they would have more children. Christine tweeted several times after the show that she wasn't upset about Robyn having a baby and she was dealing with "other issues." During the finale we saw Aspyn talking to Kody on the phone, asking if Robyn was pregnant, then discussing it with Christine. Christine didn't seem uncomfortable during that conversation. So my take is she isn't bothered that much by the thought of Robyn actually being pregnant, but by the way TLC and the family used the cliff-hanger. Or she just had to go to the bathroom and TLC needed the drama moment to fill the 40 minutes of this lame-ass show. ​ETA: Just read another good hypothesis at Cynical's blog (Thanks to Eeeewwww): The producers had Christine walk off, requesting no pregnancy discussion when she returned. That is how they got out of talking about the cliff-hanger. It would also explain why Christine was so awkward rather than upset when she left. Who knows with Christine and this show. It could be a combination of everything.

I thought Christine couldn't have anymore children after the last two difficult pregnancies requiring hospitalization. She knows that Kody wants more children because he tore Hunter's head off about it during one episode when Hunter said they had enough kids. Kody also told Meri he wanted more kids whether he had them with her or another wife (ie. Robyn) and Christine had to see that show. So why is she so upset about Kody possibly having another child with Robyn?

So let me get this straight: Christine, Meri and Janelle agreed to leave the set while Tamron talked to Kody and Robyn about makin' babies. But the longer Christine sat there and thought about it, the more she freaked out about it until she had to finally walk off the set. Then after she and Robyn talked it over, NO ONE got to talk about makin' babies. Therefore, no resolution to the cliffhanger. The hell? Logan gets to display his half nekkid body on Instagram (and on national TV) and Kody and CO. don't bat an eye, but Meri crawled up one of the girl's butt on one of the earlier season's episodes for wearing a low-cut shirt and Kody makes a fool of himself (yet again) about his daughter kissing? At least the make-up gun wasn't set on full blast this time. ETA: looks like we all answered at the same time! But at least we all saw and interpreted it the same way-another load of Brown Bullshit.

As I have said elsewhere, they use this episode as Damage Control, a chance to revise history once again. Nothing new, just fix the misconceptions from the biffs they made during the season. Even then, they usually don't fix anything, they just make bigger idiots of themselves. I am looking forward to Christine's Set Stomp-Off and what the hell prompted it this time. More than likely she just needed to go to the bathroom.

So true. She was probably choked to death but there are few bones left to prove it. The RV is long gone so no forensic evidence to be found there. The suspect won't talk (nor will his wife let the cops close enough to him to even convince him to talk). Maybe give the case another 6-8 months, wait for other witnesses to come forward with other statements, then proceed with what they have. Other jurisdictions have proceeded with about the same as what they already have. They never interviewed the son for general information about his mom, like they have with other cases. Wonder why. I know he was only five at the time but there have been other victim's children who were young at the time of their parent's murder who were interviewed for general "what was your mom/dad like" information.

[The problem] is the religion's insistence that women (and women ONLY) have to overcome that normal human instinct in order to become someone worthy of living for eternity on a Celestial Planet with those other mates. They spend their entire life miserable, hurt, feeling competitive and lacking because they are feeling normal human emotions, then they are made to feel even more miserable and lacking when they can't master those emotions in the name of their religion. [snip] Why would someone put themselves through all of that when there really isn't any way to suppress those types of emotions and come out of it healthy?

What is the purpose of that short underlayer? You would think he would want as much long hair as possible.

Last week's show was the finale and next week's Tell All (also known as Damage Control since they don't Tell All on those episodes) is new. Don't know what is up with TV Guide. Christine does go with the tried and true, walk off the set routine, so maybe that is what is tripping it up.

We heard Christine say she hadn't seen Kody in a week during last season, so I don't know if that included the kids, the other wives or just her. I remember over at TWoP we were wondering where the hell he was during that time and who he was with (it was after they moved into the McMansions, so it was after the family bonding time with Robyn and Sol). From what we have seen on the show, some of those kids just completely ignore him when he is in their homes so I wonder how often he is around. I get the feeling he goes to the house de jour (if he really does keep a schedule at this point), plops down in his big cushy man chair with his laptop and cell phone, then zones out from everything. Maybe take a nap or two, then goes to bed. When the cameras are rolling, it's a different story. You're probably right. The family had long-simmering issues just below the surface that she didn't know anything about. She just didn't realize how adding a fourth wife and kids, along with the TV show, would implode the family.

Yes, Utahans have a strange accent and pronunciation. I live here but was raised in Arizona, so I can really hear it. They say fill for feel, dill for deal, etc. The town of Hurricane is pronounce HUR-kin. There are websites devoted to the Utah accent and pronunciations. It's just that for some reason Christine's INKing was worse this episode.

The only times they were all together in one house were at the beginning of the Meri/Janelle marriage (briefly, until Janelle moved into her own place after The Kitchen Wars) and for five years in Lehi at the plig house, with all three families. Otherwise they have always lived in separate houses. Janelle even moved 30 miles away from the family for several years. Kody's war cry of "Under one roof!" was just chest thumping for the show. Christine says that having a full time husband is too much work. I think what she really means is having a full time marriage is too much work. She obviously adores Kody and loves being with him, but she doesn't have the mental ability to deal with the issues of a 24/7 marriage. What I see with all these marriages is they are all surface, no depth. When you are spending 8-12 hours with someone every 4 days, and most of that is sleeping, you don't have the time to have in-depth talks about anything. The wives have said they want their time with Kody to be nice and easy, so they don't bring up the ugly stuff. There is no way to develop the type of intimate relationships us boring monogamists have. When there were just three wives, I think they had more time and more of a connection with Kody, especially in the Lehi home. Now in Vegas, with an extra wife, more kids, more "celebrity" demands and separate houses again, all the marriages are in terrible shape. I don't know what Robyn was expecting, going from a monogamous relationship to a 4-way, but the only way she is going to keep on top of this shitstorm is to keep popping out babies.

I heard it as a hard "INK" sound ("amaz-INK") and it was driving me crazy too. I kept wondering why she was putting a K on the end of words.

I'm a river guide and I was back to work three months after my L4-5 spinal fusion (at age 51). My doc was stunned. You are right, sitting is the worse thing and is hard to do for extended periods of time. I work on the big 37 foot motor rigs and end up standing a lot in the motor well. Maybe Junior can build a modified standing post at the helm to help relieve the stress on his back. I also wondered, like several of you, why he didn't hire or have a back-up captain for his boat. That was a ton of money being wasted, sitting in port. Hopefully he timed the surgery so they really only missed a bit of the season and the editing monkeys made it seem like more. I wasn't paying too much attention to the squealing monkey noises coming out of Elliot. Why did he tell them to start using the totes in the first place? That seemed to create a domino effect of "fuck you and the shitty equipment you own" that happened. So far, between Fischer and the rest of the crew, they have caused about $75,000 worth of damage to his boat this season. Well done, gentlemen.

I noticed that when Kody has his hair up in the pony tail, there is a strip of hair that is cut short that runs from ear to ear around the back of his head. What the hell is that all about? You would think the moron would want as much long hair as possible. I heard the Breanna Brown thing too but unless her biological dad gave up his parental rights, Kody can't adopt her. I guess if her brother can go by another name (ignoring his father) so can she. I guess these people forgot they wrote a book that contradicted a few things they talked about tonight. They also like to ignore some basic details, like how Meri and Janelle knew each other in the first place (sister-in-laws). At this point I so don't care if Robyn is pregnant. If they are going to make an entire season out of another pregnancy, I'm out.

I'm a river guide in the Grand Canyon and we have at least one or two people with food allergies on every trip. A medical emergency requires a satellite phone call (if we can get out), then a helicopter into the canyon (if they are available or it is daylight). So we take food allergies very seriously. I make the peeps read the labels and put the decision on them, and keep food items separate as best I can. It is nerve-wracking and time-consuming but necessary. Another company just recently had a woman pass away during the trip due to an allergic reaction to nuts; they are still trying to sort out how she ingested them since the guides were diligent with food prep. Never in a million years would any of us sit and laugh because we: 1) used a food someone is allergic to ON PURPOSE, 2) forgot to tell them we used it and 3) are now watching them in serious discomfort, damn near shitting their pants. She should have made a small portion of pot pie without milk. Asswipe. Elliot: To Asswipe Girlfriend in wheelhouse- "Wrap your legs around me" Me: [barfing up seafood lunch I ate earlier] I'm kind of enjoying the other captains giving Elliot shit during The Bait. Unfortunately Elliot is too stupid to understand they are giving him shit. If I remember correctly, they were only out for a very short time during the blue season and they did eventually get on the crab. They don't always get on the crab immediately; even Casey took a while this season. Josh and Jake were major pricks to Derrick and Derrick stood up to both of them. The fight on The Bait was a little over the top but I kinda saw where Derrick was coming from. This season we are seeing a different Josh, one who has grown up, understands the business a bit more and understands what it means to run and own a boat. Plus he isn't as raw from the death of his father and implosion of his brother. He's the one who is being respectful and keeping his head screwed on about the business, even if it is for the show. I was a little pissed at the other captains for giving him shit on The Bait for apologizing to the crew for hosing them with a wave. He messed up driving and took responsibility for it, Nothing wrong with that.

She told Christine she had to hide the fact that her half sisters were her sisters. Then we find out that all the kids are from the same mother. There was a reason she was struggling with that conversation, it was completely scripted. Shame on Christine for using her to further the Persecution Agenda. The "getting worse" part will probably happen now, especially with the whole first-bite thingy.