JenMcSnark

That, to me, is what felt slightly "off" about Felicity. It wasn't off so much as we got more of her depth. I felt like she was light, happy, and fun but at the same time, there was a solemness behind it. Like it was work for her. We don't get to see that on Arrow because she's not even in the top 5 of focus right now. Last week, I almost felt she was too happy. It doesn't match the so-called story they tried to sell me in the premiere. With this more fleshed-out version, I can see that she's happy because she wants to be happy, but that doesn't mean the other stuff isn't affecting her. Much more real to me. Love her.

Love how EBR is dressed up as a sexy astronaut since she said she wanted to be one before she got glasses. I like the one of Colton with the make up on. "I woke up this way" haha

And he also said that the termites had been watching the group at the church. Also have to say that I've really come to like and appreciate Sasha this season (so far). Another bad ass female. Anybody else worry that Tyreese couldn't actually stab Bob in the head? The way they didn't really show us or show him make that much of a motion with his arm/hand... I think he just pretended and then wrapped him up and tried to bury him real quick so no one would know. I mean, WalkerBob couldn't really get out of a grave, could he? Just me? Okay. I don't trust you Tyreese!! And the actor who plays Bob was awesome too. I really loved the "tainted meat! scene. So. Much. And I thought the scenes with Sasha and Rick were really touching as well. Especially liked how he told Sasha he didn't say anything about being bit because then it would have been all about the end. And he really liked the middle. Awww, Bob. I'll miss you.

Except he wouldn't be a very good pet unless they made him a new leg. Walkers gonna walk...and Bob can't walk.

Rewatching S1 and I find myself very bitter about one person. Surprisingly not Laurel. Or Tommy. I want Walter back. He added so much to this show. And frankly, his relationship with Thea is just wonderful and, IMO, necessary. It would be a magnificent storyline for him to return out of concern and love for Thea and have him and Malcolm clash over her. Although Malcolm would probably just kill him now that Moira isn't there. *sigh*

I also found the wording "this lady" to be very suspicious and thought Sara's killer might be an unknown female. But I'm watching "Year's End" and the first person the "black archer" kills, Adam Hunt, is killed by 3 black arrows to the chest/gut. So further indication, besides the promo pics with Nyssa taking Thea, etc., that the killer is Malcolm Merlyn. Maybe an old LoA grudge? Otherwise, not sure why he would want to kill her.

Kind of curious how the boxing training will prepare Laurel to be a vigilante. I'm sure it helps some...does Ted Grant have other skills I'm not aware of? I'm not familiar with the comic. I really loved the Oliver/Thea scenes. Those two have always had good chemistry. I agree that he should have told her everything though. And I have a problem with him telling her that their father was a great man, or whatever he said. Actually, he wasn't that great Oliver. He went out semi-okay and had good intentions with that list, but the rest of the time he was pretty sketchy. I didn't feel like the ARGUS scenes were too forced. I prefer episodes like this where everyone has something to do that basically fits with the a/b stories. I kind of prefer them to the one-character eps. Loved Felicity's index finger joke; didn't love that Oliver basically rolled his eyes and walked away from her. Last 2 seasons, that's the sort of line that would have at least got a reluctant smile which is one of the things that lightens the show. It just seemed a bit OOC especially when he was laughing with Digg and Roy a few minutes later. I just don't like the angst. You made a decision, Oliver, now accept it and treat Felicity the way you've always treated her. If you're disgruntled or rude because of a decision you made, you're not very likeable. I've liked Roy from the get go. I didn't think Colton was a very good actor, but the character was good for me. I'm glad, like someone pointed out, that Colton seems to have recognized the things that he's good at and is using them to Roy's advantage.

Personally, I think having Felicity just ride Laurel's jock like everyone else would be the worst form of female friendship. I have no interest in seeing someone who is generally a sweet, helpful person kowtow to someone who treats her like dirt most of the time and ignores her the rest. As a female, I pick and choose my friends carefully and distrust and distance myself from those that are not, at the very least, courteous and genuine. I didn't think Felicity even had a mean/rude tone on the phone with Laurel. To my ears, she sounded genuinely surprised that Laurel, of all people, would be calling her (for the 2nd ep in a row, mind you) to have Felicity do something for her. She wondered why this is happening as would I. KC was a bit better this episode. But I didn't like the writing in the AA meeting. At. All. How Mary Sue to be an alcoholic and experience your "beloved" sister's brutal murder and yet...she didn't even think of drinking! Not even tempted! Wow! She's amazing. And so going to an AA meeting to state that, basically made me feel like she was all 'Damn I'm strong! You people weak..." I won't get into the rest of her storyline in this ep except to agree that it was ridiculous and how dare she not tell Quentin about Sara when she had the perfect opportunity. I think she's not because then Daddy's focus would be shifted away from Laurel and her issues and back onto Sara and the pain of losing her. LOVED Thea/Mia! That girl rocks!! Diggle was amazingly awesome as usual and had some of the best lines of the episode too. Justice! Roy actually made me tear up a little when he was talking to Thea. I like that kid. Loved Felicity this episode and glad to see some recognition of her talents. I don't even care if she and Oliver work out romantically at this point, but I do feel that Oliver is still being a dick to her and I don't like it. Dick. I fear that this show is going to Vampire Diaries me. Make me pissed and disgusted from week to week and then give me just enough awesome to suck me back in again.

Thank you. So yeah, it's possible that he's feeling a little blindsided by the directions they're going.

I wonder if even Stephen feels a little blindsided by TIIC at this precipitious rush into The Rise of Laurel Lance (tm KC blech). The things that are coming out since they began filming certainly don't seem to follow what he'd been saying previously. Of course, I don't do timelines very well...how far into filming were they at SDCC?

I just got such a good visual of that. Thank you! I want now.

Oh joy. Laurel and Nyssa are matchy matchy! Maybe Nyssa respects single white female vibe.

Not to mention, that all that infrastructure ole' mullet head was talking about is more than likely gone by now. As someone else pointed out, DC is a densely populated area. And also, apparently Eugene thinks he was the only person on that project smart enough to think about heading to the lab or whatever and utilizing these resources? Eugene is an idiot. But smart enough to find a way to stay alive.

Maybe she thinks she's a "good-doer" because Laurel put up with Oliver's shit for so long. And of course soulmates. This character has never been written as "strong" in any way, shape, or form IMO. Even in S1:04 she tells Oliver "I made peace with your selfishness a long time ago. But Moira? Thea and Walter? They don't deserve that. They deserve better; someone who doesn't care only about himself." I don't know how much clearer one can state that they have zero self-esteem and strength without actually saying it. IMO strength would have been standing up for herself all those years when her soulmate was cheating on her, lying to her, etc. Strength would be knowing, after 5 long years, that this person is not good for her and doing her best to stay away from even thinking that they are soulmates. Just because you're in love doesn't mean it's meant to be or a healthy love.

I'm rewatching parts of S1 to get some of the bad taste of S3 out of my mouth and just had to comment on one of Diggle's lines in 1:03 that I had forgotten. At the auction: O: Got your eyes open? D: (Looks at O like the annoyance that he is) That's what I'm here for sir...that and answering your patronizing questions. I need MOAR of this.

Me too. It seems like it must have something to do with the "deep" per Carl slashes on the church. And I wonder what it has to do with those symbols that my beloved Morgan seemed to be following last week.

The only reason I think it may turn out badly for the Termites is that when you get bit , you get sick. There's obviously a stronger, activated virus once bit that differs from the one that everybody already has. So if you eat the flesh of a sick dude, you may also get that stronger, more active infection.

I think this scene would've come off a lot better if we'd seen Felicity and Laurel interact in the foundry a few times before it happened. Even though it's obviously not Laurel's first time going down there for Arrow business (she had the code, after all, and she did have Felicity's phone number), it is the first time we've seen her down there, outside of when she first found out Oliver's secret. So, since it's the first time we're seeing her interact with the team during team business, it's a bit jarring to hear her talking to Felicity like that, regardless of the reasons. I can see your point in the first post and I agree with the second post. However, again it's just bad writing. I know KC plays bitchy well, but I think it was some bad writing and acting choices. Did she have to order Felicity to meet her at Verdant the way she did? Couldn't she have said, "Can we see? Are their cameras?" Which leads me to my next problem with that scene. FFS is there a camera on every post in Starling? Pointing every which way? With zoom? When Laurel first told Felicity to bring it up on camera, for a split second I was waiting for Felicity to say something like, that's the best view we can get. For a show that wants to stay "grounded" they sure stretch the bounds of probability again, and again, and again.

I really like Sean and I liked his white dress last week and the designs this week. My mileage does vary I guess. Regarding Kini, that was harsh. Not that I disagreed with the judges, but he was so broken! I thought it was telling that he didn't have anything done when Tim came to visit. Creator's block, yes, and I think he was really overthinking instead of just having fun and going with his first instincts like he seemed to do all season. He's been one of my favorites. And apparently, he's not all wrong since there are several articles about denim being the trend for Spring 2015. Here is just one of them: http://news.instyle.com/2014/09/27/spring-2015-trend-alert-fresh-takes-on-denim/ I thought both Char and Amanda's were okay. The last maxi that Amanda sent out was almost exactly like the one she won with a few weeks ago. Except more polished and in different, darker colors. It worked better for me this week. Loved her jewelry. And agree with others that she has become far less grating personality wise. I liked several of Char's pieces, but it was definitely the most likely to be already seen in a mall. And thanks to someone for reminding me that I spent the first half of the episode wondering if this was some spin-off pilot for Tim Gunn: Come Tour With Me! eta: Cuz I can't type.

I think this is a fair question. For me, I didn't know diddily shit about KC, Laurel, or the Green Arrow. I like superhero things without having read all the comics so that's why I started watching. I actually didn't know anything about not even one of the cast. Laurel bugged me from the get go. And at first, I didn't even really associate it with KC. I mean, I did think she was not a good actor, but it's the CW after all. I didn't really expect good acting since the only thing I had ever watched on CW is TVD. (And no, I didn't even recognize Stephen from that. My daughter pointed it out and I had to go back and watch the eps for it to make a connection.) So for me, the character itself just doesn't work and they are completely clueless on how to fix this. This is what really pisses me off about this show. I felt that KC & Laurel reached levels of ridiculousness in S2 that made me start to actively dislike both. Now, I think KC has had some better scenes/acting choices, but the character of Laurel and the way she is being forced into everything is just completely infuriating to me. I certainly hope that if I ever see KC in anything else I won't hold Laurel against her. But I think it's so bad now after two years that I just might. And that's sad. The writers & KC's interviews, etc., have not helped her out either.

I know that if I was Felicity, after losing Sara, being bossed around in the worst way by Laurel, and especially after being talked over, criticized, and ignored by the guy who just acted like he was in love with me a few days before, I would have said worse and flipped him off on my way out the door. I thought he got off easy. I don't buy it about Oliver not grieving so that others can. The posts here about Felicity telling Oliver how to grieve and how dare she... Isn't that what Oliver did? He basically tells her to stop grieving because he needs her A game. Same thing as her disagreeing with his way of (not) grieving. And I guess that can put the end to the Mary Sue comments because a Mary Sue would never make such a mean comment to the hero, nor would she walk out to go work for the enemy.

These were things that I, in my Laurel-like ineffectual rage about this episode, neglected to mention. And the bolded parts are stated in a great way I hadn't really thought about or could articulate as well as you did. Kudos to you. This is why I love this forum. So many intelligent, thought provoking comments.

Well, I feel as sad as Oliver looked most of this damn episode. I tried to come into this ep open-minded, but the opening scene with Laurel just took me out for the duration. I, too, had the vision of Laurel trying to carry Sara to the lair and failing miserably. And then when she whined "It's just not fair!" I knew I didn't have a prayer of liking her. Stephen killed it, as did David Ramsey. KC actually was okay for the most part, but the way they shoehorned Laurel into the lair and had her bossing and barking at Felicity just was wrong. As someone else mentioned, I think Felicity was closer to Sara than Laurel. And what the hell about Sin?? Several times in the episode I was waiting for Roy to mention her or contact her...something! But of course fucking not. There really wasn't much that I actually liked. I surprised myself by liking the Ray Palmer stuff and thought EBR knocked it out of the park in all her scenes with him. But having Oliver be SUCH a fucking dick to Felicity after last week? Made absolutely no sense, even with Sara dying. That was bullshit. I did like the Roy and Felicity interactions, but it seems weird too. It really seemed forced. Oliver would have been more concerned about her than he ever showed. Not to mention Diggle, who has been shown to be very close to Felicity. But for the second week in a row, Diggle seems to care less about Felicity (when she was injured last week) and that is horrible writing. That episode just kind of ruined it for me. I want to like this show! I love Oliver, Felicity, Diggle, and Thea. I like Roy and Lance. I want to like Laurel. I'm kind of losing hope where I haven't before. *sigh* /rant eta: I hate Laurel's pantsuits. KC is gorgeous and has a great figure (now that she looks healthy again). Certainly they could find something lawyerly that is more flattering to her. I did like the colors though.

Thank you WB51! It's awesome to read your recap and opinions. Wish I could have been there too. :-)

I also had the thought about why would they have let her keep it; maybe they thought she wouldn't be able to do anything with it so it was a mockery to let her keep it. But they don't know our dear Michonne. BAMF And on my rewatch I paused at the moments Carol looked at the table and when she was picking up the crossbow, and I couldn't see anything that resembled the katana. Another thing: What are the comic book trio hiding? Is it that Sasquatch doesn't really have a cure? Or something else? I thought it was really suspect when the girl told Eugene he didn't have to tell them what the cure was (or that they didn't need to know, depending on whether she was talking to Eugene or Sasha). And then later when Abe told her that they would talk to them, but not now. It was also interesting how, the last shot of the trio was of only the trio. None of Camp Dinner Bell was in the picture. Setting them apart and separate from the group it seemed to me. And this makes perfect sense! haha