Featherhat

It would have been even more awkward if they hadn't even met him yet (funny how they did that storyline *right* before that happened, almost like they knew) but still AAF. And having to tell Rene JJ killed Zoe or decide to keep it a secret. I also think The Monitor thing will be cleared up, but it's actually good they're doing it, instead of Oliver blinding following and trusting that an incredibly shady character is doing what they said they are and has other's best interests at heart. I assume some of the future is definitely changing after or possibly even before COIE now. If they do change it I want them to have figured out a way to keep Felicity's ending intact if EBR isn't coming back.

First time actor/directors on the shows they usually work on are given a lot of help (that's definitely not a dig) but I think she did well and she could potentially turn in to one of those actors turned directors who make an actual job of it in the future, like Gregory Smith or Amanda Tapping and not just have it for vanity points.

I'm very here for a good William and Oliver scene, it definitely needed to happen before COIE, especially as we KNOW Mia is heavily involved in that. There was a lot left hanging between them. I wonder if he'll come out to his Dad in a way that it couldn't when he was 13 but the trouble he was getting in to was to do with his sexuality? BL is doing a really good job with William so it's nice he's included in the family reunion/drama. Mia and Oliver is clearly going to be a big thread, but I can see where that is going to a certain extent. I guess this is also where Oliver has acquired a big team from by ep 7. Going back to the spin off drama to process the cliffhanger which actually brings the two groups together right now. It seems it is a FTA spin off (set when is who's guess now especially if there's a reset in ep 6 and after COIE) with added Canaries and neither group is happy about that or acknowledging it. But FTA are in it, at least in the pilot and Kat still seems to be the star. I wonder what's drastically different to what she was originally promised beyond the obvious? I still think it will be picked up but I hope they solve any drama for their own sakes. It wouldn't be the first show to be pitched something and turn out drastically something else, LOT for example in both good and bad ways some of the actors have acknowledged.

Ok, so they all travelled back in time not just Mia. That explains things about the rest of the season that wouldn't have worked if it was just her. Good job because I enjoy the team but the actual storyline of Diggle Brothers 2.0 was wearing thin for me. RIP Zoe, but it won't be permanent. Thea and Talia being friends should be interesting if Nyssa ever rejoins them. Of screen because she's not coming back from that Hawaiian holiday just yet. SA is really on fire with bringing Oliver's feelings this season.

Does BL live tweet every week? It does seem like a big week for William, much more so than the previous two episodes.

"Bianca Scott" could always have been a code name for Sara Diggle if they did want to bring her back for the spin off either from a different Earth or timeline shenanigans. Aww Thea and Oliver reunited, they have so much to talk about, I'm glad WH was able to come back. Seems like their will be some double brother and sister themes tonight. Still madly curious about the big cliffhanger, especially whether it ends up being one of the young Queen sibling duo.

It's possible, but I don't think they're going to turn down Superman however it turns out unless network politics is involved and they're giving one of Arrow's final episodes to backdoor pilot. The CW has never failed to pick up an announced Arrowverse pilot and these were in production close together and planned for a while. Batwoman was on the schedule once she was announced for Elseworlds. I think they're both pencilled in for now, though that could change. Space certainly seems to be an issue though.

I don't think there's any chance of CS/KF moving to either of the new shows. The only possibility would be LOT and they don't really take characters from other shows at the moment when they have so many of their own. This show could certainly survive without Caitlin without much trouble but OTOH there's been no reason to get rid of her either. The show doesn't kill characters in the way Arrow does and DP doesn't want to leave. And up until recently she was one of only two female regulars. The writers especially seem to like writing for KF, even if they tend to find CS boring. I do think there are about 100 other ways I wish the KF story had gone. Caitlin apologising early on even if it wasn't her fault would have been good, and just coming up with a coherent storyline would have been great.

We were always going to get an update on the baby and it seems like that's a big basis for the show so it's probably an expanded version of that. Like the Oliver and Mia storyline would have happened anyway but it's also set up for the new show/pilot. I think it's highly likely both shows have already been picked up in pencil, like Batwoman was once they announced her participation in Elseworlds and the rest was just following the process. Unless something goes wrong behind the scenes with budget, actors or execs that is. It's just where the hell do they fit both in?

It would certainly make sense to introduce them earlier because of the literally 1000s of plot threads and so many characters who are apparently more than cameos. Like Oliver and Felicity's sudden need to get married/not married in COEX with much less going on. I thought it might be William now and Mia later given Mia's more likely to be needed in the future for JJ shenanigans and to connect with Connor. But she's more likely to cause "present tense" issue than William, need the lead up to being handed the GA mantle by her Dad and act as a stand in for Felicity. That said it could still be a completely different character and neither of his children who shows up. I really enjoy the sense of humour FTA show about this stuff, BL especially comes across as self depreciatively funny.

It's possible they will be announcing LOT is ending in January after COIE, but yes, why have BR and CF leave mid season if it was planned to be the last one anyway. The CW hasn't failed to pick up an announced spin off of the Arrowverse yet and it's likely that both Superman and Lois: The SuperCrazy Family and Green Arrow and The Canaries are both pencilled in for next season unless something goes very wrong with the pilots or the budget calculations. But I can see at least one of them going at mid season and maybe another show cutting down on ep orders.

I think it's going to be trick her or otherwise dissuade her. It seems too early for an Arrowverse "official rocky Love Interest" to know the secret even if she's knowing and not telling for several episodes and they aren't being exactly original with Sophie in other areas. But maybe they will surprise me.

So much for "just a couple of eps" CB. I guess he was in negotiations. I wonder if that means he's redeemed or changed via COIE or if they've got him set up as a ready made villain? Changed via COIE would play into JDJ's assertion that Connor changes sooo very much. Also again looking more likely that it's set in some version of 2041. Unless it's a complete merge with the present (and how would that even work?) that's a lot of 2040 characters to transport back in time.

We know that 2040 Team Arrow are reeling from the loss of one of their own in 8x04 and many presumed it was Zoe's death, but she appears to be in 8x09 (of course several places for that to be undone). We know that there is a death and it's not related to the shocking cliffhanger. So either there's a death in the future and a COIE related cliffhanger that has nothing to do with 2040 or there's a death in 2019 and someone disappears/leaves 2040 - presumably unbeknownst to them ends up in 2019? It could be to do with Thea but I have no idea what. If they kill her, I'd think they'd "Reset" it so she's alive post ep 6 or COIE. Very possibly Bronze Tiger death if it relates to Connor being adopted by the Diggles. He'd be a big enough one to make an impact. Oliver's looking very shocked in 8x04 with Jackass McVague Mission behind him...We know Oliver and Mia are spending at least part of COIE together and we don't know if William is around (but probably IS in it if Connor is?) so them being able to have a heart to heart for a couple of eps before a possible reset is good. That would fit with KM talking about Mia promising to protect William and a big shocking thing happening that shakes her, if he disappears because The Monitor saves him but everyone thinks he's dead and also allows the Mia/Connor thing to develop further as also said by both actors. However, if everything is building towards a GA Mia spin off then it makes sense to get her as much storyline with Oliver as possible and she's clearly a big character than William atm and that's potentially more COIE related. Also tonnes of opportunities for it to be a complete wildcard as well. Trying to think of who could be a big enough guest star to be OMG who hasn't been announced yet. My head hurts.

If it isn't Mia getting pulled into the present, I'm going to be disappointed now, having thought it was a wild theory at first. 😉 It could be William I suppose (if it's something like that) but Mia is a bigger bet. Trying to think of what else it could be that's a "bigger than E2 getting destroyed/Lyla" moment. Maybe one of the sites will spoil it again.

Yeah I figured because that icon has been floating around for one thing and it doesn't look like anything WB/CW produced, especially after the GA part of the working title was introduced. Not to mention nothing tweeted from any other account. I thought it was more continuation of contrasting promotion for this spin off. Neither "side" mentions the other. As for JJ. Sorry CB, I see him as a villain because he and his "gang" kill people in cold blood. He's probably had a lot of difficulty in his life and we'll be getting some Diggle family backstory starting this week but "people react differently?" No doubt, but some of those reactions are bringing a nuke to a family barbeque squabble. Is he hinting he might also be in the spin off or in the last ep? Speaking of the Diggles, whilst we've talked about the Connor adoption possibly being part of this ep aren't we supposed to find out how long Lyla has been Team Monitor this ep as well/instead of?

JH just posted this on her facebook: https://m.facebook.com/julianaharkavy/ Which I guess is fan made because I don't think that would be the title after the working title of GA and The Canaries. No mention of Green Arrow there.

Of course. That was 100% expected as is Barry's or a Barry's death. They've been telling us that all along, it was just a question of exactly how and if it will stick. They want the big heroic sacrifice, with his daughter there (and hopefully his son) and his friends continuing the fight in his honour and probably the Endgame style funeral with all the heroes lined up. It also fits in with 7x22 as you said. Then in Arrow it's revealed to be option C. Re: Being the ending MG/SA have talked about for years. It might be the Dark Knight style ending we've all been speculating on for years as well. Presumed death (crossover) revealed to be alive/ascended/other dimension (Series finale). That just got tweaked because it ties in so directly with COIE. Yeah, If I was the CW/BS I'd want them on the same page. I expect they will be when promoting the actual show but no one is bothering now, though they should. It's just funny that the tags AND pictures that they choose to highlight have nothing to do with each other. Of course we might be reading way too much into it. 😉 But it's hard not to see them highlighting even complete opposites on the current show. It's also possible that the pilot at least starts off in two different time periods and they just aren't filming together much so just tagging their own storylines, but again they're all social media savvy enough to come up with GA/BC tag together.

It would make more sense for Team Flash to have a personal reaction due to Harry and Jesse. I guess they want to build some big time stakes into it not "oops, a world was destroyed!" Star City 2040 could be when it's set, it could also be KM just hashtagging her interests in it, like KC just #Canaries and nothing to do with Mia. They clearly have very different ideas about what they want the show to be and it hasn't even been officially ordered yet. But it's still looking more like the future or some merged timeline than it was a few weeks ago. So the shocking COIE related things is not a death? Well it could be Mia in the past, that would qualify. In the ep 4 pics Oliver certainly looks shocked with the monitor standing right behind him and "Present Tense" is a good title for your baby/20 year old daughter with Daddy issues galore to time travel on your multiverse saving quest. But there are a load of other things that could be a big cliffhanger. Now I'm getting into the idea it definitely won't be what happens. 😉 Good that she and William will be getting some brother/sister time though. I wonder if the shocking death is Bronze Tiger since this ep will be dealing with the Diggles and Connor? That would qualify as shocking/semi big since he's been on the show since S1 and bonded with Oliver last season.

Maybe Oliver trusts him because he's a Jackass? If he was friendly and helpful that would be more suspicious. But even so, they should recognise enough that even if they think the Monitor ultimately needs to stop this Crisis, his version of that and priorities could be vastly different, even if they have accepted likely death.

That's some really good sideways thinking. It would definitely be shocking and the title is "Leap of Faith" which could point to that. That would certainly lead to a lot of time for Oliver/Mia yelling/bonding and not have it all crammed into COIE like they often do but would also severely limit FTA bonding which is what the FFs are supposed to be all about. Aren't we supposed to have some William and Mia and Mia/Connor stuff as well? But everyone in both timelines is going on about ep 4 so you'd think it would be something big or different and that would qualify. On this show. On LOT it would be a normal storyline. Even on The Flash. As for Willa only filming one episode, she was announced as recurring which should mean at least two, right? If she's only in ep 3 and dies or disappears but Roy is in more that's worrying. What's the point of killing Thea now, especially if the future is going to be changed and S7 Future!Roy might not exist. Unless she's "reset" in ep 6. But maybe Thea "Leaps" somewhere to save someone else?

SA keeps saying that Oliver believes Felicity when she said they would find each other again and they've put those moments in there. If they are going to completely ignore Felicity stepping through that portal, why put those in there, why put that scene in 7x22? There are many other ways she could have had a decent send off and they knew then roughly how COIE was going to end and they could have ended Arrow there. For me it all leads back to some kind of "death but not the end" of the various types we've talked about. But what the hell happens if even Connor changes sooooo muchhhh? I'm possibly just over thinking potential curve balls. As far as things they've talked about for years? Probably included but maybe not in the way they were originally thought of. Then again MG now claims they were thinking ahead to a COIE thing when they named Lyla. Which I can believe since Marvel had already done Avengers by that point, DCEU was desperately trying and crossovers and epic team ups were big business. Speaking of, it's possible the Diggles will become the cosmic adventure couple I suggested for Oliver and Felicity up thread. Although John is supposed to have sent Connor to Mia in the FFs that might be something else that gets changed. Hell it's possible they won't ever adopt Connor and that's why he's different.

All the endings I suggested I thought could be endings with "possibility". I'd personally hate the 3rd one because even if I posit he still meets Diggle, Felicity, Barry every other good force in his life, still has good relationship with Thea, Roy, Sara, Nyssa etc...…. And you shouldn't need to reset the whole damn show and chuck out what fans have watched for so many years to give the main character an ending with possibility. And it would mess with the spin off. Personally I'd pick any other ending than an Oliver choosing not to get on the Gambit, because it makes no sense, except as a lazy do over "happy" ending. But it might fit with SA's "there's logistics involved with the final scene". And everything Oliver's worked for all season in terms of his family is all gone as well. I think there are going to be some Flashpoint like changes, which for me, really you spent 30 eps on Connor as is, you want to change him now? And 7 years of canon wiped out is a really, really irritating prospect. Ep 6 is "reset" with "different storytelling techniques" so it seems like that is going to reset things leading up to COIE, is it going to continuously mess around with what is and what isn't real or what actually happened. Like if Zoe (or William) gets killed in ep 3 but brought back in ep 6 or they reset what happened with Thea and Roy. But again, I really don't want them to throw away 7 seasons of the show, it just seems really pointless but I think it's a possible theory.

I'm not sure this follows, it was specifically the timeline where Oliver "died"in 2019 not 2024 in 7x22 because we saw his tomb stone. Why would the Monitor be taking Felicity "where she can't return from" if it was before Crisis got rejiggled and why is that timeline still continuing this season after Crisis has now been moved up 5 years? I don't really expect anything about it to make sense though. It doesn't on LOT most of the time. It's just frustrating if it changes characters and situations we've seen develop over 7 years and especially what's the point of the new baby team if they're all drastically different in the spin off? As for the finale episode? More of a gentle title than it might have been and Arrow has used up a lot of potential finale titles. As for the final description sentence? 1) Oliver (or Oliver and Felicity) surveying afterlife/pocket dimension/ascended realm contentedly. 2) Oliver POV on seeing Felicity come through the portal. 3) Oliver transported to a time/place before the Gambit so he can start over but with all his memory intact so he can't make those choices (less likely with spin off) 4) Others thinking about Oliver's legacy and what he gave them before starting their next journeys. 5) Start of Oliver (or Oliver and Felicity) more multiverse/cosmic adventures spread out before them. 6) Something entirely different.

Aw, I do miss Rip, even completely disckish, completely lying Rip (which is most Rips). I liked Rip recruiting the group by knocking them out and kidnapping (Wally you got lucky), but first time around I was really annoyed Ray got Oliver to send him off and Sara only got Laurel not Oliver or Quentin. Because that sparing and "Cisco made you a White Canary Outfit" scene never made any sense to me. But at least they were getting on for once the last time they were together before Sara died. I did like Sara being collected out of a bar in Tibet (close to NP?) having saved a woman. Rip's "I'm from East London!" terrible thankfully brief attempt at an accent. Stein kidnapping Jax has a lot more meaning to it now if you think Martin knew he was going to travel on the Waverider and that Jax forgave him and tried to do similar things for him. Him not remembering Ray from MIT is still funny and I remember it was one of the first times I felt sorry for Ray after S3. "Okay but I'd be lying" when asked about his suit when running back to the ship. And "Actually it's Dr. Palmer" Aww, Early Legends Ray. I think the "secret kid" plot was the only storyline I really liked for the Hawks, the actor did really well. The rest of the ep did nothing to change the unfavourable opinion of them and Vandal Savage I'd had since that year's crossover. Aww to the team deciding to change their destinies and do the mission anyway despite Rip's lying and manipulating. Well all of them have done so far. ETA to add I do miss Snart from the show a lot. I liked Leo's brief eps but OG Snart was great. And him and Sara bonding and the beginning of his crush on her. Not that it's hard to fall at least half in love with Sara.