Featherhat

Yes this. I think there is probably still a bit of wiggle room if they wanted to go another way and try and explain some of the changes via COIE or implanted memories but she probably does know she's Mirror Iris. As you said she's purposely gaslighting him with yes the valid points instead of reassuring him she's fine or talking it through. Though her endgame might not be completely wrong or evil. Well if she was two people they could have sent Caitlin off with Cisco and had Frost hang around without worrying about Caitlin's consent for anything. Or have her off working on an experiment like Ralph's case. The stuff about consent and relationships is probably the most interesting thing left about the character so the won't explore that. Since she's just "Frost" and redeemed now they'll say it's cool Caitlin is fine having a rest or whatever. They could use COIE to bring a version of her Ronnie in a different body or a different version of Firestorm that understands being two different people in one body for a storyline next season. Like so many characters in this 'verse...Sigh. They aren't good when they want the actor to stay around but the character doesn't logically fit anywhere. And many "redemptions" are …..lacking.

If they can't even show "fade to black" then they probably won't want to deal with the fact that Barry is (probably!) having sex with someone else. Though they could have a talk about feelings of betrayal without being specific and not brush everything under the carpet. I actually liked Siri despite the fact that she's extremely good at being manipulative with an unknown endgame. They could incorporate some of her into Real!Iris's characterisation to show that they aren't so far off, and she really is a force to be reckoned with in her own right in little snippets that we see anyway. And she really would have had to prepare herself for life without Barry if only they had bothered to show it. She's more like Iris if she wasn't constantly making sure Barry and everyone else was okay first and had an onscreen voice and stuff that isn't about only being a LI. Though it does suck that the biggest WestAllen episode for a long time had a fake Iris in it and Real Iris was trapped and trying to get out. And will suck if this storyline is the most CP is getting. Gah, Frog Eating Clone Arc! This is much more subtle and hopefully won't go on for so many episodes. That got quite sad at the end though, IIRC when the clone found out she was only going to live for a couple of weeks etc. And lets hope they don't go full on with amnesia afterwards. I like Harry much more than Nash so I'm interested in what's going on there but it seems pretty much filler for TC. Speaking of.....Yeah KF and Allegra bonding, She really is a Real Girl now at least two more women on the show got to have a conversation with each other. They can't think of much to do with KF and I suppose DP is limited in a lot of stuff as well. They really should just merge them if KF's just going to be hanging out whilst Caitlin is what napping for days at a time or something?

I know the show used the word "afterlife" but I'm surprised more of these comic focused sites aren't going with a paradise dimension as that fits with the COIE books. Pretty sure anyone associated with the show has said Oliver's only "Spectre Dead" and very much available for guest staring in your crossovers, possible spin off, Flash episode (please no) as soon as SA is willing or enough time has passed to make an impact.

I love this episode. It had a lot of goodness in it including the Count and his craziness and a good way of getting the Vertigo around the city in the flu vaccine. "Quiet Please, I'm Threatening!" Seth Gabel was so good. Oliver breaking his no kill rule for Felicity, Oliver saying there was no choice to make. Oliver pointing out that his mother most definitely should have been convicted and the Malcolm shenanigans therein - oh when I was still interested in Malcolm craziness, a long time ago. Oliver grabbing Sara in the FBs and Celina Jade's amazing look of disgust when she realises Oliver was having an affair with his picture's sister. She ever really had much of a POV after that but Oliver was definitely dumped. Sigh, I know they addressed it a little but Laurel should never have been anywhere near that case. Both sides would have wanted her nowhere near The DA's office because she might feel loyalty to the Queens and do what she did, The defence because of Oliver's treatment of her and the Sara issue. It just bugs me. But I know they have to have her involved if there's a legal storyline on the show because otherwise she has no storyline. Even the scene where Laurel says he must hate her, (after previously saying she was just doing her job and being abrasive about getting his mother life instead of the death penalty) just annoyed me.

I forgot about that one but they had a big Argo storyline and Laura Benanti wasn't available and she had more impact as Astra anyway. I know they were identical twins but still. With Helena it doesn't seem like they ever had a story they needed to tell with her that would make recasting worth it. They wanted JdG if she was available but made do with "Cousin Jerry" when she wasn't. I just saw that. Who knows? LOT has wrapped so it's not that, could be The Flash or maybe just hanging out with friends now she's single. These actors have pulled off some quick appearances all over before ending up in Vancouver though. We'll see.

How is that going to make a difference? It was already Harley Quinn and her Back Up Band in the marketing, which could barely care less that these are also big DC characters in their own right. I mean it's less wacky than the original title maybe they think that was a problem? Like "Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets" was apparently too confusing/convoluted? I'm going to see this tomorrow, I'm glad people are enjoying it and it seems fun. Even though I like Harley and Margot well enough, I'm going to see it *despite* the overload of her on the marketing, which was an issue for me but I doubt it hurt the film that much.

Could just be GG wasn't shooting the couple of days the photographer wasn't on set. A lot of the time the CW misses out entire (big) plots. But yes, he does appear to be more in the background than usual. Set photographers and official photoshoots do seem to be entirely separate things and in this case we don't even know if Ralph suits up in this episode for HS to be able to pose as a timing /production issue. Easy/cheap to have them do an unofficial couple promo pose right there and then. Doesn't really explain why they don't do it with all couples though. I guess they're excited about Ralph's big love story because they've been teasing it a while.

If you believe rumours they realised as early as the pilot they had a problem on their hands. But that's why I was curious they cut this out of ep 2, it would have shown some actual awareness of who Oliver was, even if she didn't realise he must have had a good reason for such an abrupt switch to drunken clown. Unless it was something that used to happen regularly with them. By the time they were editing this they already had footage from ep 3 and Felicity and were putting her into the narrative right away so they already did have an alternative both in potential love interest (at least for a brief romance if nothing else) and to bring down to the foundry mid season. So many Lauriver scenes ended up on the cutting room floor that it had to be a deliberate choice, but none of them really make me think "Oh they should have kept it in" because they're all more of the same we got anyway, except this one.

The shows don't really like to recast unless it was literally just a scene like Jacqueline McInnes Wood as Sara in the pilot. They didn't even recast Mari when they could have for LOT and really could have done with using the character in S3 and she was only featured once on a different show ,so I can see why they didn't with Helena who made quite a splash. The new costume's ok, I see what you mean about the mini cape thing, doesn't really work for me. The Spin off might be doing some reshoots or something so that could be why KC is in town.

I wonder why they cut this one? I've gone back and looked at it and whilst it wasn't brilliant, Laurel had a right to be pissed off if she knew Oliver was faking it but not why. But it is supposed to show that she knows him better than anyone, including Moira which is what they were trying to establish in early S1. It would have represented her 3rd abrupt swing in feelings for Oliver in one episode though and again KC doesn't play any layers and the writing really doesn't help her out in realising Oliver probably has a reason to go from sensitive and grown up to drunken jackass in a few hours, unlike his mother. Moira comes off as a loving mother here despite being humiliated and upset. And shock-realising you can't stuff him into a business suit 2 minutes after he got back from a "deserted island". ST was so good at this.

To be honest I'd entirely forgotten about Barry/Patty. I was just thinking of Avalance's date that got interrupted by the Waverider crashing or Olicity's dates or Cisco being really, really late to his date with Kamilla or recently with Kate and Reagan. Or the very awkward "double date" with Barry, Iris, Linda and Eddie or later with Felicity and Ray. The double date with Felicity being interrupted by Cold making his move etc etc. Just a mild observation that the shows tend not to put dates in unless something's going to happen to ruin them. KS seems to be having fun as Amunet but part of the reason I find her awkward is that she definitely seems to be "KS having fun as Amunet" on screen and it just makes me wince a little.

Mirror Iris missed a trick there "oh I've been able to speak it for years in this timeline Barry you just didn't get those memories from J'onn." I don't expect she'll be able to deceive him for very long this show moves things along quickly. Looks good though and a chance for CP to stretch herself a bit. Couples in this verse don't get to have a date night unless it is very quickly interrupted by something/one. Still not a fan of Amunet.

I swear in S3 they said we were going to get Sydney and nope. They only briefly mentioned him during Phone Home and he's supposed to be Ray's twin. Probably not getting it now sadly. Caity was pretty busy in this period it seems. It probably will be an Ava centric episode since that's what we've had so far but I'm hoping for a lot of Zari. I've kind of given up on getting much Ray until his leaving arc kicks in.

I watched it knowing nothing about it beyond the basic premise and the fact that they've been trying to get in on TV for years in several different iterations. I liked it well enough for a pilot. It's always nice to see an Ashmore and I often like Darby Sanchfield. The kids were all decent enough in their roles. I really think Bode should have been more freaked out by his "echo" than he appeared to be and certainly much more inquisitive about how/why she was stuck in the well in the first place. It didn't take him long to start finding out important keys. I liked the house. I guess the family is the rich/infamous family in town and that's why everyone knows who they are and talk about "The Locke Girl" as if she's potential in crowd party material without ever having met her. And their father's really shitty death.

I actually went back and rewatched this ep a couple of days ago on my S1 rewatch and you're right I remember Laurel being in it a lot more. Maybe because she and Lauriver hang heavily between Oliver and Diggle and Oliver and Tommy. Poor Tommy so convinced Laurel was going to dump him the second she found out Oliver was the Hood. Hell in this timeline she was planning on getting back together with Oliver without knowing he was the Hood only a week after you're funeral dude. I enjoyed his fury at Oliver in this ep though, some good acting from CD. Moira showing Mom skills with the newly orphaned kid that aren't about paying off store owners, police, judges, and baby mamas and kidnapping people. This had a really good, creepy one off villain (Hi Gunn) and a great fight scene in the Queen Mansion. "What happened to you on that Island?" "You're about to find out!" Poker! And Lance being suspicious that people so often seem to end up dead in Oliver's vicinity. The Diggle and Lyla (and Oliver) situation has a lot more depth when you know they're currently divorced and not yet back together. I wonder if they already had the exes backstory worked out BTS? Felicity and the super secret hair dye conversation, aww sweet S1 Felicity. Love Dig and Felicity shading Oliver's sudden need to have lunches with Laurel. We never saw this start to happen and in hind sight it's them skipping the plot forward by a few seasons because they need to get them in a place to have sex before the end of S1 instead of the originally planned S3ish and kill the ship.

The Merlyn Job is still one of my favourite Team Arrow capers. It was perfectly executed was very funny and had a lot of dramatic tension. I love that Thea and Roy were absolutely on the right track with the idea that the Hood might be wondering around the MG building. And Oliver calls himself a dangerous psychopath.... I think it was in the Watchover podcast that Jen or Calli says that Olicity had one of their most openly shippy scenes in the episode where Lauriver have their sex scene and that all anyone remembers from that is Tommy's heartbroken face. 😭

I love this because he's trying to intimate her by invading her personal space and the innuendo but she's having none of it and up and quits, even though they both know she finds him attractive. And also because in spite of Oliver being an ass it is all kinds of hot as well.

It's that scene and the one before it in ep 8 after Oliver says he "napalmed" his relationship with the "right girl (Laurel" and Dig says when you meet the right person you'll be ready for her CUT to Felicity that makes people think they started planning Olicity pretty much as soon as EBR joined the show as a serious contender, if not definitely switching their end game. I mean look at that scene with the rain and the lighting and music. It's very intimately shot and Felicity is taking a risk showing the notebook to Oliver and unknowingly blowing a hole in his world. She doesn't fall for his "playboy Oliver Queen" persona and he drops it and starts getting real with her. And it's the start of Felicity semi knowingly getting deliberately into Team Arrow territory.

Ava has always been able to feel very human emotions. She was absolutely devastated when she found out she was a clone, devastated when Sara broke up with her because she herself was on an "I'm a monster" kick. She knew she wasn't "the marrying kind" in the beebo ep and had previous girlfriends. She knows how to be human when it's her storyline. Last week she suffered from the very human emotion of jealousy and lack of knowing what to do to comfort a grieving loved one. It just stuck a jarring cord for me even if it was supposed to be funny as well. I hated how Arrow reacted to Sara's death primarily because to me it was all about Laurel and her DESTINY. I was furious that Sara and her mask literally fell at her feet. Oliver started out from her death but went off on a different tangent when Malcolm got involved. Laurel was the one single white female-ing her sister, impersonating her to her Dad which was beyond cruel and getting told she had a light Sara never had 🤬. Sorry rant for another forum. It just seems since last season 85% of their relationship has been from her POV and Sara's issues are brushed more to the side or she has to prove herself worthy of Ava. This ep she was all about making sure Ava wasn't humiliated by the reality of her awesome singing, which wasn't even a big deal in the grand scheme of LOT embarrassments and just drew a parallel. Not all the time but *shrug* last week just didn't help a relationship I've always been iffy on since it went from hair up *antagonist* to hair down "it's on!" Ava can be an interesting character and Jes is a good actress but.... Like @Starfish35 I have never been a big fan of Nate until he started to "adult" with Ava and his Dad at the Bureau last season that was good for both their characters. Or at the very end of the Amaya arc. Still frustrated his entrance took the wind out of AtomWave bromance.

It's that kind of scene that put a lot of people off Laurel in the pilot, together with the Oliver mess. She had an absolute right to not want to watch it and especially not to want to deal with an alive Oliver and be in turmoil but it would have been more effective if she'd just fled the building.

Crisis moving forward by five years changed the timeline so that Nora doesn't exist for now. They used her to do a kid from the future plot without having to commit to a pregnancy timeline. Or one kid or twins etc. What most frustrated me about that storyline was Dig saying "Oliver learned life wasn't all about the mission too late." He'd retired to a cabin in the woods and was with his wife and 2 month old when The Monitor came to collect on his deal. He tried to retire several times before that. And the next sentence Dig actually points out Oliver died so everyone (EVERYONE) else could live.

Guggenheim still has a lot of bosses and doesn't come up with the storyline for the crossover. Berlanti is often the one who comes up with a lot of key points. Sara won't be in charge (or Barry or Kara or Clark) unless everyone higher than him agrees, even if he is show running. Most of the shows write their own characters the best and apart from a couple of switches (Supergirl and Flash COEX) it's always been very obvious which show/writing staff is which episode in the crossovers.

Loved Jitter waitress to start with like "seriously we *just* opened, no money dirt for brains!" The new opening was good, I think that more shows are going back to longer sequences. Cisco should definitely remember both timeslines since he isn't a paragon and presumably got his memories back from J'onn. And then instantly made something to give everyone else dual memories for storyline and practical purposes. Yeah, even with the SP I was certain it was going to be a goodbye/remember me sentimental gift, he's sappier than anyone, even in S1 of Arrow, he just hides it better than others. Dig should definitely know that but then we wouldn't have a side adventure for them. It was ok, not fantastic but ok filler for GG. I l enjoyed that Dig came prepared with anti nausea pills. Speaking of "Flash Stops Crisis" is a very...….incomplete headline. Team Citizen was good though and it is nice to see so many female characters interacting on this show. I like that they're being positioned as something allied to but separate from Team Flash. All the "reporter's drive!" and "a reporters territory not a RICO investigation" was a little heavy handed and outdated but I'm here for it. Yay Iris has a big storyline, a POV and agency! Wow. And they "explained" why she had absolutely none of these when her husband was about to die. And I agree with everyone that ending was really creepy. The Blackhole set up is interesting so far. And Iris and Joe and yes you need plans A-Z when confronting a big powerful corporation let alone one with extra supervillainy to hide.

Pretty good episode. Zari makes things better even if it's not the Zari I love the most. I'm glad she's more than just a vapid insta star though and TA is always a delight. And she's back on board! SOooo glad we got to that quickly. We also got confirmation that Zari and Behrad are Iranian American not Egyptian, not surprising given both actors. Way to go Nate talking about the big family secret at dinner, professor. Still enjoying Behrad. I knew that cop was going to be dirty once they paired him up with shiny Ray at his straightest. He tried to one up him though. "Forget it Ray, it's Burbank" lot of meta in there. Good use of Jeannie Hill paired with Constantine and not surprised about any of the Astra stuff or that she's going to be John's season long project. If MM and DD can be redeemed, she can too. MR is really game at throwing himself into gobbledegook phrases and accompanying actions. Well they don't claim to be heroes, they're Legends. 😉 In all seriousness I agree but I can't totally blame John because she was a 10 year old girl who got sucked into hell because of him on his show and it's his and the rest of the Newcastle Gang's fault. Plus where would we be if Our Heroes and big bads started really trying to kill each other in episode 2. I do like Ava sometimes but I'm really tired about everything being about her issues, even though obviously it's not fun to be a Type A and suddenly have your whole life cut loose. She and Mick were a good pair but I wish they'd give DP something more to do. I loved that she wasn't actually awesome up on stage but was having fun drunkenly singing and contributing to the mission. Sara looked great in her 40s get up but I wish she had more to do. Was this affected by crossover filming? Boo no Charlie but I think she's back next week.

New sneak peak. Cisco essentially explains the rest of the season to KF. https://tvline.com/2020/02/04/the-flash-season-6-episode-10-video-cisco-explains-post-crisis-universe/ ETA Barry, Iris and Diggle: https://www.spoilertv.com/2020/01/the-flash-episode-610-marathon-promo.html Though I do disagree somewhat. Oliver could be the sappiest person in the multi verse sometimes. Though it's true it wasn't often directed at Barry.