Featherhat
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15 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:
'll be interested to see if they take more of a soap opera approach to the story-telling in Season 2, as opposed to a romance novel approach. By that, I mean that in romance novel series, while you will see couples that were in one book appear in another book, usually they are happy and their conflicts behind them. So Daphne and Simon appear in the other Bridgerton books, but at that point they are happy and we don't hear that they have any other issues. But in soaps, once the couple gets together, they'll still have issues and conflicts that impact their marriage. I'm just wondering which direction they'll choose - I assume season 2 is going to focus on Anthony and Kate (I'm assuming they'll keep that basic story, and if not, I'd be disappointed) and I also assume we'll see Daphne and Simon but I'm just not sure if we'll see more of their marriage in depth.
They could possibly draw out some of the "Second Epilogue" stuff. I haven't reread them since watching the show but whilst they're short there's a bit there to expand. Although some of Daphne and Simon's can't be done until/if Penelope and Colin are married IIRC. They can't really do the three girls and waiting for a boy potential storylines and all the issues that brings up emotionally and practically because they've already had a boy.
If I had to guess there might be some issues pre baby just to keep them in the story and not loose the actors to other high profile projects but not true Soap Opera as they already showed the HEA. E.g. If RJP wanted to leave I don't think they'd dramatically kill him off and launch a who will Daphne marry now?" arc that took up the rest of the show ala Downton.
Kate and Anthony have IMHO the best book to draw from and lots of stuff happening in it emotionally and physically with a strong supporting cast as well as everything they set up for other characters this season. I don't think they need extra drama from D/S even though I also do wonder how they're going to keep the "romance novel" nature and structure of everything that they clearly wanted to *this* season long term as many potentially popular characters/actors just fade out of the story.
They could also tease out bits that happened BTS in future books again like Marina this season. The dates don't quite match up (1814 vs 1815) book wise but they could have Benedict meet Sophie at the ball assuming they're going with that couple and fit in into whatever exploration of his life or sexuality they may or may not continue with.
If they keep the same storyline for Eloise and Phillip then it's going to be inherently more soapy than it was in the books, because of Marina and the twins being his brother's biologically speaking, especially we get a storyline about their marriage or even an update on how they're doing before that. But that's assuming they even get there following the 1 season per book format or whether they combine a couple and many other things.
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8 hours ago, shapeshifter said:
Not being terribly familiar with the genre of romance novels, I ask:
Is it generally acceptable to the readers of romance novels to make up rules for marriage between classes and between commoners and royalty for such a novel so long as those rules are adhered to within the novel just as, say, in scifi, it's okay to be able to travel FTL (faster than the speed of light) so long as the results are consistent (e.g., either time travel is involved or it's not)?It really depends on the book. Some writers try to get things as "historically accurate" (as far as we can tell) as possible and if they introduce say a big class difference then explore it thoroughly. Others do explore it and use it for drama but don't let the real life rules and potential shunning afterwards affect the outcome. The same applies to sex.
Others don't care and will have a duke falling in love with the maid and an off hand comment about how he doesn't care about what society thinks because he's rich and powerful.
As @eleanorofaquitaine said royalty are generally not involved and especially not as the Hero/Heroine. Quinn does bring in a Russian Prince in the same role in a different series but whilst the arcane rules about Russian court life are mentioned the fact that she's an Earl's daughter and not a princess isn't a factor.
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On 1/8/2021 at 2:03 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:
The prince here though was a German prince. If he was seriously considering marrying Daphne, then he was most likely a younger son. He spent much of his youth and was educated in England which further supports this. Those minor German princes were not that wealthy and needed the money Daphne could bring.
Many German "noble/royal" families still insist on "equal marriages" for their children today, even though the ranks have been legally abolished. Because the House Rules haven't been updated in 100 years and dictate who can inherit everything.
Queen Mary aka May of Teck a hundred years late was considered a poor relation by some because her father was the son of a morganatic marriage to a mere Countess, even though her mother was a British princess. A Viscount's daughter would be well below even a second son Princeling's station, especially the Queen's nephew or close cousin. Britain never had morganatic marriage though and if you were married that was that despite gossip.
I think it definitely worked as a plot point for this non realistic show though and has been used in many romance novels.
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On 1/5/2021 at 6:52 PM, Unraveled said:
I've been re-reading the books to compare to the series. I was up to Benedict's book when I binged the series. I should have read Colin's too.
I find the the biggest change in the characterization of Nigel Berbooke. In the book, he's a sweet, bumbling idiot. He's in love with Daphne because she's the only woman who's nice to him. In the series, he's basically a predatory rapist. He was willing to compromise Daphne to force a marriage. He knocked up one of his household's staff and sent her away. In the later books (I'm reading Colin's right now), he ends up marrying one of the two older Featheringtons (who aren't that brilliant either).
I think they needed a villain to give some extra drama to Daphne and Simon's story. Otherwise it's just two people who like each other and would work well together within the context of the early story but don't get together for reasons that can't be easily revealed until they're already married in Regency society. It goes along with the drama of Diamond to Outcast for Daphne whereas in the book she too was just a nice girl who was overlooked.
I expect this *is* one change the show will make. In the books he was a fool but harmless and so perfect to get a named but also foolish but harmless throwaway character. But I don't want either of the other older Featherington girls to end up with him.
4 hours ago, bijoux said:This post in the cast thread first made me laugh. But then it also made me realize I have an easier time imagining Polly Walker's Portia saying that than talking about "bubbies" when she, Violet and Mary come upon Kate and Anthony. Frankly, it only makes me anticipate the scene more to see how they'll write it.
It's going to be glorious. I just hope this Violet is able to rise to the occasion as well. Interestingly it's also a big clue that Penelope is LW because she comments in the column that Mrs F couldn't be drawn on the gossip and must have been threatened by Anthony.
Speaking of, I also hope we see more of Edwina and Mr Bagwell rather than him just appearing later on ala Edwina mentioning it to Kate second hand. I kind of assume we will since that should be easy enough to flesh out and a no brainer for a secondary romance/meeting at the country house party. Especially if they also have library scenes.
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So I've started watching S2 and I'm enjoying it but I can't really get into Matthew/Diana this season. I love the setting and the costumes are amazing but the interplay between them comes off as dull in a way it didn't last season, even if it didn't set the world on fire. I like both actors individually.
SpoilerI'd watch her with Goody Allsop all day though. I'm glad Aisling Loftus is pulling double duty as Mistress Norman. I'm on episode 4 and I'm much more interested in watching Marcus/Pheobe flirt, watch Ysabel, Sarah and Emily spar, Domenico fail to intimidate anyone and what it means for Sophie/Nate/Agatha when the baby is born than anything else.
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In May Pedowitz was saying it was still a possibility but that was long after the start of the pandemic and the actors were out promoting the DVD etc. Shrug. Sucks for everyone to have people keep asking about it and not be able to just say it's not happening. I'm sure Kat will be fine from a work stand point.
It may have been picked up if it wasn't for COVID but it doesn't seem to have been on their priority list before that either. Oh well. I'm not sad that it ends with Oliver (baring potential comics and guest appearances) and glad I don't have to wonder if they'd have Mia say she's closer to one of them than her mother now in an Auntie or something similar. That would be annoying.
It does grate my cheese that they had William forever kidnapped as a cliffhanger. And then didn't even sign BL.
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Not at all surprising. It's been dead for a while but at least it's confirmation. Interesting that apparently the 100 spin off is still in contention for pick up though.
I would have watched but I can't say they hybrid nature really appealed to me and the fact that FTA weren't going to be regulars, or at least hadn't been contracted yet really soured me.
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With Eloise's book I do like stories with a hero who isn't a rake or "fake rake" and I also like marriages of convenience that work out to love so it worked for me in those regards but it's not the strongest book in the series.
I wouldn't mind if they changed it and had a happier ending for Marina and Philip (if they get that far) and a less conventional one for Eloise.
It wouldn't be particularly unusual in family sagas that take place over a number of years to have some characters die and others to marry their widow or widowers. But it is a pretty shitty ending for Marina.
The only book I hope they keep completely intact is Anthony/Kate with Edwina and Mary. I didn't like Violet much in the series compared to her book counterpart so I hope Mary is still recognisably her fantastic mother/stepmother self.
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Bernadette Banner is also a good one if you want to fall down a historical fashion vlog hole. A few Regency ones, including "how did they pee in that thing?!"
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41 minutes ago, DearEvette said:
Assuming they get that far and given what they've made canon for the tv version, I think they'd have to really re-think some elements of Eloise's book for adaptation. Tv Eloise is very different from book Eloise. In the book, Marina is a Bridgerton cousin and Eloise sends a letter of condolence to Sir Phillip after Marina's death which then starts a correspondence with him. Also Eloise is really feeling her spinsterhood and is desperate to get married.
None of that tracks with tv Eloise, so unless they make her a lot more conventional over the next seasons, then it would be really OOC for tv Eloise. Als the lion's share of her book takes place at Sir Phillips' estate with her brothers showing up in various places. It doesn't allow for the variety and fun of the London season and the entire family and other side stories, like this one. Unless they decide to do a house party or something, which again, doesn't exist in the books and would be anathema to Sir Phillip because he just wants to germinate plants or some such.
I think they will have to do some rethinking somewhere along the line. As I've said before, pre watching I thought they would change a lot more things up with romantic pairings and in the early episodes as well. After watching it all I think the current/original plan is to keep the main book pairings intact. They used Marina instead of an original character but switched her over the the Featheringtons so she isn't potentially marrying her cousin's husband and introduced Philip as a good man. And have a potential for witty, modern heroine/stick in the mud opposites thing.
Eloise was definitely feeling a bit desperate but that's after 10 years on the marriage mart and especially after Penelope gets married. Before that she turned down eight proposals, albeit because she wanted true love not because she wanted something different from her life like this series and nor was Marina a person we knew. Leaving aside potential treatment of a WOC by the narrative for the moment because I don't think the series really considered that in S1 for the relationship drama and that also might change things in later seasons but we don't know yet: that might mean they think we'll be sad that someone we knew has died and have more invested in the story or that they won't go there at all. If they want to follow Marina and her marriage for a season or two more then it maybe reduces the chances of Eloise/Philip happening as well although that has never stopped a Shonda show before.
Theoretically if they get that far they'll do a time jump and like all TV time jumps life hasn't turned out so great for Eloise (wherever she was left off) and now she's in a slump and writes her condolences to Philip because she remembers everything that went on with Marina.
Maybe they could combine Francesca and Eloise? Or by that time they'll have a lot of other characters to follow in London? Most book characters who have their HEAs actually like to spend a lot of time at their country estates/cottages so there could be lots of visits and country house porn.
If they don't even think they'll make it to book 5 and won't combine her book story with anyone else's before then they can pretty much do anything with her including being single or a queer romance or deliberately leaving it up in the air.
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22 minutes ago, ursula said:
I also think Penelope really just liked Marina and was happy for her. That she got to piss off her mom and sisters in the process was an added bonus.
What I find more interesting is what this shows about Penelope's feelings about Daphne. She could easily have talked up Marina without the digs and snide comments about Daphne. Did she share Eloise's resentment towards Daphne for being "perfect" and was secretly happy to see her knocked down a notch?
I agree LW's feelings about Daphne are a lot cloudier in the TV series. The writers set up this Diamond to fall from grace that simply wasn't there in the books where Daphne is just a nice, average girl and LW liked her and only made a couple of comments about "the horror" for her mother if Daphne fails to secure a match on her 3rd season. They needed LW to help drive the upped stakes of the drama to stretch out the slim book for 8 hours. She could have been leaning into Eloise's resentment of her but it doesn't help Eloise if Daphne fails to marry someone or is married off to Berbrooke. Lady B isn't forcing Eloise out against her will so there's no need to keep Daphne unmarried to "protect" Eloise from her turn and if she's in a bad marriage that would make her sister even more unhappy. She started off the column being very complimentary though and whilst LW fanned the flames Marina was already taking the shine off her along with Anthony's meddling.
I honestly think the writers probably weren't writing LW with what it means for Penelope in mind until the last episode, even though they knew they wanted to expose her as the dramatic gotcha. I think she was supposed to be sincere in her relationships with Marina, Eloise and everyone else. Just that that doesn't jive with her writing a often capricious gossip column.
I might be wrong but I don't think it's going to turn out that she's been deliberately hurting or playing people, strange as that may seem from the ending. And I do think we're going to see her suffer consequences.
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29 minutes ago, RachelKM said:
Yes. Penelope is definitely hiding her motives and, at least in some ways, lying to everyone. Some of her actions may be sincere as they are not incompatible what we do know. But we will just have to wait to see what they do going forward now that they've outed Lady W.
An advantageous marriage could benefit Marina's relatives, if she chose to promote them (which is party of the implications of telling Lady F to consider it, that she intended to aid them).
But merely commenting on Marina emergence as an incomparable, wouldn't have much to do with Penelope or her sisters in and of itself. And, since Penelope didn't even wish to be out that year, would have little advantage for her personally.
To be honest LW agreeing and promoting the idea that Marina was an incomparable and the diamond only really served to make the Featherington girls seem more ridiculous especially as she kept going after her mother. And it wasn't shown that the crowd of suitors turned around to look at any of them and abandoned the chase. Nor did she suggest that they should.
Whilst being connected to the Bridgertons might help if Marina pushed them forward in the books all the Bridgertons like Penelope, invite her to all their parties and hope she'll find a husband one day but it doesn't get her anywhere.
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2 hours ago, Artsda said:
It going to seem like rewarding her public outing of Marina and sending her to the point of making tea for abort the child if she gets Colin in the end. She shouldn't get Colin. I don't want to see her mother get what she plotted for either, someone in her home married to a Bridgerton to pay off their debts.
This version of LW has contempt against her from the town, even Simon. I can't see anyone clapping for her outing either like what happens in the books. I don't want to see any Featherington+Marina win.
They've done a lot of damage to Colin too with this Marina plot too that, they inserted this daytime soap who is the daddy type plot to make him look like a fool who is only spared through Penn's outting of Marina.
The whole Marina plot never should have happened. They took Eloise's story and a small backstory and turned it into something that wasn't needed and just did more damage.
Penelope and Colin's story is potentially season 3 or 4, they have plenty of time to redeem Penelope, particularly if Marina is not seen again or if she is shown making a life with Philip (which sets out problems for a potential Eloise/Philip story but that's another tangent).
They did write themselves into a corner by having LW be cureller in general and potentially ruining the life of a known character who was a protagonist and not someone like Cressida. They wanted to do a lot of things with 8 episodes AND have the dramatic reveal of LW in S1 and not S3/4, so a lot of things got messy, made no sense and were written for plot. Because there's no reason that Marina couldn't have had the exact same plot with a guy not named Bridgerton, even if she ended up with Philip doing the decent thing by his niece and nephew to get canon right. I don't think what she did was right but I don't think this show was ever going to let Colin/Marina get married and raise George's baby together with or without telling him. Girl succeeds in tricking (hot, young) guy into marrying her and trying to pretend it's his baby wouldn't go down well as a storyline for Marina either.
Plenty of characters in night time or Netflix soaps have done terrible things to other people and got "rewarded" with the guy/girl at the end, look at Downton Abbey or any other Shondaland show where it happened with all sexes and races and people in different positions of power. They might take feedback and course correct but she won't be evil or capricious when she's not LW. I do think she'll suffer the consequences of her actions in her family's place in society, the big Daddy's heir issue and other bits they bring in. These are producers that left THAT scene in for Daphne/Simon and didn't take the opportunity to even explore it better and now they have a HEA almost exactly like the book.
Even in the books whilst LW hadn't gone after anyone like that Colin yells that she'll be disgraced if anyone finds out. Because even tweaking the noses of society and pointing out idiocy and hypocrisy and never actually snooping at doors etc would make her unwelcome in many of those homes again.
I do think they're going to go Penelope/Colin and possibly even Eloise/Philip if they get that far, especially if they time jump 10 years into the future. Whether they should or not is a different matter but at this point I believe that's what they're planning. There was no other need to make her Marina and her eventual husband Philip the second son otherwise.
I didn't love Pen in the books or physically identify with her, though I get a lot of the wallflower stuff, (my favourites are Kate and Edwina) but I did like her and the and it was clear from early on she was going to be Colin's love interest.
I do think the writers did all the involved characters a disservice from our POV by not considering the effects of race on the audience, they created a world where the Queen has made race a non issue in society to the point where it's not really a factor in any of the main romantic interactions and plots but that's not how viewers perceive it.
1 hour ago, Brn2bwild said:That's interesting, and I do wonder how typical that was in reality (and I realize these are romance books, where things can be idealized). That lifestyle cost a huge amount of money to maintain, and there were eight children. Even Queen Victoria's younger sons (in a family of nine) were pushed into careers in the army or navy. Winston Churchill's father was a younger son of a duke and ran for public office. It's surprising there isn't any pressure on the younger adult sons to set up their own households, independent of their oldest brother.
I think that's just part of Quinn's Fantasy Regency. I don't think any of her series have younger sons going into the church or Army/Navy, even those that aren't as wealthy as the Bridgertons. Sebastian Grey finds another way and pretends to cadge breakfast with his cousins.
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They definitely do and both are known for playing scheming matriarchs.
Adjoa Andoh has also been in a lot of British TV productions including Who as Martha's mother. I remember her in Casualty when I was a kid.
Ben Miller has been in so many things either as the hapless nice guy or arsy civil servant. He also has a comedy act with Alexander Armstrong. Their airmen sketches used to have me in stitches.
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8 hours ago, bubble sparkly said:
Okay, so if creepy Nigel was able to nearly get away with blackmailing Daphne into marriage by threatening to tell people he was alone with her, and thus ruining her reputation and possibly the whole family based on heresay, does that mean than any man could do the same thing to get a woman he wanted? Or would only powerful nobility be able to do this?
Like, if a random merchant or footman etc. decided that marrying Eloise and claiming her dowry would advance his position in life, could he just threaten to do the same thing and try to force the Bridgertons to agree to marry her off to him? Or would a "lesser" man not be believed by the general public so his threat would hold no weight?
Also, can women try to use this to their advantage to land a wealthy dude who would be compelled to do the right thing and marry them? Like, given the Fs live in close proximity to the Bs, if Mrs F was able to scheme to get one of her girls alone with Anthony in a room or on the street etc., could she then pop out of a bush and demand he marry daughter X to save her honour (even if nothing happened)? And when Pen found Colin in the empty corridor of his house to try and convince him to ditch Marina, would have this been grounds to ruin her since they were alone in a secluded place, and could she have tried the "marry me or I'll be ruined" thing?
It would have to be a credible threat, not just a footman who told his master that he's slept with his daughter. That would just get him fired or worse beaten up or quietly done away with even if it was true. If true or believed by her father/brother/uncle the daughter would either be sent to the country in disgrace or hastily married off to someone who wouldn't ask questions too many about her virginity.
As for the other way around. It really depends on what sort of family the girl came from. IF she came from a wealthy, connected or powerful family then yes a man might be "trapped" into marriage by a young woman or they could insist that he married her if they had slept together. So many romance novels start with the premise that two people accidentally find themselves alone and must get married to protect her honour and/or because the man is honourable enough to follow through.
However most of the time he was under no obligation to marry the young woman even if he had slept with her, although there could be some societal/family pressure. He could easily claim he wasn't even her first or that it wasn't his problem that she was ruined, that her father/brothers/chaperone should have taken more care of her virtue and she clearly was a slut who wouldn't make anyone a good wife. He might have to also deal with being a cad and possibly disinherited by his family (Willoughby in S&S but he then marries an heiress) if it got out but nowhere near what she and her family would deal with. See also Lydia and Wickham in P&P Lizzie was worried there would be nothing to tempt Wickham to do the right thing by Lydia and he would just abandon her until Darcy intervened.
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Thinking about some other finales and the ups and downs of Arrow it ended well compared to how they could have gone out, even if it wasn't the happy raising of the kids (maybe with occasional missions) that I would have chosen myself.
As for changing ships, I never really did for Arrow. Disliked Lauriver from the get go wasn't a big fan of dead brother's wife. Merlance have great chemistry but rewatching really showed Laurel was using him as a place holder and was never really that into it. Was into Olicity from the start but didn't think it would turn romantic, I thought we'd get the Clark/Chloe route until late in 2A and even then wasn't sure it would stick.
Interesting that person ships Delicity romantically. I never saw that personally. They have great chemistry but even in their early one-on- one's it never came off as romantic. Now I want to find an Earth where that happened just for the Woah. Carly was a good character except being Dig's sister in law so he could show Oliver how sibling swapping is done honourably and Dyla was awesome from the start. I could read an OTA OT3 crack though but I've never seen one.
I'm actually surprised there wasn't more of Oliver/Dig and especially Oliver/Tommy (two white guy woobies style) but I never got that vibe from either of them.
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1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:
Thanks guys!!!
So I assume Emma's father had looooots of cash? Because she had so much freedom and money was never a worry for her in the future.
Yes her father had a lot of money and indulged her, As the book begins:
"Emma Woodhouse, handsome, clever, and rich, with a comfortable home and a happy disposition... and had lived nearly twenty-one years in the world with very little to distress or vex her."
She's rich has a loving father who doesn't want her to get married and leave him, is beautiful, powerful within the village and think she's much more interested in making matches than getting married herself. And better at it than anyone, else which is also wrong. She doesn't see the disadvantages someone like Harriet has because she has never had to deal with them herself (thus causing chaos) and that's also why Knightly yells at her about her treatment of Miss Bates who's life might well only get worse the longer she lives.
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3 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:
Which book should I read next? I read book two and LOVED LOVED LOVED IT!!!
I don't need to read them in order so hoping for a recommendation. Something as fun as book 2. I loved Kate, Edwina and Mary!
Hmm. Well Benedict's is a Cinderella story and deals quite well with some class and illegitimacy issues as well as gets pretty angsty and emotional.
As @bijoux says Eloise's actually has some great Bridgerton family interaction and deals with loss, mental health and children in a kind of period way. But be warned it might be jarring having watched the show version of Marina.
Hycanith's is a treasure hunt and fairly light hearted.
Gregory's is quite melodramatic and OTT although I do like his heroine.
Francesca's is often a popular one, dealing with a Bridgerton who's happily ever after comes with her *second* marriage and involves cousin swapping and grief.
Colin and Pelenope's deals with a lot of Whistledown issues and you get a better look at the Featheringtons and what it means to not be a Diamond or get married your first 3 seasons out and a Colin character study.
I'm almost tempted to suggest that you might like the Bevelstoke series (books 2 and 3 are way better than 1) which are a lot of fun as well "What Happens in London" and "10 Things I love About You". I think you'd like Sebastian Grey as a character.
But knowing what you've said you like from the Arrow board I think you could find a lot to enjoy about any one of them, although the first half of the series has better writing in general than the last couple of books IMO.
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30 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:
I actually do need answers for this one. How did those girls wear all those pale dresses if it was that time of the month? It's 2020 and I still avoid wearing light colored clothing during that time of the month for fear of ... leakage.
There seems to be no clear answer for this period in history except general theories about rags. I remember looking into it for a Jane Austen thing years ago. Here's an author's quest for answers which comes up with a pad thing from the 1880s.
http://susannaives.com/wordpress/2015/09/tidbits-on-mid-victorian-era-menstrual-hygiene/
And as this points out underwear for ladies wasn't common:
https://janeaustensworld.wordpress.com/2010/11/06/ladies-underdrawers-in-regency-times/
The link shows contemporary paintings depicting ladies falling down the stairs with bare bottoms.
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1 hour ago, Growsonwalls said:
I mean if Mama Bridgerton had 8 kids you'd think the little ones would figure it out ...
It's not like they're in a small house or one room where they're likely to hear their parents having sex. The older boys would probably find out at Eton and get embarrassed when they realised their parents were having sex but for the girls, sometimes all they'd be told was that their mother was "busy" and not going out in society and then a few months later they'd be presented with another baby sibling and not told any details, like many kids today.
Violet managed to talk to her 18 year old about marrying a man neither of them wanted her to by saying her children will be her great love without going into the details or expressing anything about the awful parts of having sex with Nigel.
It fits with Eloise thinking a baby is something that comes along once you're married without any details.
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Thanks for that @bijoux Nigel is the one that's amiable enough but too dim for Daphne. He's not a harasser or attacker as in the series even though he doesn't take one no for an answer, he's more pathetic than a threat. He probably works well with the lady he ends up with.
I like that exchange because he wants Daphne to get married and feels responsibility but he's not pushing her into a match against her will or openly scaring suitors away even though Simon thinks three older brothers doesn't help Daphne's cause with some of them.
I think it fits better with the uneasy psyche of a man who is torn between responsibility, really is close to his family, worshiping his dead father and his absolute certainty that he doesn't have a long life ahead of him.
It was Penelope's first season in 1813 and she later she laments to Kate that along with everything else she was *fat* and needed an extra year to really grow into a young woman and not a girl with puppy fat but her mother forced her out to get a head start at 17. They commiserate about unflattering clothes and the painful experiences of being an overlooked wallflower.
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2 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:
Anthony was also working with insider knowledge gained from him hanging out at his gentlemen's club. He knows which ones are heavy gamblers with tons of debt, the ones who have a mistress they won't give up, the ones who are alcoholics, and the ones who may have picked up a venereal disease. As far as he knows, Berbrooke is not one of those men. He doesn't see Berbrooke as a creep, he sees him as a gentleman with few vices. Anthony is looking to set Daphne up with a gentleman who will take care of her and their children with no scandal.
That's true. Although the fact that his sister was so against the marriage and wouldn't even consider it should have given him pause. She wasn't on her 5th season with no other options she was newly out and had plenty of opportunities yet even if she wasn't always the Diamond. They are supposed to be close, he could have at least talked to her about why she was so dead set against it.
I think it's important for Anthony's character to set up the pressures he feels as head of the Bridgerton family and de facto father figure to many of his younger siblings but He kind of swung from one extreme to the other with Daphne in the first few episodes and it also didn't make sense with some of the Sienna stuff later.
SpoilerAnd it rankled because in the book he's something of an arse but he let Daphne turn down four suitors including Not Blackmailer/Attacker Nigel even though she was never the Diamond and that showed he cared about her as more than responsibility.
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1 hour ago, smartymarty said:
I didn't understand this either, or that Simon's "revenge" would be to never marry or create an heir only because having a long line of heirs was important to his father. The guy's dead. Don't make your own life more miserable when the guy isn't around anymore. Take your revenge by taking the title and the money and everything that goes with it, but maybe doing something charitable with it. Or adopt other children, as Lady Danbury effectively did for you.
This is completely true, but it's a fact that Simon had to discover for himself. That he shouldn't ruin his own life by focusing on what his father did or didn't want and let him rule him from beyond the grave. I think it's something that has to come from personal realisation, not that can be told to someone and they'll believe it.
27 minutes ago, Door County Cherry said:Oh I don't know. I think bland perfectly describes Daphne and Daphne and Simon to me. The fact that Simon on screen shines at all is is all thanks to the actor.
I think they had chemistry on the show but as a couple they've always been very bland, nice but dull. The Plan and Simon's admittedly huge father issues are the only things that give them any trouble, otherwise they'd be that couple that meet and have a nice albeit privileged and wealthy life that no one would write about. So the external factors become as dramatic as possible.
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7 hours ago, Katsullivan said:
This is fantasy Regency. Much like Negro Queen Charlotte and colored people in the peerage, I don't think we're supposed to assume it's an exact duplicate of real historical events or attitudes.
Reading through the thread, I'm not surprised at people defending Penelope basically for being conventionally unattractive, regardless of her actual actions, so I won't touch that.
What interests me is the confirmation (?) that book Benedict and Eloise are not queer! I assumed Benedict was bi, and Eloise was at least aromantic, or maybe even a lesbian who hadn't yet come out. The show seemed to hint at something with her and Penelope in the beginning, until it became obvious that Penelope had a crush on Colin. Interesting. Hopefully, these were done deliberately to steer them this way. As to the inevitable naysayers, if we can have Black Dukes, we can have gay Lords and Ladies, thank you very much.
The first book came out in 2000 and at the time it was pretty standard for mainstream romances to be 100% heteronormative and in Regency 95% white with a few Native American, Indian and Chinese mothers thrown in for some "exoticness". As said above Quinn also hasn't changed things up much in her more recent series except to stop attempting anything except the most basic nods to 1800s society and write them as fairly conservative white, middle class American characters basically cos playing Jane Austen. I also personally think her witty writing which was the main selling point of these books has also declined.
Some authors included queer side characters but almost all main characters who were going to get there own book were straight and followed a template of the bad boy, the dreamer/quiet one, the funny one, the stick up his ass one, the alpha one, the horse mad one, the quirky one. Mix and match some what. All of them will be labelled "Rakes" as a compliment even if they really aren't because the word "rake" on the back of a book sells.
Benedict wasn't as clearly written as Colin or Anthony in the first two books but became the dreamer and quirky one quickly in his own book. He also falls in love with Cinderella about 30 pages into the book and spends a lot of time about obsessing over her and then vacillating between "her" and Sophie the maid. There are no hints at all that he is bi or otherwise queer.
Her one gay character in this series is nice enough but basically a cardboard placeholder obstacle and there's some hints he may have a mutually beneficial Lavender Marriage at some point, which I suppose is a happish ending at the time.
Penelope and Eloise vaguely planning a spinster cottage in the country when they reached their mid 30s and retired from the marriage mart but the writing bashed us over the head with Penelope is Colin's LI as early as book 2 and certainly by book 3 so it never came across as queer as it could have.
In the books Eloise definitely isn't Aro or Ace she's waiting for true love that all her siblings have and is frustrated by the options of the ton because she is a bright, witty person who wants more than dull suitors. The book goes into detail explaining why she turned down many marriage proposals from alcoholism to lack of humour to too old etc.
7 hours ago, DearEvette said:I just finished episode four and I am hating the direction of the Anthony/Sienna storyline. I hope they aren't planning to diverge from the books and make her his heroine if they are planning an Anthony romance arc for season two. His book is so good, and his 'Taming of the Shrew' like heroine is awesome. I am up for them changing some stuff like making Benedict gay or bi (his book was not a favorite of mine -- I tend to dislike Cinderella re-tellings) or making Eloise a rabble rousing spinster (I liked her book but it would would not work for the tv series) but please, no pairing Anthony up with Sienna.
I sincerely doubt they'll make Sienna his heroine. I was on the fence about book pairings before I watched the season but now I'm pretty firmly on the "they'll keep at least the first four-five books intact" train, even if I might prefer a couple of them diverge.
Anthony and Kate's story is pretty popular in general and they have a lot of meaty material to cover, more so than D/S. Kate connects to Anthony's past, fears and hopes in a way Sienna just can't. She also comes with a great supporting cast in Edwina, Mary and Newton. As well as more exploration of the Bridgertons in general with Edmund and Violet. I know they didn't hit Anthony's problems in the right place this season but I don't see him having to chose between say Edwina and Sienna is the same story at all. That's more Benedict and they were the same person anyway.
I think they included Sienna a) to give Anthony more to do than be a complete ass about Daphne. B) Opera singer mistress story is sexy and scandalous for this Shondaland show c) to beef up some of the drama for his own story in the easiest way possible, even if it isn't like his book character who is afraid to love anyone romantically.
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S01.E01: Filmed Before a Live Studio Audience
in WandaVision
· Edited by Featherhat
Just finished watching the first episode and I really enjoyed it. I wasn't sure if I was going to like an entire episode dedicated to the faux sitcom gag part of it but it really held my attention.
Elizabeth Olsen especially just made this work. Paul Bettany was also good and I really like the chemistry between them. I loved that there were so many call outs to your average 60s sitcom plots and tone but that they also had a lot of weird and creepy undertones to them because we (and Wanda on some level) know that there is a lot more going on.
This was not even close to the craziest sitcom plot Debra Jo Rupp and Fred Melamed have done taking it at face value.
And yup pulling out to reveal the control room at the end was expected but can't wait for the rest of it!
I also really love how "WandaVision" has so many different possibilities as a title. Their ship portmanteau, is it all Wanda's Vision for a "happy" life, the people watching Wanda and Vision on television, the people controlling Wanda's vision as well as Vision.