Featherhat
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49 minutes ago, tv echo said:
I wonder if the Oliver Queen/GA tribute at the beginning of this video was added after the fan backlash (over "The CWverse" term) when this promo was first advertised as upcoming (this promo is being released much later than its originally scheduled streaming date of Aug. 17)...
-- I'm still going to call it the Arrowverse.
-- I find it interesting that there's a shot of JH's Black Canary around the middle of this video. I wonder if that means she's now joining one of the other Arrowverse shows.
-- The Superman & Lois music is very derivative of John Williams' Superman theme.
The CWverse Superheroes | The CW
The CW Network Sep 1, 2020Apart from anything else CWVerse doesn't roll off the tongue at all.
I'm still going to call it the Arrowverese.
JH might be joining another show (although out of the three I'd bet on KC on LOT unfortunately) but they might have put in in there because it's a cool moment rather than anything else. There's quite a bit of Ray and BR isn't coming back anytime soon. And lots of RRs Batwoman.
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IIRC he said he always gets the season overview in advance. And obviously he spoiled the wedding Summer 2017 and apparently spoiled Mia to a group of fans who kept it quiet until after the reveal. MG literally told him the final shot of the series at SDCC 2019. He also claimed he always knew who was in the grave and IIRC wasn't he the one to get permission from the producers to tell EBR she wasn't dying? Also he knew that JS was Prometheus not Vigilante and that other less big reveals and details.
I remember he said he found out about Adult William being the the FFs from reading the script.
They could have not told him things but it seems he knew a lot of key plot points, even if later seasons. Or I suppose there could have been a lot of joking about it "don't tell Steve he'll announce it at one of his cons!". David also knew a lot - possibly from just looking at the story boards for each episode.
KC never seemed to know what was going on, at one point she apparently thought the grave was going to be a fake out. Obviously none of the rest of the cast knew who until MG requested a meeting with KC. But the supporting cast not knowing the entire season is usual. Not to mention she said at one point she didn't read the entire scripts.
Interesting that she didn't name a favourite Laurel to play, not that she had to but that was an entire non answer.
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Watching early series of new who has got me thinking about this again the past week.
I feel like Martha/Tom was more about what happened in the first timeline and not the relationship they actually had in the post Tinkerbell Jesus timeline, where they didn't go through the same things together. They definitely looked good together though and I had completely forgotten he was Tom Ellis. They did rush to getting engaged and Martha talking about it in S4 seemed defensive about it.
I do think Martha and Mickey potentially have a lot in common but that Martha especially might have to deal with Mickey being Rose's ex after (kind of) being hurt in the same situation before. I also wonder if they "went freelance" due to Martha feeling like she could no longer be a doctor after the Osterhagen Key thing? Planning to blow up earth even under the direst of circumstances can mess with someone's perception of their ability to Do No Harm.
The Martha/Mickey marriage came completely out of nowhere but apparently it would have been shown in Children of Earth if the actors had been available, so it seems RTD fast forwarded it to where he wanted it to end without actually showing any of the journey. Which caused mass amounts of confusion and a lot of "seriously, you just paired up the spare black characters with no actual story?" I feel like Verity Newman got more of a intro/send off although that might be because she's played by such a well known in the UK face.
Having watched S3 and 4 again I'm continually pleased about how much Martha keeps growing on me - 14 years after I didn't like her very much when she debuted. A particular favourite for both her and Ten is Gridlock and they way they actually seem to be connecting a little. She certainly had to go through a lot of incredibly tough times for less emotional reward than 10s other companions and she just keeps going until she can't but with no drama. Her choice to leave the TARIS of her own free will (more than once) and actually have a life after The Doctor is the healthiest by far.
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Just a trivia note, it looks like SA or his publicist has updated his IMDb profile pic to reflect his post Arrow career.
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1 hour ago, bijoux said:
Isnthe girl on the right someone famous as well or not?
The girl right next to him looks like she's Mischa Barton (The OC) who was in the film Closing The Ring with him around the time this was taken and it's roughly the same hair cuts.
Gregory Smith was also in it.
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Well that's a bit of an improvement on serial killer Oliver.
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On 8/14/2020 at 4:14 AM, SnarkySheep said:
Don't forget, in one of the final episodes, Frankie outright admits that she's on Facebook literally all day at work...like WTF?? It seems like she's the only other employee at that dentist's office, so she would be pretty steadily busy, serving as hygienist and probably doing billing, etc. When would she even have time for that?
Stuff like that really annoyed me because they went to the trouble of having Frankie fired by Elhert Motors and deciding to do something that she was more interested in and go and do a course for it but she's still the same flake she was at the dentist's that she was at all the other "dead end" money jobs she had. Maybe try to show some difference and character growth? Going back to school at 40+ with a family requires time, money and effort. Seeing her put some effort into an actual career could have mined more comedy than "oops I forgot/couldn't be bothered to do my job" like those patient reminders.
I re watched a lot of the series recently because I badly needed some harmless comedy that I had already seen and it certainly did its job, but certain things did really stick out to me. Like others here I got completely fed up of the complaining about money but barely ever trying to save or learn the skills they need to fix things themselves. That take out bill, wow. Also frustrating was Sue's entire storyline. Why were ALL the clubs at her schools try out only, were there none that you could just join? And I get that that was the joke but Sue should be memorable to students for various catastrophes and incidents and to staff for being so insanely irrepressible and eager? They might not *like* Sue but she's memorable in that context. Couldn't they had had different teachers having various reactions to that like we did for Brick and Frankie/Mike's reaction to Brick's teachers?
I did like Axl's realisation when he went to College at how much Frankie had to push him. Too bad that didn't actually go anywhere or they didn't do anything with football that took up so much time previously. And WTF was that marriage about? It felt like it came from a completely different show.
Brick was always going to be tricky when he hit his teenage years. The youngest "quirkiest" kid on family sitcoms almost always are.
I have to say I really like the Floating Anniversary in S1. That's actually a funny yet very thoughtful and necessary anniversary gift a night to themselves then picking out a new carpet remnant. But due to some circumstances that were out of their control and some that could have been avoided it spirals out of control.
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5 hours ago, Chaser said:
KM has mentioned a couple times now she isn’t done with Mia. I wonder if she already has reassurances that they are bringing her back for future appearances (regardless of the spin off). I don’t think I’ve heard JH or KC allude to that.
Possibly, we know MG has talked about using LOT or another show to rescue William if it didn't happen and tie up some of the other ends. KM also posted something about going temporarily dark and I wondered if she needed the blonde for Mia soonish. But that's probably hugely reaching because she's just normally blonde. Maybe she's just putting it out there that she'd like to come back just in a general hope and they have vague plans for it. Or on the end of the scale she's just auditioning because even if they did pick or have picked it up it would only be for a very short order starting next year? I mean I assume it's dead but the limbo is just weird, even for an already very unusual season. My enthusiasm went way, way down when I realised they didn't have BL, JDJ or the others on contract but I still want to know what's going on.
Although I also have visions of @tv echo being right and contracts are being worked out for someone (KC) to be added full time to LOT, which is something I've been paranoid about with no proof since the back door pilot was announced and the idea that she would be the last one out the door come hell or high water seemed right on course. Retooling it into a straight "Canaries" pilot she pitched without Mia and FTA would bug me less than BS on LOT (although I would still roll my eyes), since I just wouldn't watch it. The 100 spin off hasn't had yes/no announced yet either.
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I assume they aren't going forward with the spin off, at least as it was originally conceived, although it's strange MG says it's up to DC to announce it in that case, why can't he or Kat just say "yeah it's not happening". Maybe they will at Fandome. Or announce if they've retooled it or KC is joining LOT or something.
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With Bones I'm not sure they would have got (and kept) them together right then if not for Emily Deschanel being pregnant. As it was it's now a little notorious for the "they had sex off screen and now they're suddenly pregnant and together". I remember some eye rolling quotes from the showrunners at the time. I will give them credit for generally keeping them together for the rest of the show, unlike it's "sister show" Castle who's showrunner also frequently invoked the "will they/won't they is fun together is boring" thing and who's leads didn't get on at all in later seasons.
My worst one is JAG, I was pretty young when I first watched it and it stuck in my brain but if ever there was a pairing who had beaten the horse to death in every conceivable way it was Harm and Mac. Then they do the finale episode get together thing but nearly 20 years late on NCISLA you find out they broke up quickly afterwards and haven't seen each other since. 🙄
Everyone knew why they broke them up the way they did on Arrow by twisting every character in the story into incredibly OOC shapes, even MG admitted they were writing to plot and to get there by certain points although he has otherwise defended it. And I'll always think it was some left over hijinks from when this 5 year relationship arc was planned with Laurel because it would have made so much more sense. I guess Olicity in general shows that they were willing to take risks on a pairing and change the OTP but followed TV main couple convention in many other respects.
I don't mind waiting but I have to think they have a decent plan or arc in mind and aren't just dragging it out until the finale episode or worse until they literally can't think of anything else and are bored and it shows. Depending on how big a part of the show and how long it goes on it is by that point I often don't want them anywhere near each other and have stopped watching.
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Alan Sepinwall is right. Some producers are so paranoid about "the Moonlighting Curse" and the belief that couples who don't break up every five minutes or take 6 seasons to start dating (with a break up around the corner) are boring that they sabotage themselves the other way instead. It also often follows the same formula of growing closer, something happening, growing closer again, ex or "perfect on paper" love interest shows up, season of dating them, growing close with OTP, break up, awkwardness, growing closer with OTP, maybe dating, stupid break up, ship stalls, growing closer,.......... And by that point even the people that love romantic angst have abandoned the show in favour of different shows. And in some shows all of that can happen without the couple even ever getting together properly.
There was something that Watchover mentions in their latest podcast that in S4 the producers said they can do this one of two ways with Olicity: Will they/won't they until the show ends or get together and break up which they chose and nearly destroyed any good will they had with the couple and Felicity as a character since so many people blamed HER instead of Oliver because they bought what the show was selling about Oliver "having no choice" 🤬.
It is more difficult to do something different and create drama without having a couple constantly on the verge of breaking up. And fans do complain if the couple is regulated to only 30 second book ends but surely there's middle ground?
Interesting that Beth flat out says they created ship stalls that are never any real competition, because that was obvious but the show also tried to play it completely straight with Susan and gaslight the audience (and Thea) with the "good person" BS.
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I get it from a marketing perspective but CWVerse just sounds horrible and I'm not sure it will catch on. Arrowverse rolled off the tongue really well. Flarrowverse or even Flashverse also worked. But GG has never been interested in being seen as the leader of the 'Verse in the way that SA has in terms of promotion or anything -which is completely fine and understandable. The reason it went back to Arrowverse rather than Flarrowverse was because SA among others pushed that Arrow was the progenitor of everything. And they are probably thinking about ending Flash and Legends and maybe Supergirl in the next 1-3 years so it makes sense to try and divorce it from any particular show.
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45 minutes ago, tv echo said:
There was also an air of Antisemitism in some of the attacks on Felicity, who was established early on as being Jewish and the granddaughter of Holocaust survivors.
I'm glad I didn't see much of this. The only time I saw it was around COEX when people hoped Oliver X would kill Felicity (esp with the foiler grave photo) because she was Jewish and the gross shipping of "OverArrow" as a way to try and annoy Olicity fans and those who were worried about the "dark mirror love story" was going to be portrayed - which was a completely reasonable worry.
Was there much at other times?
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On 8/7/2020 at 10:47 PM, tennisgurl said:
Emma acting like Hansel and Gretel going to foster care is basically a fate worse than death, it not only suffers from some very outdated ideas, but is also a byproduct of another issue in the show, the almost comical levels the show would go to to make Emma's life suck. Sorry, I still cant buy that beautiful blond healthy Emma, who even got press coverage when she was found by the highway, was never adopted, or even that, when she was dumped by her potential adopted parents, she wasn't snatched up by another family instantly.
I guess this was just a by product of the fairytale aspect. Emma can't have been adopted because she needed a grimdark backstory. Other shows these days do try and provide some sort of explanation for why healthy white babies weren't adopted immediately, even if it also doesn't stand up to scrutiny. I think foster parents get even more of a bum rap than adoptive parents do in most TV shows and movies in general anyway.
For me the key part of the early Regina/Henry/Emma relationship was always the point where Emma who wanted the hell out of Storybrooke and didn't want to interfere before had the realisation Regina didn't love Henry due to her superpower. Everything started with that. That and the fact that Regina was an all around psychopath and stayed like that until the end. I can see where that veered into anti adoption territory but in S1 it was always clear to me it was a Regina specific stance rather than "the bio mother is the only true mother". Having a list of other instances where they portrayed adoptive parents as bad or lesser is interesting though. Clearly they over fixed one and then wrote towards it as part of the big Regina is the most best person ever stuff but didn't in general. Though clearly some of it like the Prince vs the Pauper family for James also plays heavily into fairytale archetypes and narratives. You can't ever be happy to be adopted by royalty and the king is always and asshole who just wants an heir not an actual child otherwise you're a person who is ashamed of themselves, is arrogant and/or hates poor people.
It would have been interesting to see how they handled it if Emma had a decent adoptive or longterm foster parent she loved and how that would have affected Snowing who desperately didn't want to give her up the second she was born with her Dad risking his life to get her to the tree cabinet. But equally someone else *would* have been able to be there and be a parent when they weren't. I suspect it wouldn't have been nuanced either.
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2 hours ago, RS3 said:
Hehe this tells me everything I need to know about this guy's definition of a Strong Woman.
Jokes aside, I thought the whole point of earth prime's reset was that there was no crime. Plus there's a difference between learning basic self defense moves, which we don't know that Mia didn't know, and getting extensive archery training and combat training.
Yes the point of the new timeline was to show everything was 100% puppies and unicorns and rainbows after Oliver's sacrifice to contrast with the awfulness of the first timeline. They wanted this Mia to be shiny and new to contrast with pre Crisis Mia and so Laurel could yell hypocritically at her. They also knew she'd be getting her memories back within 20 minutes anyway so they didn't have to give her expert training this timeline and could so the socialite by day, vigilante by night contrast they abandoned with Oliver.
We also not know what they had planned in the way of revealing her strengths and weaknesses if it had gone to series.
It just seems like an exercise to bash Felicity for not "letting" the 500 "bad asses" around Mia "train her in the art of war" like that's actually a good thing for a 5 year old. Pre Crisis Felicity made sure Mia was trained by the best from the minute she was able to walk, because she had to.
The pilot also showed Mia turning down the opportunity to work at Smoak Tech and seemingly disinterested in the nitty gritty of tech, which no one can claim Felicity wouldn't try to encourage her daughter to at least know, so Mia is not in favour of either legacy her parents left her at the start. Which was the point because it's an origin story and she's a combination of Oliver and Thea pre island/s1 but less of an asshole.
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"Let's just enjoy the days before Barry became the worst" I think this is actually my favourite Barry ep (including all but one or two of his own show) and also a great episode of Arrow.
It does make me wonder about the mutliverse Earth were Barry didn't get his own show but became the other superhero, like Green Arrow did on Smallville. In terms of romance I guess they'd have had him be the stall instead of Ray before eventually bringing Iris in.
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11 hours ago, Thomas Crown said:
While I'm not a full blown shipper of Chen and Bradford, I thought I would spin a positive light on the article for those who are shippers 🙂 Reading between the lines of the above article stating the show not wanting to cross the line in writing a romantic relationship between a superior and their subordinate, I could still see the writers addressing the chemistry issue by having one of the 2 characters developing romantic feelings for the other and then not acting on it for the reasons stated in the article. The show could then revisit the romantic issue between the 2 characters down the line in future seasons when Bradford is no longer Chen's training officer.
Pretty much this. I'm not a shipper for them but I do think they work well together and I dont think people are silly or crazy for thinking or hoping it will happen, even though this isn't a show like Grey's Anatomy where everyone is openly dating a boss/subordinate. It's TV couples, get together even if showrunners have made a big deal about it not happening in other situations. I could definitely see it happening if this show makes it to later seasons. Although Hawley like many showrunners usually seems to like the tease and bait and switch more than writing a long term couple anyway.
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On 8/1/2020 at 10:12 AM, theschnauzers said:
At its heart, Glee was always described as a comedy-drama-musical. It was a unique combination of all three, and has never been copied. It’s important to remember the timeframe of the series as production began in 2008 and it finished five and a half seasons in 2015. Morals change, perceptions change, values change. Many comedies from earlier decades are, to me, virtually unwatchable because of that. Look at what had to be done with Gone With The Wind, in spite of the fact it won multiple Oscars in 1939, but the portrayal of black characters are offensive to modern attitudes, and even though the movie was faithful to the original novel. So that’s something you have to learn to do as applying current sensibilities to television and film made in the past distorts things.
This is true, but I feel like 2013 when the episode aired wasn't *that* long ago, #metoo wasn't the first or even the 10th time these issues came to the societal forefront and IIRC there was a lot of conversation on TWOP and elsewhere about the appropriateness of the episode then and Shue's behaviour in general, even though Sue was the more obviously terrible teacher. Just as there was a lot of discussion/upset even in 2011 about Finn the straight white guy outing Santana the lesbian WOC "for her own good" and making it all about him. Not to mention discussion about whether Kurt being a walking stereotype was ok or whether it was supposed to be "hightened reality ironic"/satire and if that made it ok or of Chris made it ok, etc. Not to mention discussion about Artie and Becky and their portrayals.
Glee did a lot of things that were seen as potentially controversial even at the time and in the early seasons often made a good story out of them with occasional moments of absolutely amazingly awesome that carried it though some questionable storylines. As long as you didn't look too hard.
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I do think JS's performance in 5B is what a lot of people remember. Despite the fact that the plot would have fallen apart if they'd actually written Oliver to be 1% less dumb. Along with deliberate call backs to S1 with the "no one can know my secret" *necksnap* and that OMG! Everything was back to basics and being dark and gritty and grimdark and realistic! You know, except for aliens, Rory's magic robes, aliens, Human target, aliens, Dinah's cry, a 17 year old amazing vigilante, aliens, and a whole island blowing up and only killing 1 person, aliens etc.
I also think that once you get a fandom/media group think like that going it's hard to pinpoint why you liked it apart from well obviously you did because it's S5 and everyone agrees it was the best. When in reality it had many of the same issues every season of Arrow does with pacing, lazy writing, plot over characterisation and relying on actor charisma to disguise the plot holes a mile wide.
Oh and don't forget if you blamed Olicity for everything that went wrong with S3 and S4 then you automatically have to claim it's 100% perfect because they weren't together and Felicity was more "in her place" in 5A*. Even though Oliver was the dumbest fruit cake pine tree for dating a reporter who already backstabbed his sister (which would have resulted in her getting a visit from the Arrow in S3) and made it very clear she wanted to expose him. Despite the aforementioned neck snapping in ep 1 and the fact that there were many episodes he spent more time in the mayors office plotlines than suited up (or at least it felt like it) whereas that was the worst thing in the world in S4 and 6.
* You also have to make a one episode exception and think 520 was the most pointless episode in the entire series, tied with 6x04.
SA really did look checked out through out a lot of it, even if he wasn't in reality.
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I think one can be considered "difficult" in many senses of the word and still overall a great person with a lot life and love to give, and a huge amount of fond memories created. Frankly I can imagine that many on this cast had their ups and downs for various reasons, not least that it suddenly catapulted so many of them into the TV stratosphere very quickly for the first time, the exhausting, long hours they worked and for the first few seasons the tours they did before going almost right back into filming.
So theoretically Naya or others could have had their real issues on set and still have created this amazing, genuine bond and now outpouring of love and grief for her.
And yeah as @Cranberry says "difficult" can also mean standing up for yourself, which can be an especially easy label to tag women with and even more so WOC.
I have never done a Glee rewatch, I bailed mostly after S4 and haven't watched it since it got so infuriating. I was always aware of its faults, even in S1 but I did hugely enjoy it despite that and parts of it do mean a lot to me and Satana is a big part of that.
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48 minutes ago, lemotomato said:
I’m baffled by the praise for season 5. The show threw out all of Oliver’s character growth and made him incredibly stupid that season for the sake of the plot. He was fooled and betrayed at every turn, by Evelyn, BS, Susan Williams, Thalia, Adrian, and Anatoly. In the crossover he was tricked by aliens. I can’t even watch season 5 again after it aired because I loved Oliver Queen as a character and to see him regressed like that was painful.
I think it's just one of those things that gets thrown around so often people stop thinking about what it even means and questioning it. Ra, ra, Arrow! Dark! Gritty! Violent! Killing! No magic!
(except magic rags!)No dumb relationship drama!(except there definitely was!)And they hit the jackpot with JS as Chase, so there are much fewer questions about just how he was able to do everything. If they'd hired someone else there might be just as many complaints about it as there were S6 and Diaz. It's like S2 is many people's favourite but Slade's plan falls apart the minute you look at it closely. -
42 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:
Not all fans of the show were enamored by RR's acting ability. I stayed with the show because of the writing and the characters of Mary and Luke. I am looking forward to season 2 with great anticipation.
I wasn't a big fan of RR but you don't have to be to be frustrated about a new character and not a recasting with a new Kate. All of the supporting cast, with the possible exception of Luke were deeply connected to her, not Batwoman.
I also watched mainly for Mary and grew to enjoy Luke a lot and I'm cautiously positively interested in S2 with JL to see what she brings but I'm worried about the somewhat inevitable changes to the supporting cast. Do we need Jacob, Alice, Sophie or Mary if "Ryan Wilder" has her own family and friends? There are ways that Mary and Sophie can be used (Crow, Robin Hood team doctor) but the others are more wild cards.
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Once you count it up she started going out into the field almost from the get go without a mask. She was never "just" sitting behind her computers. And she continues to do it several other times in S2.
Broken Dolls is such a creepy but good episode. And an interesting dive into Quentin's psyche when he lost Sara (and as Laurel is about to be fridged in front of him), just as she's returned to Starling and associating the serial killer herself.
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13 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:
Hahahaha. That's a load of bull shit
Who is KP? I see that and think of KenP the pap in Vancouver but, I didn't think he'd know anything about NM filming/Cast/Crew
Kamran Pasha, an ex writer on RNM who when Carina was fired/left went on a tweet spree accusing her of literally everything under the sun (racism, bullying, sexual harassment, control freakdom, hypocrisy, "fake wokeness" not being a real Muslim) and much more, you can see some of the tweets and paraphrasing of them on the previous page, he had now locked down his account. It was clearly pretty visceral for him.
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Pretty Little Liars (The Original Series)
in Pretty Little Liars: Original Sin
· Edited by Featherhat
Are you kidding me??
Seriously the show ended three years ago. It was one of the first shows to blow up completely on social media and live tweeting etc. It was always batshit crazy, creepy and twisted, it wasn't just about straight white girls and included sexiness, what possible excuse could there be to "reboot it for a new generation" so soon?
Ravenswood and The Perfectionists both crashed and burned quickly, Freeform's own attempts with The Lying Game and Twisted failed other attempts at teen mysteries have only been so so (including Riverdale) why would this one with new characters succeed?