[S02.E01: What Happened to Kate Kane?]

26 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

This makes sense to me. My issue is that, since Ruby quit, why would they even leave Kate alive? It teases the idea that Kate will return and, unless they're recasting Kate for the future, it's cruel if they eventually find her dead instead of just doing the deed now. The characters already presume she's dead. And if they're gonna recast Kate later on, why didn't they just do THAT now as well? That's why the storyline isn't quite working for me. It's a fine storyline, but the missing piece is Kate. 

 

Some shows have an irritating habit of doing that. And actor quits/gets fired and they don't kill them off for some reason and dangle a maybe and have the other characters swear they'll never stop looking for them. And of course the other characters seem like arseholes when they don't actually devote much time to looking for them and we never see them again. Looking at you Stargate Atlantis. I suppose they might be holding out hope RR comes back for some sort of wrap up after she's had time to reflect and/or when the COVID situation is more hopeful. 

I will say I really like JC  as an actress, she has a lot of charm that's carry off an awkward role and probably I'll grow to really like Ryan (despite the name) but it *does* feel really awkward for now because the cast is so built around Kate, not really Batwoman per se.

[S01.E01: Filmed Before a Live Studio Audience]

When they first made it clear they were "going there" in CW I was a little surprised that the dedicated time to it given the million characters in a technical Cap film problem but I enjoyed their interactions, both actors are great and have chemistry together and the characters are definitely interesting. 

Again, a lot of development happened off screen before IW but I thought they made it work and the ending was devastating. The MCU does have a spotty track record with romance but this was one that I thought was handled well. And with both actors on fire in this I even care about them getting a fake HEA in the suburbs before getting to the meat and tragedy of watching it all unravel for Wanda (again). 

 

[Envisioning What's Next: Speculation With Spoilers]

Assuming Woo and Darcy (and maybe Monica?) are working with SWORD I then further assume they're at least supposed to be a "good" organisation like SHIELD pre TWS. Then they'll pop up for The Eternals, DS2, Captain Marvel 2, Ms Marvel, LOKI and whatever else in Phase Four. Granted that's a lot of assumptions.  

I think Wanda is stopped from questioning things a little too much by Agnes among other zany antics for this to be *Just* about her madness and grief after Vision. Every time she questions the very fragile world she's dragged back in. But she also can clearly manipulate certain events and might also be stopping herself from remembering. Something/one has either got to be using her grief for its own ends or out and out holding her captive by having her create a reality she desperately wants to be true. Like every genre show ever. How far one way or the other remains to be seen.

Katharine Hahn is of course awesome but it almost seems a little too obvious for her to be the main villain. Or is it just "obvious" to people who discuss TV/MCU to death and everyone else will be shocked that the wacky neighbour is evil? She definitely in the know somehow at least. And KH can switch from wacky to menacing in a heartbeat. 

We're doing this "for the Children" likewise. To save her twins? For Wanda to create them for herself or to find Vision or for the benefit of the Big Bad against her will? 

"The Devil's in the details" came across too fake-jolly intense for it to be a clue for Wanda to discover that she's locked *herself* in her own head of half remembered American sitcoms. 

[S01.E01: Filmed Before a Live Studio Audience]

26 minutes ago, bethy said:

I think these are great points. Plus if it had all dropped yesterday, I'd already have watched it all. 😬 This forces me to slow down and I'll get to enjoy it longer. 

Oh yes, if they'd given me the option I'd have watched it all at once (and six hours isn't much in one go in quarantine) And I'd now be the ep 8/9 threads going "wow, can't wait for the rest of P4" and then forgetting about it after a couple of days and coming to discuss it a few more times but not really building any deep rooted interest in it. I find binge watching like a candy bar, awesome but not long term satisfying. Which is great for trashy or action shows but with this I know I'd miss half of it and forget to do a complete rewatch. 

But something like this IMHO deserves savouring and is perfect for actual forum discussion and not just *^&%£!! reaction on twitter. 

Also kind of helps in a personal way that a lot of my shows recently ended or are on long breaks and/or breaking my heart so I'm shopping for a new one to get invested in and this weekly seems to fit the bill. 

[S01.E01: Filmed Before a Live Studio Audience]

7 minutes ago, TimothyQ said:

This is why I think they should’ve released the season as a whole. I think the slow rollout makes for a harder sell for casual Marvel viewers to stick with it. 

I think this is definitely a YMMV situation but I like the weekly roll out. I love discussing and speculating on a show week by week for one thing. But I also like the build up and feel it creates more of an impact than binging all in one day. 

I think Marvel have enough good will from enough people to get them to stick with it until ep 4 and a lot of people (like me) *are* loving what there is so far. If the worst comes to the worst there will be a lot of people bingeing it all at once in 8 weeks time once (I'm assuming) everyone's minds are blow away by the gamechangers of last few eps. And then they ride that hype straight into the more traditional political action/thriller/identity politics of TFATWS. 

[S01.E02: Don't Touch That Dial]

"For the Children" would seem to indicate that someone has nefarious? plans for the kids.

On watching it again I think that Wanda notices things are off too often for it to be something she's totally in control of. The wacky hijinks seem like a distraction from that as well as her wanted on some level for this happiness with Vision to be real. Agnes suddenly pops up a lot when she's questioning things but that might be a red herring. 

Then obviously we have Jimmy Woo who's trying to get through to her knowing/thinking she's a prisoner of her mind/the mind stone/the reality stone. Somehow. 

[S01.E02: Don't Touch That Dial]

6 hours ago, Ottis said:

If you raise funds from only the same people who are in your ladies club, I don’t get the point.

I think that was supposed to be part of the weirdness. Dottie said something like "this is the one and only fundraiser for the elementary school, they're counting on us! For the children!!" But it was a small talent show with a handful of people in the audience and NO kids or people actually from the school. It was as though it was "written" by someone who had heard of ladies who lunch and control the neighbourhood fundraising but never seen anything like it properly. And then whatever is going on with the "For the Children". 

 

5 hours ago, cmahorror said:

I don't trust Kathryn Hahn at all, she almost seems like a handler for a witness protection program, making sure Wanda stays lost in the show and doesn't want to leave.

I think "well, look it's the star of the show" was definitely supposed to be more than a double meta joke. ie Wanda is the star both in universe and of this show and something's up with her. 

Spoiler

And Teyonah Parris is supposed to be Monica Rambeau but it's unclear if she knows she's in Wanda's Vision/prison or not. 

"Anges" does seem to have a real world counter part but again unclear if she's aware or not. 

 

[S01.E02: Don't Touch That Dial]

Well they managed to make "for the children" creepy even before the magic pregnancy reveal. The Strucker watch was less weird than that repetition.

Loved "Geraldine" and she Wanda and Agnes being the naughty schoolgirls of the group, especially for the sin of wearing pants, TP looks fabulous in the 60s clothing. And the "how does a housewife do something? Herself" is an actual joke I'm pretty sure I've heard in a lot of older sitcoms. 

I'm still really enjoying the crazy Bewitched/IDOJ etc sitcom conceit even if we didn't have obvious "who's doing this to you Wanda?"

I suspect this is a way to have her really pregnant or at least real babies for the Young Avengers set up. Wanda does seem to have at least some control over the situations and how she wants her "life" to go. Is she using this as protection against someone/thing or just grief? Or the more obvious one is that they're keeping her occupied whilst something else is going on or want something from one of her "visions".  

I hope they baby(ies) did spring from her and Vision/"Vision" and weren't planted there by creepy beekeeper/SWORD. I think it could go either way but I would imagine that they'd want them to come from WandaVision (the couple) and not out and out forcing a "real" baby on her if they want to use them in other projects. Especially with Marvel touting how progressive they are/will be in the recent and upcoming slate. 

Paul Bettany really got the chance to shine in this one. I know he's talked a little about it in some interviews I've seen but it must be such a trip to start off doing voice work for a random AI butler so they don't rip off Alfred too much and end up kind of playing the same character in a sitcom but with a body. 

I knew that was Anya, didn't know beforehand that she was going to be in this. 

I don't know the comics apart from what I've read on various wikis and theories about this series and @tennisgurl is right I suspect there's a lot to unpack at each subsequent viewing. 

I'm so glad I'm enjoying this. I've wanted to see how it would turn out since they announced it but I was worried the sitcom would annoy me and/or get too trippy for the sake of it, but it's definitely firing on all cylinders for me so far. 

[S01.E01: Filmed Before a Live Studio Audience]

Just finished watching the first episode and I really enjoyed it. I wasn't sure if I was going to like an entire episode dedicated to the faux sitcom gag part of it but it really held my attention. 

Elizabeth Olsen especially just made this work. Paul Bettany was also good and I really like the chemistry between them. I loved that there were so many call outs to your average 60s sitcom plots and tone but that they also had a lot of weird and creepy undertones to them because we (and Wanda on some level) know that there is a lot more going on. 

This was not even close to the craziest sitcom plot Debra Jo Rupp and Fred Melamed have done taking it at face value. 

And yup pulling out to reveal the control room at the end was expected but can't wait for the rest of it!

I also really love how "WandaVision" has so many different possibilities as a title. Their ship portmanteau, is it all Wanda's Vision for a "happy" life, the people watching Wanda and Vision on television, the people controlling Wanda's vision as well as Vision. 

[Book vs. Series: On The Shelf]

15 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

'll be interested to see if they take more of a soap opera approach to the story-telling in Season 2, as opposed to a romance novel approach. By that, I mean that in romance novel series, while you will see couples that were in one book appear in another book, usually they are happy and their conflicts behind them. So Daphne and Simon appear in the other Bridgerton books, but at that point they are happy and we don't hear that they have any other issues. But in soaps, once the couple gets together, they'll still have issues and conflicts that impact their marriage.  I'm just wondering which direction they'll choose - I assume season 2 is going to focus on Anthony and Kate (I'm assuming they'll keep that basic story, and if not, I'd be disappointed) and I also assume we'll see Daphne and Simon but I'm just not sure if we'll see more of their marriage in depth.

They could possibly draw out some of the "Second Epilogue" stuff. I haven't reread them since watching the show but whilst they're short there's a bit there to expand. Although some of Daphne and Simon's can't be done until/if Penelope and Colin are married IIRC. They can't really do the three girls and waiting for a boy potential storylines and all the issues that brings up emotionally and practically because they've already had a boy. 

If I had to guess there might be some issues pre baby just to keep them in the story and not loose the actors to other high profile projects but not true Soap Opera as they already showed the HEA. E.g. If RJP wanted to leave I don't think they'd dramatically kill him off and launch a who will Daphne marry now?" arc that took up the rest of the show ala Downton. 

Kate and Anthony have IMHO the best book to draw from and lots of stuff happening in it emotionally and physically with a strong supporting cast as well as everything they set up for other characters this season. I don't think they need extra drama from D/S even though I also do wonder how they're going to keep the "romance novel" nature and structure of everything that they clearly wanted to *this* season long term as many potentially popular characters/actors just fade out of the story. 

They could also tease out bits that happened  BTS in future books again like Marina this season. The dates don't quite match up (1814 vs 1815) book wise but they could have Benedict meet Sophie at the ball assuming they're going with that couple and fit in into whatever exploration of his life or sexuality they may or may not continue with. 

If they keep the same storyline for Eloise and Phillip then it's going to be inherently more soapy than it was in the books, because of Marina and the twins being his brother's biologically speaking, especially we get a storyline about their marriage or even an update on how they're doing before that. But that's assuming they even get there following the 1 season per book format or whether they combine a couple and many other things. 

[E01.03: Art of the Swoon]

8 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Not being terribly familiar with the genre of romance novels, I ask: 
Is it generally acceptable to the readers of romance novels to make up rules for marriage between classes and between commoners and royalty for such a novel so long as those rules are adhered to within the novel just as, say, in scifi, it's okay to be able to travel FTL (faster than the speed of light) so long as the results are consistent (e.g., either time travel is involved or it's not)?

It really depends on the book. Some writers try to get things as "historically accurate" (as far as we can tell) as possible and if they introduce say a big class difference then explore it thoroughly. Others do explore it and use it for drama but don't let the real life rules and potential shunning afterwards affect the outcome. The same applies to sex. 

Others don't care and will have a duke falling in love with the maid and an off hand comment about how he doesn't care about what society thinks because he's rich and powerful. 

As @eleanorofaquitaine said royalty are generally not involved and especially not as the Hero/Heroine. Quinn does bring in a Russian Prince in the same role in a different series but whilst the arcane rules about Russian court life are mentioned the fact that she's an Earl's daughter and not a princess isn't a factor.

[E01.03: Art of the Swoon]

On 1/8/2021 at 2:03 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

The prince here though was a German prince.  If he was seriously considering marrying Daphne, then he was most likely a younger son.  He spent much of his youth and was educated in England which further supports this.  Those minor German princes were not that wealthy and needed the money Daphne could bring.  

Many German "noble/royal" families still insist on "equal marriages" for their children today, even though the ranks have been legally abolished. Because the House Rules haven't been updated in 100 years and dictate who can inherit everything. 

Queen Mary aka May of Teck a hundred years late was considered a poor relation by some because her father was the son of a morganatic marriage to a mere Countess, even though her mother was a British princess. A Viscount's daughter would be well below even a second son Princeling's station, especially the Queen's nephew or close cousin. Britain never had morganatic marriage though and if you were married that was that despite gossip. 

I think it definitely worked as a plot point for this non realistic show though and has been used in many romance novels. 

[Book vs. Series: On The Shelf]

On 1/5/2021 at 6:52 PM, Unraveled said:

I've been re-reading the books to compare to the series. I was up to Benedict's book when I binged the series. I should have read Colin's too.

I find the the biggest change in the characterization of Nigel Berbooke. In the book, he's a sweet, bumbling idiot. He's in love with Daphne because she's the only woman who's nice to him. In the series, he's basically a predatory rapist. He was willing to compromise Daphne to force a marriage. He knocked up one of his household's staff and sent her away. In the later books (I'm reading Colin's right now), he ends up marrying one of the two older Featheringtons (who aren't that brilliant either).

I think they needed a villain to give some extra drama to Daphne and Simon's story. Otherwise it's just two people who like each other and would work well together within the context of the early story but don't get together for reasons that can't be easily revealed until they're already married in Regency society. It goes along with the drama of Diamond to Outcast for Daphne whereas in the book she too was just a nice girl who was overlooked. 

I expect this *is* one change the show will make. In the books he was a fool but harmless and so perfect to get a named but also foolish but harmless throwaway character. But I don't want either of the other older Featherington girls to end up with him. 

4 hours ago, bijoux said:

 

 

This post in the cast thread first made me laugh. But then it also made me realize I have an easier time imagining Polly Walker's Portia saying that than talking about "bubbies" when she, Violet and Mary come upon Kate and Anthony. Frankly, it only makes me anticipate the scene more to see how they'll write it. 

It's going to be glorious. I just hope this Violet is able to rise to the occasion as well. Interestingly it's also a big clue that Penelope is LW because she comments in the column that Mrs F couldn't be drawn on the gossip and must have been threatened by Anthony. 

Speaking of, I also hope we see more of Edwina and Mr Bagwell rather than him just appearing later on ala Edwina mentioning it to Kate second hand. I kind of assume we will since that should be easy enough to flesh out and a no brainer for a secondary romance/meeting at the country house party. Especially if they also have library scenes. 

[A Discovery Of Witches - General Discussion]

So I've started watching S2 and I'm enjoying it but I can't really get into Matthew/Diana this season. I love the setting and the costumes are amazing but the interplay between them comes off as dull in a way it didn't last season, even if it didn't set the world on fire. I like both actors individually.  

Spoiler

I'd watch her with Goody Allsop all day though. I'm glad Aisling Loftus is pulling double duty as Mistress Norman. I'm on episode 4 and I'm much more interested in watching Marcus/Pheobe flirt, watch Ysabel, Sarah and Emily spar, Domenico fail to intimidate anyone and what it means for Sophie/Nate/Agatha when the baby is born than anything else. 

 

[Social Media and Behind the Scenes: AKA Everything Else Not "News and Media"]

In May Pedowitz was saying it was still a possibility but that was long after the start of the pandemic and the actors were out promoting the DVD etc. Shrug. Sucks for everyone to have people keep asking about it and not be able to just say it's not happening. I'm sure Kat will be fine from a work stand point.  

It may have been picked up if it wasn't for COVID but it doesn't seem to have been on their priority list before that either. Oh well. I'm not sad that it ends with Oliver (baring potential comics and guest appearances) and glad I don't have to wonder if they'd have Mia say she's closer to one of them than her mother now in an Auntie or something similar. That would be annoying.

It does grate my cheese that they had William forever kidnapped as a cliffhanger. And then didn't even sign BL. 

[The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow]

Not at all surprising. It's been dead for a while but at least it's confirmation. Interesting that apparently the 100 spin off is still in contention for pick up though. 

I would have watched but I can't say they hybrid nature really appealed to me and the fact that FTA weren't going to be regulars, or at least hadn't been contracted yet really soured me. 

[Book vs. Series: On The Shelf]

With Eloise's book I do like stories with a hero who isn't a rake or "fake rake" and I also like marriages of convenience that work out to love so it worked for me in those regards but it's not the strongest book in the series. 

I wouldn't mind if they changed it and had a happier ending for Marina and Philip (if they get that far) and a less conventional one for Eloise. 

It wouldn't be particularly unusual in family sagas that take place over a number of years to have some characters die and others to marry their widow or widowers. But it is a pretty shitty ending for Marina.

The only book I hope they keep completely intact is Anthony/Kate with Edwina and Mary. I didn't like Violet much in the series compared to her book counterpart so I hope Mary is still recognisably her fantastic mother/stepmother self. 

[They Had Condoms Back Then? The Questions and Answers Thread]

Bernadette Banner is also a good one if you want to fall down a historical fashion vlog hole.  A few Regency ones, including "how did they pee in that thing?!" 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSHtaUm-FjUps090S7crO4Q

[Book vs. Series: On The Shelf]

41 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Assuming they get that far and given what they've made canon for the tv version, I think they'd have to really re-think some elements of  Eloise's book for adaptation. Tv Eloise is very different from book Eloise.  In the book, Marina is a Bridgerton cousin and Eloise sends a letter of condolence to Sir Phillip after Marina's death which then starts a correspondence with him.  Also Eloise is really feeling her spinsterhood and is desperate to get married. 

None of that tracks with tv Eloise, so unless they make her a lot more conventional over the next seasons, then it would be really OOC for tv Eloise.  Als the lion's share of her book takes place at Sir Phillips' estate with her brothers showing up in various places.  It doesn't allow for the variety and fun of the London season and the entire family and other side stories, like this one.  Unless they decide to do a house party or something, which again, doesn't exist in the books and would be anathema to Sir Phillip because he just wants to germinate plants or some such.

I think they will have to do some rethinking somewhere along the line. As I've said before, pre watching I thought they would change a lot more things up with romantic pairings and in the early episodes as well. After watching it all I think the current/original plan is to keep the main book pairings intact. They used Marina instead of an original character but switched her over the the Featheringtons so she isn't potentially marrying her cousin's husband and introduced Philip as a good man.  And have a potential for witty, modern heroine/stick in the mud opposites thing. 

Eloise was definitely feeling a bit desperate but that's after 10 years on the marriage mart and especially after Penelope gets married. Before that she turned down eight proposals, albeit because she wanted true love not because she wanted something different from her life like this series and nor was Marina a person we knew.  Leaving aside potential treatment of a WOC by the narrative for the moment because I don't think the series really considered that in S1 for the relationship drama and that also might change things in later seasons but we don't know yet: that might mean they think we'll be sad that someone we knew has died and have more invested in the story or that they won't go there at all. If they want to follow Marina and her marriage for a season or two more then it maybe reduces the chances of Eloise/Philip happening as well although that has never stopped a Shonda show before.

Theoretically if they get that far they'll do a time jump and like all TV time jumps life hasn't turned out so great for Eloise (wherever she was left off) and now she's in a slump and writes her condolences to Philip because she remembers everything that went on with Marina. 

Maybe they could combine Francesca and Eloise? Or by that time they'll have a lot of other characters to follow in London? Most book characters who have their HEAs actually like to spend a lot of time at their country estates/cottages so there could be lots of visits and country house porn. 

If they don't even think they'll make it to book 5 and won't combine her book story with anyone else's before then they can pretty much do anything with her including being single or a queer romance or deliberately leaving it up in the air.

 

[Lady Whistledown: Friend or Foe]

22 minutes ago, ursula said:

I also think Penelope really just liked Marina and was happy for her. That she got to piss off her mom and sisters in the process was an added bonus.

What I find more interesting is what this shows about Penelope's feelings about Daphne. She could easily have talked up Marina without the digs and snide comments about Daphne. Did she share Eloise's resentment towards Daphne for being "perfect" and was secretly happy to see her knocked down a notch?

I agree LW's feelings about Daphne are a lot cloudier in the TV series. The writers set up this Diamond to fall from grace that simply wasn't there in the books where Daphne is just a nice, average girl and LW liked her and only made a couple of comments about "the horror"  for her mother if Daphne fails to secure a match on her 3rd season. They needed LW to help drive the upped stakes of the drama to stretch out the slim book for 8 hours. She could have been leaning into Eloise's resentment of her but it doesn't help Eloise if Daphne fails to marry someone or is married off to Berbrooke. Lady B isn't forcing Eloise out against her will so there's no need to keep Daphne unmarried to "protect" Eloise from her turn and if she's in a bad marriage that would make her sister even more unhappy. She started off the column being very complimentary though and whilst LW fanned the flames Marina was already taking the shine off her along with Anthony's meddling. 

I honestly think the writers probably weren't writing LW with what it means for Penelope in mind until the last episode, even though they knew they wanted to expose her as the dramatic gotcha. I think she was supposed to be sincere in her relationships with Marina, Eloise and everyone else. Just that that doesn't jive with her writing a often capricious gossip column. 

I might be wrong but I don't think it's going to turn out that she's been deliberately hurting or playing people, strange as that may seem from the ending. And I do think we're going to see her suffer consequences. 

[Lady Whistledown: Friend or Foe]

29 minutes ago, RachelKM said:

Yes.  Penelope is definitely hiding her motives and, at least in some ways, lying to everyone.  Some of her actions may be sincere as they are not incompatible what we do know.  But we will just have to wait to see what they do going forward now that they've outed Lady W.

An advantageous marriage could benefit Marina's relatives, if she chose to promote them (which is party of the implications of telling Lady F to consider it, that she intended to aid them).  

But merely commenting on Marina emergence as an incomparable, wouldn't have much to do with Penelope  or her sisters in and of itself.  And, since Penelope didn't even wish to be out that year, would have little advantage for her personally.

 

To be honest LW agreeing and promoting the idea that Marina was an incomparable and the diamond only really served to make the Featherington girls seem more ridiculous especially as she kept going after her mother. And it wasn't shown that the crowd of suitors turned around to look at any of them and abandoned the chase. Nor did she suggest that they should.

Whilst being connected to the Bridgertons might help if Marina pushed them forward in the books all the Bridgertons like Penelope, invite her to all their parties and hope she'll find a husband one day but it doesn't get her anywhere.

[Book vs. Series: On The Shelf]

2 hours ago, Artsda said:

It going to seem like rewarding her public outing of Marina and sending her to the point of making tea for abort the child if she gets Colin in the end.  She shouldn't get Colin. I don't want to see her mother get what she plotted for either, someone in her home married to a Bridgerton to pay off their debts.

This version of LW has contempt against her from the town, even Simon. I can't see anyone clapping for her outing either like what happens in the books. I don't want to see any Featherington+Marina win.

They've done a lot of damage to Colin too  with this Marina plot too that, they inserted this daytime soap who is the daddy type plot to make him look like a fool who is only spared through Penn's outting of Marina. 

The whole Marina plot never should have happened. They took Eloise's story and a small backstory and turned it into something that wasn't needed and just did more damage.

Penelope and Colin's story is potentially season 3 or 4, they have plenty of time to redeem Penelope, particularly if Marina is not seen again or if she is shown making a life with Philip (which sets out problems for a potential Eloise/Philip story but that's another tangent). 

They did write themselves into a corner by having LW be cureller in general and potentially ruining the life of a known character who was a protagonist and not someone like Cressida. They wanted to do a lot of things with 8 episodes AND have the dramatic reveal of LW in S1 and not S3/4, so a lot of things got messy, made no sense and were written for plot. Because there's no reason that Marina couldn't have had the exact same plot with a guy not named Bridgerton, even if she ended up with Philip doing the decent thing by his niece and nephew to get canon right. I don't think what she did was right but I don't think this show was ever going to let Colin/Marina get married and raise George's baby together with or without telling him. Girl succeeds in tricking (hot, young) guy into marrying her and trying to pretend it's his baby wouldn't go down well as a storyline for Marina either. 

Plenty of characters in night time or Netflix soaps have done terrible things to other people and got "rewarded" with the guy/girl at the end, look at Downton Abbey or any other Shondaland show where it happened with all sexes and races and people in different positions of power.  They might take feedback and course correct but she won't be evil or capricious when she's not LW. I do think she'll suffer the consequences of her actions in her family's place in society, the big Daddy's heir issue and other bits they bring in.  These are producers that left THAT scene in for Daphne/Simon and didn't take the opportunity to even explore it better and now they have a HEA almost exactly like the book. 

Even in the books whilst LW hadn't gone after anyone like that Colin yells that she'll be disgraced if anyone finds out. Because even tweaking the noses of society and pointing out idiocy and hypocrisy and never actually snooping at doors etc would make her unwelcome in many of those homes again.  

I do think they're going to go Penelope/Colin and possibly even Eloise/Philip if they get that far, especially if they time jump 10 years into the future. Whether they should or not is a different matter but at this point I believe that's what they're planning. There was no other need to make her Marina and her eventual husband Philip the second son otherwise. 

I didn't love Pen in the books or physically identify with her, though I get a lot of the wallflower stuff, (my favourites are Kate and Edwina) but I did like her and the and it was clear from early on she was going to be Colin's love interest. 

I do think the writers did all the involved characters a disservice from our POV by not considering the effects of race on the audience, they created a world where the Queen has made race a non issue in society to the point where it's not really a factor in any of the main romantic interactions and plots but that's not how viewers perceive it. 

1 hour ago, Brn2bwild said:

That's interesting, and I do wonder how typical that was in reality (and I realize these are romance books, where things can be idealized).  That lifestyle cost a huge amount of money to maintain, and there were eight children.  Even Queen Victoria's younger sons (in a family of nine) were pushed into careers in the army or navy.  Winston Churchill's father was a younger son of a duke and ran for public office.  It's surprising there isn't any pressure on the younger adult sons to set up their own households, independent of their oldest brother. 

I think that's just part of Quinn's Fantasy Regency. I don't think any of her series have younger sons going into the church or Army/Navy, even those that aren't as wealthy as the Bridgertons. Sebastian Grey finds another way and pretends to cadge breakfast with his cousins. 

 

[Seen on the Promenade: Cast in Other Roles]

They definitely do and both are known for playing scheming matriarchs. 

Adjoa Andoh has also been in a lot of British TV productions including Who as Martha's mother. I remember her in Casualty when I was a kid. 

Ben Miller has been in so many things either as the hapless nice guy or arsy civil servant. He also has a comedy act with Alexander Armstrong. Their airmen sketches used to have me in stitches. 

 

[They Had Condoms Back Then? The Questions and Answers Thread]

8 hours ago, bubble sparkly said:

Okay, so if creepy Nigel was able to nearly get away with blackmailing Daphne into marriage by threatening to tell people he was alone with her, and thus ruining her reputation and possibly the whole family based on heresay, does that mean than any man could do the same thing to get a woman he wanted? Or would only powerful nobility be able to do this?

Like, if a random merchant or footman etc. decided that marrying Eloise and claiming her dowry would advance his position in life, could he just threaten to do the same thing and try to force the Bridgertons to agree to marry her off to him?  Or would a "lesser" man not be believed by the general public so his threat would hold no weight?

Also, can women try to use this to their advantage to land a wealthy dude who would be compelled to do the right thing and marry them?  Like, given the Fs live in close proximity to the Bs, if Mrs F was able to scheme to get one of her girls alone with Anthony in a room or on the street etc., could she then pop out of a bush and demand he marry daughter X to save her honour (even if nothing happened)?  And when Pen found Colin in the empty corridor of his house to try and convince him to ditch Marina, would have this been grounds to ruin her since they were alone in a secluded place, and could she have tried the "marry me or I'll be ruined" thing?

It would have to be a credible threat, not just a footman who told his master that he's slept with his daughter. That would just get him fired or worse beaten up or quietly done away with even if it was true.  If true or believed by her father/brother/uncle the daughter would either be sent to the country in disgrace or hastily married off to someone who wouldn't ask questions too many about her virginity. 

As for the other way around. It really depends on what sort of family the girl came from. IF she came from a wealthy, connected or powerful family then yes a man might be "trapped" into marriage by a young woman or they could insist that he married her if they had slept together. So many romance novels start with the premise that two people accidentally find themselves alone and must get married to protect her honour and/or because the man is honourable enough to follow through. 

However most of the time he was under no obligation to marry the young woman even if he had slept with her, although there could be some societal/family pressure. He could easily claim he wasn't even her first or that it wasn't his problem that she was ruined, that her father/brothers/chaperone should have taken more care of her virtue and she clearly was a slut who wouldn't make anyone a good wife. He might have to also deal with being a cad and possibly disinherited by his family (Willoughby in S&S but he then marries an heiress)  if it got out but nowhere near what she and her family would deal with. See also Lydia and Wickham in P&P Lizzie was worried there would be nothing to tempt Wickham to do the right thing by Lydia and he would just abandon her until Darcy intervened. 

 

[And The Golden Arrow Goes To...: Awards, Nominations, and Recognition]

Thinking about some other finales and the ups and downs of Arrow it ended well compared to how they could have gone out, even if it wasn't the happy raising of the kids (maybe with occasional missions) that I would have chosen myself. 

As for changing ships, I never really did for Arrow. Disliked Lauriver from the get go wasn't a big fan of dead brother's wife. Merlance have great chemistry but rewatching really showed Laurel was using him as a place holder and was never really that into it. Was into Olicity from the start but didn't think it would turn romantic, I thought we'd get the Clark/Chloe route until late in 2A and even then wasn't sure it would stick. 

Interesting that person ships Delicity romantically. I never saw that personally. They have great chemistry but even in their early one-on- one's it never came off as romantic. Now I want to find an Earth where that happened just for the Woah. Carly was a good character except being Dig's sister in law so he could show Oliver how sibling swapping is done honourably and Dyla was awesome from the start. I could read an OTA OT3 crack though but I've never seen one. 

I'm actually surprised there wasn't more of Oliver/Dig and especially Oliver/Tommy (two white guy woobies style) but I never got that vibe from either of them.