[Roswell, New Mexico: In the Media]

Well Carina resigning because WB wanted her to be in complete sole charge of a plotline about racism and she didn't feel it was appropriate would be 100% at odds with what one of her writers claimed about her "fake wokeness", "racist bullying" and nixing of plots for Maria. Also against what THR claimed about her control freak nature of re writing scripts and against some of her own previous statements where she seemed perfectly comfortable being the person in charge of a hell of a lot of narratives (illegal aliens, Latinx culture, queer coming out, bisexuality, being a WOC and others)  that have nothing to do with her personally. And in fact took a lot of personal credit for them. 

I don't think they need to completely change *showrunners* in order to do a BLM arc on the show or at least shows that have showrunners who genuinely want to make the best story they can out of it don't, but they would definitely need to hire/promote and make sure they listen to black writers, producers and consultants and let them take the reins for those parts as well as the black actors involved. Allegedly the black writers they had left the show because of her which is a terrible start. 

As much as I have disliked CAM since her fangirl days I'm taking some of what KP said with just a touch of salt but I'm extremely  skeptical of this "very credible" source that paints Carina in an extremely principled light against racist, homophobic WB (and I'm not saying they have a good track record in this regard) and apparently didn't know about Watershed issues in the UK. 

[The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow]

It's an interesting article but it makes several other leaps as well. Whilst she might have been on better terms with Oliver and Sara in S2 there's no reason to think Oliver would welcome her into the Foundry anymore than he did before because they were on pretty good terms in "The Calm" with "you catch em I cook em! (lets get back together)" and she was on good terms with Sara right before she died. That's not the reason Oliver didn't want her being a vigilante.  And I can't see Tommy acting as a buffer between them. If anything he'd be more worried than Oliver about Laurel getting killed and possibly back to blaming Oliver for starting all this ala Quentin, not to mention dealing with his Dad being back and brainwashing Thea etc. And I don't think they'd have wanted to re do too much of Tommy/Laurel/Oliver non romantic drama even in this most melodramatic and angsty of seasons. 

[Glee - General Discussion]

43 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

Unhinged in many ways. I once saw a video on Youtube that claimed for sure that Leah and Diana Agron were lovers.

Based on what?

While eating lunch in-between takes, Leah asked Diana if she wanted a salad with her lunch.

I am not joking.

There were and probably still are dozens threads on the lesbian board L Chat that had hundreds of thousands of posts talking about "Achele" and how they were having a long term relationship with beards, cast all helping them, studio execs getting involved, people trying to contact relatives to find out, spy thriller level conspiracies, codes they used to tell their gay fans the truth, the reason they *weren't* ever hanging out together was to keep up the facade. It was funny at first but it was also unhinged. Then the backlash against it from other posters also got OTT and nasty as well. Fandom at its worst. Treating real people as if they too were characters in a soapy drama. 

[Roswell, New Mexico: In the Media]

I think you can be a fanboy/girl and still write a direct a show or movie - loads of sci fi and genre shows and movies are created by fangirls and boys. Some of them occasionally behave that way on twitter. I remember pre twitter and early twitter Shonda Rhimes, Betsy Beers and Krista Vernoff acting like that in some early blogs for Greys Anatomy over the leading men and the ships. And many admit they have preferences in shipping and characters (OUAT creators fanboying over Regina and showing it on screen), although most do it more professionally and acknowledge other fans - at least whilst the triangle is still in place. 

Carina just came across very obnoxiously and like she didn't know when to keep her mouth shut or use her showrunner contacts and find out the truth rather than crying and lashing out at ITV as if she was only still a fan reacting to a garbled report that someone had done something negative to her ship and she went on the OUTRAGE! ATTACK!! Like she was nothing to do with her own show, where someone else would have said something more diplomatic or nothing until they'd checked. 

Then there's the issue of making Maria very much a third wheel in the triangle, despite half hearted attempts to show otherwise and show her briefly as Alex's actual friend only to F that up. On the one hand it's theoretically progressive to have a triangle where they are no straight white people. OTOH at least one group desperate for representation is going to be disappointed and pitted against each other in nasty fandom ways (which she must have known). A more experienced showrunner could have handled that better or given Maria a different love interest right off the bat.  And racebending Maria only to not go with Michael/Maria but Malex, feels deliberate, like she was a diversity prop and nothing more. (We now also have accusations that she torpedoed Maria storylines in the writers room). And her obvious shipping of Malex combined with other behaviour just ends up feeling like the biggest cliché of a fangirl stereotype obsessed with two white boys kissing, even if she genuinely wants to be a straight ally in normalising queer relationships on TV. 

She did do her yelling about diversity and "authentic stories of NM" and bisexuality in quite a holier than thou way, which Kamran Pasha specifically called out, saying that she screams it loudly because she's nothing like that IRL and ignored Latinx writers trying to correct something she got wrong about their culture.

[Glee - General Discussion]

I was a worry wort when I was 4 so I would have been screaming, I used to panic if I lost her for a second in a shop but my sister at the same age was fine and happy to do her own thing until an adult forced her to pay attention so I guess it varies. And he also may have been in shock/not really understood what was happening. Or he could have fallen asleep exhausted from crying and screaming. If the police or his family have been able to get those details from him, they will presumably remain private. 

At least she managed to get him on to the boat and this isn't a double tragedy. I guess the autopsy might be able to tell them if she hit her head or something but I'm not sure if it could point to a muscle or stomach cramp. And yeah the only reason a reporter wanted to know the state of her body was to print the gory details so they could be properly ghoulish. No thanks, I'd rather remember her as she was. 

[Glee - General Discussion]

If it's not her then someone else tragically drowned recently but I as far as I know no one else has been reported or is still missing from previous years. Truly sad but at least her family can bury her/cremate her properly and maybe get some answers as to what actually happened. 

Oh and with it being CM's anniversary more "curse of Glee" clickbait stories. 

[Roswell, New Mexico: In the Media]

2 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

I think that is what she's trying, but it's not going to go over well with anyone who might be otherwise inclined to give her a job, because she is factually incorrect. They also edited Max and Cam's love scene as well as violent scenes. 

Oh I agree but some are conveniently leaving out that part or downplaying it and making her more of a martyr and not mentioning anything else THR accused her of. 

[Roswell, New Mexico: In the Media]

I I can't see what was screencapped but I remember her and Jared being all gleeful and spiteful about it because of RR's alleged behavior. Which would be karma,

With the ITV stuff, I really don't know why it's still up. Maybe she thinks it's "right in spirit" even if it's wrong in actual facts or some such nonsense? Or she doesn't like anyone cutting her show even if it's out of their hands due to laws about transmission times and sex/violence? And it's the hill she died on basically. It's so stupid as she should have updated and directed fans to where they could watch the uncut "love story" scenes and the "just fucking" scenes intercut to the music just so on the Hub, thereby getting more traffic for ITV and her show. 

Some sites are reporting she got fired for protesting about ITV cutting "a tame love scene" and making her sound like she stood up for her anti homophobia/biphobia/bigotry principles so its not all bad for her to leave them up. But probably won't help her land another job where she doesn't have a friend willing to give her another boost. 

RE Nathan there are some people alleging something messy went down between them on The Originals, though I don't know how true it is. But with that and the "harassing leading man" accusations from KP? Could be something to do with it, but again we have no real confirmation. 

I definitely feel like the Jeanine thing is deliberate especially after what was claimed in the THR article and specifically denied by Carina and JM didn't say anything. 

[Glee - General Discussion]

800 people calling the sheriff's office was actually making their job harder, not easier. Calling off the search overnight is standard for anyone because they were searching in/on the water which is difficult at the best of times and impossible to find anyone at night. S&R is dangerous in itself and divers were in more danger at night. The last thing anyone needed was another tragic accident. Like the Ventura Sheriff's office is pointing out over fears that volunteers will need to be rescued.

Bodies of previous victims at that lake who were white people have been found days later because it's so difficult looking at the articles about various deaths over the years.  If anything being a celebrity would have ensured they kept searching overnight if they took things like the worth of a specific person into account, which they don't. It was about being physically able to do the job. The sheriff posted a picture of them about to start their search at first light on Thursday, that was the soonest it was safe to do so and included over 100 people. They want to find her. Conspiracy theories make great outrage entertainment on the internet they don't actually help with practical recovery and S&R. I don't think there's any reason to suspect she was drunk of impaired either. 

As for those demanding her family and friends grieve a certain way, fuck you. You don't get to demand how people deal with this, especially her family and ex who are focusing on her son and have 101 things to think about. 

I still think she is in the lake, it's just taking time. If she had washed or swan to shore most likely they would have found her on Wednesday afternoon or Thursday or seen signs in the days since. As for a kidnapping via Jetski or whatever, it's extremely unlikely the kid wouldn't have seen or remembered something like that. And there's no ransom demand as far as we know or worse. Her son would probably also have been a target too if that was the case. In fact more likely than his mother to be grabbed, sickeningly. 

[Roswell, New Mexico: In the Media]

12 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

Yep. And she went ON about it, about how Michael and Alex were about love but Max and Cam were just ****ing. She literally went on an entire tirade based on completely false information. Incidentally, the same episode apparently cut some fairly mild forms of violence? And later episodes also cut more severe violence. All things Carina would have known if she'd spent thirty seconds verifying her facts instead of flipping out based on random Twitter postings. 

If she'd actually checked with someone from ITV or WB they could have explained what was going on. Watershed regulations have been cutting US imports that aired before 9pm for decades. There were episodes of Buffy and the OG Roswell that were hacked to pieces and they were (almost) all straight white people scenes. Then she could have posted something about the scene being important for the characters arc or whatever and encouraged fans to watch the uncut episodes on the ITV Hub/buy on Amazon/buy the DVD etc to get the full experience. Thus potentially making the show more money in a productive way instead of ranting like she's a fan playing the worst of fandom Chinese whispers that someone did something against her ship. She was the showrunner for goodness sake! Same with her "straight white fucking" comment, There are much more professional ways to get the same valid point across and not insult her actors filming those scenes and her potential/viewers who do enjoy that who might be put off watching her show. 

I can see how that would be the final straw. If just a fraction of what KP said is true then it has been coming on for a while. 

 

[Roswell, New Mexico: In the Media]

I put a link to a thorough run through of the drama in TWW thread in Other Dramas for anyone else interested. It does go to show that showrunners vs their own writers, the studio and fandom isn't something that happened with the advent of Twitter. Or is it just about shipping and fangirls. 

I haven't saved any of KP's tweets but it's probably for the best he locked his twitter down. It was clearly very personal for him and he was going for her viscerally on every possible angle saying "White women fake woke" the worst type of hypocrite by deliberately making her show about white boys and using POC to dance around them and say how amazing they are, saying she isn't actually a real Muslim just uses it for show as she has an Egyptian mother (even though "traditional Pakistani Islam" that he professes isn't the only way to practice/believe either), accusing her of deliberately driving out every single one of her minority writing staff with racist bullying, sexually harassing her actors, deliberately overriding Hispanic writers clarifying their culture, overriding writers trying to give Maria a storyline, making everyone live in fear of her both on set and in LA. Everything. If you were making up a vitriolic hit piece you couldn't get as much as this. 

Also a thought that along with accusing an international partner of homophobia/biphobia/bigotry and causing them to complain to WB, WB probably weren't thrilled that she "screamed" she was sick of straight white people fucking on TV at the same time, considering that's still the biggest market and she pissed them off publicly both ways. 

[The West Wing - General Discussion]

Just leaving this link here as I mentioned Aaron Sorkin Vs TWOP and the resulting "US Poet Laureate" episode B plot in another thread about showrunner meltdowns and how they affect fans and networks. 

 http://bitchkittie.blogspot.com/2006/02/long-back-story-of-aaron-sorkin-west.html

[Roswell, New Mexico: In the Media]

29 minutes ago, Avabelle said:

On another note, did Jeanine and Nathan date at the start of the show? Or were they just doing a lot of press together.

I have no idea if they dated for not, I have seen gossip that Carina and Nathan had a thing when he was on TO and that's where "messy problems with harassing the lead actor" are coming from but I have no idea how true that is. 

It's entirely possible that HH had a positive relationship and working experience with Carina. It's a pretty passionate statement for someone who is just being polite. It doesn't make Maria's storyline any less frustrating though.

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Congrats (I guess) on the change of show runner, although in these pandemic times, might that be the entire kiss of death to the show? 

I think it was on life support anyway and they'll see if changing things can revive it a bit or they'll kill it after S3. I guess they might decide to "unrenew" it but there's nothing to indicate that yet. 

[Roswell, New Mexico: In the Media]

4 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

Wow, I thought Carina was Marti Noxon Junior. Turns out she was even worse! I did think it was crazy that nobody at the WB seemed to be monitoring her Twitter.

I guess maybe they thought they didn't need to. Usually showrunners don't have screaming tantrums on twitter.* If they get in to fights with fans over something it doesn't matter as much, but hurling accusations publicly at ITV like a fan was a no-no. 

Wow, Kamran Pasha is going for broke. Calling her out on absolutely everything under the sun including using their religion as a "get out of jail free" card and not caring at all the rest of the time. Outright saying she was a racist bully and didn't care about actual diversity as long as she could brag about it. Basically saying she openly oggled her male leads and made comments that everyone would agree was inappropriate if the genders were reversed.

Re-writing scripts herself isn't entirely unusual but does show huge control freak issues and guarantees only her favourites are actually going to get a POV as she isn't subtle about that. It also erases people's efforts to write the authentically diverse experience she brags about if it's all coming from her pen. Unless she thinks she's more authentic than anyone else. *eye roll*. 

Quote

i genuinely think Carina thought hitching herself to tHe gay couple would make her untouchable. That way anyone disagreeing with her she could call out as homophobic/bigoted. Somewhere along the way though she seemed to get even more big headed and took it upon herself to be become the speaker of the LGBT community.

Apart from *all* the other issues that is such a fandom perspective "no one can say anything against my ship because if you do, you're homophobic!" Except instead of being a BNF in a ship war, she's the showrunner. 

*The most insane one to me will always be Aaron Sorkin getting in to a fight with one of his own writers on TWOP, being cautioned by a mod and writing an episode about it. All pre SM.

[Roswell, New Mexico: In the Media]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Not when the WB fired you, terminated your development deal and, put a hit piece out on you.  She's going to have to start at the bottom and beg for jobs.

This was before I saw that the WB had ended the deal and yep, more than likely provided the details about what a terrible showrunner she was. It had to be someone fairly high up, THR isn't just going to write something like that on a gossipy interns say so, especially as it's not a huge, important show. 

Very interesting that the writers room got much less diverse in S2. That puts a slightly different light on touting your show as an authentic, diverse, inclusive story reflecting real life. 

12 minutes ago, Regalbegal said:

To me, at least, her handling of the Micheal/Maria/Alex triangle somehow seemed to be problematic on all fronts and no matter which character one approached it from (sort of a feat), and her defensiveness about it in social media certainly didn't help.   I had pretty much written off the show this year, but the change has definitely increased my interest in S3. 

The triangle and how she handled it was a disaster from the start. An experienced showrunner would have found it difficult to juggle a lot of different moving parts: OG canon, WOC, bisexuality, interracial relationship, same sex relationship, "best friends" threesome etc. And nothing about how she handled it seemed like someone who had been particularly thoughtful about the personal, social implications or fan response.

[Roswell, New Mexico: In the Media]

Reading the THR Is interesting. I didn't see the tweets about ITV and the gay scenes. I don't think ITV and especially not ITV2 are homophobic, but it is on at 8pm which is pre watershed. I think the full scene was on the ITV Hub. She certainly acted more like an outraged fan than someone who has to keep in mind the money and contracts involved in international distribution and issues different channels have to work around. (E4 recently cut a tame sex joke from B99 TV broadcast but it's on the All4 hub). There are ways to express disappointment with editing without screaming and immediately crying homophobia. 

If HR had to look in to the matter of problems with actors then clearly something was going on and it wasn't a small thing. A showrunner spending time on set doesn't sound terrible but if there was a lot of last minute writing going on that has got to be frustrating for the rest of the writers. And if she played obvious favourites on set as she does on SM that's definitely an issue. 

I suppose her deal could simply not have been renewed if it was for 2 years in April 2018. But still not good. 

[Roswell, New Mexico: In the Media]

3 minutes ago, Avabelle said:

And a voided studio deal means they cut her completely doesn’t it? Because that’s pretty big I would think.. 

It seems like a pretty big deal because it means they (or *maybe* she depending on the details of her deal) have no interest in working together on other projects. Either they aren't interested in looking at her next ideas or offering her a project. Which considering she was a co-showrunner on a show that got renewed for S3 (proving people watch her material) is unusual. 

I've seen some gossip saying she didn't get on with Jeanine but I don't know how true that is. 

[Roswell, New Mexico: In the Media]

I'm not sorry. I haven't been a fan of hers since her Big Name Fan days and subsequent climb up to showrunner. I'm sure she'll get other chances, once you've had one show it's easier to get people to listen to your next pitch. Depending on what actually happened. 

I wonder if the creative differences over certain parts of the show (relationships, use of actors, planned character arcs etc) or wanting to explore various social and political issues. Although those can certainly be the same thing. But a lot of CW shows have done that. 

Or something completely different. Shrug.

[Glee - General Discussion]

The press conference Ventura County Sheriffs department held said that she had been a regular visitor to the lake and knew it quite well. Apparently she used it as a peaceful getaway. So if she had gone swimming with no problems before she might not have realised they were in a dangerous position or simply encountered different conditions or hit her head on the apparently large amount of debris floating underwater. Or slipped and banged her head in rough conditions without meaning to go in. Her son apparently had his life jacket on. Which I guess means it's more likely she deliberately took hers off for a quick dip.

It's a dammed, man made lake that drains and is interconnected with two others so they know the most likely places to look both recovery and search and rescue. But conditions also mean there are a lot of places where it's difficult to find people because of the weeds, mud and logs etc in the water. 

[Batwoman in the Media: Send the Bat Signal]

12 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Is it confirmed that “Ryan” is a completely new character?  Or are we still thinking it’s a stand-in for another comics character name, like “Tina” was?

They have hinted more on the completely new but I'm still thinking the latter because they swerved a fair bit of the backlash (though definitely not all) with the Tina=Dinah thing. And there was a lot of "you fired Ruby so you could shove your own OC in there!" going on. 

I do hope they change the backstory, even if she really is a completely new character, because that was every cliché there is. It already helps that they cast slightly older. 

[Glee - General Discussion]

From what I can tell it was originally reported as "young toddler found in boat, search underway for parents." and was attracting media attention as a tragic search.

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/toddler-found-alone-on-boat-in-lake-piru/2393146/

It was then confirmed to be Naya by officials when they called off the search later that night. I presume they had been in contact with her family/Ryan Dorsey at that point. Obviously the kid knows who he is and the company know who they rented the boat to so there were loads of rumours before then.

I guess it's like when you hear "a soldier has been killed" on the news but they don't release until the family has been notified and then it's in every publication, whether they want that info out there or not. 

[Glee - General Discussion]

They're continuing at first light. At this point they're 99.999999% looking for a body. Pretty much when they didn't immediately find her yesterday. This is terrible. I remind myself they could be looking for a 4 year old as well and that's something. 

[Glee - General Discussion]

It's usual for searches to be called off at night because it's almost impossible to find someone like that in the muddy darkness, especially if they're looking underwater, especially if they don't have specialists on hand. It also gets a lot more dangerous for the search and rescue teams. It's awful for those who love her and desperately want her to be rescued but it's not that they couldn't be bothered or didn't want/hope to find her alive or she's not a priority because she's Latina. 

It's incredibly tragic and it doesn't sound like a happy outcome is likely under the circumstances and they didn't find anything on the land around the lake. That poor boy. At least someone saw him and he's safe. 

I guess "The Curse of Glee" stories will be starting again. 

[Batwoman in the Media: Send the Bat Signal]

I saw her on "God Friended Me" she was good from what I saw, though I gave up on that show after a few episodes. I guess she also "understands Berlanti Productions set culture" or however that article a few weeks ago was worded - that they were looking for a WOC who they already worked with, presumably so they don't have some of the issues allegedly RR had. David Rappaport also basically confirmed that it would be someone Colton Haynes knew/of recently. 

I'm also happy they cast an openly LGBT actress again. She does seem excited. I really hope she doesn't get a huge amount of hate for playing a black lesbian lead and a controversial recast/new character. 

@Lantern7 I assume that eventually she'll get Batwoman's seat for crossover purposes. How she actually fits into Kate Kane's friends and family will be a different story. 

[Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread]

18 hours ago, statsgirl said:

It's also possible that he had been talking to the EPs and they were already thinking that Oliver/Laurel wasn't going to work out on the show and didn't want to make too much of it in case they did swerve away later.

That's the rumour but I've never known how seriously to take it. The EPs realizing two pretty people together won't work in this case during the pilot that is. It makes sense with the idea that when they saw EBR they immediately made her recurring and put her on the path to joining the mystery/team with the investigation from Walter.

 Saying "and Laurel isn't indifferent to Oliver" doesn't make sense in terms of pulling it back but it might in terms of "we've got a whole 5 year plan with these two, don't vent everything at him right now". 

Someone here had the idea that Laurel should maybe start the pilot attempting to be apathetic or even forgiving towards him, finally losing her shit at him in the party scene and then start to go from there in eps 2+ rather than flip flop several times in the first two episodes alone, and that seems like a better idea, showing two different sides to Laurel without the whiplash. Although there was still the whiplash with the Hood.

18 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Would they still have approved after Barry got his powers?  I doubt it.

Like Garcia on Criminal Minds. It is okay for the geeky girl to get a geeky guy, but not the hero.

I suspect if Barry had become Smallville's Ollie Queen to Oliver's Smallville Clark as it were, there would still have been a push to cast an Iris for him, like people kept asking when Sue Dibney was coming for Ralph, but it might not have been as bad as it got in some quarters because secondary hero.

But I suspect there would have been a push to give her a geek or a Billy not Barry. It's funny I know it wasn't a new revelation, but I've watched FitzSimmons a lot this break/lockdown trying to get into AoS again but they didn't strike me as "this is the mould people wanted/expected for Felicity" in the same way LA did.

 

ETA: Also I guess this is the thread to talk about it. The question of the producers being afraid of Olicity fans "bullying" or worried about the potential popularity of other/potential ships as a reason "Oliver doesn't interact with any other female apart from Felicity in S6/7" has come up in a few places over the last few months.

Firstly, half the women he did interact with in earlier seasons: Laurel, Helena, KcKenna, Felicity, Sara, Isobel, Shado, Tiana were hired as love interests or potential love interests (seriously there's a reason Summer Glau was hired and not a woman in her 40s/50s). Once he got married there was no reason to write in these characters anymore. 

Secondly they killed off or wrote off his mother and sister for one reason or another so that was out. There were also no flashbacks so no need for a flashback girlfriend/mother figure. 

In S6 he interacted with Felicity, Dinah, Thea, Nyssa, Raisa, Watson, Jean Loring, Alena. Pollard, Lyla and a few day players and crossovers. In S7 E2 Laurel, Dinah, Emiko, Talia, Pollard, Alena, Lyla and day players and crossovers. Not huge amounts but take out his family and potential love interests and it's not vastly different from early seasons on a very male dominated show. S3 Felicity, Sara, Laurel, Nyssa, Thea, Tatsu, Cupid, Lyla, Waller, China White, not very different at all. 

Maybe "Oliver doesn't talk to women apart from Felicity anymore" is code for "I'm annoyed he wasn't the one spearheading Black Siren's redemption and falling in love with her?" or "she should be growing emotionally close to Dinah even though they're just work colleagues who don't like each other much after S6?" Because he and Dinah had a lot of exposition together in S7.