slayer2

bkwurm You mean Amy right? 'Cuz Beth died :( The sister is interesting to me, it's consensual and frankly I know sisters who've done it. I don't think it's gross, I think he definitely has a connection, fixation with the Lance family and that doesn't bother me either. I kind of just enjoy this show, I don't get too bothered about consensual sex no matter who it's between and I don't have any real expectations about it or general desires for characters. It's very refreshing to watch this show because I like Ollie above all else and I enjoy watching stories about his life, it's that simple for me. There are characters that bug the life out of me sometimes but it's not so much that I can't enjoy the story. I like Ollie's relationship with both Lance sisters so I'm fine watching either one.

Oh god, daddypalooza, I didn't think of it that way and now I wish I hadn't. Fawk!

Thanks.

lol. That's what I was thinking. Sorry quarks I must have blacked the fuck out. I guess that proves your point somewhat. I guess I wasn't irritated because given the circumstances of what happened between Oliver and Sara I felt like Laurel was the only one {well Laurel and Det Lance} justified to throw shade at Ollie upon his initial return.

Has anyone read the comic recently with Canary and Zatanna? I just got it the other day and it's pretty cute, Green Arrow makes an appearance and there's a cameo by Superman too. Is this the right thread to talk comics?

But I'm assuming quarks that happened after episode 13? catrox was asking me my impression so far as a new viewer of the show so I'm just going by the first half of season 1 and I like what I see of her thus far. :)

I don't really agree about the writing not mattering. The beats are dictated by the writing and direction, the actor can hope to infuse something more for sure but at the end of the day if the writing has you doing some shitty thing like for example rape or murder there isn't a lot the actor can do to make the character come out looking good. Hell some movies have been destroyed by directors alone, Ryan Phillips says he filmed an entirely different movie in 54 than what appeared on the screen. A lot of things can be changed in the editing room. I think of course the actor must do the best they can but when you have shit writing you have shit writing, (The Tomorrow People is a wonderful example of this). ETA *example damn you autocorrect!

I think we're arguing two different things, like I said I don't know what happens after 1.13 kinda wanna keep it that way until I watch it so I'm simply stating my dislike for Thea up until that point. I don't know what happens after because I haven't watched it yet but I think we should agree to disagree because I don't want to know what her arc is yet if she has one. I'm simply stating that from what I've seen of her these 13 episodes I'm not a fan.

I can understand that, I was terribly frustrated with Tom Welling when he would proudly state he never read a Superman comic. As an actor having something that rich to mine can only help your performance. Research is so key to a defined role like this.It's been my experience that a lot of CW/WB writers tend to follow the actors lead when they write it was that way with Chloe on SV, clearly that way with EBR on this show, Pacey on Dawson's Creek. So it seems that (although it shouldn't be necessary with a seasoned writer) the actor needs to infuse the character with their core values irrespective of what's on screen to somehow lead the writers to a forgone conclusion. I can't speak for KC but if it were me and I wanted my show back from EBR, I would read every Black Canary comic I could get my hands on and hit the gym and the martial arts like I wanted to catch a felony. It's probably tricky as well because there are often different directors for every episode and each one has a different view of Laurel and if she has been written as inconsistently as everyone says it's easy yo see how she turned into a plot device like Lana Lang became. Honestly if I were KC I'd just hit the comics and the gym and if they still kept fucking up I'd ask to be let out of my contract because what they're doing to her character and her in terms of marginalisation and plot isolation comes off as pretty degrading IMO.

Yes! Another Oasis fan, is it any wonder? Ha! That'd be awesome if Felicity took on a role like Chloe's in SV. She kind of already is I guess but that official Oracle title I think would suit her to a T. I'm currently reading a BoP comic called Wolves and Felicity certainly has Oracle-esque similarities also if they did a spinoff I'd be soooo down with CL JDG and EBR together on a series. I'd buy ALL the DVDs!

You didn't violate any spoiler rules on here I'm just saying for me I skipped that part if the post because as I've said I've only seen up to episode 13 of season 1 and the back 6 of season 2. Wrt Thea, I don't see a person who is trying to learn from her mistakes, I see someone who is, as the French like to say "toujours enerve" about everything all the time. Her first reaction to everything thus far has been anger, then crying foul in the form of terrible things that I don't find appropriate to say to a family member. I understand anger, but telling your mother you wish she was dead is just awful to me even if it's just for shock value and driving under the influence is the same. I tend to give forgiveness when it's earned, I'm not cool with handing it out willy nilly when the person in question just repeats the same behaviour. This I feel is Thea's main problem, awful behaviour, no repercussions then the same awful behaviour again. There should be more to answer to when you tell your Mother to drop dead then to simply have your Mum say "I'm lucky to have you." IMO Thea needs an island, she needs to be treated as an adult and held accountable for her choices and I don't believe that coming close to jail is accountable. I'd like to see some remorse from her, genuine remorse and empathy for other people. I've seen it in other characters but I've yet to see it in her. As I said I'm only on episode 13 so I hope that changes.

Thanks wonderwall (my favourite band BTW) he sounds like he's had a shitty life. Any chance of Felicity eventually becoming Oracle if he is her father? It seems like a natural progression.

Thanks for the Fyers info. Isn't Dr.Fate the helmet guy that Chloe put on in Smallville?

But what does this have to do with Laurel? We're discussing Thea, just because Laurel did it doesn't mean Thea should be excused. To me at the end of the day there's no excuse for that kind of behaviour, I guess it would be something to say she walked away penniless if she weren't one of the main reasons she was penniless to begin with. Everyone makes excuses for poor Thea when the truth is IMO she's a brat who needs discipline. In the real world this wouldn't be even close to acceptable behaviour. People jumped down Bieber's throat for his DUI and his father was the one encouraging him to do it, one could say he had the same rootless upbringing, devoid of guidance. Why is it bad for him but not for Thea. Can't we call a spade a spade? Getting in the car when you're under the influence is an asshole move that you can't pin on anybody but yourself irrespective of upbringing, class, race, gender, age, shitty parents or any other circumstances.

It's just too coincidental I mean the guy's name is Fyers and it's not spelt Fires and her name is Smoak but not spelt Smoke, then that line just says to me yes, the guy who was complicit in Oliver's torture is her dad. I guess we shall see soon enough, it's just too weird to me.

Sure! I started season 1 with no real expectations about anyone except maybe Tommy (whom I knew people liked) and just hoping the island flashbacks wouldn't bug the shit out of me. When I first saw Laurel she was (and rightfully so) bitching out Oliver for screwing and essentially killing her sister. Hers (and Detective Lance) was the only rage towards him that I felt was justified so I appreciated that about her right away. Then she apologized for wishing he was dead which I felt was big of her considering. Then I saw her work against the criminals of the city which she did fearlessly, I'm not confident that I wouldn't simply back down in her situation when threatened as she was or simply live in constant fear. Then you add her consternation and dedication to others after what happened with Oliver and Sara and I like her even more, throw in her caring for her father with an inordinate amount of patience of which I don't have with my Dad and a lot for me to respect. Once they started getting into the Tommy stuff and how sweet and affectionate she is with him and her kindness towards Thea when she'd been nothing but awful to her and top it off by having her work in tandem with the Arrow to help her friend and any other downtrodden in Starling City and by then I had nothing but affection for her. Her best quality thus far has been her heart and it's huge.

Sure! I started season 1 with no real expectations about anyone except maybe Tommy (whom I knew people liked) and just hoping the island flashbacks wouldn't bug the shit out of me. When I first saw Laurel she was (and rightfully so) bitching out Oliver for screwing and essentially killing her sister. Hers (and Detective Lance) was the only rage towards him that I felt was justified so I appreciated that about her right away. Then she apologized for wishing he was dead which I felt was big of her considering. Then I saw her work against the criminals of the city which she did fearlessly, I'm not confident that I wouldn't simply back down in her situation when threatened as she was or simply live in constant fear. Then you add her consternation and dedication to others after what happened with Oliver and Sara and I like her even more, throw in her caring for her father with an inordinate amount of patience of which I don't have with my Dad and a lot for me to respect. Once they started getting into the Tommy stuff and how sweet and affectionate she is with him and her kindness towards Thea when she'd been nothing but awful to her and top it off by having her work in tandem with the Arrow to help her friend and any other downtrodden in Starling City and by then I had nothing but affection for her. Her best quality thus far has been her heart and it's huge.

I don't understand this either. Why not aggressively work to fix her or write her off for a season? In that time she could pick up the skills and experiences she needs to fall into line with canon. Send KC off to train and read the comics and bring her back at the end of season 3 or start of season 4. It worked for Spike on Buffy.

I had to stop reading your post because you're kinda spoiling me (I'm only on episode 13) ;) From what I've seen, it's doesn't excuse her behaviour. Losing people you love doesn't give you the right to endanger others and be an overall asshole. Thea's tired refrain of losing her father is wearing thin, it's time for her to grow up and realize she's not the only person in the world and no one owes her anything, people have it worse everyday.

Ahhh spoiled ha! I just ask because of two things...Where there's Smoak there's Fyers and they both said exactly the same thing about archery: "Seems utterly ridiculous to me" that's far too exacting to be a simple coincidence on both ends wouldn't you say?

This is it exactly and then she's never held accountable and sails away feeling justified and vindicated as if it's all okay because they lied to her and it's not as if she holds them innocent until proven guilty. She crucified her mother over the Malcolm Merlyn affair she was convinced they were having when meeting up about something entirely different and wouldn't listen to reason for Moira or Oliver. She risked the lives of people around her by getting super high and driving around Starling City like some kind of asshole, then when everybody was doing their level best to ensure she didn't go to prison or juvy (where she belonged for such an offense) she basically told everyone to go screw themselves. Finally when Laurel goes out of her way to cut a deal for her she shows up and gets right to complaining about having to file things and earn her keep in the office. Honestly, anyone I know who had done something so damn stupid would simply be grateful for all the help, that so many people cared about them to pull them out of the clutches of jail that they wouldn't dream of complaining about it. Thea needs a Slade Wilson or a Yao Fe (?) badly. Oliver complained for half a second before shit got real and that's just what this chic needs, the solipsism is mind-blowing, MIND-BLOWING. Even Dawn and Blair Waldorf had their moments, I am stunned. Never have I seen a character, surrounded by so many things meant to build character, written like such a narcissist, with no redeemable qualities. I've yet to see one moment that shows me a truly likeable person. Unlike her brother whom was supposed to be a brat but stood up under torture and still went back to try and save his (barely new) friend. Where are these qualities in Thea? Where is the rootable character? Even Moira whom one might call an out and out villain has inspired concern and empathy from me, why should Thea be any different? Perhaps the same writer(s) who sabotaged Laurel is the one writing for Thea. *shaking my head.

I noted that Joanna disappeared as well when watching the last few episodes of season 2. As a particular fan of Annie Ilonzeh I was actually looking out for her. I agree it's a a shame to remove her from the show as did give a very clear view of what was going on in Laurel's head and allowed the character to be human and show empathy like when her brother died and Laurel went after the killer and went to the station to pick up her things. I'm really sorry to soon view season 2 where they ruin this character because she's quite charming to me now. I like the idea of the Arrow having a lawyer's ear who works in tandem with him. If they veered aggressively away from this in the second half of season 1 (which you all seem to be saying they did) then sabotage makes the most sense and I can't understand why. If they hate the actor or character so much why not simply release her from her contract? They didn't on Smallville, it's not impossible.

I don't think her rep is so bad (although I think it should be) people seem to like her but I don't. I just know if she were raised in a Caribbean household she wouldn't make it past her 18th birthday saying things like "Gee Mom, wish you were dead." There's selfish to me and then there's cruelly selfish, she says the most horrible shit to people she purports to care about and she apologizes down the road "Oh sorry, I was a bitch." but then says something even worse the next time. I said a lot of things to my mother as a teenager but I never told her or anyone that I wished they were dead. She is truly awful.

Guys? Is Edward Fires Felicity's dad?

I'm at episode 12 of season 1 now and I can see what KC means about the heart of the show right now. I'm loving how everyone fits in to this season right now (except Thea) but Laurel especially has been warm, charming and able to admit when she's at fault, a viable romantic lead and I like her chemistry with the Arrow/the Hood too. Though I find her chemistry with the Arrow different than her chemistry with Oliver, kind of like Lois' chemistry with Superman was different than with Clark. I also like seeing things from the legal perspective and I love how big her heart is. She was a million times nicer to Thea than I'd ever be even when Thea was treating her like shit for helping her.