Wayward Son

IMO the "and" shouldn't even be a factor for Jensen. What I mean is that IMO the billing should be Starring Jared Padalecki and Jensen Ackles (a joint first billing that indicates their equal role on the show. The "and" credit is still secondary to a first billing) Mark Pellegrino (assuming he is still a regular next year) And Misha Collins (again assuming he Is still a regular) The fact that Jensen has been happy to allow Jared to maintain the first billing for twelve years suggests that billing placement isn't something that Jensen is overly concerned with. So I could easily him allowing it if Misha expressed that he wanted the billing and was even willing to take an episode / pay cut in order to gain it. Of course as @catrox14 said, and I too have speculated in the past, perhaps it was a one season courtesy to Misha before they write him out of the show (at worst) or reduce him back to a guest star for season thirteen. Either way I really don't see it as being a potential source of amnosity between Jensen and Misha. However, perhaps it was something that annoyed Mark since he's a far better known actor than Misha outside the SPN verse. But what if Misha wanted it and it was management who gave him the choice "you can have the billing but in exchange you will have to take a episode / pay cut". Perhaps Misha decided that having a "and" credit in his resume was worth more in the long term than the salary for two episodes. Yes Misha, Mark S and Mark P are only credited for the episodes they actually appear in. That's why I was saying IMO if they appeared in all episodes, or at least were credited for them, it would be easy to say Misha has the superior billing. However, I personally find it hard to truly consider Misha's billing as better than Jensen's when he receives NO billing for more than half the episodes..

Me too :( . Although this is sadly far from the case with fandom, there are simply too many hateful individuals for it to be true, I've always loved the idea that the whole #spnfamily thing was a reality for the current and former cast. It would be sad to think this was no longer the case. Perhaps, in the eyes of the show, the fact that Misha doesn't appear in half the episodes (and thus doesn't get any billing for those episodes) is enough to balance out any superiority over Jensen's billing it would have given Misha under normal circumstances. IMO even if the "and" credit is normally the better credit it's hard to consider Misha having a better billing than Jensen when he doesn't get any credit for half the episode so. Alternatively, presumably with Jensen's blessing, he offered to take a pay cut in exchange for the "and" credit. That could explain why Misha was only in 11 episodes this year compared to the 13 he appeared in for seasons 11 and 12. IMO something like this is most likely! Cutting his episode order would have been strange move if the credit was supposed to be a message that Misha's role on the show was being elevated somehow.

If Mark unfollowing Misha is an indication that whatever happened involved a dispute between Markand Misha I wonder if it could have been over the "and" credit Misha was upgraded to this year. Perhaps Mark felt put out by the fact Misha received the better credit when he is the bigger star outside of the show? Although if this is the case IMO within the show itself the "and" credit quite rightly went to Misha. He has been in more seasons than Mark ( 9 to Mark's 8), more episodes (101 (Including a directors role) to Mark's 69) and he has been a regular for more season (six - four consecutive ones to Mark's 3).

++ In My Time of Dying ++ Houses of the Holy -- What Is and What Should Never Be 57 - In My Time of Dying 35 - Hollywood Babylon 31 – Nightshifter 27 - Houses of the Holy 23 - The Usual Suspects 19- Crossroad Blues 19 - What Is and What Should Never Be 17 - Croatoan 17 - Tall Tales 17 - All Hell Breaks Loose Part 1 17 - All Hell Breaks Loose Part 2 15 - Everybody Loves a Clown 15 - Folsom Prison Blues 13 - Born Under a Bad Sign 13 - Heart 09 - Simon Said 07 - Bloodlust 05 - Hunted 01 - Playthings Ganked in Cold Oak Hunger Games 22. Roadkill 21. Children Shouldn't Play with Dead Things 20. No Exit

It is usually released as a part of the SDCC panel :)

I think the main problem is the fact that the writers like to come up with plot driven reasons for secondary characters such as Cas and Mary being absent for a prolonged period of time. I assume they do this to heighten tension, to increase the angst and to make viewers invested in their later return. However, the problem with this approach is that the boys then look pretty heartless when they go off on a random MOTW while their friend or mum is in peril. IMO what the writers need to do is allow Cas and Mary to establish their own base of operations away from the boys. They need somewhere they can go to when the story doesn't require their presence. The reason IMO the inclusion of characters like Bobby, Jo and Ellen worked so well was the fact they had homes to go to. We didn't have to constantly worry about them during their offscreen time as we could assume they were simply at home doing their own thing during the brother only MOTWs.

++ In My Time of Dying ++ Houses of the Holy -- What Is and What Should Never Be 57 - In My Time of Dying 35 - Hollywood Babylon 29 – Nightshifter 27 - Houses of the Holy 23 - The Usual Suspects 21 - What Is and What Should Never Be 17 - Croatoan 17 - Crossroad Blues 17 - Tall Tales 17 - All Hell Breaks Loose Part 1 17 - All Hell Breaks Loose Part 2 15 - Everybody Loves a Clown 13 - Born Under a Bad Sign 13 - Heart 15 - Folsom Prison Blues 11 - Simon Said 07 - Bloodlust 05 - Hunted 03 - Playthings Ganked in Cold Oak Hunger Games 22. Roadkill 21. Children Shouldn't Play with Dead Things 20. No Exit

Yeah I would have to agree that shoving it in at the start of the episode isn't the greatest writing tool! It makes Sam look almost callous in his lack of concern for Mary and Cas half the time and Dean's affections quite shallow. Since the conversation basically amounts to Dean: "Im worried about Cas or mum man" Sam: "Yeah me too, but ooh there's a boogeyman case in texas" Dean: "I dunno man shouldn't we really be looking for them!" Sam: "But it's a boogeyman Dean! Come on we deserve a break it'll be fun!" Dean: -grinnng- Yeah, you're right we can worry about them later! Let's go hunt ourselves a boogeyman.

I personally would assume she just meant once she signed the contract to appear on that episode she couldn't go back on it, even if she did want Eileen to live. I'm not sure what it could mean beyond that! Since, as far as I am aware, the prime difference between a recurring guest like her and a regular like Misha or Mark Pellegrino is the fact they have a long term contract and she doesn't. In her case it's purely on an episode by episode basis. So she had the power to just say no next time they phone asking her to appear LOL

I'm not sure if we should take that scene as any indication! They also had Mark Pellegrino doing some ridiculous stunts then, and he is quite favoured by the show runners if his recent promotion and general prevalence this year is anything to go by!

IBelieveinthelittletreehopper (the same user who made the season 12 spoiler sheet) has started compiling season 13 related information. According to her this is what we know so far I don't think there is anything on there we haven't discussed already, but it might be easier for anyone not wanting to back read multiple pages of posts.

He just looks so happy here <333 And as a bonus

++ In My Time of Dying ++ Houses of the Holy -- What Is and What Should Never Be 57 - In My Time of Dying 31 - Hollywood Babylon 29 – Nightshifter 27 - Houses of the Holy 23 - The Usual Suspects 21 - What Is and What Should Never Be 17 - Croatoan 17 - Crossroad Blues 17 - Tall Tales 17 - All Hell Breaks Loose Part 1 17 - All Hell Breaks Loose Part 2 15 - Everybody Loves a Clown 15 - Born Under a Bad Sign 13 - Heart 17 - Folsom Prison Blues 11 - Simon Said 09- Bloodlust 05 - Hunted 05- Playthings Ganked in Cold Oak Hunger Games 22. Roadkill 21. Children Shouldn't Play with Dead Things 20. No Exit

http://ibelieveinthelittletreetopper.tumblr.com/image/161142133733 And this is an example of why I positively adore Misha Collins <3

I think people are misunderstanding me, or perhaps I'm misunderstanding others in which case I apologise. It has been announced by Mark himself, Jim Michaels and several news sites that Mark Sheppard will not be returning to the series as a regular next year. Since that news has already been broke I don't see how a tweet from them that basically says "it's been nice working with you! Good luck with future projects" could be seen as breaking a non-disclosure agreement. They are only responding to news that has already been broken by Mark and a high up figure on the show (Jim Michaels). I should be clear I'm talking about a simple tweet that's along the lines of "you've been great to work with and I'll miss you". I'm not talking about them making tweets that dish the dirt on what exactly happened behind the scenes, or that somehow expresses the opinion the show runners were wrong to axe him, if he has indeed been axed.

Indeed. I am most disappointed by the radio silence from Jensen, Jared and Misha about the whole thing. I can to an extent see Misha keeping his mouth shut due to a desire to stay on the right side of management. He is only a series regular like Mark and could just as easily be fired. However, what are management going to do if Jared or Jensen chose to write a simple "thanks mark for all the years working with us! Best of luck in future" type tweet? Fire them? As if! The show needs J2 to survive and a fear of management isn't a proper excuse for their arguably rude behaviour IMO.

It does and we often have to wait longer as the Blu Rays are typically released in October here. I've actually started to purchase the season pass lately! I've done this for seasons 11-12, which makes checking show facts while out and about easier haha. It really really does -sighs dramatically-

I'm so envious of all you Americans! We don't have Supernatural on the UK Netflix! I do have all the seasons on Blu Ray, but changing disks can be such a pain haha

http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/supergirl/news/a829351/supergirl-losing-a-major-full-time-character/ I dont watch Supergirl, BUT from what I can tell this is how you treat the change of status for a main character. Not the utter silence poor Mark Sheppard has received.

I would imagine the individual threads for specific episode discussion and the 'All Episodes Talk' for discussion on the overall plots and character development of the season :)

++ In My Time of Dying ++ Houses of the Holy -- What Is and What Should Never Be 55 - In My Time of Dying 31 - Hollywood Babylon 29 – Nightshifter 25 - Houses of the Holy 23 - What Is and What Should Never Be 23 - The Usual Suspects 17 - Croatoan 17 - Crossroad Blues 17 - Tall Tales 17 - All Hell Breaks Loose Part 1 17 - All Hell Breaks Loose Part 2 15 - Everybody Loves a Clown 15 - Born Under a Bad Sign 13 - Heart 17 - Folsom Prison Blues 11 - Simon Said 09- Bloodlust 05 - Hunted 05- Playthings Ganked in Cold Oak Hunger Games 22. Roadkill 21. Children Shouldn't Play with Dead Things 20. No Exit

Final episode ratings were Name of Show - Viewers - Rating The Flash - 3.04 - 1.1 Supergirl - 2.12 - 0.6 Arrow - 1.72 - 0.6 Supernatural - 1.70 - 0.6 (back to back episodes average) Legends of Tomorrow - 1.52 - 0.6 The Vampire Diaries - 1.15 - 0.5 Riverdale - 0.96 - 0.4 Jane the Virgin - 0.96 - 0.3 The 100 - 0.91 - 0.3 Frequency - 0.79 - 0.3 Crazy Ex Girlfriend - 0.58 - 0.2 Overall season averages were Name of Show - Viewers - Unrounded Average (Rounded Average) The Flash - 2.84 - 1.06 (1.1) Supergirl - 2.36 - 0.72 (0.7) Legends of Tomorrow - 1.81 - 0.64 (0.6) Arrow - 1.76 - 0.63 (0.6) Supernatural - 1.68 - 0.60 (0.6) Riverdale - 1.04 - 0.38 (0.4) The Vampire Diaries - 0.99 - 0.38 (0.4) Jane the Virgin - 0.96 - 0.34 (0.3) The 100 - 0.95 - 0.34 (0.3) The Originals - 0.94 - 0.31 (0.3) (Not finished airing) Izombie - 0.91 - 0.31 (0.3) (Not finished airing) Frequency - 0.93 - 0.28 (0.3) No Tomorrow - 0.80 - 0.28 (0.3) Reign - 0.69 - 0.20 (0.2) (Not finished airing) Crazy Ex Girlfriend - 0.56 - 0.2 (0.2)

Going to reply in ratings thread :)

I reckon John would have loathed it along with their friendship with Garth considering his rather black and white view of monsters.

Thank you for that link <3. Until the season starts and proves me wrong, or an announcement does, I am going to go with the theory the show demoted both Mark and Misha but offered them recurring roles. Misha accepted the demotion like he did back in season seven, while Mark refused and parted ways completely.